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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
15. Most Aquaducts were and are ground level
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:55 PM
Sep 2013

The oldest Roman Aqueduct is actually underground and still in use. Using ground and water flow is sufficient to determine drop. You do NOT need to do any math is such a simple system. Enlarging the system only require a deeper ditch and more water from the source.

Now you do need to know extensive math and calculations when building the stone structures most people think of when you think of Aqueducts. I even mentioned that. and then pointed out most such structures were uniform height and the water flow adjusted at the top.

Plumb bobs

When these routes were surveyed, all they had was basically a stick of a set height and a plumb bob. The Plumb bob could be attached to a line and when the other side of the line caused the plumb bob to be at a notch in the center of the base, the line was level. Very simple, very ancient, very accurate.

Now a modern water level is more accurate, for a modern level has its water encased in a sealed tube with one air bubble. When the air bubble inside is between the two marks on the bubble. Very accurate, but only really needed is you want to build over hundreds of miles with curves. The Aqueducts tended to avoid curves (They had them, but it was avoided if it could be done).

A plumb bob is still used, through it is considered more fashionable to used more modern methods (i.e. Modern levels tend to be more accurate, but in most construction other errors exceed the greater accuracy of modern equipment over Plumb bobs). A plumb bob is a simple device, it is generally attached to a flat top (to attach to a line) and triangle bottom. A weight attached to the middle of the top by a short string. When the string meet the mark at the bottom of the device, you knew you were level. Very simple, very effective and accurate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plumb_bob

Here is a drawing on the evolution of the Dioptra, the one further to the left is a Plumb Bob, the other two are Dioptra, used mostly in construction. No Records of them in Rome, but were known to the Greeks. This may be simply the result that they had become so common, no one wanted to waste parchment (Which was expensive) on writing about them. An alternative answer was the Romans did not think it was that much of an improvement over the Plumb bob, something the builders of the great Cathentials during the Middle Ages would have agreed with.



Variation of the Plumb Bob was used through out history, the Ancient Greeks used the Dioptra:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dioptra

Another Greek variation of the Plumb Bob, The Groma:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groma_surveying

More on Roman Engineering:

http://www.surveyhistory.org/ferris_state_university1.htm

In many ways, the key to Roman Engineering was getting the people together to do the work NOT in the calculations.

On the other hand, with a line and a plumb bob you could survey a flat route with ease, and whenever you wanted a drop, drop the line. If you wanted a drop off 1 inch every 100 feet, every 100 feet you move the line down one inch. When the actual construction was done, the workers using water would make the final adjustment.

Lead pipes

As to fountains within the City of Rome. That is based on the concept that water will find its own level. Thus if the water flowing into Rome is at a higher attitude then any fountain or other water source in Rome (or any other city) AND the flowing into a system that is sealed (i.e. enclosed pipes NOT open water ways, the Aqueducts were mostly open water ways, except when it was decided to use pipes). Thus you do not have to known how low or high the pipe is, just that it is below the intake to the water system as a whole. Modern plumbing follows the same rule.

Pipes, made of lead, were extensive in Rome itself AND on various Aqueducts when it was determined the best way to transport the water was down one mountainside, along the valley in a sealed pipe made of lead, then up another Mountain. In such situations all you had to do was make sure the pipe was SEALED and the end closer to Rome was lower then the end further from Rome (at one time this extensive use of lead was blamed for Rome going "Mad" and leading to its decline, but the water in that part of Italy is extremely "Hard" and as such pick up little lead as it flows through the Roman Pipes).

http://penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/wine/leadpoisoning.html

Thus, you do not need extensive calculations (There is some questions if the Roman could do such calculations, Roman roads were known to go in straight line ONLY, for that is easy to calculate. Any turns were 90 degrees even in hilly Italy. The Aqueducts structures we know of also tend to be straight lines EXCEPT when it comes to the parts on the ground (Which indicates the Romans used flow of water method for the ground based part of the Aqueducts, for flow of water could be adjusted for curves).

Thus my point, you do not need much calculations to make an Aqueduct. By its nature an Aqueduct is a simple device to carry water.

Shhh I believe Laochtine Sep 2013 #1
Finally an answer! Small Accumulates Sep 2013 #2
Bwahahahahaha! progressoid Sep 2013 #3
Awe-inspiring! One's spirit soars. n/t Judi Lynn Sep 2013 #4
Brilliant, I literally laughed out loud! You won this thread, SA! Surya Gayatri Sep 2013 #9
Granite? 46 miles from Wales? Coyotl Sep 2013 #12
The Stonehenge site was active for a long time, starting with timbers. hunter Sep 2013 #44
Interpretations are just that, not facts. Coyotl Sep 2013 #47
I hope you're not mistaking me for some kind of new-age interloper... hunter Sep 2013 #48
Knowing the shortest and longest days of the year, can be a powerful tool happyslug Sep 2013 #5
Isn't it amazing that what has been termed in the past as "stone age" cavemen Hestia Sep 2013 #6
Basic engineering is quite simple, also Longitude needs constant time to be effective. happyslug Sep 2013 #7
Engineering an aqueduct may look easy on paper, but without using modern Hestia Sep 2013 #14
Most Aquaducts were and are ground level happyslug Sep 2013 #15
Göbekli Tepe Coyotl Sep 2013 #13
have you seen "the mystery of chaco canyon"? an amazing documentary on this strange question niyad Sep 2013 #16
Venus is important because her path was tracked? aquart Sep 2013 #19
Looking at the stars was popular before the days of TV happyslug Sep 2013 #25
We've lost our way Cartoonist Sep 2013 #8
"The Dark Ages" was to eliminate intellectuals and impose a feudal system based on religion.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #11
The Dark Ages was a move to strengthen the lower classes and take power from the 1% happyslug Sep 2013 #17
You failed to mention the Church held authority as to who was considered to be "royalty".... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #18
Sure, because nobody with royal blood had ever been executed before. aquart Sep 2013 #21
During the Renaissance such executions were rare happyslug Sep 2013 #26
People were told the richer the king, the better off the kingdom.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #30
Again a Renaissance concept, we are talking about the Dark Ages. happyslug Sep 2013 #32
No, that "rich king being better for you" idea goes WAY back. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #34
Yes, you see it is the Ancient World, Ancient Eygpt, Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece etc happyslug Sep 2013 #35
Actually, you are claiming the Dark Ages was only "dark" for the 1%.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #38
If you read the history, the Church was NOT that independent at that time period happyslug Sep 2013 #39
"the Pope had to be loyal to the the Franks" Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #40
What the POPE said and what the POPE wanted are and were TWO different things happyslug Sep 2013 #41
The Romans originally were after England's tin for bronze production.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #43
I do not see an anti-intellectual attitude in that time period happyslug Sep 2013 #45
While Europe under Christianity went through the Dark Ages, the Muslim World did NOT... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #46
Egypt were purged by the Romans happyslug Sep 2013 #49
Actually, the final blow to Egypt was when the "mad monks of Nitria" tore Hyapatia to pieces.... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #50
I see you problem, you are of the Ronald Reagan School of History happyslug Sep 2013 #51
"you get your history from movies." Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #52
I am sorry, movies are a bad source of history happyslug Sep 2013 #53
"I am sorry," Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #54
Sure they had, just not after a trial. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #27
Actually that is NOT a Dark Age concept, That is a Renaissance and Reformation Concept happyslug Sep 2013 #22
By "elected kings" don't you mean "warrior kings"? If you fought for the church you recieved title. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #29
The Church was quick to recognize someone rights to land, when he had troops all over it. happyslug Sep 2013 #31
Let's not forget tax collection and "tribute". Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #33
Actually, that skit misses a problem happyslug Sep 2013 #36
1. Use grammar check or a good friend before you post long pieces. aquart Sep 2013 #20
No one likes the Dark Ages, they try to skip from Rome to the Crusades. happyslug Sep 2013 #23
People ignore it because there is so little believable history from it. Records just sucked. aquart Sep 2013 #24
I have tried to understand Feudalism, something that has been under attack for at least 600 years happyslug Sep 2013 #28
What's your view of feudalism? hunter Sep 2013 #37
That is one of the reason you often have to read between the lines happyslug Sep 2013 #42
I only wish to point out a failing in popular English: a jigsaw IS NOT a jigsaw puzzle HereSince1628 Sep 2013 #10
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