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Religion

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darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
Sat Feb 11, 2012, 11:25 PM Feb 2012

The best defense is to claim offense. [View all]

Evelyn Beatrice Hall once summed up Voltaire's views on discourse thusly:
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

These words have been used time and again in public debate in order to succinctly express the view of the speaker that the First Amendment protects the free speech of all citizens, no matter how offensive or unpopular that speech might be.

The attitude behind this phrase is one of the larger reasons I became a liberal. Now I find myself asking "where has this attitude gone?"

You see, when someone alerts on a post, one of the reasons they can provide as an argument for hiding the post is that it is (to sum up "hurtful, rude, insensitive" from the alert box) offensive. Should a majority of the jury agree that the post is offensive, the post is hidden, and consequences are handed down to the offending poster.

The problem I have with this is that unpopular/minority opinions are always offensive to someone, and they stand a good chance of being offensive to a majority of jury members. So for those members of the majority who feel uncomfortable when greeted with minority views, the best defense is to claim offense.

And now to confirm the suspicions of some readers, and to make a point as to why I posted this here, let me say this: There is no discussion topic more likely to fall victim to this phenomenon on a liberal board than that of religion. For my entire life, spanning from my fundamentalist Christian years to the atheism of now, my very existence has been offensive to some. Liberal Christians thought I was ruining their religion when I was younger, and they think I'm trying to undermine and eliminate it now.

The jury system isn't going anywhere, and we all know it. That means that on DU3, it will always be possible for the majority to defend themselves against minority views by claiming offense. (It also means that things which offend minorities stand a much higher chance of standing, but that's beside my larger point.) This is unfortunate, to say the least, but we as a group can do better.

Those who venture into the Religion forum must know that the very discussion of such a topic will be volatile. We all need to keep Ms. Hall's words in mind, and maybe some of us should grow some skin.

Or, we could just admit that when it comes to our pet topics we are just as reactionary and in favor of censorship as the people on the right whom we deride.

53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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This is one of the best posts I've read in a long time EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2012 #1
"relegated to their own water fountains" darkstar3 Feb 2012 #2
Thanks for an excellent post. mr blur Feb 2012 #3
I like the tama Feb 2012 #4
Another technique is to hide obnoxious behavior under the mantle of minority oppression. rug Feb 2012 #5
Or to try to attach the tag "obnoxious behavior" skepticscott Feb 2012 #6
It's self-evident. rug Feb 2012 #7
There is much less tama Feb 2012 #8
Sorry, but baloney skepticscott Feb 2012 #9
More of the same tama Feb 2012 #14
Well stated tama, and absolutely true. nt humblebum Feb 2012 #11
. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #13
And some are only able to respond with obvious sarcasm, off the wall comedy, or humblebum Feb 2012 #18
. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #25
Well, you're the one fond of the alert button, mr blur Feb 2012 #47
Very seldom do I use the alert button and as far as an "honest" response humblebum Feb 2012 #49
Your post is a good illustration of the OP's point EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2012 #12
Granted tama Feb 2012 #15
"Why is that?" Because one side has a history of consistent abusive tactics and language Leontius Feb 2012 #16
It WASN'T abusive EvolveOrConvolve Feb 2012 #17
Questioning someone's beliefs tama Feb 2012 #19
Question my beliefs, no problem there anytime you want to go ahead. Leontius Feb 2012 #20
You are talking out of both sides of your face. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #27
A question tama Feb 2012 #44
ONE side? You obviously can't see the log in your own eye, darkstar3 Feb 2012 #21
No I admit I have violated my own principle before and have seen believers attacks Leontius Feb 2012 #26
When you say "anti religious bigots" darkstar3 Feb 2012 #28
I realize when I say anti-religious bigots that's exactly what I mean, bigots, so play your game Leontius Feb 2012 #30
Oh, if only that were true. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #32
Go right ahead and if I think you're right I'll say so and they can delete my post Leontius Feb 2012 #36
Thank you. You've provided a perfect example of my point. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #22
Only if you confuse the obnoxious with the offensive. rug Feb 2012 #48
Either way, you're recategorizing that which you dislike as socially out of bounds, darkstar3 Feb 2012 #50
Uh, no. Obnoxious assholes are an objectively observable phenemenon. rug Feb 2012 #51
Irony? darkstar3 Feb 2012 #52
Observation. rug Feb 2012 #53
Spot on! cleanhippie Feb 2012 #10
Interesting darkstar3 Feb 2012 #23
I would have to say that alerting on your OP is an abuse of the jury system Leontius Feb 2012 #24
Agreed tama Feb 2012 #29
False. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #31
No doubt tama Feb 2012 #41
Bet you never saw post #31 coming did you? Leontius Feb 2012 #33
Based on your responses here, there are a lot of things you never saw. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #34
Are you questioning tama Feb 2012 #43
Not really, I think you knew it was coming. I'm just surprised it took 12 minutes Leontius Feb 2012 #45
"Poster insults atheists" - with the average DU jury that would be a non-starter. nt mr blur Feb 2012 #46
Sorry to get off topic, but I am really interested in your personal journey from ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #35
Another time, perhaps. darkstar3 Feb 2012 #37
Very fair. ZombieHorde Feb 2012 #38
I'm not sure that atheists are in the minority on this site. cbayer Feb 2012 #39
I think a distinction needs to be made between this group and DU at large. laconicsax Feb 2012 #40
I know as a mod we were pretty agressive about moving threads to Religion, cbayer Feb 2012 #42
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