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Starry Messenger

(32,342 posts)
6. Allies don't patronize and attack the people they claim to support.
Fri Sep 11, 2015, 01:59 AM
Sep 2015

Activists who wish to decrease oppression should avoid replicating the system of oppression created by the white male cis straight 1%.

http://tempest.fluidartist.com/sometimes-allies-are-bad-actors/



Even the most hardcore social justice warrior (or paladin, cleric, rogue…) can fail to be a good ally to someone from a different group or identity at some point. What matters, what always matters, is how you deal with your fail. Did you apologize? Did you sit with yourself and examine what happened and why? Did you think about what being a good ally really means? Did you recommit yourself to being a better ally in the future?

Or did you double down with the idea that you’re an ally, not one of those bigots out there, and you marched with King, and you supported some feminists in 1973, and you’ve done all this work, and therefore you didn’t do anything wrong, you find nothing objectionable in what you did (or failed to do), and so the problem must be with the people you’re allied to, and not with yourself. In other words: did you center yourself?

The kind of people who say Stop Attacking Your Allies are the kind who tie their allyship to specific behaviors from the group they’re supposedly interested in helping. They, the ally, want to dictate the terms of the relationship and want to be the one to say “Now it’s the time to address this thing,” instead of allowing the marginalized and oppressed folks to make that determination. The ally wants to set the rules for what is appropriate discourse, to determine the parameters for politeness, and the conditions under which they will use or set aside their privilege. Do I need to explain the problems with that?[2]

Are we really “driving away” our allies, or are we making it clear that we won’t accept an ally relationship that is about the needs and comfort of the allies above everyone else? Yes, we might be making that clear with harsh language. And yes, in making that clear we might hurt some feelings. That happens when allies don’t listen to the polite, patient words that come before the yelling.

Exactly. But why should they give up on a playbook that's always worked for them? villager Sep 2015 #1
You're absolutely right. Because racism has only ever been perpetrated on people of color Number23 Sep 2015 #2
Where did I say or imply such an inane idea? mhatrw Sep 2015 #3
And like I said, because only rich white people have ever perpetuated or BENEFITED from racism Number23 Sep 2015 #7
So you disagree that they have benefited the most historically mhatrw Sep 2015 #8
I literally could not disagree more with your premise. Hard to believe you are having so much troubl Number23 Sep 2015 #9
My premise is that power brokers throughout history have mhatrw Sep 2015 #10
Stepping in this here JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #11
If I might step in and respond.... yardwork Sep 2015 #14
Put yourself in my shoes - let me bring you up to speed JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #17
I'm not a member of the Bernie Sanders group. yardwork Sep 2015 #19
Start with the first two links JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #21
Thank you! I checked out the links and they confirm that your group is being targeted. yardwork Sep 2015 #23
You totally totally get it JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #24
Lol Yardwork GitRDun Sep 2015 #52
We actually have three white hosts! Number23 Sep 2015 #58
There it is! JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #60
Thank you Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #48
That's not what the OP is saying. yardwork Sep 2015 #15
Something to consider JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #18
Very good point. yardwork Sep 2015 #22
heheh...All these years and I thought you were a guy - well, HOWDY, yard. blm Sep 2015 #28
Howdy! I guess it's my handle. yardwork Sep 2015 #30
((oldbuddy)) blm Sep 2015 #31
. yardwork Sep 2015 #33
I'm really not interested in this line of thinking particularly as it doesn't seem to encompass much Number23 Sep 2015 #43
so how do attacks on 1 percenter black people like the tennis guy work into all of this ? JI7 Sep 2015 #4
Racism is encouraged by those in power because it keeps natural political allies mhatrw Sep 2015 #5
However bigotry and prejudice JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #20
And i would say that is more likely than people JI7 Sep 2015 #37
It shows why economic justice won't solve the problem. The tennis guy pnwmom Sep 2015 #71
Allies don't patronize and attack the people they claim to support. Starry Messenger Sep 2015 #6
Yes, that is what is happening here. yardwork Sep 2015 #12
Sometimes people are just racist gollygee Sep 2015 #13
people are racist because their culture teaches them to be so. yardwork Sep 2015 #16
If you'd actually spent any time here, or in dozens of threads aimed at POC here- you'd know this bettyellen Sep 2015 #25
A year ago when a rightwing prick on another board told me they were going to be able randys1 Sep 2015 #29
The people helping to take down a Democrat are naive, stupid, yardwork Sep 2015 #32
I agree with the RWers using DU to try and split the party. No one I know in RL is stupid enough to bettyellen Sep 2015 #35
Thank you, bettyellen. Number23 Sep 2015 #44
If you're going to try to teach people something 1) do your homework 2) don't cut and paste crap bettyellen Sep 2015 #45
Yep! blm Sep 2015 #26
True. GoneFishin Sep 2015 #27
It's not 1%'ers that are alert stalking African American posters on DU. stevenleser Sep 2015 #34
Yes, I am new here. I did not mean to give you a whitesplain lecture. mhatrw Sep 2015 #36
but people don't agree. look at kim davis. her bigotry isn't due to JI7 Sep 2015 #38
Sadly, people in general don't agree. But lots of people around here do. mhatrw Sep 2015 #39
Some people actually do care about social issues more than economic JI7 Sep 2015 #40
Teaparty votes against their own literal survival SO they can vote for someone randys1 Sep 2015 #41
Right. Many bigots care about their bigotry more than economic issues. mhatrw Sep 2015 #42
which is why it is on people like you and me to support BLM and our brothers and sisters - bettyellen Sep 2015 #46
Again, I am new here. mhatrw Sep 2015 #47
think twice before you get behind any conspiracy theories. there is a lot of paranoia on the net, bettyellen Sep 2015 #51
I think you mischaracterize the fundamental disagreement. mhatrw Sep 2015 #56
LOL Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #49
OK. I guess you know my motivations better than I do. mhatrw Sep 2015 #50
Politically active black people Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #53
Because it was the first thing that came to my stupid naive white mind mhatrw Sep 2015 #54
Ok, let me say "om" three times, first... Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #55
I get it now. And I stand with bravenak. mhatrw Sep 2015 #57
Yes, it is NOT that POC are not strongly for economic justice Chitown Kev Sep 2015 #59
And Medicare and Medicaid are also administered differently according to race. mhatrw Sep 2015 #61
even if it IS a 1%er Divide and Conquer tactic JustAnotherGen Sep 2015 #62
I have disowned the OP several times now. mhatrw Sep 2015 #64
Perhaps you should spend some time reading a bunch of threads here yourself? The expectation that bettyellen Sep 2015 #66
OK, I get that educating people is tiresome. mhatrw Sep 2015 #67
So start a thread asking questions! Would't that be a reasonable alternative to doing research? bettyellen Sep 2015 #68
I've been reading and taking your advice. mhatrw Sep 2015 #69
That is awesome! I think it is important to realize how complex the issues are- and it truly is bettyellen Sep 2015 #70
Will this be on the final exam? betsuni Sep 2015 #63
point taken mhatrw Sep 2015 #65
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