The oldest 1% trick in the book

[mhatrw]

is to Trump up hatred and rancor among those below them who might otherwise become fast friends and natural allies.

[villager]

1. Exactly. But why should they give up on a playbook that's always worked for them?

[Number23]

2. You're absolutely right. Because racism has only ever been perpetrated on people of color

by RICH white people.

[mhatrw]

3. Where did I say or imply such an inane idea?

Middle class white people are often quite racist and typically at least somewhat racist. And racism is particularly bad among poor white people, at least among those I grew up with.

But such racism serves the interests of and is thus stoked by those who wish to plunder our society with impunity.

Pitting one group of the same economic class against another group of the same economic class is the oldest trick in the top 0.1%'s book. It predates the Roman Empire.

That's all I was saying. I assume you agree with this modest, circumscribed statement?

[Number23]

7. And like I said, because only rich white people have ever perpetuated or BENEFITED from racism

[mhatrw]

8. So you disagree that they have benefited the most historically

and that they still have the most to benefit from continued racism, privilege imbalances, and divisiveness?

[Number23]

9. I literally could not disagree more with your premise. Hard to believe you are having so much troubl

grasping that.

[mhatrw]

10. My premise is that power brokers throughout history have

purposefully pitted people against each other by entitling some over others based on racial and religious differences.

Could you explain how or why you disagree with this premise?

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Stepping in this here

You've been at DU since 2006.

Since January 2014 - you never posted in this Group.

Now all of a sudden - yesterday you thought we were important. Why is that? Why now - do you want to engage?

Both Number23 and I are group hosts.

Why in this Group - why now? I'd like to know.

See - the two of us - we understand prejudice and bigotry in America.

I even bumped up 1strong's DWB experience from Sept 4, 2014 a few days ago.


See - that's how America works.

ETA - For your consideration:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=8394

That's how the 99% inflict pain on those who have more than them. The cop had a choice - no one held a gun to his head and told him to do that. Neither of the Koch brothers were there that day. We've had a civil rights movement - the onus is now on the majority race in the 99% to get their collective shit together and stand up straight and fly right.

[yardwork]

14. If I might step in and respond....

I also have rarely posted in this group until recently. I was brought here by jury summons. Obvious alert stalking. And the letters to Bravenak are being discussed all over DU now.

I don't understand why the OP is so controversial. The concept of parallel violence among oppressed groups has been understood for a long time. People with power seek to hold onto that power by getting everybody else to fight each other.

[JustAnotherGen]

17. Put yourself in my shoes - let me bring you up to speed

Me, Number23's, kwassa's, starry's etc. etc.

In the past two months we've had three Group Hosts Alert Stalked into
'submission': 1strong, Bravenak and Blue Tires.


Please Read Prior To Posting - Notification From Group Hosts - Approach To Blocking Members
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118722358

^^ Uh - the Group has been around even at DU2. How shameful that I had to post that. We aren't 'new' - in every sense of the word. BlueTires elected to host the group at the beginning of DU3^^


Group Host - Please read re SOP And Alerting hosts
http://www.democraticunderground.com/118725212


Finally - I direct you to this thread in a Group of which both YOU and the OP are a member of in good standing - although I think one of their hosts asked the op of this thread to delete their thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128049010

Things I disagree with -

a few HRC supporters manipulated a few AA group members into thinking that most, if not all, Bernie supporters were racist - no we are NOT easily manipulated. That's just plain silly. It's also extremely tone deaf to the THREAD of hatred in America since late 2007/early 2008 that black folks have had shoved down our throat. What happened in those years? Think back. If you step outside of your comfort zone - it will suprise you what is really going on in black America. We aren't the docile little idiots the majority would like to believe we are. We are more Shug Avery than we are Prissy. That's the fact of it (two characters in literature).

This -
amount of the worst behavior is being perpetrated by ratf***ers, not by real Bernie supporters - You are free to believe that - doesn't make it true. But it's a free country!

This -

think I was targeted as a BS supporter today. I was banned without
a warning from the AA group. I was called an asshole. I posted my despair in GD and it was immediately alerted and jury voted 4-3 to hide.

- You know - I even TOLD the poster that I wasn't even following the rule in the first thread that I created. It's like - some folks think that it's just peachy keen in the AfAm group and we don't get intruders, alert stalking, SOP Stalking . . .

I don't owe that poster anything! Didn't then - didn't now. Just one of the FOUR User Names blocked since Wednesday evening . . . look at my first link in response to you. Do you see how UNDER ATTACK this group has been the past month and half or so?????

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=25255

All of his/her posts are there to see. Zero empathy chip, zero understanding and a total lack of caring that bravenak is a cherished member of this group!

What was I SUPPOSED to do? Let the members tear into that person? No way no how. Wasn't going to get every single member of this group put on time out.

Finally- 1strong black mans post from a year ago . . . You never knew we existed until a few days ago I guess -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1187&pid=8394
To Quote Him:

1StrongBlackMan (23,183 posts)

122. Actually, and sadly, that no longer bothers me much anymore ...
It bothers me far more when liberals tell me that economic justice will cure this.

^^^^ Lather rinse repeat. ^^^^^^ A bit down - you'll see me in agreement with him. If I have to choose the 99%, the rich, or the 'others' - I'm picking the 'others'. And that includes far more than black Americans.

[yardwork]

19. I'm not a member of the Bernie Sanders group.

I think I'm a member of the HRC group, but I can't remember. I rarely read or post in GD-Politics. I've been in complete disagreement with the way that people on DU are treating one another during this primary, and I did post an OP in GD-P in which I suggested that we support all Democrats.

I got in a fight with a very popular Bernie supporter recently.

I have no idea about the threads you are linking. Again, I never read in the Sanders group.

I had no idea that the AA group was being targeted until recently, and I'm here because I'm appalled. I realize that my presence might be unwelcome, since I'm white, and if so just ask me to leave and I will. I respect that this is a safe haven group.

[JustAnotherGen]

21. Start with the first two links

I posted - one is tacked at the top of this group. It will give insight.


Second - I stand corrected - it's someone else in the other link (third).

And your race is not a consideration here. My mother is white as is my husband -

It's approach and LIFE experience. They may have more experience and insight on this than another white person.

As well - two of our hosts are white!

[yardwork]

23. Thank you! I checked out the links and they confirm that your group is being targeted.

I agree. That's what brought me here, in fact. Jury summons on bogus alerts. I said so too, when I voted to Leave it Alone.

I've also seen the lame whining from white posters whose feelings are hurt because of threads discussing the existence of racism. We all hear it in real life, too. Defensiveness.

As hosts, you have an obligation to boot disrupters. I'm the co-host of a safe haven group and we do the same.

I appreciate your kind response! My partner is a person of color. We are a gay interracial couple.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. You totally totally get it

I'm sure . . . . on many levels.

[GitRDun]

52. Lol Yardwork

My guess is your getting a good feel for DU at this point.

The AA group is home to me too.. real people with real problems just like me....no bullshit...

[Number23]

58. We actually have three white hosts!

Kwassa, Starry Messenger and gollygee are all of the paler persuasion.

In years gone by, nofurylike who was also white and a member of the LGBT family has also been a host of AA. It's like I have been saying forever, we have some of EVERYBODY up in here and all are welcome. Except haters and/or imbeciles.

[JustAnotherGen]

60. There it is!

I forgot about gollygee! * hides head in paper bag*

[Chitown Kev]

48. Thank you

soooooooooo sick and tired of these nice white progressives wanting to school us negroes about racial prejudice.

[yardwork]

15. That's not what the OP is saying.

The 1% have a strong interest in keeping everybody else divided.

Rural whites, for instance, have a lot more in common with rural blacks than they have with Donald Trump, so why would rural whites ever vote Republican?

It's completely against the interest of poor whites to vote Republican, yet they do so in droves. One of the main tactics to get rural whites to vote against Democrats is to stir up racist fears. This keeps Republicans in power.

If the 99% bonded together we would be in power. Simple. We really would have democratic socialism. That would cost Dick Cheney a lot of money.

[JustAnotherGen]

18. Something to consider

I know it's been posted before -

I think poor rural white Americans are extremely disconnected from the middle class, affluent, rich, and wealthy white Americans.

In black America - one family runs the gamut - and we sit down to dinner at holidays and our family reunions.

We also (as necessity) have to help each other in the shadows and in the corners. It's how we survived the 100 years before the Civil Rights and VRA were implemented.

[yardwork]

22. Very good point.

I'm a middle aged white woman who worries about an increase in overt racism - with violent ideation - among rural whites.

People are being stirred up into a frenzy of hatred. They're all armed to the teeth, and they believe really crazy things. I mean, crazy things.

The only way to fight this is to get together. I stand with the African American group here even if you are mad at me. If you don't want me to post here, just ask and I'll go away.

But I won't stop fighting racism in the real world. There is nothing anybody can say to me on a message board that will change my belief that fighting racism is essential.

[blm]

28. heheh...All these years and I thought you were a guy - well, HOWDY, yard.

; )

[yardwork]

30. Howdy! I guess it's my handle.

It seems to make people think of a guy on a riding mower.

I like to garden and I picked my DU name one day after I had been doing yard work. It's kind of a play on "grassroots."

[blm]

31. ((oldbuddy))

; )

[yardwork]

33. .

[Number23]

43. I'm really not interested in this line of thinking particularly as it doesn't seem to encompass much

of it.

Instead of questioning why I disagree with this premise, if you took a second and expanded on your "poor whites vote against their own interests and have for years" angle you'd probably begin to understand why this line of thinking is woefully ignorant of this country's history.

[JI7]

4. so how do attacks on 1 percenter black people like the tennis guy work into all of this ?

[mhatrw]

5. Racism is encouraged by those in power because it keeps natural political allies

fighting among one another rather than banding together for common causes. Would you agree or disagree with that statement?

That does not imply that the poor people are not racist nor that rich people cannot be victims of racism. Of course, many poor people are racist. Of course, many rich people are victims of racism. That does not absolve the top 0.1% of fomenting racial divisions. Have you seen Trump stump lately? Do you remember Reagan's "welfare queens"? Willie Horton? Repukes accusing the Obamas of "racism"?

[JustAnotherGen]

20. However bigotry and prejudice

Have been handed down from generation to generation.

[JI7]

37. And i would say that is more likely than people

like kim davis george zimmerman etc being victims of 1percent .

Also why is this conspiracy of 1percent always brought up to black people and others who are discriminated against. Why not bring it up to those who are being the bigots .

[pnwmom]

71. It shows why economic justice won't solve the problem. The tennis guy

had money and success and yet he was still treated like any black guy could be treated any day anywhere.

[Starry Messenger]

6. Allies don't patronize and attack the people they claim to support.

Activists who wish to decrease oppression should avoid replicating the system of oppression created by the white male cis straight 1%.

http://tempest.fluidartist.com/sometimes-allies-are-bad-actors/

Even the most hardcore social justice warrior (or paladin, cleric, rogue…) can fail to be a good ally to someone from a different group or identity at some point. What matters, what always matters, is how you deal with your fail. Did you apologize? Did you sit with yourself and examine what happened and why? Did you think about what being a good ally really means? Did you recommit yourself to being a better ally in the future?

Or did you double down with the idea that you’re an ally, not one of those bigots out there, and you marched with King, and you supported some feminists in 1973, and you’ve done all this work, and therefore you didn’t do anything wrong, you find nothing objectionable in what you did (or failed to do), and so the problem must be with the people you’re allied to, and not with yourself. In other words: did you center yourself?

The kind of people who say Stop Attacking Your Allies are the kind who tie their allyship to specific behaviors from the group they’re supposedly interested in helping. They, the ally, want to dictate the terms of the relationship and want to be the one to say “Now it’s the time to address this thing,” instead of allowing the marginalized and oppressed folks to make that determination. The ally wants to set the rules for what is appropriate discourse, to determine the parameters for politeness, and the conditions under which they will use or set aside their privilege. Do I need to explain the problems with that?[2]

Are we really “driving away” our allies, or are we making it clear that we won’t accept an ally relationship that is about the needs and comfort of the allies above everyone else? Yes, we might be making that clear with harsh language. And yes, in making that clear we might hurt some feelings. That happens when allies don’t listen to the polite, patient words that come before the yelling.

[yardwork]

12. Yes, that is what is happening here.

Stirring up "parallel violence" among oppressed people makes them exhausted from fighting one another rather than fighting the oppressors.

Homophobic hate groups actually distributed written plans to stir up trouble between African American communities and gay communities over the past decade. These documents were revealed when a case in Maine was lost by the hate group NOM and they were ordered by courts to reveal their donor names.

I believe that there are trolls on DU and all internet sites who are paid to cause disruption between Democrats. Right now, the trolls embedded in DU are targeting the AA group.

Beware of anybody who seeks to divide us.

[gollygee]

13. Sometimes people are just racist

And sometimes people are just jerks.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

[yardwork]

16. people are racist because their culture teaches them to be so.

Racism has been encouraged in the New World since it was invaded by Europeans. Racism - and all the myths nurtured to keep it alive - has been part of our culture from the beginning.

How do we turn that around? Martin Luther King, Jr. had some compelling suggestions.

[bettyellen]

25. If you'd actually spent any time here, or in dozens of threads aimed at POC here- you'd know this

little lecture of yours has been given to this community many many times.
So I guess you don't realize how patronizing this sounds? Try reading up before you post an OP- it would show some actual interest in the matter, while this OP does not.

[randys1]

29. A year ago when a rightwing prick on another board told me they were going to be able

to destroy Hillary before the election, I laughed at him and offered a $10,000 bet and have the funds held on someone's paypal account.

He didnt take me up on it, I am now glad he didnt.

It is happening, whether or not certain people here are sincere and dont realize what they are doing, I dont know.

What I know is in using Bernie, the right is creating a very real possibility of the one candidate that before now was a guaranteed winner over the assholes being destroyed.

[yardwork]

32. The people helping to take down a Democrat are naive, stupid,

Or not on our side.

[bettyellen]

35. I agree with the RWers using DU to try and split the party. No one I know in RL is stupid enough to

fall for it, but the "passionate" rhetoric gets over on some here- even RW CTs get play these days.
It is a scam.

[Number23]

44. Thank you, bettyellen.

And the fact that not ONE of the recs for this piece is from a regular of this forum says it all.

[bettyellen]

45. If you're going to try to teach people something 1) do your homework 2) don't cut and paste crap

that is all over the damn internet and has been for years.
THAT is being a low INFO poster.

[blm]

26. Yep!

Because it has proven to work well for them over the decades. But, bear in mind, some of it IS just ignorance and/or racism.

[GoneFishin]

27. True.

[stevenleser]

34. It's not 1%'ers that are alert stalking African American posters on DU.

We don't know who mailed the letters to bravenak, at least not yet.

But the alert-stalking, we know where that is coming from.

[mhatrw]

36. Yes, I am new here. I did not mean to give you a whitesplain lecture.

I was just pointing out who benefits most when people who probably agree with each other on over 95% of the issues facing our country, including the huge problem of institutional and personal racism that pervades all levels of our society, are manipulated into acrimony and rancor.

I am not saying that this definitely happened in any specific case. As many have said, sometimes a racist is just a racist. Racism pervades all economic divisions. But sowing rancor and distrust among people who basically agree about this and almost everything else does serve the interests of the 0.1%.

Thanks for not banning me yet. With all the fur flying, that is very understanding of you.

[JI7]

38. but people don't agree. look at kim davis. her bigotry isn't due to

Some wealthy types.

[mhatrw]

39. Sadly, people in general don't agree. But lots of people around here do.

And don't pretend that Republican billionaire donors have not tried to use "the homosexual lobby wants to make us all gay!" to keep stupid rednecks voting against their own pocketbooks.

People of color, immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals, the Jews, the poor and even feminists all serve as convenient punching bags to keep people from recognizing and removing their overriding oppressors.

[JI7]

40. Some people actually do care about social issues more than economic

This includes people who hate minorities.

When they vote for bigots that ARE voting their interest because their interest is to keep some people down.

On the other side there are some well to do republican women who will vote for democrats because thst are turned off by republicans who are conservative on social issues.

[randys1]

41. Teaparty votes against their own literal survival SO they can vote for someone

who shares their hatred of minorities and Gays.

[mhatrw]

42. Right. Many bigots care about their bigotry more than economic issues.

That is why our economic overloads and their minions so love to foment bigotry.

[bettyellen]

46. which is why it is on people like you and me to support BLM and our brothers and sisters -

and by support I do mean join their efforts and insist all candidates address the issues of violence and inequity. Don't join the selfish asses here who can see past the Atwater plot bullshit. They are looking for excuses to desert the black community and feel okay about recruiting bigots. Our tent is not that big.

[mhatrw]

47. Again, I am new here.

I have learned a lot.so far, but I still have a lot to learn.

I originally thought that BLM's targeting of Sanders' speeches was some sort of Clinton campaign conspiracy. But when I looked into it more closely, I understood and applauded the strategy. Sanders needed to address institutional racism head on, not just economic injustice. I am proud that he was not as tone deaf about that as some of his supporters (including me, I'm sorry to say) initially were.

I think it is a good strategy to target so-called champions of racial equality and justice to get them to address this important issue directly and forcefully. I am not sure I would make the best spokesperson, but I do support this and try to explain why I support this to those who do not.

[bettyellen]

51. think twice before you get behind any conspiracy theories. there is a lot of paranoia on the net,

and hostility is too easy for many. Lots of groups are going to try and influence the candidate, and we all need to evaluate how important their issues are to both us and the party. There seems to be a lot of anger at POC here for not supporting Sanders in large enough percentages, and you see it again and again in attacks to this group and it's members elsewhere on DU.

A lot of people devalue the fight for social justice in ways similar to your OP -often while exhibiting how little they know about it's history and giving away their basic disinterest. These same people deride POC here (as well as women) as stupid pawns, while for the most part they make it clear they themselves have nothing to lose by shelving SJ issues. And their love of Bernie has all to do with the economy- and their paychecks. Yet they come here and preach to people to not be so self interested, and to set their concerns about life and death issues aside, and work for Bernie. It never goes over well.

How about you resist the urge to go along with the paranoid blowhards who don't care if they alienate huge and significantly loyal voting blocks such as AAs and women? Some of them admit they are actually be more interested in splitting the party than winning. And the fact is, they can't win without more of us. Figure out how you can win people over for your candidate while respecting their needs too, and you'll be head and shoulders ahead of a lot of people here. It should not be this hard.

[mhatrw]

56. I think you mischaracterize the fundamental disagreement.

Yes, Sanders' supporters are most concerned with economic justice, but that is not because of their own paychecks. We just don't want to live in a country where the top 0.1% steals everything from everybody else, especially those with the least. We want a country where everyone has basic healthcare, everyone who works makes a living wage, and nobody starves. We don't think that is too much to ask of our billionaire capitalist robber baron overlords.

The disconnect, as I currently see it, is simply a matter of priorities. Many if not most POC strongly prioritize social justice, while most Sanders' supporters strongly prioritize economic justice. I say this because this was me before I thought carefully about both sides of these issues.

However, my guess is that the vast majority of POC are strongly in favor of economic justice. And my guess is that the vast majority of Sanders' supporters are strongly in favor of social justice. I don't know this for sure, but I do know this about myself, the Sanders' supporters I know personally, and Sanders himself.

So the vast majority of us basically agree on all counts except for prioritization. And, yes, I agree that this is because of some sort of latent racism or privilege that makes it hard for white people like me to see things from the point of view of POC. Sanders was taken aback initially, just as I was, because we both felt it was obvious that we wanted the same things. But we aren't getting shot, targeted by the police, and jailed in large numbers to support a corrupt, racist, for profit "justice system". So I finally get it, at least to a degree. First things first.

I am willing to change my priorities and to help others like me do the same. Is that a start? Can we somehow learn to work together for all the things we all agree on?

[Chitown Kev]

49. LOL

I did not mean to give you a whitesplain lecture.

The hell you didn't.

[mhatrw]

50. OK. I guess you know my motivations better than I do.

I'm trying to learn.

[Chitown Kev]

53. Politically active black people

have only being hearing various versions of this from the white left for at least 100 years, if not longer.

and, of course, many Bernie Sanders supporters have been consistently saying this...so why are you posting this in the AA forum?

[mhatrw]

54. Because it was the first thing that came to my stupid naive white mind

when I read about what happened to Bravenak.

Racism is real. So is Cointelpro. That's all I was saying. I did not mean any harm. I did not mean to condescend. I now understand that you are sick of hearing such stuff and that what I posted was some sort of denigrating cliche. I admit I have much to learn. But why not give me the benefit of the doubt and educate me about how I can support BLM without insulting you? I am sincerely, if ineptly, on BLM's side. Unless you know better, of course. In which case, I am still willing to learn if you care to help me.

[Chitown Kev]

55. Ok, let me say "om" three times, first...

You participate here at DU far more than I do, although I am a regular participant in the progressive blogosphere.

I don't know the percentage of posters here at DU that are black; I do know that where I do participate the number runs anywhere from 5-7 percent most times (and for other POC, it may be even less).

POC that participate in the largely white progressive blogs as exemplified by DU or Daily Kos (where I regularly post) are VERY well-informed not only on progressive politics, generally, but on progressive politics as they relate to black communities...in the later case, much moreso that white progressives that participate at these blogs.

It's not THAT much of a denigrating cliché, there IS some truth to your OP, but it is often said in order convince black progressives to prioritize "class politics" over "race politics."

And in the context of this attack on bravenak, the OP makes little sense.

It could be a troll. It may not be.

Simply standing with bravenak is all that is necessary, in this case.

[mhatrw]

57. I get it now. And I stand with bravenak.

I also get why it must be annoying to be told to put class politics above race politics by "good" white liberals all the time.

That was me just a few months ago. I have been trying to evolve to find some common ground with people I agree with 100%. I have thought about this a lot in the last few months, but I have a lot to learn. I'm just a stupid typical well-meaning white person who has managed to somehow get by on good intentions, disgust at the "justice system", and "color blindness" without ever really confronting the problem of racism. But I am trying. So that's something. Somehow, it is finally getting through to me. I'm sorry that so many had to die before that finally happened.

[Chitown Kev]

59. Yes, it is NOT that POC are not strongly for economic justice

it's that most prioritize it differently (and I might say, equally, but I can only speak for myself w/r/t that) simply because we have to.

Yes, some black people benefited from The New Deal. But a helluva lot more white people benefitted from he New Deal because of the way that The New Deal was set up and administered. And often, white people benefited from The New Deal at the expense of similarily situated black people (e.g. you didn't hear a whole lot of bellyaching about AFDC until black mothers still mired in poverty became the face of that program in the late 50's/early 60's)

And while the G.I. Bill was not, strictly speaking, a New Deal program, it did start under FDR and it was mostly white people that benefited from it; there were many blacks that were eligible to use it that were turned away.

So, no, black people (and other people of color, quite frankly) cannot allow the assumption that a rising economic tide will life all boats on an equal basis.

[mhatrw]

61. And Medicare and Medicaid are also administered differently according to race.

But we agree on all of this, and I think most Sanders supporters would as well if they just thought about it harder.

But there are some obstacles to overcome. White people just reflexively don't want to think about it too much, even if their hearts are in the right place. Sort of like the way white Americans don't want to think about the genocide of Native Americans or the subjugation of Latin America, except this is even harder for them because it is so here and now. People who feel they are also struggling to make ends meet don't want to feel guilty that they benefit from a racist system, even when they know clearly that they do and even when they don't want to.

[JustAnotherGen]

62. even if it IS a 1%er Divide and Conquer tactic

It's not like Black folks are the ones practicing the racism/division!

Your OP suggests:
A) Black folks are a party to, rather than, victims of, the racism;


and/or

B)Black folks' resistance to the racism is somehow part of the divisive problem.

[mhatrw]

64. I have disowned the OP several times now.

The 0.1% setting people against one another does not imply that black folks are practicing or problematically resisting racism.

My suggestion is simply that powerful members of the 0.1% exploit and foment the racism of whites and legitimate resentment of this racism of POC to ensure divisions even among those who largely agree on everything, including ending the heinous problems of individual and institutional racism.

When I started this thread, I admit that I didn't realize how much I and the way I reflexively characterized the issue were the problem. I guess that is one reason why it is so easy to divide us. I must admit that I was trying not to look into the mirror when I wondered, "Why can't we all just get along?"

[bettyellen]

66. Perhaps you should spend some time reading a bunch of threads here yourself? The expectation that

someone educate you is pretty common too. It gets tiresome when all you really need to do is delve into it yourself. That way you're less likely to write an OP that has been literally done to death here.

As far as "Cointelpro" goes, please also note the amount of crazy RW talking points we see posted around here against Clinton. I'm waiting to see Vince Forster dragged out because I saw mention on Monica Lewinsky today. There is a lot of manipulative bullshit around here these days.

[mhatrw]

67. OK, I get that educating people is tiresome.

But isn't that one of the major ways that activism can change society for the better?

[bettyellen]

68. So start a thread asking questions! Would't that be a reasonable alternative to doing research?

(not sure why your are hesitant to do that though?) much more effective than asking one random person in that thread. If you are really seeking to understand, a few points of view would help a great deal more.

[mhatrw]

69. I've been reading and taking your advice.

I admit that I have much to learn, and I do sincerely thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

The issues oriented posts here are very enlightening. You have a great group of thinkers here.

[bettyellen]

70. That is awesome! I think it is important to realize how complex the issues are- and it truly is

time to do something about overzealous and racist policing, as well as the huge failures of our current justice system.
BLM is not the enemy, nor are anyone who fights for social justice. We are in the same tent.

[betsuni]

63. Will this be on the final exam?

[mhatrw]

65. point taken