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In reply to the discussion: Because I can't stand it any more [View all]scipan
(2,378 posts)38. Well thought out. Good piece but from 12/21/23
The Israel Defense Forces says that it has killed thousands of Hamas fighters, significantly damaged 10 out of 24 1,000-strong battalions, destroyed hundreds of tunnel shafts, uncovered weapons stashes and that its troops now have achieved operational freedom in Gaza City in the enclaves north.
...snip...
But Israeli officials and supporters of Israel say the country had no alternative to a large-scale combat operation to shore up Israels security in the aftermath of the Oct. 7 attacks, and that Hamas vast tunnel network required a major offensive to dismantle. They also say that Israel has come under criticism for its tactics in the past even when previous operations were more limited.
IDF officers say they need to keep up the ground offensive for several months to fulfill their goals but time may be running out.
...snip...
A senior Biden administration official said the Israeli offensive has been successful in removing Hamas commanders and midlevel commanders.
Theyve eliminated quite a bunch of Hamas leadership at various levels, the official said. They are making progress against the leaders. Theres no doubt about that. But it is a big, well-oiled, organized military machine that theyre up against, and so they believe that they still have more work to do.
...snip...
But Israeli officials and supporters of Israel say the country had no alternative to a large-scale combat operation to shore up Israels security in the aftermath of the Oct. 7 attacks, and that Hamas vast tunnel network required a major offensive to dismantle. They also say that Israel has come under criticism for its tactics in the past even when previous operations were more limited.
IDF officers say they need to keep up the ground offensive for several months to fulfill their goals but time may be running out.
...snip...
A senior Biden administration official said the Israeli offensive has been successful in removing Hamas commanders and midlevel commanders.
Theyve eliminated quite a bunch of Hamas leadership at various levels, the official said. They are making progress against the leaders. Theres no doubt about that. But it is a big, well-oiled, organized military machine that theyre up against, and so they believe that they still have more work to do.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israels-offensive-hamas-gaza-succeeding-rcna130745
I do want Israel to decimate Hamas, but am convinced you're right about diminishing returns. They are now seemingly moving to assassinations in other countries; they've done it before and leaders basically just get replaced, although there must be a deterrent and degrading effect.
In Gaza, they have yet afaik to destroy all the tunnels, confiscate the weapons, kill the rest of the battalion commanders and militants, and "achieve operational freedom" in South Gaza(To the extent possible). I don't see that they've done that yet.
Netanyahu's not the right leader at all. Under him the IDF has a sort of careless disregard about killing Palestinians. His plans for afterward seem to be to make it so hard to live in Gaza that people will leave voluntarily, while possibly working to give them an alternative. So short of genocide definition #3 so far.
Like you said, there's deep seated hatred on both sides (especially by Hamas imo). Nobody's hands are clean. To turn that around Palestinians need a country and a working government that takes care of their basic needs, then maybe they will have something more important to them than martyrdom.
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It seems the parliament or the people in Israel support Netanyahu. What do we do about that?
Walleye
Feb 2024
#1
Israel has already committed the first three, and the definition calls for any one, not all five.
Lonestarblue
Feb 2024
#10
The definition of genocide contains two necessary conditions, the first of which is specific intent.
lapucelle
Feb 2024
#59
It is the specific intent to annihalate "the group as such" that must be shown.
lapucelle
Feb 2024
#79
The elements of the crime are the elements of the crime. That is not an argument. It is a fact.
lapucelle
Feb 2024
#99
I want innocent people to be able to live in peace and not be killed at random.
twodogsbarking
Feb 2024
#12
It's dividing Dems & Independents. Could mean the difference between Biden winning & losing
Dark n Stormy Knight
Feb 2024
#91
You've got to remember, Bernie is a politician. He has to walk very carefully to not upset the cart. nt
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#20
Huh? "Mr. Sanders said people should be careful about using the word genocide". That's not a fact, that is an
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#34
"We have to do everything we can to stop the killing of innocent men, women and children" is pretty popular
muriel_volestrangler
Feb 2024
#66
See, I was right. You could not answer or come up with an example. Here is something for you:
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#41
None of us can or should - if that is even true. Was she under oath? My point being that I don't think that anyone
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#36
Sure, but exaggerating, embellishing are common. Under oath narrows those possibilities. You are making severe claims so
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#88
" It makes them no better than Hamas and, in the end, Israel will become a pariah." The world's judgement will not be
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#18
They are at pariah status now. Netanyahu fucked Israel's future over for decades.
Sky Jewels
Feb 2024
#19
Too many to list. It is however clear, that Bibi wanted nothing more than to use any means to complete his forced
TeamProg
Feb 2024
#28
This is the Warsaw Ghetto all over again. Shame on Netanyahu and all the extremists who sail in him.
Ford_Prefect
Feb 2024
#22
It isn't. This will be old news by late summer. Some other fucking crisis will supplant this.
SoFlaBro
Feb 2024
#42
This is what Hamas wants. They don't call it genocide, they call it jihad martyrdom.
LeftInTX
Feb 2024
#77
Putin is clapping. Nothing. I mean nothing will distract me from the election.
themaguffin
Feb 2024
#93