2016 Postmortem

rbnyc

(17,045 posts) Sat Dec 19, 2015, 06:08 PM Dec 2015

163

I'm going to go ahead and drop this here. [View all]

I wrote the following on December 1st and was going to post it, but decided to let it go. But now I'm deciding, fuck it. This is the truth. This is a message I feel is critical to our future. And I believe it is the message that is ultimately best for the health of the Democratic Party, if the party has any hope of surviving as a worthy entity.

...

I'm willing to lose.

I'm fighting to win. Our best chance for real change is to support Bernie Sanders in the primaries, and then take the general. And then keep fighting so that when President Sanders says that he has a mandate from the people, we are there to prove it, and deliver consequences to the machinery that will try to stop us.

But if Bernie Sanders doesn't get the nomination, I am writing him in. If every supporter does this, we will win. But I am willing to lose. Social security, reproductive freedom, marriage equality, and all the other issues corporate democrats hold like hostages so that we will be afraid to revolt...I'm willing to let them shoot the hostages. I'm willing to lose more ground, rather than continue to deliver the message that we can be counted on to back down in fear, that we will cower for scraps while our collective worth is diced up and delivered to elite private interests. I am willing to lose so that the plutocratic party leadership will also lose, because as long as they believe that they can count on our fear, all the things we are trying to protect will be eroded anyway, and none of it will matter in the total climate catastrophe that is the inevitable conclusion of serving global corporate interests.

We need to win, but if we can't win, we will be better served if corporate democrats lose and we lose ground in the short term than if corporate democrats win and we carry on along this same poison path imagining that it is somehow a victory.

I am not saying there is no difference between Democrats and Republicans. I am saying that the difference between Democrats and Republicans is used as a tool to keep us from challenging the very important areas where the parties are the same, and that is in representing the financial interests of their corporate sponsors to the detriment of all.

Their formula must be made impotent. To that end, I will fight to win, but I am willing to lose.

248 replies

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Highlight:

I'm going to go ahead and drop this here. [View all] rbnyc Dec 2015 OP

I wish I could say you are wrong. 99Forever Dec 2015 #1

I'm with you, rbnyc roguevalley Dec 2015 #77

I like Bernie and would be happy if he wins the nomination Dem2 Dec 2015 #2

It's not to make a point... rbnyc Dec 2015 #4

Yeah, President Trump picking SCOTUS will help your son. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #7

Hostage post. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #27

I can't wait for the admins to start enforcing the TOS. NuclearDem Dec 2015 #30

I know. This is getting ridiculous. cwydro Dec 2015 #50

Sounds like we have a lot of losers on this site. N/T justhanginon Dec 2015 #103

Lol. cwydro Dec 2015 #122

Agreed... a number of hillary supporters will disapear fast. Bubzer Dec 2015 #235

Can I screenshot your post and share on social media? JaneyVee Dec 2015 #37

What do you think the OP is? JoePhilly Dec 2015 #70

the republicans are not my enemy ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #153

What the . . .? Enjoy your stay. brush Dec 2015 #155

They are Americans are they not? ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #175

The GOP is owned by, and work for the 1% brush Dec 2015 #179

i can differentiate candidate from party ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #195

That's unfortunate for you brush Dec 2015 #198

some how the ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #199

Whatever you say, but there is a difference between repugs and Dems brush Dec 2015 #214

Clinton ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #219

Hillary, not matter what you call her is still better than any of those repugs in the clown car brush Dec 2015 #239

So who is your candidate? brush Dec 2015 #248

So is Hillary Clinton. What a coincidence! senz Dec 2015 #241

If you think I'm.not fighting the GOP rbnyc Dec 2015 #159

It's more important to you to prevent a progressive from winning that defeating the rhett o rick Dec 2015 #43

Self-fulfilling prophecy. NuclearDem Dec 2015 #55

It has nothing to do with the people on this board zalinda Dec 2015 #94

We're headed for the same ravine Plucketeer Dec 2015 #127

We have no assurance who 840high Dec 2015 #128

You've demonstrated the very reason we should all stand with rbnyc... MrMickeysMom Dec 2015 #183

The New Deal will be dismantled Dem2 Dec 2015 #66

Isn't it already being dismantled? artislife Dec 2015 #141

Good luck with that willing to lose stuff. It's not smart though. Repugs could fill the SCOTUS . . . brush Dec 2015 #154

Not only a bad short term strategy creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #185

If the CORPORATE Dems move to the right they lose EVEN MORE as they did in red states in 2014! cascadiance Dec 2015 #204

Simple then creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #229

How about a simpler and MORE *democratic* strategy... cascadiance Dec 2015 #237

You have Bernie Sanders creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #238

Precisely! bvar22 Dec 2015 #224

This isn't about blaming Nader creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #230

Would you throw your children under the bus to protect your own ass? starroute Dec 2015 #49

Should I buy a machine gun? Dem2 Dec 2015 #60

I'm sure he's just throwing strangers and people he doesn't give a shit about, under the bus. MH1 Dec 2015 #64

I will vote for the Democratic nominee. Tikki Dec 2015 #93

if sanders loses ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #149

Oh, dear Dem2 Dec 2015 #151

yup ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #171

Oh, my Dem2 Dec 2015 #176

yup ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #194

Yep. nt Live and Learn Dec 2015 #200

True. senz Dec 2015 #242

LOL. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #3

That's all diversion. Nt rbnyc Dec 2015 #5

and so are you. Have fun writing your candidate into your ballot if Hillary is the nominee. still_one Dec 2015 #51

Been nice knowing you. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #6

It's kind of like tough love. rbnyc Dec 2015 #11

I call it more like being like a Republican. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #15

You are in la la land....the "tough love" Gloria Dec 2015 #16

Thanks dad. That is what Nader told us in 2000 also, so pardon me if I don't sympathize with your still_one Dec 2015 #53

That's parenting. I really do not wish to parent anyone else and I certainly don't need parenting. Laser102 Dec 2015 #99

Is that what you tell the victims of 9/11 and the Iraq war because some people thought it would be Renew Deal Dec 2015 #211

Did you tell that to your friends when they said they would vote for Trump over Bernie? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #18

Wasn't aware of that thread... rbnyc Dec 2015 #21

I was responding to MohRokTah Scootaloo Dec 2015 #23

Ouch! Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2015 #187

You are the one that doesn't care. All Democrats can get behind Sen Sanders, even many rhett o rick Dec 2015 #48

No doubt. rbnyc Dec 2015 #56

. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #62

You should always vote your principles. NorthCarolina Dec 2015 #8

Thanks. rbnyc Dec 2015 #12

me too. They can silence the messenger but they can't silence the message roguevalley Dec 2015 #79

Bye Bye leftofcool Dec 2015 #9

We'll see... rbnyc Dec 2015 #17

Amen to that Mbrow Dec 2015 #152

beware of the truth SoLeftIAmRight Dec 2015 #10

You are a republican workinclasszero Dec 2015 #13

Omg rbnyc Dec 2015 #19

Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #25

Many of us don't consider Hillary a Democrat, not matter what letter is after her name. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #28

Oh, the irony! Indydem Dec 2015 #108

He's running on the Democratic ticket because he doesn't want to split the vote Lordquinton Dec 2015 #177

No, the Irony here is that Mok Roh Tah has stated he won't vote in the general Lordquinton Dec 2015 #180

Many of us don't consider Sanders a Democrat wyldwolf Dec 2015 #109

And a questionable socialist to boot. eom MyNameGoesHere Dec 2015 #119

Agree 100%. fleur-de-lisa Dec 2015 #114

That means sometimes it is better to lose... rbnyc Dec 2015 #96

That means you intentionally directly violated the DU TOS. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #105

I think that is a judgement call.. rbnyc Dec 2015 #113

So your answer to both questions would be yes? MohRokTah Dec 2015 #118

You are so funny (I won't say what I really think) Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #186

Not voting creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #190

Having known rbnyc since DU's earliest days and knowing you for all 1 minute... ScreamingMeemie Dec 2015 #102

Thanks... rbnyc Dec 2015 #210

This new "class" of DUer has me scratching my head often. ScreamingMeemie Dec 2015 #222

Baloney Jackilope Dec 2015 #116

BS - they help us in the future 840high Dec 2015 #132

The action you propose helps no one but the republicans AlbertCat Dec 2015 #220

i'm with you. no more holding us hostage restorefreedom Dec 2015 #14

Thank you. rbnyc Dec 2015 #20

I bet there are a lot who agree with you marlakay Dec 2015 #35

most welcome :) we'll be needing to stick together. restorefreedom Dec 2015 #120

There's a chance they are discussing... rbnyc Dec 2015 #123

well after manny, i can believe anything restorefreedom Dec 2015 #136

It certainly took some grit... Stryder Dec 2015 #166

Thanks rbnyc Dec 2015 #167

I love Dennis. Stryder Dec 2015 #189

we need to be treated as adults, not 8-year-olds who need to be lied to for their own good MisterP Dec 2015 #63

exactly. nt restorefreedom Dec 2015 #117

....x10+ 840high Dec 2015 #135

Every US soldier who ever served believing he protected democracy served for that HereSince1628 Dec 2015 #22

Nice rbnyc Dec 2015 #46

Sometimes things just need to get worse Cassiopeia Dec 2015 #24

who in the hell is asking you who you will vote for in the GE? Why do you feel it so important to still_one Dec 2015 #26

And you can use the "hide" feature. eom Fawke Em Dec 2015 #29

I don't hide anyone. If someone is dumb enough to make delcarations that violate the TOS of a forum still_one Dec 2015 #44

Says they care more about America's future senz Dec 2015 #243

Or the "Alert abuse" one. OilemFirchen Dec 2015 #76

I think it is important because... rbnyc Dec 2015 #168

Your lack of influence creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #193

Funny... rbnyc Dec 2015 #207

Also rbnyc Dec 2015 #209

"JUST because?" creeksneakers2 Dec 2015 #231

Easy. It's a troll. Nt ecstatic Dec 2015 #178

I'm a member of this community. rbnyc Dec 2015 #208

So what? You come on here suggesting people should write in ecstatic Dec 2015 #234

You could take a lesson from some of the folks here... rbnyc Dec 2015 #236

Insane treestar Dec 2015 #31

We will see. Nt rbnyc Dec 2015 #42

I couldn't help but recommend this, it's good you changed your mind and posted this.., AuntPatsy Dec 2015 #32

Thanks. Nt rbnyc Dec 2015 #41

I would like to convince you to vote for Hillary if she is the primary winner. OKNancy Dec 2015 #33

I really love and respect your approach. Thank you. rbnyc Dec 2015 #38

Mmmh, mmh, mmh! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #34

Come on, Skinner, they're pretty much just begging for it at this point. NuclearDem Dec 2015 #36

I'm really not. rbnyc Dec 2015 #40

+1 eggplant Dec 2015 #65

I guess agreeing to the TOS when you registered here means nothing. People say they will abide by still_one Dec 2015 #67

I believe I am supporting the party... rbnyc Dec 2015 #83

This isn't about "the party". This is about a forum which clearly state its TOS that someone agrees still_one Dec 2015 #84

Holding your interpretation of the TOS over the heads of others because... totodeinhere Dec 2015 #170

Begging to be validated and consoled is more like it. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #72

It really is just a call for strategy adjustment. rbnyc Dec 2015 #88

Peace be with you. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #98

You too, thanks. rbnyc Dec 2015 #160

Coming in loud and clear, NuclearDem senz Dec 2015 #240

Are you still seeing phantom Earths? NuclearDem Dec 2015 #245

No, I'm seeing senz Dec 2015 #246

Has nothing to do with Clinton. NuclearDem Dec 2015 #247

I'm enthusiastic about voting Clinton. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #39

+1 SunSeeker Dec 2015 #78

My sentiments exactly. nt Codeine Dec 2015 #87

A bold statement considering what the TOS are on this site. edgineered Dec 2015 #45

Give us some contact info Curmudgeoness Dec 2015 #47

Sometimes I think about... rbnyc Dec 2015 #52

OK. Curmudgeoness Dec 2015 #61

The most intelligent post of this thread still_one Dec 2015 #54

Hey! Get out of my head! Agony Dec 2015 #57

Everyone has their game Lazy Daisy Dec 2015 #58

Thank you for a very powerful, courageous post. Broward Dec 2015 #59

The GOP nearly destroyed the nation when Bush was President. JoePhilly Dec 2015 #68

This is the same crappy argument made by Nader in 2000 -- that if we let things get worse, pnwmom Dec 2015 #69

I know many jaycrewz Dec 2015 #73

Nader is no good...He caused Gore to lose, moreover.. He Never Accepted any Responsibility for that Stuart G Dec 2015 #82

I hope you are banned. Metric System Dec 2015 #71

If Skinner is convinced they mean it, they will be. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #75

Why? rbnyc Dec 2015 #85

Read the TOS. Metric System Dec 2015 #89

Really? Why would you really care? Broward Dec 2015 #110

Of course you do. DocMac Dec 2015 #111

We don't have a nominee. 840high Dec 2015 #138

Well said. draa Dec 2015 #74

I hear you. rbnyc Dec 2015 #100

Two Words...Supreme Court.....I am not willing to lose....... Stuart G Dec 2015 #80

HC would appoint a Wall St. friendly candidate senz Dec 2015 #244

rb, you are right. If we let the bluedogs,, corporatists, repub lites, whatever you want to call litlbilly Dec 2015 #81

You have a very valid pointing in saying: Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #86

I get it. rbnyc Dec 2015 #130

I think we did this in N. Illinois With Melissa Bean Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #90

It certainly makes you wonder fbc Dec 2015 #91

Indeed rbnyc Dec 2015 #104

Count me out, I'm not willing to lose under any circumstances. n/t mountain grammy Dec 2015 #92

This is the way Hitler rose to power Onlooker Dec 2015 #95

That's just a logical fallacy. rbnyc Dec 2015 #97

And downthread you compare DU to a Tipperary Dec 2015 #174

That was not a comparison... rbnyc Dec 2015 #181

Oh, I see. Tipperary Dec 2015 #182

I will join Bernie in supporting the Democratic nominee... Mike Nelson Dec 2015 #101

I'm for Bernie. He has my primary vote. saltpoint Dec 2015 #106

When I found myself asking,"What the hell I am doing?" standing on a doorstep ScreamingMeemie Dec 2015 #107

So great to see you! rbnyc Dec 2015 #115

'Evil Kerry' was a very very liberal Senator and has done a great job as SOS. emulatorloo Dec 2015 #201

I quit that day. And remember, you called him "evil," not me ScreamingMeemie Dec 2015 #221

"For the first time, I realized I was campaigning for the lesser... " emulatorloo Dec 2015 #223

"... problem creator of two unqualified candidates." ScreamingMeemie Dec 2015 #225

Then why not say that in the first place? emulatorloo Dec 2015 #226

It must be nice to have the luxury of "losing ground in the short term" if you don't get your way Empowerer Dec 2015 #112

Let's look at the fallacies in your post Yavin4 Dec 2015 #121

I'm an LGBT woman who is caring for an elder parent... rbnyc Dec 2015 #125

You are an admirable person, but you don't speak for all people in your situation Yavin4 Dec 2015 #163

They may. rbnyc Dec 2015 #164

Kicked and recommended to the Max! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #124

I'm with you all the way. 840high Dec 2015 #126

You and the OP need to be shown the door. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #131

The conservatives or at least their ideology need to be shown the door Broward Dec 2015 #139

A Hillary supporter posted that she 840high Dec 2015 #143

I wasn't a member when she posted that. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #144

till we have a nominee I thought 840high Dec 2015 #145

Of course! I really encourage you to do that, just no "fuck the eventual nominee"... MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #148

Writing Bernie in Plucketeer Dec 2015 #129

+1 nt rbnyc Dec 2015 #134

I'm coming around to the same conclusion you are Locrian Dec 2015 #157

I'm also planning on writing Bernie in if he doesn't get the nomination Luciferous Dec 2015 #133

When We Stand Together - No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Dec 2015 #137

Ayup. AzDar Dec 2015 #140

Yes, I Get it. I will Vote for Hillary McKim Dec 2015 #142

As I Go Around To Bernie Functions In This Very Red County I DO ChiciB1 Dec 2015 #146

How can you possibly think "if every supporter writes Sanders in, we will win"? muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #147

indeed, the good cop/bad cop/faux duopoloy/janus-like condition in DC must end stupidicus Dec 2015 #150

I don't think any Democratic nominee for president is going to lose Gore1FL Dec 2015 #156

No offense intended, but you are just absolutely wrong mythology Dec 2015 #158

Principles over party! Promethean Dec 2015 #161

You do realize it's open season on us Bernie folks here, right? KamaAina Dec 2015 #162

Yes. rbnyc Dec 2015 #165

Sometimes in order to make a real difference you have to take a chance on losing. totodeinhere Dec 2015 #169

Exactly. rbnyc Dec 2015 #173

Thank you for the post. Paka Dec 2015 #172

I agree. I strive for pragmatism ... Fantastic Anarchist Dec 2015 #184

Obama had a "mandate from the people," and all "the people" did was bitch and moan and not show up! Hekate Dec 2015 #188

People showed up but they were ignored and dismissed as "the fringe" Armstead Dec 2015 #213

rbnyc thank you for your Nite Owl Dec 2015 #191

Good question rbnyc Dec 2015 #192

You consider marriage equality and abortion a hostage that may be shot? Renew Deal Dec 2015 #196

Winning a battle if you lose the... one_voice Dec 2015 #197

I figure you are gonna get banned for this post but I agree with you 100%. PatrickforO Dec 2015 #202

You should probably research Bobby Kennedy a little more. Indydem Dec 2015 #205

You should vote however you want. It is your right. emulatorloo Dec 2015 #203

Perhaps Bernie's leadership on the issue will persuade you. Rose Siding Dec 2015 #206

I hope you can stick around. Armstead Dec 2015 #212

Hey, nice to see you. rbnyc Dec 2015 #233

This a really interesting post. lovemydog Dec 2015 #215

You are awesome. rbnyc Dec 2015 #232

K&R We live in the most reality shareholders cannot block. raouldukelives Dec 2015 #216

Common enough feeling among millennials. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #217

you might as well just stay home. write in votes are not counted unless mopinko Dec 2015 #218

right--the differences have always been used to get us to vote for the similarities MisterP Dec 2015 #227

Kickin' Faux pas Dec 2015 #228