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2016 Postmortem

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RBInMaine

(13,570 posts)
Sat Nov 15, 2014, 05:47 AM Nov 2014

Warren isn't running and Bernie could never win. So let's talk REALITY. [View all]

Last edited Sun Nov 16, 2014, 09:07 AM - Edit history (2)

Warren isn't running. Do people hear that? SHE IS NOT RUNNING. She has said so CLEARLY, EXPLICITLY, and REPEATEDLY.

Bernie is a great guy with real passion, BUT HE CAN NOT WIN A NATIONAL ELECTION.

Much as some here would like the nation to be on the far left, it isn't. The nation remains, on balance, essentially centrist, but in presidential cycles one, with high turnout of young people and minorities, that has moved to the CENTER-LEFT. But NOT the far left. We need to show we have a STRONG ECONOMIC PLAN THAT WILL GET RESULTS FOR THE PEOPLE. People want to know in CONCRETE TERMS what is "IN IT FOR ME?" The R's always say, "Vote for us and you'll get lower taxes." Same old same old, but it works for them. We have to be able to offer concrete incentives and a strong and compelling plan on the economy.

Hillary Clinton would certainly be the frontrunner if she declares a candidacy, and in the end we need to get firmly behind the nominee.

To hear some on the far-left constantly bash her candidacy in hopes of Warren or Bernie is voluntarily living in non-reality and foolishnesss. Whether a person is on the far right and out of reality or on the far left and out of reality, out of reality is out of reality.

I for one will choose reality and support the nominee whomever it is. I think if Hillary runs, it will most likely be her, and we would have the opportunity as a party to AGAIN make history, elect the first woman president, and a STRONG one at that. The people want STRONG leadership, and there is no question she is tough as nails. I have great respect for Obama, but he is a strong CAMPAIGNER. He simply has not projected himself as a strong LEADER in office. He is barely even coming out and strongly and consistently touting his own accomplishments. It is utterly stunning that the R's were just able to win big because they labeled Obama as a failure who is heading us in the wrong direction when he has under his belt the creation of over 10 million jobs, the deficit cut in half, no new ground wars, millions more with healthcare, lower gas prices, and a booming stock market. Americans want STRONG LEADERSHIP. And they sure as hell didn't get it from our national party apparatus in this last election. They didn't define the election, they didn't theme it, and they didn't message it. They instead allowed the R's to define the election on their terms while we had our candidates "Stand On Their Own." It totally FAILED and totally SUCKED.

Make no mistake. Clinton would define the election, and she and her team would run a strong campaign. I love Warren and Bernie, but one IS NOT RUNNING, and the other just can't win a national election. Never gonna happen.

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You don't want to talk reality. You want to talk Hillary. merrily Nov 2014 #1
Agreed Sherman A1 Nov 2014 #2
Trying to go against the perpetual motion meme machine is a bear, isn't it? merrily Nov 2014 #3
Bears! Sherman A1 Nov 2014 #4
Bernie has a good message, but he isn't a messenger who can win a national election. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #6
Whether he can win or not, his message is extremely important to the national debate. MoonchildCA Nov 2014 #132
Cuz you say so... AgingAmerican Nov 2014 #226
If I were Jon Stewart at the Daily Show, I might say, "Sherman AI, meet me at camera three." merrily Nov 2014 #7
Your last paragraph raises an interting point. pangaia Nov 2014 #84
People have to want to run. They also have to have money or access to money. merrily Nov 2014 #95
For two years now? More like since the day after Obama was nominated! arcane1 Nov 2014 #234
I started hearing it all over TV, like a modern Greek chorus, shortly before the 2012 election. merrily Nov 2014 #235
Good point, the "inevitable" stuff is more recent. arcane1 Nov 2014 #236
I do remember hearing "inevitable" in 2007, but then it stopped, as far as I heard. merrily Nov 2014 #237
Flip that sentence around..... brooklynite Nov 2014 #173
Please, Sherman A1 Nov 2014 #199
Simples...supporting progressive policies does not translate to supporting liberal candidates brooklynite Nov 2014 #210
And yet, Sherman A1 Nov 2014 #222
the polls beg to differ.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #31
Polls TWO YEARS out are utterly worthless. In 2006 HRC was polling to have a cakewalk coronation peacebird Nov 2014 #68
Yeah you keep telling yourself that 64% is going to vanish... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #69
It will vanish, all she has to do is speak off the cuff. She forgets the internet is here.... peacebird Nov 2014 #76
and THAT is your plan???? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #79
You think we should settle for a warhawk centrist because they run with "D" after their name? peacebird Nov 2014 #85
that is what YOU say...here is my proof to the contrary....you don't get to cherry-pick issues. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #86
Now you are just being redundant. I answered this below. Nice try! peacebird Nov 2014 #91
No you didnt....you think its an online game Hillary herself played. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #92
Fantastic list. Thanks for posting this. leftofcool Nov 2014 #121
you are very welcome VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #125
It will inevitibly diminish Scootaloo Nov 2014 #178
Independents would rather FERVERENTLY wish for Hillary's demise..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #180
This isn't the 9th inning of the 4th quarter. It's not even the preseason yet Scootaloo Nov 2014 #182
You will think so if Ted or Jeb wins.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #183
Or you can stick your fingers in your ears and keep ranting Scootaloo Nov 2014 #184
You are correct. RB is expressing only his/her own opinion -- and it's exactly that, nothing more. Cal33 Nov 2014 #74
No, Warren isn't running and Bernie can't win, and anyone on the real planet knows it. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #5
Insulting me and repeating yourself is not going to change my mind. I wrote my thoughts merrily Nov 2014 #8
The same posters are going to keep pushing the same inevitability meme until the primary is over peacebird Nov 2014 #61
When it's my friend, I use it. Maybe you should recommend ignore to the meme machine. merrily Nov 2014 #66
: ) peacebird Nov 2014 #70
Agreed INdemo Nov 2014 #27
There is at least one other demographic Hillary might lose as well. merrily Nov 2014 #58
Warren isn't running. It is insane to think she is and hang non-existent hopes on it. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #93
Yet you think that your heroes Elizabeth Warren Legalequilibrium78 Nov 2014 #90
The ultra left is as tone deaf to reality as the ultra right. This crowd backed Kucinich. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #94
He or she posted to me, not a crowd. As to me, your bit about Kucinich is a lie, as merrily Nov 2014 #110
you seem to have a problem with the primary process noiretextatique Nov 2014 #189
Ultraleft, Tealeft, what other names do you have for those on the left? davidpdx Nov 2014 #191
Link a post of mine saying Warren and/or Sanders is my hero. Try to get yourself some civility, too merrily Nov 2014 #100
Yep. LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #152
I worry about Hillary not winning also. airplaneman Nov 2014 #197
I don't think that is it. merrily Nov 2014 #230
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #233
hillary vadermike Nov 2014 #9
If HRC is the nominee then we will get a continuation of the militaristic, procorporate regime peacebird Nov 2014 #60
Are you wanting a TP Ted Cruz? How much do you think he would push your cause? Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #122
FFS... is there not a primary nominating process? kysrsoze Nov 2014 #196
Actually I was responding to peacebird, I did not mention the primary process. Thinkingabout Nov 2014 #212
Agree. To me that has always been obvious. n/t lamp_shade Nov 2014 #10
Reality shenmue Nov 2014 #11
Boo GeorgeGist Nov 2014 #12
Stating that Warren or Sanders cannot win is a defeatist attitude settling for Hillary is just that IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #13
+1 nt freedom fighter jh Nov 2014 #20
have you seen their polling? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #32
Don’t believe the hype! IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #36
that is NOT hype....they don't pull those numbers out their asses! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #37
OK You Win! You are now superior and I bow to the greatness of the highly IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #46
Good come down to the ground where reality lives! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #48
Your reality is a path to doom, enjoy, happy trails! IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #54
My path is not to be an idealist and lose ALL THREE branches in the next election.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #57
From where I am sitting if it were between Hillary and Bush we will be looking at IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #115
From where you are sitting that is utter horseshit.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #161
See http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=386992 IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #167
I have seen it..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #168
I never said anything about Bernie why do you try to put words in my mouth? IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #169
Polls are 100% meaningless this far out from the election. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #154
Bingo. Young voters feel hoodwinked by Obama, right or wrong, and will not mobilize for the same peacebird Nov 2014 #62
Warren isn't running, so that point is moot. Sanders can't win nationally, and even he knows it. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #98
It could be Carrot Top and Bozo the Clown Running IdiocracyTheNewNorm Nov 2014 #104
But but LiberalElite Nov 2014 #137
Nicely said. Thank you. I'm tired of settling for the establishment candidates kysrsoze Nov 2014 #198
ok; reality: ellennelle Nov 2014 #14
so you want to draw to an inside straight? VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #50
Not at all. Progressive IDEAS won in 14, and can win the presidency in 16 if we run a progressive peacebird Nov 2014 #65
Ideas don't run for president...Candidates do. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #67
Where is the data behind the pretty picture? peacebird Nov 2014 #82
Oh you want data? Here you go... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #83
My my my. She can answer correctly on an online game. I meant her actions/votes not her weasle words peacebird Nov 2014 #88
Uh no not just words....those were votes and speeches she has made....you know voting and speaking VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #89
Likes Puppies LawDeeDah Nov 2014 #158
Uh you need to go look at the site....you obviously do not know what you are talking about. VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #160
Completely unrecommended. Far left? What far left? There is no far left. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #15
No Bernie is the furthest Left of the group VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #33
Yes and the furthest left Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #49
Not in America....THAT is called reality! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #51
Wrong! Check the polls on the issues. Continually repeating it doesn't make it reality. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #170
Issues are not on the Primary Ballot.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #172
The recent election perfectly illustrates why issues are the answer. Enthusiast Nov 2014 #206
+1 Enthusiast Nov 2014 #171
2016 Obama - Biden Reformed Bully Nov 2014 #16
No one is running until a formal announcement Hari Seldon Nov 2014 #17
We need a new DNC chair. DFW Nov 2014 #18
I will only vote for a candidate that represents my interests. It's not HC. Tough S^%$. GoneFishin Nov 2014 #19
Maybe Ralph Nader will run and you will have a 3rd party vote leftofcool Nov 2014 #25
Pick scorpions or we'll get anthrax! nt truebluegreen Nov 2014 #29
Hillary and Cruz are not the only two possibilities in the universe. merrily Nov 2014 #75
Actually, Jill Stein is running for the Green party. HappyMe Nov 2014 #232
Hello Independent Voter! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #34
No you can vote for OUR choice....or not.....but you risk taking some blame for VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #59
Protest votes are wasted votes. Good luck with wasting your vote on some Nader-like loser. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #101
Reality is the following: ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #21
but we DO have polling numbers..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #35
Polling numbers mean squat, a year out. ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #41
NO they are the FACTS we have at the moment..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #44
They may be 'facts', but once again, they MEAN diddly squat. ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #47
Its the reality we have today.....YOU are into dreaming....and Idealist! That is what that means... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #52
I'm not dealing with reality, eh? ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #56
No you are not.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #96
I beg to differ. ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #105
begging gets you no where....the facts ARE she IS Progressive..... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #106
Who appointed you as the supreme judge of what is or is not reality? ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #116
no one but facts bear it out... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #126
No, they don't... ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #149
Yes they do.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #176
No, they don't... ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #204
the last election.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #175
Wrong again. ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #203
What facts aspirant Nov 2014 #174
Good, succinct post. Thanks. nt ladjf Nov 2014 #38
Thank you, and you're welcome. n/t ColesCountyDem Nov 2014 #43
+1 merrily Nov 2014 #81
Let's talk reality Robbins Nov 2014 #22
A simple look shows If she runs, she will lose Android3.14 Nov 2014 #23
The only Dems that will stay home if Hillary runs are on DU. leftofcool Nov 2014 #26
Keep telling yourself that. merrily Nov 2014 #87
Thoughtless comment from you Android3.14 Nov 2014 #141
I'm really confused watoos Nov 2014 #24
You need to stop thinking YOU are part of the majority of Americans....this thread is about reality VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #40
With all due respect Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #53
No they do not.....that is called reality....they wont vote for it.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #55
The last election told us nothing but Alittleliberal Nov 2014 #64
No the last election tells us that though people support Liberal or Progressive values... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #103
So you're saying we need to run someone who supports conservative values? Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #138
i am saying we need to run a candidate that VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #143
But you said people don't vote for liberal or progressive values at the ballot box. Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #151
No I did NOT fucking say that... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #162
Post #103 Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #213
She is NOT a fucking Conservative! VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #163
You can post that graphic all you want. Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #214
Here is why he may not. Let's use the example of Howard Dean. He had built an enthusiasm and still_one Nov 2014 #73
The idea that Bernie can win redstateblues Nov 2014 #109
You're shoveling sand against the tide trying to talk sense to the dreamers, here. MADem Nov 2014 #28
YUP!!!! +1000 VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #42
What Is 'Far Left' RadicalGeek Nov 2014 #30
believing in those things....and getting the Republicans out of the way to allow them to happen VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #39
But who defines 'Reality' RadicalGeek Nov 2014 #97
certainly not ideologues.... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #99
Comapred to whom RadicalGeek Nov 2014 #140
compared to all the other american candidates VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #142
So far RadicalGeek Nov 2014 #150
Who you got that polls ahead of ALL Republicans... VanillaRhapsody Nov 2014 #164
I will support without hesitation the Democratic nominee, and have no problem supporting Hillary, still_one Nov 2014 #45
Yet centrist have fucked up the Democratic party 4dsc Nov 2014 #63
The fact is that if Bernie runs as a Democrat, one would think that whoever has the most persuasive still_one Nov 2014 #80
"very well cause the election to be decided by the House"? A highly unlikely scenario, IMO. merrily Nov 2014 #114
I agree, I do not think it is a likely scenario. If Bernie runs, he will run as a Democrat, and still_one Nov 2014 #123
I don't know about about Bernie. He will run however he thinks he has the best chance. merrily Nov 2014 #124
No real disagreement with you thoughts, however, I think apathy was a huge reason. This was the still_one Nov 2014 #127
If the pundits are correct, the state level may be our only shot. merrily Nov 2014 #130
you are right. I don't think every state has absentee ballots, not sure though. still_one Nov 2014 #135
McGovern, Mondale, & Dukakis got clobbered. Clinton won. Case closed. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #218
your most happy with Hilliary obviously, but there are so many more Dems. RedstDem Nov 2014 #71
Why the constant need to push Hillary? djean111 Nov 2014 #72
I am sure some are sincere Third Wayers and some have economic or other incentives to push. merrily Nov 2014 #117
That would actually explain a lot of the grimly determined Hillary pushing. djean111 Nov 2014 #119
I don't they they give a shit if we're enthused as long as we vote. merrily Nov 2014 #144
Oh, yeah, I know what you mean......and like everyone else, djean111 Nov 2014 #146
The Clintonistas are baiting people into violating DU rules. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #156
How so? I am a Clinton supporter and I have baited no one. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #192
DU is infested with paid DLC shills. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #155
It looks like Hillary will be our nominee and it is going to take a long time for some to get hrmjustin Nov 2014 #77
I don't care, I'll just write them in. TheCowsCameHome Nov 2014 #78
Here is a tiny bit of reality. Half-Century Man Nov 2014 #102
Reality: lots of voters won't go to the polls for another corporate tool. polichick Nov 2014 #107
This is the absolute truth. The only thing that could save Hillary at the Nay Nov 2014 #133
Looks like the "left" and the "media" will team-up to... Mike Nelson Nov 2014 #108
More fear tactics Can't wait aspirant Nov 2014 #181
Joe Biden 2016 craigmatic Nov 2014 #111
The Democratic Party should endorse the Republican candidate. Then we'd win for sure!!! Scuba Nov 2014 #112
I voted for hillary before I'll vote for her again gwheezie Nov 2014 #113
That's fine. But I'm still not voting for Hillary. bigwillq Nov 2014 #118
The Dem will win my state, too, unless maybe Ike run agains again. merrily Nov 2014 #120
Oh goody, a protest vote to help the Republicans. I think that is entirely insane. But whatever. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #217
The DEM candidate will win CT with or without my vote. bigwillq Nov 2014 #219
Since when is onecaliberal Nov 2014 #128
Good luck with that meme corkhead Nov 2014 #129
Hillary = business as usual Warpy Nov 2014 #131
Why exactly can't Bernie win? Fearless Nov 2014 #134
Let the System Work. Blue Idaho Nov 2014 #136
Another Third Way post painting Traditional Democrats as "far left". n/t Kermitt Gribble Nov 2014 #139
+1000 noiretextatique Nov 2014 #190
"Much as some here would like the nation to be on the far left, it isn't" demwing Nov 2014 #145
Did you copy-n-paste this from 2006? (nt) jeff47 Nov 2014 #147
You know how delusional the Left has become when they propose Sanders as a Democratic nominee. Beacool Nov 2014 #148
Seattle elected a socialist,what does that say about the trend of the country? aspirant Nov 2014 #185
You are comparing Seattle to the rest of the nation? Beacool Nov 2014 #223
Who's relevant? aspirant Nov 2014 #227
The Establishment Bubble is not reality. Odin2005 Nov 2014 #153
Shrug. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Nov 2014 #157
Reality is Hillary does not connect well with people, Joe Turner Nov 2014 #159
Are you concerned that Hillary's economic plan Htom Sirveaux Nov 2014 #165
Here's our problem jmowreader Nov 2014 #166
If Bernie Sanders runs, it is highly likely Ilsa Nov 2014 #177
And it is highly likely he won't come close to winning the nomination.We need to support the NOMINEE RBInMaine Nov 2014 #207
I'll probably vote for the nominee. But Ilsa Nov 2014 #209
no one sees a problem when half our party doesnt like Hillary? TheFarseer Nov 2014 #179
The right path aspirant Nov 2014 #187
I dont claim to know any percentages TheFarseer Nov 2014 #195
Prove the "half our Party doesn't like Hillary" argument brooklynite Nov 2014 #211
Obama shocked the world in 2008. In 2007 it was all Hillary and he was running third behind Edwards. Zen Democrat Nov 2014 #186
Why is it so important that everyone agree on a nominee before the primaries even START? Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #188
Not easy being a Clinton supporter on this site. hrmjustin Nov 2014 #193
Defeatist nonsense. Maedhros Nov 2014 #194
When people talk about Warren or Sanders running... Zenlitened Nov 2014 #200
You have just said that your "reality" is a "dream." Case closed. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #216
"What now is real..." Zenlitened Nov 2014 #224
Not gonna happen with my help. I cannot make it any clearer. nt silvershadow Nov 2014 #201
The reason people talk so much of reality DonCoquixote Nov 2014 #202
The middle class is screwed no matter CentralMass Nov 2014 #205
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Nov 2014 #208
How did yours work with McGovern, Mondale, Dukakis, Nader, and Kucinich? RBInMaine Nov 2014 #220
Anyone but Hillary. Someone will run against her, in the primary, and I will support them. (nt) w4rma Nov 2014 #215
Right now no one stands a chance against her. We need to support the nominee. RBInMaine Nov 2014 #221
Reality: right now THERE IS NO NOMINEE. Zenlitened Nov 2014 #225
The nominee? HappyMe Nov 2014 #231
So basically, this country is over and we're doomed to moving ever rightward. PeteSelman Nov 2014 #228
I think the OP is pretty accurate. WhoWoodaKnew Nov 2014 #229
Ok then, apparently we are hosed. quaker bill Nov 2014 #238
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