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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Is it time for Senator Clinton, for the sake of unity, to concede? [View all]Gothmog
(145,894 posts)155. Democrats would be insane to nominate Sanders
Dana Milbank has some good comments on general election match up polls https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-would-be-insane-to-nominate-bernie-sanders/2016/01/26/0590e624-c472-11e5-a4aa-f25866ba0dc6_story.html?hpid=hp_opinions-for-wide-side_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Sanders and his supporters boast of polls showing him, on average, matching up slightly better against Trump than Clinton does. But those matchups are misleading: Opponents have been attacking and defining Clinton for a quarter- century, but nobody has really gone to work yet on demonizing Sanders.
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Watching Sanders at Monday nights Democratic presidential forum in Des Moines, I imagined how Trump or another Republican nominee would disembowel the relatively unknown Vermonter.
The first questioner from the audience asked Sanders to explain why he embraces the socialist label and requested that Sanders define it so that it doesnt concern the rest of us citizens.
Sanders, explaining that much of what he proposes is happening in Scandinavia and Germany (a concept that itself alarms Americans who dont want to be like socialized Europe), answered vaguely: Creating a government that works for all of us, not just a handful of people on the top thats my definition of democratic socialism.
But thats not how Republicans will define socialism and theyll have the dictionary on their side. Theyll portray Sanders as one who wants the government to own and control major industries and the means of production and distribution of goods. Theyll say he wants to take away private property. That wouldnt be fair, but it would be easy. Socialists dont win national elections in the United States .
Sanders on Monday night also admitted he would seek massive tax increases one of the biggest tax hikes in history, as moderator Chris Cuomo put it to expand Medicare to all. Sanders, this time making a comparison with Britain and France, allowed that hypothetically, youre going to pay $5,000 more in taxes, and declared, W e will raise taxes, yes we will. He said this would be offset by lower health-insurance premiums and protested that its demagogic to say, oh, youre paying more in taxes.
Well, yes and Trump is a demagogue.
Sanders also made clear he would be happy to identify Democrats as the party of big government and of wealth redistribution. When Cuomo said Sanders seemed to be saying he would grow government bigger than ever, Sanders didnt quarrel, saying, P eople want to criticize me, okay, and F ine, if thats the criticism, I accept it.
Sanders accepts it, but are Democrats ready to accept ownership of socialism, massive tax increases and a dramatic expansion of government? If so, they will lose.
Match up polls are worthless because these polls do not measure what would happen to Sanders in a general election where Sanders is very vulnerable to negative ads.
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Is it time for Senator Clinton, for the sake of unity, to concede? [View all]
Warren Stupidity
Apr 2016
OP
I would say she is done as far as the General election, she can still limp to victory in
Dustlawyer
Apr 2016
#105
No Hillery should use her every resource to protect us from "dirty cop" FBI agents...
Jeffersons Ghost
Apr 2016
#56
Sorry, it's Bernie supporters who are moving the goalposts with threads like this
anigbrowl
Apr 2016
#144
Just because a lot of people think it doesn't mean we'll figure out a way to suppress a vote!
Joob
Apr 2016
#9
For the sake of the Party... she's under investigation for serious offenses, after all.
AzDar
Apr 2016
#10
I like Star Trek too, although I haven't watched an episode in a really long time.
StevieM
Apr 2016
#27
Some think that Sanders is not talking out his backside and has a chance to fulfill his agenda.
Beacool
Apr 2016
#161
Hillary is a true patriot and a champion of the poor, she will quit for the good of the country !!!
Impedimentus
Apr 2016
#16
If Bernie wins the nomination then of course Hillary will do the right thing and support him.
StevieM
Apr 2016
#26
Look, I'm not thrilled with the tactics she has used against us, but this doesn't help Bernie.
Ken Burch
Apr 2016
#20
Kinda like all those in the MSM calling for Obama to be more conciliatory to the Republicans
pdsimdars
Apr 2016
#138
LOL, only on DU is the front runner, who is ahead by over 200 delegates called on to concede
StevieM
Apr 2016
#24
In fairness, your candidate essentially refused to recognize Obama as the frontrunner in '08.
Ken Burch
Apr 2016
#34
I voted: "DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided" ...
1StrongBlackMan
Apr 2016
#30
I'm sure you didn't get the hilarity of suggestion that the candidate ...
1StrongBlackMan
Apr 2016
#49
The relentless smug comments from you Hillary people is why she's losing
hellofromreddit
Apr 2016
#48
At the very least her campaign should fix its "tone", stop attacking Sanders and his supporters
Warren DeMontague
Apr 2016
#50
She didn't lose 7 of the last 8 PRIMARIES. Educate yourself please before you post.
beaglelover
Apr 2016
#67
Primaries do not equal caucuses.......Jesus Christ some people are really uneducated on this site.
beaglelover
Apr 2016
#106
Facts don't matter when you are trying to create hype for a failing venture.
liberal N proud
Apr 2016
#163
No, obviously not. They live in LA LA land and ride unicorns with rainbows shooting out of their
beaglelover
Apr 2016
#107
Yes, she and her supporters need to stop using RW tactics that will only aid the GOP in the fall.
vintx
Apr 2016
#102
Well, the only other Democrat she could concede to is Martin O'Malley. Bernie Sanders is I-VT
Algernon Moncrieff
Apr 2016
#119
The funniest part is not the poll, but the almost 200 votes it got on the first option.
Beacool
Apr 2016
#158