Atheism outside the US - First hand perspectives invited

[dmallind]

I think many US-based folks, believers and none, who have not had the luxury of long first hand exposure to other countries, have a bit of a blinkered view of how atheism is perceived, how it operates, even how it is defined in other countries. I can only speak with much authority on one other country, unfortunately the one least mysterious to the majority of US DUers, Britain. I grew up there, have friends and family there, and keep up with news and entertainment shows (not out of jingoisyic nostalgia - just like a lot of their shows better than American ones - QI wouldn't last an episode here). But I'll start with that one and encourage other DUers with first-hand experience (beyond a vacation or two) to respond in kind for other countries. I am even curious about Canada. Been there quite a few times, but only to urban centers and not for very long. What IS it like for atheists in Saskatoon? Darwin? Hong Kong? Cork? Wellington? Mumbai? Teheran?

ATHEISM IN BRITAIN

INCIDENCE: Much larger than in the US - surveys usually come in around 40% nonbeliever

POLITICAL STRUGGLES: Negligible on either side. There are a few fundy groups about abortion and gay rights, but at nuisance level at worst. Similarly there is no move worth speaking of to remove religion from state schools (I had RE to age 15, and hymns/prayers are daily routines in almost all schools) or clergy from civic payrolls. Islam is a bit more problematic, but "separate but equal" schools and voluntary, within UK legal limits, Islamic adjudication options manage the tension fairly well

DEFINITION: The US fundy-derived idea that atheism necessarily includes a positive belief in the absence of gods is not much in evidence. The standard definition outside zealous opponents of atheism is the traditional philosophical one of lacking belief being the sine qua non, with certainty of disbelief very much a minority optional extra.

PUBLIC PERCEPTION: Casual acceptance on both sides. I would never have bothered with organized atheism there - and seen no point. Even though not a majority, atheism is generally seen as the expected cultural default as well as the intellectual default. When personal belief is discussed or discovered, positive theism is seen somewhat akin to being able to play the piano, or having a foreign parent. Nothing wonderful or terrible either, but worth noting as a distinguishing characteristic and passing curiosity.

Public expressions of disbelief likewise are neither shocking nor "cool" - people discuss their atheism like their taste in wine. It's something they may care a little or a lot about; something that may color other opinions, but nothing that is intended to define them as people or cause a stir.

In this context, Dawkins' criticism of religion is noteworthy not because of its controversial or original nature (it has neither in the UK) but because he obviously cares about it more than most and does see it as a big deal. The average UK atheist is indeed likely to agree with Sir Richard that religion is a bunch of crap - he's just not likely to see it as more important than thinking, say, grand opera is a bunch of crap; Dawkins obviously does. This attitude (not opinion!) also holds for the majority of religious Britons. They no more care that atheists think they are full of crap than opera fans care about the opinion of their detractors. "De gustibus and all that" seems to be the stance for most on both sides.

SOCIAL IMPACT: As can be imagined, little. Dawkins et al sell well because they write well and because Britons enjoy a righteous rant. He has spent a lot of time in the US so he rails much against what few Brits really understand in reverse - and the nature of his ranting would draw little controversy in the UK even if they did have the same exposure. It would simply be taken for granted that teaching creationism as science is asinine, and that gynecology is a secular subject. Atheism isn't much of a "cause" in Britain because it doesn't need to be. They have religious trappings there that even few Southerrn Baptist preachers would dare wish for here, but they never get beyond trappings. Religion stays for the most part as something kids study for 80 minutes a week and old biddies sing about for 80 minutes on Sundays.

SUMMARY: Ironically, British atheism then becomes what many US believers wish it were here - a casual apathetic idea that doesn't kick up a fuss much. The rub is that to get atheism like that, you have to have religion like that first.