Israel/Palestine

shaayecanaan

(6,068 posts)

111. JPS didn't type the letter

Thu Apr 4, 2013, 08:15 PM

Apr 2013

Last edited Thu Apr 4, 2013, 09:01 PM - Edit history (1)

as you can see, it is rendered in quite an old typeface.

The typewritten letter was produced by Ben-Gurion for a published version of his letters.

http://www.baumanrarebooks.com/rare-books/ben-gurion-david/letters-to-paula/56682.aspx

There is no evidence that the redactions in the letter were made by anyone else other than Ben-Gurion himself. I will admit that they are an important aspect of the letter. If anything they keenly show how Ben-Gurion vacillated between being an idealist and a realist.

But the fact that Ben-Gurion published the letter himself in the same terms as JPS has translated it means that the redactions are his and he intended the letter to be read as it is ultimately written.

Edit to add: an interesting discussion of the letter here (after para 25):-

http://bcrfj.revues.org/3552?&id=3552

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182 replies

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Highlight:

Opinion: BDS — a new name for an old tactic [View all] King_David Apr 2013 OP

Old Tactic. Same old goal. aranthus Apr 2013 #1

BDS is anti-Jewish or antisemitic in the exact same manner that the BDS campaign against S Africa azurnoir Apr 2013 #2

Where the author is coming from, politically speaking. Yea, she's all about peace, uh, piece that is Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #3

I thought the equation of BDS to Nazism azurnoir Apr 2013 #8

Nutty hardliner, she has no problem ignoring the law..what else is new? n/t Jefferson23 Apr 2013 #28

Well, we're all Nazis really, under the skin, anybody that disagrees ... bemildred Apr 2013 #29

heh ya got me azurnoir Apr 2013 #32

Yep, me too. I don't doubt it for a minute. nt bemildred Apr 2013 #39

First to shout "Nazi!" loses the debate. The anti-BDS crowd never wrapped their heads around that. leveymg Apr 2013 #103

Bull. aranthus Apr 2013 #6

No it has not been "demonstrated to me " in fact the opposite azurnoir Apr 2013 #7

Of course it has. aranthus Apr 2013 #9

what has been demonstrated to me is that 'ProIsrael' posters here fear nonviolent resistance azurnoir Apr 2013 #10

You're denying. aranthus Apr 2013 #12

that depends does Israel have the right to maintain its Jewish character? azurnoir Apr 2013 #13

You are buying into a falsehood. aranthus Apr 2013 #18

lol switching goalposts okay I'll play azurnoir Apr 2013 #19

So your answer is no. aranthus Apr 2013 #25

except in the case of Israel over 1,000,00 of those 'different' people are citizens azurnoir Apr 2013 #33

I wholeheartedly agree shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #58

Fear BDS? leftynyc Apr 2013 #59

are you Israeli? azurnoir Apr 2013 #63

It's an abject failure, but the reason to oppose BDS..... shira Apr 2013 #71

Only the BDS supporters are yammering leftynyc Apr 2013 #74

Do go on. Tell us all about it. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #78

again why "we" are you Israeli otherwise your original comment makes no sense azurnoir Apr 2013 #79

You're in denial. Abbas admits RoR means the end of Israel.... shira Apr 2013 #34

and who claims 5 million refugees will want to go to what is a hostile foreign country? azurnoir Apr 2013 #35

BDS wants it. If Israel honors RoR, it's saying.... shira Apr 2013 #36

IMO as long as there is a viable Palestinian state that is where most Palestinians will go azurnoir Apr 2013 #37

Still can't admit the lies associated with BDS? N/T shira Apr 2013 #38

IMO there's nothing to admit azurnoir Apr 2013 #40

Working towards the end of Israel (Abbas admits it) with so many lies..... shira Apr 2013 #41

ya I remember that trainwreck of a thread azurnoir Apr 2013 #43

Really? You think no one will die via the BDS version of 1-state? shira Apr 2013 #45

so much BS azurnoir Apr 2013 #47

yeah, bs from you... shira Apr 2013 #60

are you confused? Hamas is pushing fundimental Islam not the PLO azurnoir Apr 2013 #80

The PLO still claims a future Palestine will be governed according to sharia. n/t shira Apr 2013 #95

and I felt this deserved it's comment azurnoir Apr 2013 #81

So u want me to post b/c u don't believe the PLO rants about destroying Israel.... shira Apr 2013 #96

Nope that's not why nor is it so I can alert it and I would request that no one does either n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #97

So if you know it happens & it's true, why do u want me to post proof of it? n/t shira Apr 2013 #100

I said I want ed you to post it if you wish azurnoir Apr 2013 #101

really? pelsar Apr 2013 #50

then tell us all about how Israel has treated African refugees azurnoir Apr 2013 #51

you shouldnt be sure.... pelsar Apr 2013 #52

well then give us the real facts okay azurnoir Apr 2013 #53

why pelsar Apr 2013 #54

well if you are so sure I am wrong then prove it azurnoir Apr 2013 #55

ah so you were playing games? well here's a few facts for you azurnoir Apr 2013 #56

yep i was just playing with you as per your rules... pelsar Apr 2013 #126

But as per the links I posted I am sure azurnoir Apr 2013 #127

too late... you already admitted it pelsar Apr 2013 #128

not really I was hoping you would be able to show us different but apparently not azurnoir Apr 2013 #129

you have your ideology.... pelsar Apr 2013 #130

Ideology interesting I never really thought of it like that azurnoir Apr 2013 #133

what now?...nothing, at least as far as i can see... pelsar Apr 2013 #134

but what about Israel's future? azurnoir Apr 2013 #135

if the occupation lasts... pelsar Apr 2013 #136

thank you and I agree with most of what you said azurnoir Apr 2013 #137

bibi is temporary.... pelsar Apr 2013 #138

well Bibi is the least of it right now azurnoir Apr 2013 #139

....look at it from this point of view pelsar Apr 2013 #140

Bullshit. What Israel does isn't racist/apartheid like SA.... shira Apr 2013 #11

Israel maintains 2 different standards of legality in it's occupied territories azurnoir Apr 2013 #15

BDS lies about Israel, saying apartheid is practiced within Israel... shira Apr 2013 #16

Because discrimination does exist within Israel like the Nakba law azurnoir Apr 2013 #17

I see the problem. aranthus Apr 2013 #20

Nope here from your own link azurnoir Apr 2013 #21

So are gays a race or a caste? aranthus Apr 2013 #23

No it says race caste ect Gays are a discriminated against group azurnoir Apr 2013 #24

Exept that by your definition everwhere is apartheid. aranthus Apr 2013 #26

only when certain groups are singled out by law azurnoir Apr 2013 #27

That's everywhere. aranthus Apr 2013 #30

you can expand when the discrimination is codified in law azurnoir Apr 2013 #31

So then... Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #144

That's been my point. aranthus Apr 2013 #146

are US states that have laws against Gay Marriage committing apartheid? yes or no? azurnoir Apr 2013 #147

No. n/t aranthus Apr 2013 #148

I asked 2 questions is it apartheid or mere discrimination? n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #149

What do you mean by, "mere discrimination?" n/t aranthus Apr 2013 #150

discrimination vs apartheid azurnoir Apr 2013 #151

That doesn't clear things up, but I will try to. aranthus Apr 2013 #177

and IMO this is insulting to the LGBT population of the US azurnoir Apr 2013 #178

You are entitled to your opinion, of course. aranthus Apr 2013 #179

what is illogical about it? azurnoir Apr 2013 #180

mere discrimination? Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #152

are the laws that preventt Gay from Marrying in the US a form of apartheid yes or no n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #158

As I said earlier... Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #159

so no not in your opinion thank you azurnoir Apr 2013 #160

So then Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #161

how does the marriage law keep gay people apart from straights? azurnoir Apr 2013 #163

How is that apart? Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #165

well if you think so but I disagree n/t azurnoir Apr 2013 #168

What about affirmative action? Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #162

only if you consider it discrimination azurnoir Apr 2013 #164

Well Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #166

if it does so it's as compensation for past and present discrimination(s) azurnoir Apr 2013 #167

I know what it's for. Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #169

" this system mostly works to aid wealthy minorities. It primarily hurts the white poor." azurnoir Apr 2013 #170

That sounds sort of like an accusation. Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #181

They are not np Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #156

An "old tactic" that seems to work in the long run. Challenger1 Apr 2013 #4

It's wrong, not necessarily ineffective. aranthus Apr 2013 #5

Look elsewhere? Challenger1 Apr 2013 #14

BDS is fraudulent because aranthus Apr 2013 #22

The establishment of Israel could not be achieved without violence... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #42

That isn't true. aranthus Apr 2013 #44

Its perfectly true... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #46

NO, there is a huge difference between wanting some and wanting it all. aranthus Apr 2013 #48

Give me half of your house then... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #57

Going back to the 1920's, when Jordan was created.... shira Apr 2013 #61

But of course, comrade... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #62

No false quotes, please. Ben Gurion's letter in 1937 stated the following: shira Apr 2013 #64

The quote is perfectly authentic shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #68

No, it's not. It's a lie. A fabrication you completely accept.... shira Apr 2013 #69

Yes it fucking is. I've linked to the original document... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #73

Might want to consider who you are speaking/writing with before asking such an obvious question n/t Bodhi BloodWave Apr 2013 #76

JPS admitted to CAMERA they erred.... shira Apr 2013 #94

JPS didn't type the letter shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #111

Oh, Ben Gurion vascillated b/w peace/cooperation w/ Arabs... shira Apr 2013 #113

the correct spelling is "vacillated" shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #114

The JPS translation of that typed letter contains fabrications.... shira Apr 2013 #118

Thanks, that was an interesting read. I've saved a copy. nt delrem Apr 2013 #106

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #84

Really poor analogy. aranthus Apr 2013 #82

Take a number and get in line... shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #102

Somewhat off-topic b/c it's based on your religion.... shira Apr 2013 #110

Nothing shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #112

Oh, I didn't know that (Roman Catholic Church). Jewish leaders praised.... shira Apr 2013 #115

As far as I know aranthus Apr 2013 #120

The homeland of the Phoenecians shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #125

Poor analogy Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #153

"It was never the Palestinians house to start." shaayecanaan Apr 2013 #154

Really? Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #155

BDS is fraudulent because...really? Challenger1 Apr 2013 #67

It's not about rights when that 1-state would be a totalitarian, theocratic Islamist nation.... shira Apr 2013 #70

As opposed to.... Challenger1 Apr 2013 #75

As opposed to 2 states, which the Palestinians have rejected since 1937. shira Apr 2013 #87

Tell it! Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #157

Hitler! Nazis! Holocaust! ???? BDS isn't that. delrem Apr 2013 #49

BWAHAHAHA! shira Apr 2013 #65

HITLER! NAZIS!! THE HOLOCAUST!!! AAAUUUUGGHHHH! delrem Apr 2013 #83

There were no refugees or calls for RoR prior to 1937 or 1947.... shira Apr 2013 #88

Because HITLER? Yes! NAZIS? Yes! nt delrem Apr 2013 #92

You didn't answer b/c u know you're full of shit. shira Apr 2013 #98

Yes, shira, your Hitler! Nazis! totally explains it. What more needs be said? nt delrem Apr 2013 #105

Well then, stop BS'ing that it's all about occupation, settlements, refugees.... shira Apr 2013 #108

Hitler and the Nazis, singing "I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts" delrem Apr 2013 #109

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #85

Being a Jew is an ethnic group. Consider atheist Jews. shira Apr 2013 #89

Post removed Post removed Apr 2013 #131

Wow. How loathsome. cali Apr 2013 #66

BDS is for the destruction of Israel & denial of the Jewish right to self-determination shira Apr 2013 #72

"Jewish right to self-determination" R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #77

Ask yourself why the Palestinians rejected 2 states in 1937 & 1947.... shira Apr 2013 #90

Because they wanted to be ethnically cleansed? nt delrem Apr 2013 #93

Still waiting for a real answer to that. Be honest w/ yourself. n/t shira Apr 2013 #99

Be honest w/ yourself. n/t delrem Apr 2013 #104

Fail. Yet another deflection. n/t shira Apr 2013 #107

You're just anti-coconut. nt delrem Apr 2013 #117

Perhaps anti-coco but pro-nut? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #124

trollonut? delrem Apr 2013 #141

Either you don't get it or you don't want to get it.... shira Apr 2013 #142

You may be "recent contributor", but it souds like you hit the nail on the head. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #143

Better yet. How about this? R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #116

You're veering off course on another rabbit trail. I'm not playing along... shira Apr 2013 #119

It's not a rabbit trail, Shira. It's just that you are a poltroon when it comes to the simple truth. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #121

Do you think Israel has any claim to the Western Wall or the Jewish Quarter.... shira Apr 2013 #122

I really don't give a hot bunies crap if it bothers you, Shira. R. Daneel Olivaw Apr 2013 #123

Simple truths are for simple minds. Shaktimaan Apr 2013 #145

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #86

S.African blacks didn't make threats to annhilate the whites.... shira Apr 2013 #91

Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2013 #132

so are you saying that South African Blacks were totally non-violent azurnoir Apr 2013 #174

No. You should read what I wrote. n/t shira Apr 2013 #175

I did that's why I asked and oh BTW when it comes to annilhilating Whites in South Africa azurnoir Apr 2013 #176

Bds is for the best. bravenak Apr 2013 #171

So Palistinian business suffered because of your personal BDS, King_David Apr 2013 #172

No. bravenak Apr 2013 #173

Godwin's Law evoked in the 6th word of this ridiculous piece! A new record! *nt Alamuti Lotus Apr 2013 #182