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bemildred

(90,061 posts)
39. Here is the argument I'm making:
Fri Apr 6, 2012, 03:12 PM
Apr 2012


Lewontin's argument and criticism

In 1972 Richard Lewontin performed a FST statistical analysis using 17 markers including blood group proteins. His results were that the majority of genetic differences between humans, 85.4%, were found within a population, 8.3% of genetic differences were found between populations within a race, and only 6.3% was found to differentiate races which in the study were Caucasian, African, Mongoloid, South Asian Aborigines, Amerinds, Oceanians, and Australian Aborigines. Since then, other analyses have found FST values of 6%-10% between continental human groups, 5-15% between different populations occupying the same continent, and 75-85% within populations.[23][24][25][26] Lewontin's argument led a number of authors publishing in the 1990s and 2000s to follow Lewontin's verdict that race is biologically a meaningless concept.

While acknowledging the correctness of Lewontin's observation that racial groups are genetically homogeneous, geneticist A. W. F. Edwards in the paper "Human Genetic Diversity: Lewontin's Fallacy" (2003) argued that the conclusion that racial groups can not be genetically distinguished from each other is incorrect. Edwards argued that when multiple allelles are taken into account genetic differences do tend to cluster in geographic patterns roughly corresponding to the groups commonly defined as races. This is because most of the information that distinguishes populations from each other is hidden in the correlation structure of allele frequencies, making it possible to highly reliably classify individuals using the mathematical techniques described above. Edwards argued that, even if the probability of misclassifying an individual based on a single genetic marker is as high as 30% (as Lewontin reported in 1972), the misclassification probability becomes close to zero if enough genetic markers are studied simultaneously. Edwards saw Lewontin's argument as being based mostly in a political stance that denies the existence biological difference in order to argue for social equality. [4]

Richard Dawkins (2005) agreed with Edwards' view, summarizing the argument against Lewontin as being, "However small the racial partition of the total variation may be, if such racial characteristics as there are highly correlate with other racial characteristics, they are by definition informative, and therefore of taxonomic significance."[27]

Alan Templeton (2003) argued that in the nonhuman literature an FST of at least 25%-30% is a standard criterion for the identification of a subspecies.[24] John Goodrum has noted that Templeton incorrectly cited this figure from a 1997 article from Herpetological Review entitled “Subspecies and Classification".[28] The authors of that paper do not refer to Fst values. They are referring the 75 percent rule for subspecies.[29]

Henry Harpending (2002) has argued that the magnitude of human FST values imply that "kinship between two individuals of the same human population is equivalent to kinship between grandparent and grandchild or between half siblings. The widespread assertion that this is small and insignificant should be reexamined." [30]

Sarich and Miele (2004) have argued that estimates of genetic difference between individuals of different populations fail to take into account human diploidity. "The point is that we are diploid organisms, getting one set of chromosomes from one parent and a second from the other. To the extent that your mother and father are not especially closely related, then, those two sets of chromosomes will come close to being a random sample of the chromosomes in your population. And the sets present in some randomly chosen member of yours will also be about as different from your two sets as they are from one another. So how much of the variability will be distributed where? First is the 15 percent that is interpopulational. The other 85 percent will then split half and half (42.5 percent) between the intra- and interindividual within-population comparisons. The increase in variability in between-population comparisons is thus 15 percent against the 42.5 percent that is between-individual within-population. Thus, 15/42.5 is 32.5 percent, a much more impressive and, more important, more legitimate value than 15 percent."[31]

Anthropologists such as C. Loring Brace[32] and Jonathan Kaplan[33] and geneticist Joseph Graves,[34] have argued that while there it is certainly possible to find biological and genetic variation that corresponds roughly to the groupings normally defined as races, this is true for almost all geographically distinct populations. The cluster structure of the genetic data is therefore dependent on the initial hypotheses of the researcher and the populations sampled. When one samples continental groups the clusters become continental, if one had chosen other sampling patterns the clusters would be different. Weiss and Fullerton have noted that if one sampled only Icelanders, Mayans and Maoris, three distinct clusters would form and all other populations could be described as being composed of admixtures of Maori, Icelandic and Mayan genetic materials.[35] Kaplan therefore argues that seen in this way both Lewontin and Edwards are right in their arguments. He concludes that while racial groups are characterized by different allele frequencies, this does not mean that racial classification is a natural taxonomy of the human species, because multiple other genetic patterns can be found in human populations that crosscut racial distinctions. In this view racial groupings are social constructions that also have biological reality which is largely an artefact of how the category has been constructed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics#Race_and_population_genetic_structure

Who are Blacks? The Rugby Team? HipChick Apr 2012 #1
Ask the AP. They wrote the headline. Iris Apr 2012 #2
In the UK dipsydoodle Apr 2012 #3
It's probably the best term to use muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #5
"African-American" is not a synonym for "black". Spider Jerusalem Apr 2012 #6
Not all Black people live in America via Africa HotRodTuna Apr 2012 #8
Interesting. Nt xchrom Apr 2012 #4
Sex With Neanderthals: The Ultimate Immunity Boost FarCenter Apr 2012 #7
All the more reason for young people to get the HPV vaccine NickB79 Apr 2012 #9
You may want to read more before you sign your kid up for the vaccine. davsand Apr 2012 #10
I have read extensively about the HPV vaccine NickB79 Apr 2012 #11
Did you bother to READ those articles or did you dismiss them out of hand? davsand Apr 2012 #12
Relying on VAERS, are we? Watch out you don't turn into the Incredible Hulk NickB79 Apr 2012 #43
Blacks should be cautious about calls for mass inoculations. MD20 Apr 2012 #13
Technically, there are no "pure" white or black genes... antigone382 Apr 2012 #21
Race is horseshit, and therefore racial correlations are horseshit too. bemildred Apr 2012 #14
Ever heard of a caucasian getting sickle cell anemia? Beacool Apr 2012 #15
"Caucasian" is also horseshit. bemildred Apr 2012 #16
I'm not going to argue. Beacool Apr 2012 #18
OK. nt bemildred Apr 2012 #24
Look, it's like thinking if a dog has brown hair, then you know something about it's metabolism. bemildred Apr 2012 #17
If those genetic markers were not evenly distributed in all types of dogs hack89 Apr 2012 #20
Yeah, I know about that, but those are just statistical correlations. bemildred Apr 2012 #22
If I was a public health official hack89 Apr 2012 #27
The problem is that populations don't develop diseases. bemildred Apr 2012 #30
Multifactorial polygenic diseases hack89 Apr 2012 #32
Which still happens only to individuals. bemildred Apr 2012 #33
But two individuals from seperate groups may require different treatments for the same disease. hack89 Apr 2012 #35
I really think we have wrung all the juice out of this for the moment. bemildred Apr 2012 #38
Just think in terms of genetic groups and it is less of an issue. hack89 Apr 2012 #40
That's really all I'm saying, just leave race out of it. bemildred Apr 2012 #41
A very rational position... rayofreason Apr 2012 #42
Genetics determines lots of things. bemildred Apr 2012 #34
Yes they do. hack89 Apr 2012 #36
Here is the argument I'm making: bemildred Apr 2012 #39
Humans are divided into numerous distinct genetic groups called haplogroups. hack89 Apr 2012 #19
Right, and we've been mixing them all together rapidly for the last 500 years. bemildred Apr 2012 #23
Wrong hack89 Apr 2012 #25
A couple of centuries HAVE undone millions of years of evolution already. bemildred Apr 2012 #26
Except genetically halogroups are still there hack89 Apr 2012 #28
There is no evidence that any of those events have impacted the human genome. nt hack89 Apr 2012 #29
Right. bemildred Apr 2012 #31
I wouldn't say millions of years, more like about 100 to 50 thousand years ago when humans... Humanist_Activist Apr 2012 #37
Interesting thread. After a review I tend to agree with Liber-AL Apr 2012 #44
Hey. bemildred Apr 2012 #45
YW Liber-AL Apr 2012 #46
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