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In reply to the discussion: Vindman calls for Milley's resignation: 'He usurped civilian authority' [View all]
Having the authority doesn't confer "rightness" or "lawfulness" to an act.
You're repeating a failed highschool civics understanding of military authority. There is no constitutional definition of what a "declaration of war" looks like. There is no magical formula that Congress must hold hands and chant "one two three four... we declare there is a war". If Congress delegates powers to the President regarding the use of military force, the constitutional requirement is satisfied. That didnt happen suddenly with Trump - it happened many decades ago and Milley isnt a Supreme Court justice who gets to evaluate the constitutionality of a presidents potential actions.
The Chairman of the JCS would likely be the recipient of orders by the president authorizing nuclear attack
Flat wrong. That hasn't been the case for about 35 years. The Chairman serves in an advisory role, but command authority flows from the president through the SecDef to the heads of the various combatant commands. The Joint Chiefs are not in executive/command positions.
Remember that Trump had key appointees in the top civilian leadership positions at the Pentagon- they were not confirmed by the Senate and they were Trump loyalists.
Milley's first call was last October. At that time, Mark Esper was SecDef and had been confirmed by a 90-8 vote a year earlier. The election had not yet been lost. Yet even were all of that wrong, it still wouldn't give Milley the authority to evaluate whether an acting SecDef could be cut out of the chain and replaced by someone who statutorily was not in it. Nor would it give him the authority to evaluate a president's sanity beyond his personal responsibility to ignore illegal orders. The 25th Amendment sets up a process for dealing with a crazy President. A cabinet's hypothetical failure to act on that authority does not give some senior military officer the ability to act.
You're repeating a failed highschool civics understanding of military authority. There is no constitutional definition of what a "declaration of war" looks like. There is no magical formula that Congress must hold hands and chant "one two three four... we declare there is a war". If Congress delegates powers to the President regarding the use of military force, the constitutional requirement is satisfied. That didnt happen suddenly with Trump - it happened many decades ago and Milley isnt a Supreme Court justice who gets to evaluate the constitutionality of a presidents potential actions.
The Chairman of the JCS would likely be the recipient of orders by the president authorizing nuclear attack
Flat wrong. That hasn't been the case for about 35 years. The Chairman serves in an advisory role, but command authority flows from the president through the SecDef to the heads of the various combatant commands. The Joint Chiefs are not in executive/command positions.
Remember that Trump had key appointees in the top civilian leadership positions at the Pentagon- they were not confirmed by the Senate and they were Trump loyalists.
Milley's first call was last October. At that time, Mark Esper was SecDef and had been confirmed by a 90-8 vote a year earlier. The election had not yet been lost. Yet even were all of that wrong, it still wouldn't give Milley the authority to evaluate whether an acting SecDef could be cut out of the chain and replaced by someone who statutorily was not in it. Nor would it give him the authority to evaluate a president's sanity beyond his personal responsibility to ignore illegal orders. The 25th Amendment sets up a process for dealing with a crazy President. A cabinet's hypothetical failure to act on that authority does not give some senior military officer the ability to act.
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Vindman calls for Milley's resignation: 'He usurped civilian authority' [View all]
Calista241
Sep 2021
OP
Vindman is correct, Milley did a good thing in a bad precedent. Milley needs to resign.
marble falls
Sep 2021
#4
No, Milley should be given a medal, he not only saved the country but the World.
Escurumbele
Sep 2021
#11
He circumvented law. I'm glad he did it. But I do not want military leader circumventing ...
marble falls
Sep 2021
#21
"I'd like to hear how he justified what he did."...He needed to save the country and the World?
Escurumbele
Sep 2021
#25
I AGREE WITH YOU. Trump THE ANTI CHRIST. You get rid of evil at ANY opportunity
Trueblue1968
Sep 2021
#182
Subordinates have the right to refuse an illegal order, but Milley has no right to stop them
Beastly Boy
Sep 2021
#115
Right or duty, Milley has no right to demand circumvention of chain of command
Beastly Boy
Sep 2021
#158
Did you ever hear about the Battle of Copenhagen during the Napoleonic Wars?
Fortinbras Armstrong
Sep 2021
#173
That's the oath for enlisted personnel. Officers take a different oath.
mahatmakanejeeves
Sep 2021
#138
Miley quite possibly circumvented an unlawful POTUS order from being carried out.
hadEnuf
Sep 2021
#75
No, that would set a bad precedent. Miley did the right thing...Trump should have been out
Demsrule86
Sep 2021
#107
I agree. But all of this needs to be investigated, documented and safe guards put into place.
Missn-Hitch
Sep 2021
#113
In my most humble opinion Milley should explain himself to the Armed Services Committee
groundloop
Sep 2021
#31
Milley improperly inserted himself in the chain of command between prez and generals
Fiendish Thingy
Sep 2021
#121
Yeah, there is that. Here's the oath all military officers take and that Milley took when he was
KPN
Sep 2021
#43
Well put, thank you. Yes, Vindman, just be quiet, appreciate what was done.
Escurumbele
Sep 2021
#17
Trump was the civilian authority behind the insurrection. Which part of that doesn't Vindman
JohnSJ
Sep 2021
#71
Oh please...if Milley prevented a nuclear war, then he is a hero...this is out of line by Vindman
Escurumbele
Sep 2021
#7
Vindman blew the whistle and PUBLICLY testified- he did not use his authority to circumvent
Fiendish Thingy
Sep 2021
#12
If Dump was going to start a nuclear war, I would have been ok with a military coup to stop it.
roamer65
Sep 2021
#10
Milley showed courage. He knew he would be asked to resign for breaking the rules.
Irish_Dem
Sep 2021
#19
I think Milley would be shocked and even disappointed if there weren't consequences
cadoman
Sep 2021
#175
Exactly -- failed their pledge to uphold the Constitution. Milley did exactly that.
KPN
Sep 2021
#49
MSNBC's Morning Joe absolutely shreds GOP outrage over Milley: 'Are you stupid?'
LetMyPeopleVote
Sep 2021
#33
The "civilian authority" that should have removed Trump had abdicated responsibility out of fear.
highplainsdem
Sep 2021
#39
I don't disagree with you but I am asking about the legalities and if Millely is truly
joetheman
Sep 2021
#94
Think of all the backchannel conversations by the GOP military and civilian against President Obama.
joetheman
Sep 2021
#42
OK, just as soon as General Milley receives a Congressional Medal of Honor. (nt)
Paladin
Sep 2021
#50
What if the next Repub President puts in a die hard Repub 4 star general as Chairman.
Calista241
Sep 2021
#69
"Miley's oath was to protect our Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic" You nailed it!
mpcamb
Sep 2021
#84
It is trumpty dumpty who would have tried to circumvent the chain of command for nuclear strike.
iluvtennis
Sep 2021
#66
Not in this case Vindman. The civilian authority you speak of was behind the insurrection
JohnSJ
Sep 2021
#70
I agree that Milley may have been attempting to insert himself into the chain of command, but...
LudwigPastorius
Sep 2021
#79
The president does not have the authority to de facto declare war by launching a first strike
Redleg
Sep 2021
#101
It's not about the president's authority- it's about the lawfulness of launching unprovoked attack
Redleg
Sep 2021
#148
If instead of talking to Dan Quayle to find a Constitutional path to overthrowing an election.
2Gingersnaps
Sep 2021
#117
Lt. Col. Vindman makes a valid point. Milley had the right instincts, but he should have
Martin68
Sep 2021
#132
No, there is nothing Miley did wrong. We almost lost our government because the "civillian
JohnSJ
Sep 2021
#133
How can people write that General Miley did the right thing or the wrong thing
marie999
Sep 2021
#140
When Vindman made that statement, he didn't know Milley HAD followed procedures.
Kid Berwyn
Sep 2021
#144
I didn't think the China calls were the problem as much as interfering in the normal command
LymphocyteLover
Sep 2021
#179
IMHO, Gen. Milley acted within the bounds of the PRP program as ordered by the D.O.D.
radicalleft
Sep 2021
#147
Much still to know, but we know Milley would have done it with full awareness
Hortensis
Sep 2021
#154