General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: Phyliss Schlafly was a vile and disgusting human being. Fuck her. [View all]Kind of Blue
(8,709 posts)to know that a lot of unflattering aspects of his life is ignored. His Indian activism in South Africa, when he experienced intolerance, most definitely added to apartheid. He did come to regret his actions later in life, according to the Indian government.
While I whole heartedly agree with you about Schafley, I also agree with Dreamweaver5.0 that Gandhi did and does harm people.
Some Gandhi quotes. kaffir, a word I've come to understand is the equivalent of N-word for black South Africans.
Before May 5, 1895 When one reflects that the conception of Brahmanism, with its poetic and mysterious mythology, took its rise in the land of the Coolie trader, that in that land 24 centuries ago, the almost divine Buddha taught and practised the glorious doctrine of self-sacrifice, and that it was from the plains and mountains of that weird old country that we have derived the fundamental truths of the very language we speak, one cannot but help regretting that the children of such a race should be treated as equals of the children of black heathendom and outer darkness. Those who, for a few moments, have stayed to converse with the Indian trader have been, perhaps, surprised to find they are speaking to a scholar and a gentleman
. And it is the sons of this Land of light who are despised as Coolies, and treated as Kaffirs. ~ Vol. I, p. 225
A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir. ~ Vol. I, p. 193Before May 5, 1895
June 1, 1906 The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs. ~ Vol. V, p. 59
Apr. 14, 1906 It is not for us to say whether the revolt of the Kaffirs is justified or not. We are in Natal by virtue of British power. Our very existence depends upon it. It is therefore our duty to render whatever help we can. There was a discussion in the Press as to what part the Indian community would play in the event of an actual war. We have already declared in the English columns of this journal that the Indian community is ready to play its part;1 and we believe what we did during the Boer War should also be done now. That is, if the Government so desires, we should raise an ambulance corps. We should also agree to become permanent volunteers, if the Government is prepared to give us the requisite training. ~ Vol. V, pp. 179-180
June 30, 1906 We have to learn much from what the whites are doing in Natal. There is hardly any family from which someone has not gone to fight the Kaffir rebels. Following their example, we should steel our hearts and take courage. Now is the time when the leading whites want us to take this step; if we let go this opportunity, we shall repent later. We therefore urge all Indian leaders to do their duty to the best of their ability. ~ Vol. V, p. 273
Part of Gandhi's lengthy impassioned letter to the legislative council and assembly highlighting British and Indian shared Aryan heritage, India's contribution to arts, philosphy, religion, et cetera, and civilized - as opposed to you know who.
Before December 19, 1894 "Such is India. If the picture appears to you to be somewhat overdrawn or fanciful, it is none the less faithful. There is the other side. Let him who takes delight in separating, rather than in uniting, the two nations give the other side. Then, please, examine both with the impartiality of a Daniel, and I promise that there will yet remain a considerable portion of what has been said above untouched, to induce you to believe that India is not Africa, and that it is a civilized country in the truest sense of the term civilization. ~ Vol. I, I'm not sure of the page.
December 19, 1894
May 26, 1906 You say that the Magistrates decision is unsatisfactory, because it would enable a person, however unclean, to travel by a tram and that even the Kaffirs would be able to do so. But the Magistrates decision is quite different. The Court has declared that the Kaffirs have no legal right to travel by the trams. And, according to tram regulations, those in an unclean dress or in a drunken state are prohibited from boarding a tram. Thanks to the Courts decision, only clean Indians or Coloured people other than Kaffirs can now travel by the trams. ~ Vol. V, p. 235
Jan. 16, 1909 I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs, the reason being that they hoped there for a secret supply of tobacco, etc. This is a matter of shame to us. We may entertain no aversion to Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life. Moreover, those who wish to sleep in the same room with them have ulterior motives for doing so. Obviously, we ought to abandon such notions if we want to make progress. ~ Vol. IX, p. 257
This is just a bit from an article here http://www.mysteryofindia.com/2014/07/anti-black-quotes-of-gandhi.html from http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/VOL001.PDF
Please listen to lecture by Arundhati Roy below, Race, Caste - Ambedkar v. Gandhi, in which Gandhi used his political power to deny the Dalits, Untouchables, their right to elect their own leaders. She also explains why MLK, Jr. was more "Gandhi than Gandhi."
The Indian Constitution was authored by Gandhi's main critic and political opponent, Dr.Ambedkar, for whom our journal is named and the first Dalit in history to receive an education (if you have never heard of Dr. Ambedkar I would urge you to try and keep an open mind about what I am saying for it is a bit like me talking to you about the founding of the USA when you have never heard of Thomas Jefferson).
Most readers are familiar with Gandhi's great hunger strike against the so called Poona Pact in 1933. The matter which Gandhi was protesting, nearly unto death at that, was the inclusion in the draft Indian Constitution, proposed by the British, that reserved the right of Dalits to elect their own leaders. Dr. Ambedkar, with his degree in Law from Cambridge, had been choosen by the British to write the new constitution for India. Having spent his life overcoming caste based discrimination, Dr. Ambedkar had come to the conclusion that the only way Dalits could improve their lives is if they had the exclusive right to vote for their leaders, that a portion or reserved section of all elected positions were only for Dalits and only Dalits could vote for these reserved positions.
Gandhi was determined to prevent this and went on hunger strike to change this article in the draft constitution. After many communal riots, where tens of thousands of Dalits were slaughtered, and with a leap in such violence predicted if Gandhi died, Dr. Ambedkar agreed, with Gandhi on his death bed, to give up the Dalits right to exclusively elect their own leaders and Gandhi ended his hunger strike.Later, on his own death bed, Dr. Ambedkar would say this was the biggest mistake in his life, that if he had to do it all over again, he would have refused to give up Dalit only representation, even if it meant Gandhi's death. http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-mountain200306.htm