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Kind of Blue

(8,709 posts)
116. Yes, Ghandi was the father of nonviolent resistance but it still breaks my heart
Tue Sep 6, 2016, 08:27 PM
Sep 2016

to know that a lot of unflattering aspects of his life is ignored. His Indian activism in South Africa, when he experienced intolerance, most definitely added to apartheid. He did come to regret his actions later in life, according to the Indian government.

While I whole heartedly agree with you about Schafley, I also agree with Dreamweaver5.0 that Gandhi did and does harm people.

Some Gandhi quotes. kaffir, a word I've come to understand is the equivalent of N-word for black South Africans.

Before May 5, 1895 “When one reflects that the conception of Brahmanism, with its poetic and mysterious mythology, took its rise in the land of the ‘Coolie trader,’ that in that land 24 centuries ago, the almost divine Buddha taught and practised the glorious doctrine of self-sacrifice, and that it was from the plains and mountains of that weird old country that we have derived the fundamental truths of the very language we speak, one cannot but help regretting that the children of such a race should be treated as equals of the children of black heathendom and outer darkness. Those who, for a few moments, have stayed to converse with the Indian trader have been, perhaps, surprised to find they are speaking to a scholar and a gentleman…. And it is the sons of this Land of light who are despised as Coolies, and treated as Kaffirs.” ~ Vol. I, p. 225

“A general belief seems to prevail in the Colony that the Indians are little better, if at all, than savages or the Natives of Africa. Even the children are taught to believe in that manner, with the result that the Indian is being dragged down to the position of a raw Kaffir.” ~ Vol. I, p. 193Before May 5, 1895

June 1, 1906 “The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs.” ~ Vol. V, p. 59

Apr. 14, 1906 “It is not for us to say whether the revolt of the Kaffirs is justified or not. We are in Natal by virtue of British power. Our very existence depends upon it. It is therefore our duty to render whatever help we can. There was a discussion in the Press as to what part the Indian community would play in the event of an actual war. We have already declared in the English columns of this journal that the Indian community is ready to play its part;1 and we believe what we did during the Boer War should also be done now. That is, if the Government so desires, we should raise an ambulance corps. We should also agree to become permanent volunteers, if the Government is prepared to give us the requisite training.” ~ Vol. V, pp. 179-180

June 30, 1906 “We have to learn much from what the whites are doing in Natal. There is hardly any family from which someone has not gone to fight the Kaffir rebels. Following their example, we should steel our hearts and take courage. Now is the time when the leading whites want us to take this step; if we let go this opportunity, we shall repent later. We therefore urge all Indian leaders to do their duty to the best of their ability.” ~ Vol. V, p. 273

Part of Gandhi's lengthy impassioned letter to the legislative council and assembly highlighting British and Indian shared Aryan heritage, India's contribution to arts, philosphy, religion, et cetera, and civilized - as opposed to you know who.
Before December 19, 1894 "Such is India. If the picture appears to you to be somewhat overdrawn or fanciful, it is none the less faithful. There is the other side. Let him who takes delight in separating, rather than in uniting, the two nations give the other side. Then, please, examine both with the impartiality of a Daniel, and I promise that there will yet remain a considerable portion of what has been said above untouched, to induce you to believe that India is not Africa, and that it is a civilized country in the truest sense of the term civilization. ~ Vol. I, I'm not sure of the page.

December 19, 1894

May 26, 1906 “You say that the Magistrate’s decision is unsatisfactory, because it would enable a person, however unclean, to travel by a tram and that even the Kaffirs would be able to do so. But the Magistrate’s decision is quite different. The Court has declared that the Kaffirs have no legal right to travel by the trams. And, according to tram regulations, those in an unclean dress or in a drunken state are prohibited from boarding a tram. Thanks to the Court’s decision, only clean Indians or Coloured people other than Kaffirs can now travel by the trams.” ~ Vol. V, p. 235

Jan. 16, 1909 “I observed with regret that some Indians were happy to sleep in the same room as the Kaffirs, the reason being that they hoped there for a secret supply of tobacco, etc. This is a matter of shame to us. We may entertain no aversion to Kaffirs, but we cannot ignore the fact that there is no common ground between them and us in the daily affairs of life. Moreover, those who wish to sleep in the same room with them have ulterior motives for doing so. Obviously, we ought to abandon such notions if we want to make progress.” ~ Vol. IX, p. 257

This is just a bit from an article here http://www.mysteryofindia.com/2014/07/anti-black-quotes-of-gandhi.html from http://www.gandhiserve.org/cwmg/VOL001.PDF

Please listen to lecture by Arundhati Roy below, Race, Caste - Ambedkar v. Gandhi, in which Gandhi used his political power to deny the Dalits, Untouchables, their right to elect their own leaders. She also explains why MLK, Jr. was more "Gandhi than Gandhi."

The Indian Constitution was authored by Gandhi's main critic and political opponent, Dr.Ambedkar, for whom our journal is named and the first Dalit in history to receive an education (if you have never heard of Dr. Ambedkar I would urge you to try and keep an open mind about what I am saying for it is a bit like me talking to you about the founding of the USA when you have never heard of Thomas Jefferson).

Most readers are familiar with Gandhi's great hunger strike against the so called Poona Pact in 1933. The matter which Gandhi was protesting, nearly unto death at that, was the inclusion in the draft Indian Constitution, proposed by the British, that reserved the right of Dalits to elect their own leaders. Dr. Ambedkar, with his degree in Law from Cambridge, had been choosen by the British to write the new constitution for India. Having spent his life overcoming caste based discrimination, Dr. Ambedkar had come to the conclusion that the only way Dalits could improve their lives is if they had the exclusive right to vote for their leaders, that a portion or reserved section of all elected positions were only for Dalits and only Dalits could vote for these reserved positions.

Gandhi was determined to prevent this and went on hunger strike to change this article in the draft constitution. After many communal riots, where tens of thousands of Dalits were slaughtered, and with a leap in such violence predicted if Gandhi died, Dr. Ambedkar agreed, with Gandhi on his death bed, to give up the Dalits right to exclusively elect their own leaders and Gandhi ended his hunger strike.Later, on his own death bed, Dr. Ambedkar would say this was the biggest mistake in his life, that if he had to do it all over again, he would have refused to give up Dalit only representation, even if it meant Gandhi's death.
http://www.countercurrents.org/dalit-mountain200306.htm


If there's a hell, she's burning there Freddie Sep 2016 #1
Death, or Chichi! longship Sep 2016 #5
... BlancheSplanchnik Sep 2016 #9
LOL!!! 2naSalit Sep 2016 #48
The punchline could be, "Death... by Chichi" (n/t) PJMcK Sep 2016 #58
First time I laughed today. Thanks! Ligyron Sep 2016 #82
ok I give.... steve2470 Sep 2016 #84
A made up Hell torture in order to make a joke. nt longship Sep 2016 #85
ok thanks, I found various definitions but none really fit LOL nt steve2470 Sep 2016 #87
We used to tell a similar joke cannabis_flower Sep 2016 #89
Bunta, Chichi, Punga, Mortapror. It's all the same thing. longship Sep 2016 #91
Actually.. cannabis_flower Sep 2016 #123
Where I grew up, death or punga! Still In Wisconsin Sep 2016 #92
She fought the ERA... Whatthe_Firetruck Sep 2016 #16
Yes, she said women should stay at home and raise their kids while she flew around the country SharonAnn Sep 2016 #47
Scalia is keeping her seat warm AwakeAtLast Sep 2016 #29
She helped craft her own bit of hell on earth for others. Good riddance. fleabiscuit Sep 2016 #98
Longtime Asshole Hater supreme freak Person 2713 Sep 2016 #2
But, how do you REALLY feel? TheDebbieDee Sep 2016 #3
Let me guess: Someone splashed a bucket of water on her? n/t backscatter712 Sep 2016 #4
When I read the news, that song started playing in my head Old Terp Sep 2016 #97
She was a horrible human being mcar Sep 2016 #6
Time for a pint of Schlafly Pale Ale. Missn-Hitch Sep 2016 #7
She was a misogynistic vile pig. Greybnk48 Sep 2016 #8
I thought the same thing one less Cheeto vote kimbutgar Sep 2016 #10
I can't help but wonder if she had a Lee Atwater moment at the end. Snarkoleptic Sep 2016 #11
See #2 above, I doubt it, there she is at a Trump rally. She never changed or stevenleser Sep 2016 #42
Schlafly reincarnated as a fly revmclaren Sep 2016 #12
I gotta go get a fly swatter, now. roamer65 Sep 2016 #13
Here ya go. . . DinahMoeHum Sep 2016 #102
I wouldn't fuck her with a stolen dick - George Carlin line Feeling the Bern Sep 2016 #14
I was gonna say... New Orleans Strong Sep 2016 #20
If her bank account was loaded, they're probably into the third chorus of MADem Sep 2016 #93
Burning in hell as we speak! Raine Sep 2016 #15
Please let there be three like celebrities..... Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2016 #17
I'm down with that! 2naSalit Sep 2016 #49
Didn't she once say, "There will be a female president over my dead body!" progressoid Sep 2016 #18
IT'S AN OMEN !!!!! Monk06 Sep 2016 #33
Sounds like it!! 2naSalit Sep 2016 #50
Yeah, too bad she couldn't hold on until after November 8. . . DinahMoeHum Sep 2016 #103
Hope that turns out a true prophecy, as the alternative is ... the unthinkable LeftishBrit Sep 2016 #108
well said! gopiscrap Sep 2016 #19
How DARE you speak ill of the dead!!! 8 track mind Sep 2016 #21
[P_Schafly]$ echo "export PATH=$PATH:/straight/to/hell" GoDawgs Sep 2016 #57
pschafly: sudo mv ~ /dev/null VulgarPoet Sep 2016 #60
not found because DU strips backslashes Glassunion Sep 2016 #76
Better cut off her head, stuff her mouth with garlic, and drive a wooden stake through her heart. backscatter712 Sep 2016 #22
Just one more thing... bullsnarfle Sep 2016 #80
Very helpful backscatter712 Sep 2016 #88
Maybe an absentee ballot? StarzGuy Sep 2016 #23
Too early for that 2naSalit Sep 2016 #51
I guess her case against her kids over control of the Eagle Forum is moot. longship Sep 2016 #24
The thought of Hillary as president... Zambero Sep 2016 #25
Some people thought she was a progressive 'hero' for bravely fighting nudity & sex on the intertubes Warren DeMontague Sep 2016 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author MichiganVote Sep 2016 #27
I wish she could have lived until after the election.... missingfink Sep 2016 #28
This message was self-deleted by its author iandhr Sep 2016 #30
Gross thread melman Sep 2016 #31
This is what happens when hateful people die. longship Sep 2016 #45
No melman Sep 2016 #55
Call it her legacy. She earned every bit of it. longship Sep 2016 #56
Hey, if it makes you feel any better: Paladin Sep 2016 #62
yes, thankfully, scalia is still dead. niyad Sep 2016 #109
I don't understand why it's not right MyNameGoesHere Sep 2016 #67
Much more convenient to indict her critics for "it's really not right," than it is... LanternWaste Sep 2016 #68
This is way, way beyond "not mourning." This thread makes Schlafly look like a kindly old grandma. Buzz Clik Sep 2016 #65
+1 Buzz Clik Sep 2016 #64
Seems both a subjective and relative statement LanternWaste Sep 2016 #69
Subjective? Obviously. Relative? As the word "above" dictates. Moral righteousness? Undeserved. Buzz Clik Sep 2016 #74
We are all only humans. rivegauche Sep 2016 #81
It's easy to do anonymously online... Honest.Dem Sep 2016 #86
thanks for a reasoned, thoughtful post. except--I tell these vile, hatefilled monsters to their niyad Sep 2016 #110
We should be mourning the fact that she lived a long productive life. nt JTFrog Sep 2016 #117
Elvis Costello sang this about Margaret Thatcher sweetloukillbot Sep 2016 #32
That song's been going thru my head all day Freddie Sep 2016 #83
Sorry, but the Liverpool soccer fans have that beat. . . DinahMoeHum Sep 2016 #104
She was a daughter, a sister,a mother and a human being. Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #34
I couldn't possibly agree less with Schlafly's political views Ellen Forradalom Sep 2016 #35
She did a lot of damage to a lot of people - Hell Hath No Fury Sep 2016 #36
So did Ghandi and Hitler. Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #38
Wait, what? Gandhi ruined people's lives? Zynx Sep 2016 #41
If you believe the Bible Yes it does classykaren Sep 2016 #101
This guy pissed on Pol Pot's grave bluestateguy Sep 2016 #107
What specifically are the objective and negative consequences should we decide to "piss on their gra LanternWaste Sep 2016 #71
Then don't. Act_of_Reparation Sep 2016 #73
First you say it's an "opinion" that Schafley was a harmful person, and now you say MADem Sep 2016 #96
Yes, Ghandi was the father of nonviolent resistance but it still breaks my heart Kind of Blue Sep 2016 #116
You said "He did come to regret his actions later in life, according to the Indian government." MADem Sep 2016 #118
Gandhi's own words and actions excoriates him - not me. Kind of Blue Sep 2016 #119
You made the point about his regret, not me. MADem Sep 2016 #120
The bottom-line is undeniable that Gandhi harmed people. Kind of Blue Sep 2016 #121
Who's "laughing?" MADem Sep 2016 #122
At least i will have to something to remember about my vacation by other than re-roofing my house nolabels Sep 2016 #43
Im GWC58 Sep 2016 #37
That's all we can do at times. Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #39
In addition to chastising others for reacting in such a way that lacks any real consequences. LanternWaste Sep 2016 #72
I don't see how a 92-year old dying is tragic. Zynx Sep 2016 #40
Tragic never came to mind. Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #44
Cheers to your principles but I am eagerly awaiting your "Gandhi" explanation. Respectfully. Missn-Hitch Sep 2016 #46
Ghandi asked his followers to practice non violent protest. Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #52
I do understand and appreciate your words. Missn-Hitch Sep 2016 #53
Her kids got tired of waiting for her to die and are already fighting in court over the family grift LeftyMom Sep 2016 #54
What a creative little bumper sticker you and your little peeps have imagined... LanternWaste Sep 2016 #70
She was a racist, a sexist, a misogynist and an asshole too. MADem Sep 2016 #95
I won't celebrate her death sellitman Sep 2016 #59
And nothing of value was lost. I'm pissing on her grave with gleeful abandon. GOLGO 13 Sep 2016 #61
Good fuckin riddance to bad rubbish. HughBeaumont Sep 2016 #63
God struck her down. msanthrope Sep 2016 #66
thank you for sparing me the necessity of posting the same. niyad Sep 2016 #75
and, of course, there are the "we are better than this" posters, as expected. I have had niyad Sep 2016 #77
I remember her in her heyday, and I have to agree that there is some validity MADem Sep 2016 #94
Only the good die young.... Liberalagogo Sep 2016 #78
YES. THANK YOU. rivegauche Sep 2016 #79
Her life's contribution: she was a pioneer in making religion-based hate mainstream. Still In Wisconsin Sep 2016 #90
Yes, she was. BigDemVoter Sep 2016 #99
Bye Felicia LakeArenal Sep 2016 #100
Agree moose966 Sep 2016 #105
welcome to du niyad Sep 2016 #112
Now now...don't you know you make unicorns cry when you say stuff like that? Rex Sep 2016 #106
Of the dead speak nothing but good. The Green Manalishi Sep 2016 #111
Tom Hartman today said... Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #113
My gay friends, who were in committed relationships, but died before they could legally marry bluestateguy Sep 2016 #114
How? Dreamweaver 5.0 Sep 2016 #115
Can't say I disagree with your assessment....nt arthritisR_US Sep 2016 #124
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