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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
Wed Apr 15, 2015, 05:40 PM Apr 2015

The demands for Hillary loyalty are loud and clear on DU. [View all]

And many of them are accompanied by confessions that the demander is really wanting a more progressive candidate but has resigned him/herself to supporting Hillary out of fear that the only alternative to supporting Hillary is a Republican president.

Not so.

First. The nation will not become more progressive unless those of us who are progressive get our message out and struggle to make our message understood and accepted.

It took years of failure by the progressive movement of the late 19th century to finally result in the election of a couple of presidents who, for a short time, realized progressive policies. And then, the presidents who put those policies into action were not the most progressive possible. They were converts who became emboldened to progressive action by the pressure of the many, many Americans who demanded it.


But, the assumption that at this point, a year before the primaries, that we should all support the candidacy in the primaries of Hillary Clinton, perhaps one of the most right-wing among our potential candidates (if her donor base reflects her convictions), is based on what I believe to be a false assumption: that Hillary is the only potential candidate we have who can win in the general election.

That, may I say, is THE FALLACY OF THE INEVITABLE HILLARY.

First, although she is doing well in the polls, we have no assurance, no proof, not even much evidence that Hillary will survive the primary, much less win in the general election.

I was a child when Adlai Stevenson ran and ran again for president. He was a nice person running on a good platform, but he did not have the personality or charisma to win.

Later, in his first race for the presidency, Nixon lost. When he ran in 1968, Nixon played every dirty trick in the book to win against a candidate who would have made a far better president than Nixon did.

Nixon was viewed by many as inevitable. And the country was deeply divided and depressed by the Viet Nam fiasco.

Then, Democrats succumbed to the temptation of offering what they thought was the most electable candidate: a great guy and the heir apparent, former Vice President Hubert Humphrey.

Humphrey was a great guy, but he was the wrong candidate for the time. He could not separate himself from the establishment types running the Democratic Party.

In addition, the Democratic Party made a demon of itself with the treatment of demonstrators and war protestors at the Party's convention in Chicago. Voices that needed to be heard within the convention hall were excluded. And Democrats lost to a weak candidate, Nixon, in the general election.

We should not repeat those mistakes. We should allow all voices to be heard in the convention hall in 2016. And we should not mindlessly, emotionally nominate the inevitable heir apparent without a primary process that tests him/her.

We should not, at this point, assume that Hillary will be our candidate or that she will win.

We should be encouraging other candidates to stand up and run in the primaries. Primaries are not just popularity contests. They train and test the candidates. They help them hone their messages. They put candidates in the limelight and submit their personalities, their character, their ideas and their purposes to criticism and public appraisal. They help us choose our best candidate, put our best foot forward. Primaries are an essential part of the democratic process.

The assumption that Hillary will be our candidate may prove true. It may not. It is far too early to tell.

Hillary has a huge campaign fund. That is an advantage if you look at it from a superficial point of view.

But a huge campaign fund has to have come from somewhere. And that can be a trap for well funded candidates. Hillary is no exception. Her biggest donors include people who work for large financial institutions and major law firms as well as big corporations. Those donors will be scrutinized and examined inside and out. Their relationships with the Clintons will be analyzed and publicized. Their relationships with foreign countries and foreign interests will be analyzed and publicized. And their relationships with people who have sought or received favors or advantages from the Clintons will be analyzed and publicized. And what is discovered may be very unpleasant for Hillary Clinton. Maybe not. Maybe. It's one of the big unknowns in this election cycle.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch. We do not know who our candidate will be. It is too soon to start marching in goosestep with the brass Hillary band. She has a long trek to complete before she is nominated, much less elected.

So relax. Anything can happen between now and November 2016. Give all the primary candidates a good listen to and a good look at. 2016 is an important year. We don't want to mess it up. The future of the earth depends on our care in selecting our candidate.

260 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Demands? I don't see demands here. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #1
Best. H Logo. Ever! KamaAina Apr 2015 #4
Thanks. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #9
Ooh. Your H> Doesn't know where that elephant has been! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #68
lmfao! hrmjustin Apr 2015 #70
DUZY award right here folks! leftofcool Apr 2015 #131
We got so much flack about laughing at the original logo's merrily Apr 2015 #204
you mean.... NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #208
Well, if you assume the H is Hillary and the arrow is meant to show where she is heading...... merrily Apr 2015 #210
LOL how the elephant's rear feet are clean off the ground! NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #73
Ah, I remember. Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #92
It's just helping the elephant over the fence. Honest! Thor_MN Apr 2015 #147
I think mine is better... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #234
Nice! KamaAina Apr 2015 #238
Indeed... truebrit71 Apr 2015 #239
I see debate, demands, insults and dismissive rudeness lovemydog Apr 2015 #12
I understand what you are saying. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #14
Heheh, me too. lovemydog Apr 2015 #20
.i love it. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #21
Don't get too overworked so early on imo. Just think, this is the first week! Rex Apr 2015 #45
I was just thinking about that too Rex. lovemydog Apr 2015 #57
Well said. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #71
Or a troll from Free Republic. leftofcool Apr 2015 #132
Probably will be a troll from the RWing blogosphere. Rex Apr 2015 #160
Yes, but myself and I think you would never get testy or angry with someone who said NoJusticeNoPeace Apr 2015 #53
Well said. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2015 #29
Right. H2O Man Apr 2015 #40
This is more fun then debating who my team should take QuestionAlways Apr 2015 #67
I'd like the policies to go further left but the President does not do it alone treestar Apr 2015 #103
Me neither. OP needs to show evidence or admit lying. JaneyVee Apr 2015 #56
That's sarcasm, yes? Bkz calling anyone with concerns about Hillary a "basher" is NOT a debate. DesertDiamond Apr 2015 #196
That is one view. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #199
Shhhhh...Don't ruin their persecution fantasy. LordGlenconner Apr 2015 #201
lol. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #212
I see demands couched as false framing of the choices. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #205
I have no doubt you can point to individual examples of what you said but... hrmjustin Apr 2015 #214
I have no problem with that, but such challenges are not what the OP is about. Jim Lane Apr 2015 #232
I expect to be challenged in GD. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #233
If you don't see what the OP is about, you are being willfully blind Martin Eden Apr 2015 #219
I never said i was against a primary. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #224
Nor did I say you said that Martin Eden Apr 2015 #226
Lol. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #227
You too! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #229
Yawn trumad Apr 2015 #2
We there you have it. bluesbassman Apr 2015 #24
HA! 0-7 Jury vote to leave your post alone trumad CreekDog Apr 2015 #66
alerted for the word yawn. trumad Apr 2015 #82
AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service XemaSab Apr 2015 #122
poor little alert stalker... trumad Apr 2015 #140
Props to Juror #5 -- very good explanation! (n/t) Jim Lane Apr 2015 #207
"his" meds??? NYC_SKP Apr 2015 #133
Jury results fadedrose Apr 2015 #79
Wake up! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #222
I gave you a big long reply in another thread. lovemydog Apr 2015 #3
Very wise. I am strongly on one side of the dispute about Hillary. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #52
WARREN'S NOT RUNNING. Darb Apr 2015 #188
Well said and too true. Vincardog Apr 2015 #5
Get somebody to run. Kingofalldems Apr 2015 #6
Will you give Sanders a chance? hardcover Apr 2015 #129
Perhaps if he had one... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #151
Its not a demand...its just facts... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #7
57% in polling two days ago AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #22
In ONE poll....I can show you multiples....and consistency... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #23
LOL AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #26
I could also show YOU how she polls against the Republicans now... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #28
LOL AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #33
yeah...LOL indeed I AM! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #34
That poll raises more questions than it answers onenote Apr 2015 #112
What is not disputable is the trending downward trajectory of her approval rating among Dems AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #115
I don't see that many people trying to put the kibosh on the primary process onenote Apr 2015 #116
I'm pretty useless when it comes to dissecting polls. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #117
You are right and that is why I gave you the link to RealClearPolitics VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #154
here's the trend you are in denial about AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #161
That is ONLY Gallup polls my friend... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #162
Ahhhh, yes, GALLUP!!! MADem Apr 2015 #166
Riiiiight. Your knuckleheaded kneejerk denial is impressive. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #170
Your snarling resort to personal invective is, certainly! MADem Apr 2015 #175
True, and people need to understand that. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #247
Why don't you do a teensy bit of research about assessing trends. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #168
No why don't YOU....I have done my homework... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #169
You are simply flat out incorrect. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #171
No I am not....here you go...look again.. VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #172
The poster with whom you 'argue' (I use the word loosely, it's not a fair fight, you are winning in MADem Apr 2015 #178
incorrect DrKZ Apr 2015 #194
its a trend showing historical data that contradicts VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #197
I did read the entire thread ... I could go into detail but here is a response to your poll data DrKZ Apr 2015 #252
One poll does not a trend make....but you know that VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #152
here's a trend for you AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #165
And here is one for you... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #174
Once again you need to look at the studies (not polls not the misinformation highway) DrKZ Apr 2015 #198
I think you are trying to represent that a graphed line for a trend...regardless of that direction Sheepshank Apr 2015 #186
the line graph represents the trend of numerical data over time AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #200
Her voice is uninspiring DarknessFalls Apr 2015 #37
Her voice now? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #39
No, not now, always. DarknessFalls Apr 2015 #55
Unfortunately, you re right. And voices matter. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #135
All women have high voices....WTF are you trying to say? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #167
The Kathleen Turner effect DrKZ Apr 2015 #253
Kathleen Turner and you if what you are describing is true...is the anomaly not the norm VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #255
you know who's voice really super sucks...Cruz n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #187
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #191
Damn, I missed the response...bet it was a good one lol n/t Sheepshank Apr 2015 #223
They very much are. The Green Manalishi Apr 2015 #228
They support who they are told to support. Heard mentality. too lazy to think for themselves. bowens43 Apr 2015 #65
bullshit. nt seabeyond Apr 2015 #69
Wow, too lazy to think for sufrommich Apr 2015 #74
And insulting the vast majority of Democrats who support Clinton in the Democratic Party VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #176
the only "demands" I see are that we all vote for a/the D DrDan Apr 2015 #8
All demands are counterproductive including that one. zeemike Apr 2015 #89
I should stop demanding?????????????? What have I demanded? DrDan Apr 2015 #141
You are not going to pick a fight with me. zeemike Apr 2015 #149
I am picking a fight???? too rich DrDan Apr 2015 #183
See your post I replied to.n/t zeemike Apr 2015 #185
This message was self-deleted by its author carolinayellowdog Apr 2015 #215
the demand on "Democratic Underground" to vote for a Democrat....is "counterproductive"?? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #180
I admit that I may have demanded that no one vote "R" Sheepshank Apr 2015 #221
No I see demand as a problem. zeemike Apr 2015 #225
yeah, appearing to demand, or assuming so many demand that people stop demanding is a total turn off Sheepshank Apr 2015 #242
I make no demands that you stop anything. zeemike Apr 2015 #244
Not much interested in examples from last century. randome Apr 2015 #10
Who thinks they could win against the woman with 75% party support? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #13
If someone else shows up who can, I'd welcome them. randome Apr 2015 #16
it is what it is... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #19
Your question is based on assumptions that, as I point out, are not yet proven to be true. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #25
Name another Democrat with 75% support...this far out VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #41
Again, while the 75% approval rate is not to be ignored or laughed at, JDPriestly Apr 2015 #46
Its VERY important....but not AS important as the FACT that she also polls VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #47
As a supporter of Hillary, I hope you are doing what you can to insure that differential lasts JDPriestly Apr 2015 #50
Yeah a warning from the guy with the Warren logo in his sig line... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #97
Not so much a warning as the voice of experience. I've watched a lot of election cycles. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #108
actually you said "warning" VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #146
The thing about such a poll number is Americans do enjoy seeing people fail HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #76
riiiiiiioght...yeah that is the perfect answer! VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #98
Where did I call her quote inevitable unquote?? HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #109
Oh I get you now...her 75% polling numbers is all because of media.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #110
You don't do angry very well HereSince1628 Apr 2015 #111
Probably because I am not angry... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #145
To all those yapping about 75% approval ratings: semanticwikiian Apr 2015 #80
Yes. Not only the bandwagon fallacy but also the phenomenon of peaking too soon. RufusTFirefly Apr 2015 #85
Yeah enjoy it while you can....its been such for oh over a year now.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #100
This one paragraph is totally correct: Stuart G Apr 2015 #62
Hillary has survived their attacks for how long now? VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #101
You're thinking of the "killer rabbit" incident Art_from_Ark Apr 2015 #127
Yes. I was not living in the US at the time but still read about it in a foreign newspaper. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #130
Nobody on an internet forum can demand anything from you. sufrommich Apr 2015 #11
If you like to play the victim.. it's a "demand". Cha Apr 2015 #17
Man that bugs me.It's like people sufrommich Apr 2015 #30
I was just thinking that treestar Apr 2015 #104
That's not true. LWolf Apr 2015 #150
All forums have moderation.It's not censoring,it's sufrommich Apr 2015 #153
Yes. LWolf Apr 2015 #155
The OP is stating that Hillary supporters have the sufrommich Apr 2015 #156
That's not what I read in the OP. LWolf Apr 2015 #157
No--compliance is the currency YOU spend to enter the venue. No one "demands" that you willingly MADem Apr 2015 #163
. LWolf Apr 2015 #256
It's not ME telling myself--or you. It's in the TOS. MADem Apr 2015 #257
OMG...THANK YOU. LWolf Apr 2015 #259
So pleased I was able to help. MADem Apr 2015 #260
i make no assumptions. i am excited ot listen to others that jump in. demand? what? seabeyond Apr 2015 #15
Thoughtful post. Thanks. AtomicKitten Apr 2015 #18
Kicked and recommended a whole bunch! Enthusiast Apr 2015 #27
Please don't spit on me and tell me it's raining... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #31
The Martyr... alcibiades_mystery Apr 2015 #32
The safest place to be on a liberal or conservative board is to stake out... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #38
and means no one expects you to DO shit.... VanillaRhapsody Apr 2015 #42
No, you don't know who the candidate will be BainsBane Apr 2015 #35
A couple of issues that are important to me are TPP and other trade agreements, charter JDPriestly Apr 2015 #43
I'm not putting my eggs anywhere BainsBane Apr 2015 #51
Who are "all these candidates" of which you speak? MADem Apr 2015 #173
I couldn't agree with you more and would add DrKZ Apr 2015 #203
Excellent post. nt Bobbie Jo Apr 2015 #64
"Nothing you or anyone else posts on DU encourages anyone to run." Bonobo Apr 2015 #114
Kickin' Faux pas Apr 2015 #36
How could I *not* rec a JDPriestly post? MannyGoldstein Apr 2015 #44
Since OP isn't around, perhaps you can give links and evidence? JaneyVee Apr 2015 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Apr 2015 #48
And I, for one, will be voting for all Democrats except Hillary. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #54
this is the number 1 reason i am not a clinton supporter and yet, if she gets the nod, you can damn seabeyond Apr 2015 #58
that's because you're not hysterical, seabeyond Skittles Apr 2015 #72
i really. gotta wonder. seabeyond Apr 2015 #77
K&R n/t Oilwellian Apr 2015 #49
Great post. I appreciate the fact that you stay on issue while others seem to rhett o rick Apr 2015 #60
Great post JD MissDeeds Apr 2015 #61
Very. Well. Put. DeSwiss Apr 2015 #63
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #75
Well you just attacked him. zeemike Apr 2015 #93
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2015 #94
My "agency"..WTF is that a new buzz word I have not yet seen?. zeemike Apr 2015 #96
The only thing close to demands are to vote for the Democratic nominee dbackjon Apr 2015 #78
The demands can grow as loud and clear as they want to rury Apr 2015 #81
Outstanding post RiverLover Apr 2015 #83
"The Inevitable Hillary" Unexploded Scotsman Apr 2015 #84
"The demands for Hillary loyalty are loud and clear " NaturalHigh Apr 2015 #86
A valiant try, my friend. Hell Hath No Fury Apr 2015 #87
This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Apr 2015 #123
Her supporters wanna skip the primary because she'll be laid bare whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #88
I am all for a primary. hrmjustin Apr 2015 #90
Glad to hear it whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #95
I want a primary. leftofcool Apr 2015 #136
Yay! whatchamacallit Apr 2015 #138
Huh? Beowulf42 Apr 2015 #91
K&R marym625 Apr 2015 #99
What demands? treestar Apr 2015 #102
In many cases, H2O Man Apr 2015 #105
TY, JD, I wholeheartedly agree. K & R mother earth Apr 2015 #106
I will vote according to my conscience ...and I ain't selling my soul to the 1% to win. L0oniX Apr 2015 #107
I'm only asking for party loyalty in November, 2016. RandySF Apr 2015 #113
I refuse to just fall in to be falling in because someone says so. lonestarnot Apr 2015 #118
Update DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #119
To be fair, you should count the dismissive or insulting morningfog Apr 2015 #121
People are just fighting fire with fire.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #124
No. Responding to criticisms of a candidate with personal insults directed at a DUer is not morningfog Apr 2015 #125
The constant barrage of hate, invective, and criticism is bound to result in pushback.../NT DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #128
Personal attack is not pushback. Even characterizing morningfog Apr 2015 #139
I get to decide what is hurtful and offensive... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #142
I will never understand how criticism of a national figure's morningfog Apr 2015 #143
When the criticism is often baseless, slanted, and repetitive folks are going to respond... DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #144
And there you go to the personal attack. morningfog Apr 2015 #148
What is insulting about suggesting that when a person upsets another person DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #184
This: morningfog Apr 2015 #189
If posters weren't calling out other posters , implicitly or explicitly, DU would suck much less. DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #190
Good post. It's gonna be a fun ride. morningfog Apr 2015 #120
You and we all are voters, not victims. It's called an election for a reason. pinto Apr 2015 #126
I didn't realize saying... one_voice Apr 2015 #134
Who said "F--k Clinton'' on this board, not that it surprises me ? DemocratSinceBirth Apr 2015 #137
Funny the only ones I read proclaiming Hillary is inevitable are not her supporters. Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #158
+1,000,000. MADem Apr 2015 #179
SUPPORT whosoever you'd like. MADem Apr 2015 #159
I glad to see you have such contempt for us people who don't have mops on top of our heads nolabels Apr 2015 #192
Huh? MADem Apr 2015 #193
Then you are saying there will not be a candidate you can vote? Thinkingabout Apr 2015 #216
No, not at all, the problem i have with the 'wink and nod' is the ploy of it. nolabels Apr 2015 #235
All candidates need to be asked, "What do you have to do for all of that money?" Dustlawyer Apr 2015 #164
Support whatever candidate you want in the primaries, and advocate for that candidate. Because still_one Apr 2015 #177
+ 1,000,000,000 What You Said !!! WillyT Apr 2015 #181
Is this Satire , too? Cryptoad Apr 2015 #182
Thanks for writing what I was trying to formulate in my head. Well said! DesertDiamond Apr 2015 #195
hyperbolic nonsense. stonecutter357 Apr 2015 #202
Whatever. I don't give a damn who you vote for MoonRiver Apr 2015 #206
I've yet to sign up for Team Hillary and no one is pressuring me LynneSin Apr 2015 #209
Sign Up Now! onehandle Apr 2015 #237
Not there yet LynneSin Apr 2015 #249
Not until she is the official nominee Lunabell Apr 2015 #211
We went through this in 2007 and 2008. No thanks. Hillary has to earn my vote. Period! Liberal_Stalwart71 Apr 2015 #213
K and R times a MILLION !!! Martin Eden Apr 2015 #217
So, now let the primary contesters announce! MoonRiver Apr 2015 #218
Lincoln Chafee just did ... Martin Eden Apr 2015 #220
And his assistant retracted. MADem Apr 2015 #258
Dude, you are NOT a persecuted minority at DU, so don't try to guilt anyone. McCamy Taylor Apr 2015 #230
calling her inevitable is to preempt any challenge MisterP Apr 2015 #231
Precisely. And it weakens our party because the primary is the period in which we get to JDPriestly Apr 2015 #243
I agree with you completely DrKZ Apr 2015 #254
The only demand I see is to stop using right wing propaganda! B Calm Apr 2015 #236
Excellent post bud. Phlem Apr 2015 #240
Yet to see a single demand Politicub Apr 2015 #241
Boo fricken hoo! wolfie001 Apr 2015 #245
As of now, Clinton is the only declared candidate. Where should our loyalties lie? George II Apr 2015 #246
Can't wait til we see the first use of Hillbots. blkmusclmachine Apr 2015 #248
Hillary Clinton is no spring chicken. sulphurdunn Apr 2015 #250
Absolutely. Thanks. JDPriestly Apr 2015 #251
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