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In reply to the discussion: Sorry, Monsanto: The Science Is on Our Side, Not Yours [View all]Last edited Sun Mar 29, 2015, 10:29 AM - Edit history (9)
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/science-sushi/2011/07/18/mythbusting-101-organic-farming-conventional-agriculture/"Industrial monoculture" and "organic" are not mutually exclusive categories and a lot of "organic" farming is still industrial monoculture. Even where polyculture is adoped, industrial farming methods are still commonly used.
The demand for so-called organic foods more or less ensures that a lot of food labeled "organic" comes from industrial farming efforts, especially in the USA. And that more or less requires a lot of pesticide and herbicide use for consistent yields.
The United Nations has recently for the first time acknowledged that monoculture is unsustainable and constitutes a risk to the world's long-term food security. A recent report suggests that to ensure long-term sustainability we need to turn to permaculture/agroecology-based farming methods, with smaller farms and more labour-intensive production. And I'm a 100% behind this. A problem in developed countries like the USA is that out of the tens of millions that get a warm fuzzy eating so-called "organic" foods, very few want to move out of the suburbs and cities and make this a reality. They're still trapped in the urban consumer pattern, so industrial farming methods and monoculture dominates.
And even once this is acknowledged, there are other rational connections and distinctions those with the loudest opinions fail to make. If anything, precise genetic engineering of food plants will improve permaculture efforts massively.
(1) Permaculture *doesn't* imply non-engineered plants. Precisely engineered plants can massively advance the cause of small-scale permaculture and even reduce environmental impact
(2) Bad IP regimes can obstruct such efforts (as stated earlier I oppose patenting of life forms) but that is a separate issue from whether GMOs qua GMOs are bad. There is absolutely zero scientific sense behind the latter kind of thinking. We entered the anthropocene several centuries ago. There is nothing distinctively "natural" about any of our food crops today, or most land ecosystems across the planet.
As stated in my preceding post, a huge number of popular "organic" cultivars were created through mutation breeding in the early- to mid- 20th century. This involves bathing plants in massive quantities of radiation or mutagenic chemicals to trigger mutation, then just selecting the varieties that arise that have desirable properties. This method introduced countless cultivars with vastly less well-understood and little-studied genetic changes than modern, more precise engineering methods, yet across the globe we see these cultivars sold as "organic" while poorly informed consumers freak out about so-called "GMOs" that are obviously better understood and represent less genetic change.
And appealing to the possibility of non-mutation-bred plants only being grown doesn't strengthen specious claims about "natural" foodstuffs either. We never bothered assessing the ecological impact of all the South American breeds that became staples across the globe when we introduced them to alien ecosystems in the colonial era, or the tolerances of human populations who had not co-evolved with them. Even claiming they're in some sense "natural" and not artificial in their original environments is specious, as examination of the difference between wild teosinte, the plant corn was selectively bred from and corn, will make obvious. Current evidence suggests the genetic changes that brought about these changes were not gradual, but involved one or two significant mutations that were rapidly propagated through artificial selection during the last two millennia:
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Monsanto pays those same people MORE. We can't compete with the money in politics. Which is why
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#96
Lack of research funding is due to funding agencies not finding a good reason to spend their money.
Buzz Clik
Mar 2015
#115
Nonsense round up ready crops are huge in America, and we were lied into accepting them.
bettyellen
Mar 2015
#5
"Maybe you can wash it down with nice tall glass of that "harmless" Roundup while you are at it."
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#28
while your what is at it? there is a difference between your and you're (you are).
niyad
Mar 2015
#41
Anyone who knows about golden rice knows that the research is being done by a non-profit
eridani
Mar 2015
#77
Can't find any info about whether is is being widely used or not. A more important concern IMO--
eridani
Mar 2015
#144
Just tell us what is a GMO vegetable and what is not. We can do the rest. We are adults and it is
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#99
You can't explain why the American people should be denied the right that all of Europe's citizens
sabrina 1
Mar 2015
#103
Monsanto suing a researchers for unauthorized research: You can prove that, right?
Buzz Clik
Mar 2015
#114
Predatory business practices are hardly an indication of the things you claim. n/t
Buzz Clik
Mar 2015
#56
where *did* they get their seeds, since you have to sign a contract to get proprietary seeds?
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#63
The editors of Scientific American. Clearly they know nothing, are conspiracy-mongers, and
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#66
You are aware that this is from 5 years ago and Monsanto changed their blanket agreement since?
FLPanhandle
Mar 2015
#68
so the hell what? cosmetic change only. it's *you* who's not improving your reputation,
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#71
"68. You are aware that...is from 5 years ago and Monsanto changed their blanket agreement since?"
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#105
recurring theme with 'some.' Disagree in a thread and you're a shill and 'swarming.'
wyldwolf
Mar 2015
#26
An exercise in cherry-picking, brought to you by the organic industry's most rabid lobbying group.
NuclearDem
Mar 2015
#6
Can we have a comment on ^this^ post from the eternal defenders of corporate sanctity
Zorra
Mar 2015
#54
This article reveals more about the patent illogic and unscientific reasoning of many GMO opponents
FarrenH
Mar 2015
#13
GMO ingredients are so intertwined into our food supply, it is difficult to find foods without them.
Dont call me Shirley
Mar 2015
#14
No, not brilliant. But not nearly as stupid as trying to equate e coli to the veg it's growing on.
DisgustipatedinCA
Mar 2015
#92
Organic food doesn't kill, just the e. coli from the shit used to fertilize it kills!
Major Nikon
Mar 2015
#98
It's embarrassing to DU that every report pushing anti-GMO zealotry winds up on the Greatest page
Orrex
Mar 2015
#32
In the case of GMO companies, they have veto power over research, thereby insuring there's
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#69
So, you concede that there are no published, peer reviewed, scientific anti-GMO studies.
FLPanhandle
Mar 2015
#73
Right; except Monsanto has a lock on who can do research & what type of research can be done,
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#78
Yes, yes. We've got your point that there is no scientific evidence for the anti-GMO postion
FLPanhandle
Mar 2015
#80
To publish the research, you have to get the seed from an approved source and sign an
ND-Dem
Mar 2015
#104
So your concern about "genes jumping species" is there for any seed development technology.
HuckleB
Mar 2015
#101
Now the city of San Diego has to sue Monsanto.. for fucking up their Bay with chemicals..
Cha
Mar 2015
#102
Watch a GMO Advocate Claim a Weed Killer Is Safe to Drink but Then Refuse to Drink It
Generic Other
Mar 2015
#143