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Jesus Malverde

(10,274 posts)

78. It was Neocon mission accomplished...nt

Reply to leveymg (Reply #62)

Fri Jan 9, 2015, 11:57 AM

Jan 2015

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For all the cheerleaders who thought overthrowing Qaddafi was such a great idea [View all] eridani Jan 2015 OP

Utter chaos and dissolution of any national identity was always a part of the plan for Iraq, Libya, kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #1

The moron who thought this up was promoted to UN Ambassador AngryAmish Jan 2015 #2

The moron who thought this up may be promoted to President leveymg Jan 2015 #62

It was Neocon mission accomplished...nt Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #78

The point is permanent intra-Islamic warfare. The result is blowback leveymg Jan 2015 #87

Qaddafi was in the midst of massacring his own people from the air. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #3

FFS malaise Jan 2015 #5

Yes, actually we are. Because we stopped this one. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #6

Yep like the million Iraqis malaise Jan 2015 #9

Post removed Post removed Jan 2015 #10

ROFL malaise Jan 2015 #15

..... Lochloosa Jan 2015 #17

He says while he cuts and pastes anti-American bullshit from years ago. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #69

Par for the course Desert805 Jan 2015 #141

Malaise, a Republican? If so, he or she has fooled me for years! karynnj Jan 2015 #66

She...and don't forget malaise Jan 2015 #71

You aren't a troll but your attempt to drag Iraq into the argument is a FAIL. KittyWampus Jan 2015 #79

Iraq was in the OP, & its certainly relevant to the general argument. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #99

She -- and I will remember karynnj Jan 2015 #90

The Republicans were playing their part in the game, that's all. Most of them sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #110

^^^ This ^^^ tblue Jan 2015 #124

You know what's really sad malaise Jan 2015 #129

+1.000.000 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #131

who is in a position to discuss human rights ? JI7 Jan 2015 #58

Us. I'd like to get started on that. True Blue Door Jan 2015 #70

There was no 'air massacre of his own people' by khaddafi. that's the right wing NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #97

He said that he would do that -- should we have waited until it actually happened? karynnj Jan 2015 #126

From the same site linked in the op. NCTraveler Jan 2015 #56

Link please? MattSh Jan 2015 #12

What claim are you asking be cited? True Blue Door Jan 2015 #14

Actually, the FIRST call to action was Just to prevent the massacre karynnj Jan 2015 #65

Except we didn't cause the regime change. jeff47 Jan 2015 #74

I would love to believe you, but I read the accounts of what we were doing while they happened karynnj Jan 2015 #86

How, exactly, did we "take an offensive position against Gaddafi"? jeff47 Jan 2015 #98

I am not defending Qaddafi - he should have ended up at the Hague karynnj Jan 2015 #105

My point is we had that thumb on the scale from the beginning jeff47 Jan 2015 #116

I see your points karynnj Jan 2015 #123

The supposed 'massacre' was a response to interference by foreign powers and rebels. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #102

Qaddafi threatened to kill everyone in the city "like rats" before ANY foreign power intervened karynnj Jan 2015 #122

US generals planned to kill citizens in the streets as an anti-ussr measure. They can do NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #133

Non answer. Desert805 Jan 2015 #142

got a little list, have you? i noted a few things about you too, but i can't say them. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #143

you have the gall to talk about bullshit? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #95

I blocked your mail. If you have a question, feel free to ask it publicly. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #101

That's what we were told. A whole lot of people, around the world, knew better. sabrina 1 Jan 2015 #103

The Global Disaster Capitalists "piggy-backed" on the legitimate.... bvar22 Jan 2015 #138

+1000 Blue_Tires Jan 2015 #135

Leave the dictators alone! oberliner Jan 2015 #4

or maybe not fuck around in parts of the world where we are ignorant AngryAmish Jan 2015 #7

So when people living under an oppressive dictatorship cry out for help.... oberliner Jan 2015 #11

Who died and left the USA the boss of the world? MattSh Jan 2015 #13

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh malaise Jan 2015 #16

That is a different question oberliner Jan 2015 #19

Not at the point of a gun zipplewrath Jan 2015 #125

No one. When people need help we all have a decision to make. pampango Jan 2015 #28

Very intelligent post. What is it doing in this thread? HERVEPA Jan 2015 #57

Thanks. n/t pampango Jan 2015 #80

Wait, are you saying we must not see the world in black and white? LordGlenconner Jan 2015 #88

"we all" don't make any decisions. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #104

Not for a national government but many want our government to act as a liberal individual might act pampango Jan 2015 #121

what we might want is irrelevant. our government doesn't do what we want for the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #148

"Morality doesn't have a goddamn thing to do with any of it ..." It should. That's my point. pampango Jan 2015 #153

Saudi Arabia, under "S", on a long list reddread Jan 2015 #18

Agreed oberliner Jan 2015 #20

easier caused than prevented reddread Jan 2015 #22

Potentially admirable is not a core foreign policy driver I have the slightest interest in. TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #38

Rwanda is often used as the counter example of where "we" could have intervened karynnj Jan 2015 #82

Clinton says it was his biggest regret as POTUS oberliner Jan 2015 #89

I have read that karynnj Jan 2015 #93

that's the official storyline, yes. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #106

Yes. AngryAmish Jan 2015 #32

Our usual response is to install our own puppet dictator. Fuddnik Jan 2015 #40

You have to discriminate. bemildred Jan 2015 #68

Humanitarian aid doesn't always get to the people who need it oberliner Jan 2015 #91

Yeah, and it will be appropriated and misused, but you do what you can. bemildred Jan 2015 #100

Because if we don't no one else will? It's about time others stepped up to the plate... L0oniX Jan 2015 #96

+1. How many times has the US been criticized for supporting a dictator? treestar Jan 2015 #45

Sure like the Saudis, the Bahrainis the UAE, Jordan, morocco. Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #84

Exactly oberliner Jan 2015 #94

+100. we have always loved dictatorial governments. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #107

Some countries sadly need a dictator Reter Jan 2015 #118

A lot of Libyans thought it was a good idea. pampango Jan 2015 #8

But not enough without massive NATO firepower. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #21

Yeah, it'd look like Syria right now. joshcryer Jan 2015 #24

Syria has had massive foreign intervention too. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #25

Not to any remotely similar extent. joshcryer Jan 2015 #29

My point stands that is not a "popular uprising" if they need outside support CJCRANE Jan 2015 #36

That's rather arbitrary. joshcryer Jan 2015 #39

It depends on your point of view. How do you know what is a popular uprising CJCRANE Jan 2015 #44

Only 2% are necessary to overthrow a government. joshcryer Jan 2015 #55

Not necessarily. Would you support a Tea Party uprising? CJCRANE Jan 2015 #72

So if 2% want overthrow and 98% don't or are apathetic, that's a popular uprising? NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #109

didn't the United StaTes get some outside help in getting JI7 Jan 2015 #42

Libya was already independent. When it comes to insurrection it depends on your point of view CJCRANE Jan 2015 #46

yeah. from my point of view I wouldn't call Libyan under gaddafi JI7 Jan 2015 #49

It was an independent country, IIRC the richest in Africa. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #53

That is why they changed the name from Freedom Fries JEB Jan 2015 #50

And France had to help us during the American Revolution mythology Jan 2015 #59

+100. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #108

With dictators controlling large, modern armies I am not sure that the definition of "popular" that pampango Jan 2015 #30

If it's popular enough, they will defect. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #37

Liberals should not give dictators a pass as long as his army and security forces remain loyal. pampango Jan 2015 #67

No, they will continue to protect their privileges. jeff47 Jan 2015 #81

The hatred for the Libyan people knows no bounds. joshcryer Jan 2015 #27

How about the genocide of black Libyans at the hands of our allies? Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #85

Just the saudis, emiratis and kuwaities need distators. convenient that. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #111

Nope. joshcryer Jan 2015 #145

and the west props them all up, and has for a long time. authoritarian governments NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #146

That's what is said of Latin America. joshcryer Jan 2015 #154

The US propped up Latin American dictatorships for more than a century. And the NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #155

You pick the most pleasant scenario. joshcryer Jan 2015 #156

Pick an unpleasant one. Venezuela is all you got. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #157

1.7 million Libyans jamzrockz Jan 2015 #34

A No Fly Zone would not be warranted against a dictator on the basis of large crowds demonstrating pampango Jan 2015 #77

"These countries were targeted for war" and long ago and we knew it. PNAC, PNAC. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #112

thought this was interesting, the Occidental Petroleum seem to be comfy reddread Jan 2015 #23

Hillary smirked like a chimpanzee nilesobek Jan 2015 #26

Yup jamzrockz Jan 2015 #33

The ANC (African National Congress) nilesobek Jan 2015 #35

Do you have any evidence jamzrockz Jan 2015 #52

I'd have to look it up, I'm working 2 jobs nilesobek Jan 2015 #61

+1,000,000,000 and a lot of old, good information: polly7 Jan 2015 #41

yes, i remember that; it was disgusting. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #113

These argument ignore reality: Schema Thing Jan 2015 #31

Basically. joshcryer Jan 2015 #43

Why do scoff at the possibility of worse and on what actual basis? TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #51

Libya is NOT worse off at this point Schema Thing Jan 2015 #64

Rubbish jamzrockz Jan 2015 #76

Yes, Libya would be a fantastic place...as long as you liked the dictator. jeff47 Jan 2015 #92

I actually agree with you on some jamzrockz Jan 2015 #117

The problem is "help" was already given. jeff47 Jan 2015 #137

I would note that "propping up Gaddafi" was not an option then. Schema Thing Jan 2015 #128

in the past? we're propping up dictators right now. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #132

Dude, you are ignoring reality Schema Thing Jan 2015 #127

"I rather be free (in Syria) than comfortable (in Libya)" joshcryer Jan 2015 #144

+100 NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #115

I recall another DU faction treestar Jan 2015 #47

Cameron and Hollande led on pushing for the intervention. CJCRANE Jan 2015 #48

We support some dictators, attack others. JEB Jan 2015 #54

Must watch for anyone who wants to understand jamzrockz Jan 2015 #60

By the same logic, those opposed to intervention in other countries mythology Jan 2015 #63

You cannot be blamed for anything jamzrockz Jan 2015 #73

unless the person intervening paid the guy who's doing the beating NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #119

du rec Jesus Malverde Jan 2015 #75

reccing this. KG Jan 2015 #83

Libya is made up of a combination of seperate provinces. Kaleva Jan 2015 #114

Hawaii didn't become a state until the 50s either. Not sure what your point is. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #120

Nothing ever works right unless the people that live in a given area do it The2ndWheel Jan 2015 #130

So do we blame wikileaks and Chelsea Manning for starting the Arab Spring? Calista241 Jan 2015 #134

we loved AQ then, and in Syria (heck, Israel's upping its support for Nusra), but only south of the MisterP Jan 2015 #136

Disastrous, huge mistake but keep angering people..it works out so well our foreign policy. n/t Jefferson23 Jan 2015 #139

A colleague in Niger drmeow Jan 2015 #140

wow. that sounds kind of apocalyptic. NewDeal_Dem Jan 2015 #149

The quote was from the article drmeow Jan 2015 #158

So the country is fracturing; sometimes that happens bhikkhu Jan 2015 #147

setting Syria on fire. much worse decision.... quadrature Jan 2015 #150

Perhaps, but both are instances of fucking around with countries that we don't understand eridani Jan 2015 #151

exactly right. you wrote it better than I could ...nt quadrature Jan 2015 #152