General Discussion

Vattel

(9,289 posts) Sat Dec 27, 2014, 06:30 PM Dec 2014

Obama doesn't give a shit about torture. [View all]

If he did, then in 2009 he would have recommended legislation to amend the War Crimes Act and the Torture Act to make waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques unambiguously criminal.

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Obama doesn't give a shit about torture. [View all] Vattel Dec 2014 OP

The Geneva Conventions explicitly makes torture verboten. shraby Dec 2014 #1

Thanks for responding to the flamebait. elleng Dec 2014 #3

Why is this flamebait? This is a discussion we need to have. We need to strengthen rhett o rick Dec 2014 #40

I agree it's a discussion we need to have, but WITHOUT elleng Dec 2014 #41

Why the President doesn't do anything is part of the discussion. A big part. rhett o rick Dec 2014 #42

That was a bit flamebaitish, wasn't it? Still, the need for amendments to Vattel Dec 2014 #48

what's wrong "Obama doesn't give a shit"? ellenrr Dec 2014 #56

Our use of vulgar language contributes to deterioration of our society, imo. elleng Dec 2014 #65

But then it wouldn't be any fun LordGlenconner Dec 2014 #66

'Thanks' for that recognition, Lord. elleng Dec 2014 #68

I agree Andy823 Dec 2014 #67

'Thanks' I guess, Andy. elleng Dec 2014 #69

How likely it is to make a difference is hard to say, but I think it could make a difference. Vattel Dec 2014 #47

What laws? The ones I mentioned are the main ones. Vattel Dec 2014 #5

For uniformed soldiers captured in battle helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #11

They tortured people from Iraq. A war was declared on Iraq. Therefore the shraby Dec 2014 #23

How was war declared? nm rhett o rick Dec 2014 #39

Congress gave the bush the authorization to use force in Iraq shraby Dec 2014 #44

Did they declare a war? I don't think so. This is not a war, this is bullshit. rhett o rick Dec 2014 #49

Actually, John Yoo cites PNAC war-promoter Scooter Libby to "declare war." OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #51

This is utter bullshit. Enthusiast Dec 2014 #53

I wouldn't put it that way but rather AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #2

One of the reasons he can get away with not prosecuting Vattel Dec 2014 #7

The US is signatory to at least two international treaties AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #10

Yes, but you can't prosecute it without criminal statutes. Vattel Dec 2014 #13

Yes you can! People died from the torture. Last I looked murder is a capital crime. shraby Dec 2014 #25

The problem is that statutes against murder generally don't apply to actions in war. Vattel Dec 2014 #32

How about on moral grounds? AtomicKitten Dec 2014 #28

I am not against prosecuting the torture that occurred under Bush, Vattel Dec 2014 #38

For soldiers captured in battle helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #14

The Torture Act makes torture of captured soldiers criminal Vattel Dec 2014 #18

They are not soldiers that's why we still have that CIA run prison in Somalia helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #21

Under the Torture Act, the victim doesn't have to be a soldier. Vattel Dec 2014 #29

I understand what you are saying , what I'm saying is we still have CIA run prisons helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #33

Oh, sorry, I misunderstood. Vattel Dec 2014 #35

Exactly , I don't think there should be some back room meeting's helpmetohelpyou Dec 2014 #37

There are processes in place already. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #4

No there are no good federal statutes that criminalize torture. Vattel Dec 2014 #6

These are war crimes, they are handled differently, not necessary by the US. Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #8

If we rely on international law only Vattel Dec 2014 #9

And if the next president pardoned the guilty it would be over, it needs to be handled on Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #19

You are wrong in a very important way. Vattel Dec 2014 #27

What good would it do if the next president pardons the ones you think should be tried for torture? Thinkingabout Dec 2014 #34

You are letting the perfect be the enemy of the good. Vattel Dec 2014 #36

I am curious how the other laws work loyalsister Dec 2014 #45

Sure there are Aerows Dec 2014 #17

No, the fact that Yoo could argue Vattel Dec 2014 #24

Prosecute the criminals who are guilty of violating the law. Aerows Dec 2014 #12

Yes, enforce the laws, but also make sure the laws are well-written. Vattel Dec 2014 #15

Start with enforcing the law, period Aerows Dec 2014 #16

Fine, enforce current laws, but also amend the ones that need amending. Vattel Dec 2014 #31

shit. spanone Dec 2014 #20

I think he cares, he stopped the programs when he entered office or claims he did. Rex Dec 2014 #22

Well, there is caring and there is caring. Vattel Dec 2014 #26

Oh yes totally, hell he has the DoJ at his command. Rex Dec 2014 #30

This is deflectionary bullshit. OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #43

The law is not fine. Everyone knows it is vague. Vattel Dec 2014 #46

FFS, you'd rather torturers walk free than have Obama face any criticism. OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #50

Okay, this has no connection to reality. Vattel Dec 2014 #52

Finally! You got something correct! Enthusiast Dec 2014 #54

Here's your connection to reality: OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #58

I don't doubt that his mistreatment has resulted in prolonged mental harm. Vattel Dec 2014 #60

I find this discussion that the law is poorly-written and can't be enforced OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #61

You misrepresent what I say. I am not against enforcement. Vattel Dec 2014 #62

"But in addition to prosecuting past war crimes..." OnyxCollie Dec 2014 #63

OMG, are you serious? Vattel Dec 2014 #71

Agree if he did care he would have prosecuted Bush and Cheney ChosenUnWisely Dec 2014 #55

++ ellenrr Dec 2014 #57

This message was self-deleted by its author SidDithers Dec 2014 #59

This subject is so 3 weeks ago LordGlenconner Dec 2014 #64

Our guy has a right to be afraid of the CIA libodem Dec 2014 #70