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In reply to the discussion: This is what a REAL Democrat sounds like. [View all]merrily
(45,251 posts)I can imagine cheering and rationalizations up the yin yang. So, I'm not sure what point there is in dueling imaginary scenarios.
As for Meh, my post carefully explained exactly under what circumstances my "meh" applied. I think I am relatively consistent in applying my principles. If Bush had threatened to expand the court--as the Constitution allows and prior Presidents had done, in the exactly the same circumstances and for exactly the same reasons as FDR, I would have said the same thing I said about FDR. Besides, as my prior post specified, you don't know that FDR actually tried it or if he was bluffing. He never did expand the court. All we know for certain is that he threatened to do it and it never happened. Anything else is speculation.
As for "party loyalty and pragmatism," that's all fine and dandy, but it's funny that when one brings up a politician's actions in THIS century, and references "party loyalty and pragmatism" that here on DU they get the hand and a load of shit.
Yep, that is exactly why I used those words in my post. But, yes, posters here do bring up party loyalty and pragmatism again and again and again and again, just not for FDR. And, if anyone demurs, they call them names and tell them they're not real Democrats and accuse them of seeking to depress the vote and of making "fucking crazy" statements. Besides, I never said it was okay for FDR to do that, did I? I just said why he did it. If people here don't get it about California's having been red in Presidentials, they may not understand that it could have meant waving bye to the Party.
But, I did point out that the choice FDR faced was quite drastic. That choice was lot more drastic than just running a traditional Democrat versus a New Democrat, the kind of thing for which Party critics get called everything but a child of God here.
I'd rather have a few less-than-perfect Senators of the Democratic Party persuasion voting on those people than 54 gleeful-and-pissed-off Republicans.
You're only proving my point. FDR would rather that Democrats had a shot at the Presidency sometime in the century after him, for the Supreme Court and everything else. Given California at that time, it was a real possibility Dems would not have that shot if he ordered integration of the military or of anything else.