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hunter

(38,317 posts)
7. Not really. Nobody ever factors in the cost of agile backup power or energy storage.
Mon Nov 3, 2014, 02:03 PM
Nov 2014

The filthy fracking gas industry's utopia is wind and solar power backed up by gas turbines or fuel cells. The way the weather and daylight works, this means that by yearly average more than half the electricity on the network will be generated by gas once the system is entirely built out.

The alternative to gas backup power is expensive and/or environmentally destructive pumped hydro projects, which may fail in times of drought unless they use ocean water.

Fracked gas sucks as bad as coal and even makes nuclear power look good.

Unfortunately, by the gas industy's use of the utterly brilliant and deceptive marketing term "natural" gas, and with it's claws sunk deeply into mass media, including public broadcasting, people in general seem to have a positive opinion of combination wind and gas power generation. Being "better than coal" is a pretty low standard to aim for, and in terms of greenhouse gases and toxins leaking into the environment, fracked gas is coal's equal in awfulness.

We could build a society where large centrally managed power grids are less important to our daily living. I think one of the things we ought to be aiming for is homes, offices, and industry that are more self-sufficient about heating and cooling.

A household ought to be able to coast along in reasonable comfort for a few days when the power and gas are off, nobody getting killed by heat or cold, with enough electricity to read by, charge the family smart phones, and make it to the bathroom at night without stumbling in the dark.

We don't need more or "alternative" sources of power, we need to learn how to live comfortably using much less power.

All seashores have heavy bird populations. I'm not real alarmist about bird danger at inland wind NBachers Nov 2014 #1
Far more animals are killed by fossil fuel extraction than will ever be killed by windmills. Just grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #3
Note that Europe has 421 million fewer birds than 30 years ago, grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #9
"Not a Fan" Chico Man Nov 2014 #2
You would have to agree its a better solution than coal, and "Mt Top Removal"! grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #4
Yes Chico Man Nov 2014 #14
Having lived LWolf Nov 2014 #5
And here's what they do to get coal (talk about unsightly): grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #6
Yep. LWolf Nov 2014 #30
Can we at least preserve some natural untouched spots? Chico Man Nov 2014 #12
Yes. LWolf Nov 2014 #31
This message was self-deleted by its author Chico Man Nov 2014 #13
California has some beautiful mountain ridges, too KamaAina Nov 2014 #15
No trees to cut down, like in VT and NH. Chico Man Nov 2014 #16
I am a new englander through and through Marrah_G Nov 2014 #20
On a previously untouched ridge? Chico Man Nov 2014 #22
I think that when I see them, I see freedom from fossil fuels Marrah_G Nov 2014 #23
Not really. Nobody ever factors in the cost of agile backup power or energy storage. hunter Nov 2014 #7
Actually, hydro backup has been proven to be a viable alternative to your suggestions: grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #8
Most hydro sucks. hunter Nov 2014 #10
It's amazing to me that we spent $500 each last year subsidizing fossil fuels an only $7 grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #11
Yeah, that would definitely be a better way to go. Major Hogwash Nov 2014 #27
yep... hunter Nov 2014 #29
I like wind, but I LOVE solar. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #17
Solar panels over parking lots for electric vehicles is a good idea. hunter Nov 2014 #18
There's a profound forcing function taking place with electronic power systems. True Blue Door Nov 2014 #19
I think that's a fantastic option, providing power for vehicles while parked. grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #21
Thinner than homeopathic starved-pidgeon soup. Donald Ian Rankin Nov 2014 #24
these prices are just made up quadrature Nov 2014 #25
Of course it is! GitRDun Nov 2014 #26
But how many people have to die when they windmine? And what about tornadoes? valerief Nov 2014 #28
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Onshore Wind electricity ...»Reply #7