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H2O Man

(73,537 posts)
33. "When passions drive,
Tue Aug 19, 2014, 08:45 AM
Aug 2014

let reason hold the reins." -- Ben Franklin

It's curious, indeed, when we see DUers using phrases such as "the boot and heel of the Federal Government," or describing those advocating an arrest in this case as a "lynch mob." But be that as it may.

Presidents do not determine Constitutional Law. They do, however, task the DoJ with insuring it is carried out; and the president does have resources -- including the National Guard -- that can be used.

Amendment 1 certainly provides for a free press. Likewise, it provides for citizens' right to gather in public. What that translates to at any given era is simply this: what the federal courts, primarily the USSC, says it means. In general, the federal courts are where state court decisions are appealed, on constitutional grounds, as far as discussions of "constitutional rights" go.

The relationship between USSC decisions and pressing social issues is fascinating. And frequently frustrating. I suspect that President Obama taught just that in his class rooms when he taught constitutional law.

Brown v Topeka BOE is perhaps the best remember decision from Ike's era. Yet, equally important would be the (in)famous "Steel Seizure" case of 1952. Hence, a good constitutional law course will always include the reading of "The Anatomy of a Constitutional Law Case" (Westin; Macmillan Press; 1958).

Or, let's fast-forward to the JFK era. Indeed, there's a famous case that has to do with citizens' rights to assembly in public to voice their opinions. It would be decided by the USSC in 1967, as "Walker v Birmingham." Interestingly, Rev. King lost that case.

Indeed, of the Amendment 1 rights which have been defined in that context of Constitutional Law, the right of assemble in public is most restricted. It is in no sense absolute; the USSC has ruled consistently that it does not provide license to gather in public freely. Now, one may agree or disagree with those decisions -- King obviously disagreed in the cited case, and hence had defied a state court decision. He acted upon his conscience. And lost the case.

Today, there are certainly instances where individual reporters are being subjected to the same mistreatment that average citizens in the community in question are facing. Yet there does not appear to be any evidence that journalists are being targeted for different, harsher treatment. In fact, much of the outrage is because of exactly that.

The two journalists in the McDonald's is a good example. Clearly, they were being mistreated. But that was entirely distinct from any "rights" as journalists. In fact, they did report on these incidents -- including calling in cable news shows while in custody.

Thus, we need to consider the vast differences between the rights of journalists as defined by Constitutional Law, versus the more common approaches that government (at all levels) tends to take when dealing with the press. Consider, for example, that in Vietnam, reporters were provided fairly direct access to events (while being lied to by the military and government). Yet Reagan would deny journalists that level of access to the conflicts he involved the US in (but still provided the misinformation and disinformation). While one can and should disagree with Reagan on this, he did not violate Constitutional Law.

Reporters' have the power of FOIL. But every citizen has that same right. Sadly, however, citizens lack the ability to report when the government fails to follow FOIL, that a wealthy media source enjoys. But the important thing is that reporters do not have superior "rights."

Since there is no court injunction, much less USSC decision, involving the current situation, the fact is that President Obama is limited in his options. Obviously, he has tasked the Attorney General with becoming actively involved in the current events. That is exactly what he should be doing. And while the public should be offended by events such as Don Lemon being pushed around by individual cops, it would be a stretch to claim it violated any Constitutional Law. And it would be a glaring error for President Obama to engage in a knee-jerk reaction.

He has spoken through his actions frazzled Aug 2014 #1
And, thank you, frazzled.. Cha Aug 2014 #3
Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2014 #67
+1 sheshe2 Aug 2014 #6
Definitely. H2O Man Aug 2014 #8
So if Obama is for process, cwydro Aug 2014 #10
We're not all the president! n/t elias49 Aug 2014 #12
silly. H2O Man Aug 2014 #15
Because there is no price to be paid for DUers. eom 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2014 #28
Right Obama is DU now...next silly question plz. Rex Aug 2014 #51
Thank you for pointing that out, H2O. Cha Aug 2014 #2
Ditto that. NYC_SKP Aug 2014 #4
"Sometimes the quietest person in the room is the smartest one." well said.. Cha Aug 2014 #5
True, that. H2O Man Aug 2014 #16
Thank you H2O Man. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #7
It's an area H2O Man Aug 2014 #17
Oh yes H2O Man. sheshe2 Aug 2014 #22
Thank you. Cha Aug 2014 #32
Thank you H2O Man mcar Aug 2014 #9
Thank you! H2O Man Aug 2014 #18
How about when photojournalists (like the photographer for Getty Images just now) are VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #11
The journalists are H2O Man Aug 2014 #19
So the President doesn't have a role when journalists are being arrested for VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #23
What specifically would H2O Man Aug 2014 #30
Well, I'd expect a president to direct the DoJ to ensure that no journalist is VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #31
"When passions drive, H2O Man Aug 2014 #33
Do you support the arrest and incarceration of journalists plying their trade? Yay VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #36
Do you advocate H2O Man Aug 2014 #38
!!! bluesbassman Aug 2014 #47
By my count, last night, 4 journalists were arrested and held (photographer VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #49
Oy, as they say in Congress: Point of Personal Privilege bigtree Aug 2014 #58
I've sort of lost sight by now of what this whole kerfluffle was about. Seems to me it was about VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #59
I think there's a sometimes a gulf between what he can and should say and the effect of that bigtree Aug 2014 #61
I'd suggest looking H2O Man Aug 2014 #63
I wouldn't disagree with any of that bigtree Aug 2014 #65
Perhaps a good start H2O Man Aug 2014 #62
Sigh. Yawn. No comment necessary. No, really: VanGoghRocks Aug 2014 #68
Yes, he is acting presidential. aikoaiko Aug 2014 #13
Indeed, he is. H2O Man Aug 2014 #20
i agree but i think there is more also, he got a lot of negative attacks for just talking JI7 Aug 2014 #14
Absolutely right. H2O Man Aug 2014 #21
Right now he's done all he really can zipplewrath Aug 2014 #24
He's a good lawyer, acting like he knows from the law. riqster Aug 2014 #25
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! malaise Aug 2014 #26
He already made that mistake once bluestateguy Aug 2014 #27
KnR! nt tblue37 Aug 2014 #29
k&r... spanone Aug 2014 #34
I Disagree erpowers Aug 2014 #35
"Some wanted him to act like Robert F. Kennedy after assassination of Martin Luther King Jr." BumRushDaShow Aug 2014 #37
NYS Senator H2O Man Aug 2014 #40
"at the time, seeking the democratic nomination for the presidency." BumRushDaShow Aug 2014 #52
Two outstanding authors, H2O Man Aug 2014 #60
I grew up with those books in the house BumRushDaShow Aug 2014 #71
The issue is not about him speaking out on every case--he can't do that, obviously; Jackpine Radical Aug 2014 #57
He can "address it" BumRushDaShow Aug 2014 #70
In fact, H2O Man Aug 2014 #39
recommended bigtree Aug 2014 #42
Right. H2O Man Aug 2014 #44
I've developed zero tolerance for those who post just to pick on my nerves and insult me bigtree Aug 2014 #48
Thank you. I am getting very tired of the outrageous implication woo me with science Aug 2014 #41
Well said! H2O Man Aug 2014 #45
good point bigtree Aug 2014 #43
Right. H2O Man Aug 2014 #46
He sent Holder and the FBI to investigate the FPD. That is all I ask. Rex Aug 2014 #50
Hopefully, the investigations won't stop in Ferguson... TeeYiYi Aug 2014 #53
I agree and I think this was a wake up call to the PTB. Rex Aug 2014 #54
The last time I saw... TeeYiYi Aug 2014 #55
Well nobody can lie anymore about black people being treated equally under the law. Rex Aug 2014 #56
Obama has spoken out before. former9thward Aug 2014 #64
Nixon would know. As veep, he ordered CIA to hire MAFIA to kill Castro. Octafish Aug 2014 #66
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2014 #69
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