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91. No national borders anyone has ever drawn have been permanent
Sat Dec 12, 2020, 04:49 PM
Dec 2020

...and the United States' aren't either. We're not that "exceptional." This large, evermore diverse, populous, and quarreling nation is going to partition at some point. The real questions are when, into what, and can it be a peaceful partitioning?

"Peaceful" is gonna be tough, admittedly, whenever it happens, given the gun nuts.

Many of the people who get offended at the very thought -- plenty of them always jump in with both feet when it comes up on DU, which of course is fine -- tend to express short-horizon, often very personal viewpoints.

Maybe take a step or two back from it. It isn't happening next year. It's not going to be on Rush Limbaugh's timetable. It's a ways off yet. My guess - obviously it's only a guess - is that by the end of the century the borders of the U.S. aren't going to be what they are now, that there will have been a significant fracture by then.

When it comes, of course the countries that result are going to be very imperfect, too. But I'm certain they'll at least be able to function better than the United States government is able to.

Also, we could even strive to do it as sensibly as possible. If it's into two nations, we'd need a decade or more of everyone having dual citizenship in both nations, and choosing one or the other after the extensive transition period.

And we have this thing, the internet, on which there would be home-swapping sites, and Reds in Blue country and Blues in Red country could peruse each other's property and talk about trades. Jobs of course are not as easily tradeable, but similar sites could at least enable people to compare them and ageee to file applications to swap.

Ultimately yes, there would still be Reds choosing to stay in in Blueland, and Blues in Redland. Nothing's ever going to be perfect, or even close to it.

But it will at least be better.

We'll be able to amend the Constitution again, among other things. Allocate representation in the Senate based on population. Abolish the Electoral College. Wipe away all the far right's current weapons for their imposition of their Minority Rule. Make many badly needed changes that otherwise are going to remain impossible.

If anyone has any more realistic, plausible solutions to the irreconcilable differences that exist and just keep worsening, I don't believe I've heard them. And I have been listening.

I hope Rush Limbaugh is correct! [View all] augyboston Dec 2020 OP
I would be stuck in a red state. So, no succession. patricia92243 Dec 2020 #1
Four letter word... augyboston Dec 2020 #5
Are you offering a good job if we move from the red states we live in? redstatebluegirl Dec 2020 #12
There will be refugees of all kinds. We need to MAKE room for them. Professors included. albacore Dec 2020 #60
How about this, make more people in blue states move to red states to make them purple. GemDigger Dec 2020 #14
I think that's what happened here in AZ. So many people have moved from California in the last NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #24
That's what I am talking about! GemDigger Dec 2020 #29
And Virginia treestar Dec 2020 #66
Cool! NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #67
A couple companies from Delaware (dark blue) treestar Dec 2020 #69
The problem is that red states are often really unpleasant to live in Bettie Dec 2020 #43
I had a really tough time living here before and during the 2016 election. Well, afterward too. NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #48
That's about where I am as well Bettie Dec 2020 #50
We'll be moving to Chicago area but not Cook County. NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #59
In my town Bettie Dec 2020 #62
Some communities are like that. It's hard to be the outsider...always the "new" person. NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #65
Chicagoland is progressive North Shore Chicago Dec 2020 #78
I'm really looking forward to this move. NoRoadUntravelled Dec 2020 #79
OLD, BROKE patricia92243 Dec 2020 #15
What a simplistic answer, devoid of any empathy Clash City Rocker Dec 2020 #28
I agree with Clash SouthernIrish Dec 2020 #53
Perhaps provide some aid augyboston Dec 2020 #70
Right, because fascist dictatorships always allow people to leave, right? Clash City Rocker Dec 2020 #84
Then get out while you can... augyboston Dec 2020 #92
I give up on this conversation Clash City Rocker Dec 2020 #93
If that's so easy....why isn't everybody already doing that? Captain Stern Dec 2020 #74
How about if we abolish states and just be "The United America"? Towlie Dec 2020 #38
Secession Dorian Gray Dec 2020 #98
One tiny problem wryter2000 Dec 2020 #2
Millions of Democrats live there dalton99a Dec 2020 #7
Good map, but it doesn't show the real story. Land doesn't vote Trailrider1951 Dec 2020 #33
Good posts. Thanks from one of the 30% in a deep red county. Hortensis Dec 2020 #85
You have seen Gandhi exboyfil Dec 2020 #8
Move Polybius Dec 2020 #61
sounds good to me until the red states start restricting airspace... samnsara Dec 2020 #3
So how will life be for the African Americans exboyfil Dec 2020 #4
How is it now? RainCaster Dec 2020 #19
Outrageous ignorance and callousness. Many AA in other states Hortensis Dec 2020 #86
"Strange Fruit" everywhere llashram Dec 2020 #26
Let's see how RED those states are when they lose the billions in Democratic State redistribution. TheBlackAdder Dec 2020 #6
Exactly. judesedit Dec 2020 #11
You know what Repugs are REALLY afraid of Freddie Dec 2020 #9
Easy to say I guess sitting in a blue state. Dustlawyer Dec 2020 #10
If we could be assisted in our move to a warm blue state, I'm there. lol judesedit Dec 2020 #18
*this* is the divisive talk?? intrepidity Dec 2020 #22
I share that opinion Rorey Dec 2020 #25
And a big m'f#(kin' wall to keep them out intrepidity Dec 2020 #13
Boy did I ever get raked over the coal yesterday Crunchy Frog Dec 2020 #16
I don't think secession is the answer. It certainly wasn't in the 1860s. LonePirate Dec 2020 #17
Only one side thought a divorce was appropriate exboyfil Dec 2020 #23
Texas is a big place BGBD Dec 2020 #20
If they left they would destroy their tax base, economy and still have to deal with the fed gov't. Thomas Hurt Dec 2020 #40
Not as many as BGBD Dec 2020 #47
Good Goddess listen to yourself MagickMuffin Dec 2020 #49
Then do better. BGBD Dec 2020 #52
Keep who exactly? MagickMuffin Dec 2020 #58
I don't think BGBD Dec 2020 #71
Biden received more votes in Texas KatyMan Dec 2020 #56
Note to self. 50 Shades Of Blue Dec 2020 #21
We're gonna need Ohio or Kentucky ... or at least one of them needs to be neutral states ... mr_lebowski Dec 2020 #27
Nooo! I'm stuck in 1 of the 18 states! davekriss Dec 2020 #30
Invasion Will Be Next 4Q2u2 Dec 2020 #31
I'm ashamed to admit that I agree. OneBro Dec 2020 #32
Secession would fall flat on its face in the 1st month. Under The Radar Dec 2020 #34
Outside of Limbaugh, Putin would sure love secession. Are you promoting that idea? tinrobot Dec 2020 #35
Guard posts and razor wire? - no thx n/t JustGene Dec 2020 #36
It's a bad idea. I cannot support it. --- I would, however, support the idea... NurseJackie Dec 2020 #37
Sudan. n/t KWR65 Dec 2020 #41
I hear the weather there is very nice this time of year. NurseJackie Dec 2020 #42
I'm good with that. Ilsa Dec 2020 #46
There is nothing that settles national discourse then a violent civil war? I don't think so. n/t KWR65 Dec 2020 #39
Screw that shit. Ilsa Dec 2020 #44
We would have to provide relocation funds etc, for good folks Roisin Ni Fiachra Dec 2020 #45
Alternative to my having to move from my home state of Texas: Paladin Dec 2020 #51
Bait thread stevil Dec 2020 #54
Came straight from Rush Limbaugh, so yeah... Same with many of the responses. MerryBlooms Dec 2020 #68
Yep. Let's encourage secession. tinrobot Dec 2020 #82
There will be no secession...ridiculous to even suggest. Demsrule86 Dec 2020 #55
LOL BannonsLiver Dec 2020 #57
my thought too Demonaut Dec 2020 #77
I hope Rush is correct about his cancer diagnosis. ecdab Dec 2020 #63
The Indians probably had it about right --- Klaralven Dec 2020 #64
Fucking treason! We have fought and died to preserve this union! denbot Dec 2020 #72
Seems like the folks that propose this (on both sides) have some things in common. Captain Stern Dec 2020 #73
Putin's dream! Dread Pirate Roberts Dec 2020 #76
Well now... Highway61 Dec 2020 #80
So, what are you doing to be prepared? Captain Stern Dec 2020 #81
Right now Highway61 Dec 2020 #83
Wrong. I'd move, in a heartbeat, to any place in this land that was totally free of fascist Roisin Ni Fiachra Dec 2020 #87
Then, why haven't you moved? What's stopping you? n/t. Captain Stern Dec 2020 #90
No state, no place, in the US is free from fascist control. Roisin Ni Fiachra Dec 2020 #100
I just read all the posts on this subthread again. I understood it the first time just fine. Captain Stern Dec 2020 #103
No national borders anyone has ever drawn have been permanent SuprstitionAintthWay Dec 2020 #91
Slaver Doctrine Mopar151 Dec 2020 #75
Didn't work last time, and a lot of people died. Big, big war. Remember? It was in all the papers. Iggo Dec 2020 #88
No, no, a thousand times no. GoneOffShore Dec 2020 #89
This is dumb fantasy Tarc Dec 2020 #94
I don't think so. That's what Russia would want rockfordfile Dec 2020 #95
The thing is that I don't think it's up to any of us. smirkymonkey Dec 2020 #96
I never suggested that Blue states secede... augyboston Dec 2020 #97
This nation splits & the world becomes dominated by Russia & China. oldsoftie Dec 2020 #99
The real problem is not red states, so much as the rural-urban divide LymphocyteLover Dec 2020 #101
also, as appealing as this might sound, it would make our global competitors very happy LymphocyteLover Dec 2020 #102
LOL..people on here really worrying about this BS like it could happen?? Bengus81 Dec 2020 #104
Can states secede? marie999 Dec 2020 #105
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