Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumBernie Sanders v the Democratic establishment: what the battle is really about
(snip)
Establishment voices will probably mock Sanders view as naive or overly idealistic. But if you think about what Sanders is arguing, perhaps he is the realist.
In 10 years of reporting about politics, almost every politician has told me their donors do not influence their behavior. If this were true, they would be the only individuals on planet Earth who are not tempted by money.
What Sanders is arguing is the opposite if he started doing big-ticket fundraisers with corporate executive and lobbyists, he would be influenced by their money. He is admitting his human flaws, and taking corrective action to make up for them.
If anything, the establishments argument is the idealistic one, and Sanders is the pragmatic one.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/28/bernie-sanders-v-the-democratic-establishment-what-the-battle-is-really-about
I believe this to be a sound analysis.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
J_William_Ryan
(1,756 posts)Not battling with each other.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)the best way to beat Trump and this issue of whether to accept big money from corporate executives and lobbyists or not is most certainly part of the debate.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)Post-Our Revolution
But as he ramps up his second bid for the presidency, Sanders is drawing support from a "dark money" nonprofit run by close associates and funded, in part, by anonymous six-figure contributions.
The organization, Our Revolution, led an effort earlier this year to draft the senator into the presidential race. After it succeeded, most of the group's staffers left to join the Sanders campaign. Its board is now considering whether to use its considerable resources to further bolster his candidacy.
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/will-the-revolution-be-monetized-bernie-sanders-dark-money-org/Content?oid=27314628
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)One is a super PAC operated by National Nurses United that was responsible for the $300,000 donation. The union, which did not respond to a request for comment, had previously spent nearly $4.8 million on pro-Sanders advertisements during the 2016 election, according to the Center for Responsive Politics
From opensecrets.org
https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/indexpend.php?cycle=2016&cmte=C00490375
"Independent Expenditures, Communication Costs and Coordinated Expenses as of December 07, 2017:
Grand Total: $4,979,225
Total For Democrats: $4,979,225
Total Against Democrats: $0
Total For Republicans: $0
Total Against Republicans: $0ixteen Thirty Fund, another D.C.-based progressive nonprofit"
The other groip, Sixteen Thirty Fund, that donated $100 000 is D.C.-based progressive nonprofit.
"The Sixteen Thirty Fund is a 501(c)(4) social welfare organization that serves as a fiscal sponsor for initiatives advocating for change."
How We Help
https://www.sixteenthirtyfund.org/how-we-help/
Their Projects
https://www.sixteenthirtyfund.org/project-directory/
About the Organization
https://www.sixteenthirtyfund.org/about-the-fund/
https://www.opensecrets.org/outsidespending/detail.php?cmte=Sixteen+Thirty+Fund&cycle=2018
So the campaign should probably adress it. However the sources don't seem to be corporations like Comcast (that spent over $30 million in lobbying dollars or Insurance companies that lobby against Medicare for all.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/03/obamacare-medicare-for-all-bernie-sander-jayapal/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CentralMass
(15,265 posts)Last edited Sun Apr 28, 2019, 04:06 PM - Edit history (1)
then ACA and at least 11 of the candidates support Medicare for all.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/politics/policy-2020/medicare-for-all/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
we can do it
(12,193 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)"Bernie Sanders three homes, from left to right, in Washington D.C., Burlington and North Hero, Vermont."
If we're talking about the influence of money shouldn't this be part of the conversation?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)personal wealth or non-wealth and accepting big money from corporate executives and lobbyists with the intention of influencing decisions on issues, policies and personnel.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Or where Senator Sanders has supported such a claim? Thank you!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)he needs to cut some of those trees down.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)He hates us. Obsessively.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Politics is a team sport, for better or for worse, and if Bernie can't work WITH the Democratic Party, he's more of a liability than an asset. I support his stands on most issues, but THE TEAM has to win, and it appears that Bernie is a Democrat ONLY when he's running for President. Naturally, this disturbs the rank-and-file members of the party.
imo.
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)I have to be careful about how I talk about this, but we have new DNC leadership, right? We have severely restricted the impact of super-delegates, right?
Because of Bernie the DNC has become a better institution, right?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)four other candidates have also signed.
While Bernie will do everything in his power to win the nomination, he is absolutely committed to the Democratic Party taking back the White House if he doesn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Theres no way that I could ever believe that Bernie would want to see Trump re-elected. But I do wish that Bernie could bring himself into the party and be a team player. Apparently, thats just not in his nature.
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)It's also why he was the first candidate to sign the pledge to support the Democratic nominee no matter who it is.
Having said that I also believe Bernie believes the preeminent consideration should be what's best for the nation, not the party.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thekaspervote
(32,793 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)for ideas he took from other Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,836 posts)but he's as much a part of the "establishment" as any of the others. I have not a single fuck to give about how any of the candidates raise money for their campaigns. The GOP get most of the big donations, and as long as our candidates' contributions are legal and accounted for, I say take whatever money any donor, large or small, offers. Then they can compete without one hand tied behind their back - they can buy ads, pay staff, and use every nickel they can raise, from whatever source, to defeat Trump. If he wins again we won't get Medicare for All, we'll get Medicare for Nobody.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)I hope you dont pass out from low oxygen from your perch on top of the mountain as you look down on us proles.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
LongtimeAZDem This message was self-deleted by its author.
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)They cannot accept the fact that their devotion does not carry over to mainstream Democrats and it frustrates them.
This whole "battle" is nothing but a conspiracy theory.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Now that takes a major leap into unicorns pooping skittles idealism.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Anothet poster ponted out Sanders takes dark money refusing to say where it comes from.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Itemize all the donors.
Itemize all the donors to the Sanders campaign.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)"If a democrat takes big donations, that person is corrupt". BS. In 2008, after Hillary conceded, I made a maximum donation to then Senator Obama. Because I technically made that donation during the primary window, I was able to make a maximum donation during the General. I made a maximum donation in the General of 2012. I did not want ONE thing other that to see him win, because the alternative sucked. A lot of big money donors (far more than I ever will give) likely feel the same way, they give democrats big money because they don't want to see republicans leading the country. For Bernie to demonize that reality is beyond the pale.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)has been in the Sanders' camp for eons.
He is known to write such divisive pieces with conspiratorial overtones. A little more and he could have a conspiracy channel of the left.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)It's amazing that conservatives still can't get over their Hillary hate.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/author/zaid-jilani/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Zaid Jilani is a journalist who hails from Atlanta, Georgia. He has previously worked as a reporter-blogger for ThinkProgress, United Republic, the Progressive Change Campaign Committee, and Alternet.
Zaid Jilani The Intercept
https://theintercept.com/staff/zaidjilani/
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)What was he writing during the general election campaign of 2016? Was he working against the Democratic nominee or is the Hillary hate something new?
I wonder why The Intercept neglected to mention his association with The American Conservative.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)about "Hillary hate" so much as a sober ideological analysis and from the OP which I posted.
(snip)
I dont think so. Between 2009 and 2012, I worked for both Shakir and Tanden at the Center for American Progress. Shakir was the editor-in-chief of ThinkProgress at the time and we both worked under Tanden.
Shakir and Tanden frequently clashed during my time there, but not a single one of their disputes was about anything personal. Instead, they argued about the role of money in politics.
(snip)
It may sound like I am portraying Tanden, Biden and the Democratic establishment as corrupt and immoral willing to sell policy and political communications to the highest bidder with no regard for the public interest.
But social psychology research tells us that people who have different ideas about politics than us are not generally bad people theyre mostly good people with different convictions. In the eyes of the Democratic establishment, courting big dollars is the only way to stay politically competitive and besides, corporations and wealthy individuals are major stakeholders in society, so why shouldnt they get a major say over policy?
(snip)
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/28/bernie-sanders-v-the-democratic-establishment-what-the-battle-is-really-about
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)A new study finds that the real divide within the Democratic Party is over authority, not race or age.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/hillary-clinton-voters-are-tilting-authoritarian/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)As I stated it was a sober ideological analysis.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)definition of "sober".
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)In 2016, I covered the Democratic National Convention as a reporter at The Intercept. I noticed a distinct personality difference between Clinton and Sanders delegates, one that could very well have been an indicator of that authoritarianism divide. The Clinton delegates viewed the event as an opportunity to promote the partys eventual nominee while the Sanders delegates used it more as a protest to raise the issues that mattered to them in order to impact the party line.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)or the role it played in helping to put Trump in the White House.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)The most shameful event I have ever seen in my life. And him sitting there grinning like the cat that ate the canary.
Some things should be remembered and are unforgivable.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
grantcart
(53,061 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
crazytown This message was self-deleted by its author.
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Bernie alienates his natural allies. His holier-than-thou attitudesaying in a very loud voice he is smarter than everyone else and purer than everyone elsereally undercuts his effectiveness.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
doompatrol39
(428 posts)...to me, it's going to be about all the other candidates and the establishment.
Last time around it was obvious and not even that unreasonable for the powers that be within the party to support Hillary over Bernie, even if I thought what Bernie was saying and doing needed to be said and done. The fact is that Hillary was a lifetime Democrat and the primary was for the nomination to the Democratic party.
This time around there are many great candidates, several of whom offer the same positions and passion and sincerity that Bernie does but who are working within the party and are registered Democrats (keep in mind, I don't even particularly care about the I vs. D issue myself but playing Devil's advocate for all the people who claimed that their only issue was that Bernie wasn't an actual registered Democrat).
To me, it will be interesting seeing how those folks who are registered Democrats are treated and whether or not there are fingers placed on the scale for one particular candidate over another (not saying who, just any candidate). That will ultimately show whether Bernie was correct in his assessments or not.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts).....just JOIN the party for more than a few months every four years and work, like many of us Democrats do, to make it better?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)it has made some changes for the better because of Bernie.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)I think they just trying to influence the election in the US.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)Who is "our ability". You ratted on yourself.
Super-delegates were one of the most un-democratic abuses to come down the pike. The DNC admitted as much by banning them on the first ballot of a disputed convention. Instead of delegates voting how they personally want to vote they are obliged to vote, NOW, for the candidate who got the most votes.
What a novel idea voting for the candidate who won.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to watoos (Reply #57)
LongtimeAZDem This message was self-deleted by its author.
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)That Bernie weakened our ability to pick the best candidates?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)Why should we work within the Democratic Party if we dont agree with anything the Democratic Party says?
- Socialist Scholars Conference, New York, April 1990
The real question is, why did the DNC accept him as a candidate?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)If he wins the delegates he needs to be nominated by the Democrats, he'll tear the shit out of Trump and win the Whitehouse for the Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)If he wins the delegates he needs to be nominated by the Democrats, he'll tear the shit out of Trump and win the Whitehouse for the Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)Zaid Jilan
Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)But yelling about billionaires and oligarchs and wagging his finger while soaking up all of the advantages accorded a sitting Senator in politics for 35+ years (including riding the coattails and using the resources of the Democratic "establishment" to advance his presidential aspirations whenever it suits him) is not "anti-establishment."
He's just managed to fool a lot of people into thinking it is.
And, FYI - "Bernie Sanders versus the Democratic" ANYTHING is precisely The reason most Democrats want no parts of him. He's not a Democrat and he can't be trusted as an ally.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)"It would be hypocritical of me to run as a Democrat because of the things I have said about the party."
- Socialist Scholars Conference, New York, April 1990.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)in regards to modern day political reality in America.
Your post just reinforces that Bernie's views do change to benefit the greater good even if the result be slings and arrows hurled at him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LongtimeAZDem
(4,494 posts)a Democrat, will never be a Democrat.
Then, he signs a pledge that says, "I'm a Democrat".
Q.E.D.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Running as a Democrat just reinforces Bernie's realism in regards to modern day political reality in America.
Your post just reinforces that Bernie's views do change to benefit the greater good even if the result be slings and arrows hurled at him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
KitSileya
(4,035 posts)Or registered to run as I-VT in 2022? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice....
(And Senator Sanders' supporters, don't bother claiming that Vermont doesn't have party registration - that's for voters, not for candidates; the Senator's Vermont colleagues have no problems being registered Democrats in Congress and on the ballot.)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)If Bernie loses the nomination, he will fight tooth and nail for the Democratic nominee in the G.E.
If Bernie loses the nomination he will run for reelection to the Senate in Vermont as an Independent and if he wins, he will continue to caucus with the Democrats in the Senate.
How does any of these scenarios damage the Democratic Party?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laelth
(32,017 posts)But this depends upon how much damage Senator Sanders does to the eventual nominee before said nominee secures the Democratic Party's nomination.
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)damaging to our nation.
He's not making this personal unless he is speaking about pathological liar Trump.
-Uncle Joe
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laelth
(32,017 posts)-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
EffieBlack
(14,249 posts)Anyone else, it's a sellout, flip-flop, etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)and exploitation. He has contempt for the Democratic party and its work over the decades.
For him to expect loyalty is rich. Claiming that the establishment is against him and play the victim is richer.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Does anyone want Bernie to run as an Independent? Doesn't take much to realize the potential consequences of that. I think everyone should take a deep breath and let the process evolve.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)the last time I checked four other candidates have also signed the pledge.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
watoos
(7,142 posts)beat Joe Lieberman, for Senate, in the Democratic primary. Lamont was quite a bit farther left than Joe. What did Joe do, what did the DNC allow him to do next? Joe never registered as an Independent, never changed his Democratic affiliation, he ran on some concocted Joe Lieberman party in the general election, Google it. Joe ends up winning the general election and fucking up Obamacare to this day. I have to assume that the DNC may be prejudiced against candidates that lean left, at least they had no objection to allowing Lieberman to run against Lamont while Joe was still a registered Democrat. Someone help me out and explain why that happened?
This is why I shudder when I hear people say that we need moderate candidates like Joe Lieberman to beat Trump.
Joe later on endorsed John McCain and that ended his caucusing with the Democrats.
Give me FDR Democratic candidates and we will be in the majority from now till the cows come home.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)and not be FDR Democrats so lost in the last century while ignoring the concerns of this century.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
watoos
(7,142 posts)Because I look upon her as an FDR Democrat.
Taking care of working people and solving income inequality bridges generations doesnt it?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)solving income inequality is not your overriding concern
There are many American's who are not working people. Seniors, children, people with disabilities, and people who have to take care of seniors/children/people with disabilities actually need more support than working Americans.
I guess when you are a carpenter you think everything is a nail.
This century has many many more problems than that side of the party sees.
That is why I don't think that side of the party is more liberal, they are more focused because they are wearing blinders.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)Other people would not let themselves be bought by money.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)views in regards to taking big money from corporations and lobbyists.
I would think the same implicit interpretation would hold true with Elizabeth as well.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)Establishment: PP, HRC, CAP, black women, women
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nycbos
(6,038 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
"Watery tarts lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government."
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
nycbos
(6,038 posts)not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
appalachiablue
(41,171 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,417 posts)Thanks for the addition appalachiablue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
rgbecker
(4,834 posts)What a pleasure to read your threads.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Thank you for the kind words rgbecker.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided