Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumWhy Warren is calling out Biden
Last edited Sat Apr 27, 2019, 09:51 PM - Edit history (1)
In evaluating VP Biden as a candidate we should consider how much Biden will be diminished by Elizabeth Warrens critique of his Bankruptcy Act. She will not go softly, and no one should expect her to. As Professor, it was her speciality and a large part of her lifes work. She argues then and now that women were hardest hit by the 2005 legislation.
President Clinton vetoed the 1999 version of the Bill with Hillary leading the opposition
In 2005 only 12 Democratic Senators voted for it.
Amongst other things the Act locked students to their debt regardless of their economic circumstances, threw sick, unemployed and divorced women out of their homes, and, on the Feds analysis, contributed to the financial crisis. A real vote winner dont you think?
Washington Post, 26 April 2019
https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/opinions/2019/04/26/why-warren-is-calling-biden-out/
Why Warren is calling Biden out
It didnt take long for Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass) to go on the offensive against newly declared presidential contender Joe Biden reminding everyone that before the former vice president was everyones beloved Uncle Joe, he was a senator who did the bidding of big finance at the expense of the American people. Our disagreement is a matter of public record, Warren said Thursday. I got in that fight because [families] just didnt have anyone, and Joe Biden is on the side of the credit card companies.
(Snip)Warren began studying families in bankruptcy in the 1980s, while teaching law at several universities. Expecting to find a bunch of loose-living people taking advantage of the system (a belief many Americans shared), she instead discovered Americans beset by stagnant incomes and increasing medical bills. The experience didnt just change her mind about why Americans seek protection from creditors in the courts; it led her to ultimately change her party registration from Republican to Democrat.
Warren took Biden on both in the New York Times and in a book she co-authored, The Two-Income Trap. She repeatedly pointed out that standing up for womens interests didnt simply mean supporting the right to choose an abortion, or backing legislation to protect women from domestic violence, but it also meant looking out for their economic rights, too. And women were more likely to turn to bankruptcy than men hit hard by what she described as a combination of unemployment, medical bills and divorce.
Warren eventually lost the battle in 2005, when more than a dozen Democratic senators joined Biden in voting for the change, which, among other things, all but eliminated the right for student loan debtors to offload privately issued student loans in court, substantially raised the cost of filing for protection from creditors and made it harder to discharge unsecured debt such as credit card bills. The change, according to the New York Federal Reserve, contributed to the subprime mortgage crisis.The reason? It made it both harder for people to afford their mortgage bills, while reducing their incentive to prioritize their housing payment over other monies owed. Thats as much a part of Bidens legacy as his time as vice president.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)yes, policies and voting record are important but they come in to ply only after we can assess who is more likely to beat trump. We only have one goal in this election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)But we should consider that Elizabeths pithy attacks on the Bankruptcy Act will be taken up by the Republicans. She wont tone it down and no one should expect her to.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)right candidate for this time in history. I could live with Elizabeth... her deep thinking on issues like bankruptcy is the right way to go.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)but this bandwagon for Biden is really annoying me.
If we elect a steady as she goes, return to normal candidate, we will get creamed in 2022, like we did in 1994 and 2010. People have had it with Reagans normal. I agree with Pete here- defending a system that is failing people waters the garden for another Trump, or worse.
All those years of people watching the heartland rust. It is wrong.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)This return to the status quo with Joe is definitely NOT the way to go. Why play it safe with "normalcy" when we should be delivering what The People are clamoring for!! Of course, they'll decide through this primary process... it's called "democracy."
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
loves_da_dems
(67 posts)Joe is a good guy, and a loyal democrat. But people want change, not a return to normalcy. MF45 stole the election but the support he got was because he promised change (and the racism). Listen to AOC she's super smart and plugged in, she gets it. Free healthcare (no more private insurance), abolish ICE, the Green New Deal. Almost everyone I talk to thinks these are great ideas.
We should be worrying about getting new voters (about half of the country doesn't vote). We don't need MF45s voters. I don't know why our party is so scared of progressive ideas, they're really popular with sane people.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I do qualify my judgments on previous administrations. The defeat in 2010 meant Obama had to shelve his infrastructure plans. The same happened to WJC.
But to avoid those defeats the new Administration has to strike down Reagans economics from the outset, and beak from the past. The next Dem President will have to master Twitter too.
AOC might have some ideas here
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)I think Sanders will be forced out fairly early in the primary.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)May the best candidate win... then, as I always say, vote blue, no matter who!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gateley
(62,683 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ancianita
(36,133 posts)You're right. Her call out is right. But rightness doesn't usually win across this country.
Her call out demands the kind of memory that makes people feel not up to the task of deciding whether her economics stands can win.
They'll also consider overall governance experience, first. Name recognition domestically. Status internationally.
Just pointing out some mitigating ground to re-examine your support with.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)He would have to make the case that you can only declare bankruptcy if you overleveraged your casino and you already used the money you borrowed for vacations and private planes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kurt V.
(5,624 posts)bc they excite you. next thing you know lots ppl are excited about your candidate
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,120 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)once he comes out from under Obama's reflected glory?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)I see no other candidate except maybe Ryan who can do this. Aso I do not believe any woman can be elected president in 20...too much sexism. I am going for the win. We must get rid of aTrump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)Strong in rust belt states. Hes for nafta, cafta, TPP etc and that doesnt play well there. Also, he was for the bankruptcy bill, as pointed out. I know he has/tries to have a blue collar persona but his positions on the issues could definitely be used against him.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)All they see is the experienced, likeable establishment savior. They don't see how people are unhappy with what the establishment has been doing for the last 25 years and how Trump exploits that without offering real solutions.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)all of them.
... we need to make sure ... strategically as a party that we don't come to be viewed as the defenders of a system that is letting people down. And we wouldn't be here if the economic and political system hadn't failed people.
... The system needs to be changed profoundly. I guess that's my point. We can't just nibble around the edges and expect people to be happy with us. Now, I've got a slightly different account than my competitors do about how best to do it, but the fundamental lesson is that our economic and political system has been letting people down I would say for my entire lifetime.
Pete Buttigieg
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Trump ran on fixing manufacturing in the rustbelt.i see no other candidate that can. Compete on this issue other than Biden. Sure we vote for whoever em emerges but it won't be enough.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Biden can take those states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)So get over yourself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But I still don't believe it. Repeating sometjing over and over doesn't make it true.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But that's not a rationale, that's a conclusion. I'm not saying he can't win, I just don't think it is so simple.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)reasons.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
loves_da_dems
(67 posts)He stole the election with the help of the Russians. Mantafort gave polling data to the Russians so they would know what votes to change. Everyone hates MF45, in a fair election any of our candidates will win. Let's nominate the most progressive candidate to help the country. The Green New Deal is the most important issue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)There's no way out of that. Warren can go on about the Bankruptcy issue until the cows come home, but she needs to convince us she can win those states instead.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)That was the difference between Obama in 2012 and Hillary in 2016.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Governors now thanks to the midterm.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
pnwmom
(108,994 posts)If there had been Democratic governors in place in 2016, Hillary could have won. As it is, she only lost by less than 80K votes across three states.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Biden has to defend his record, all of it. That is why we have primaries, to filter through stuff like what the OP posted.
It is not about who the polls say can beat Trump now, but about who people think can beat him after the debates happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)advise Sanders to address his vote for the criminal justice bill too...and some of his votes on immigration and gun laws.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mjvpi
(1,389 posts)Trump offers only fear. No legislative solutions for the problems facing our country. Any candidate that comes out of an issue/ solution based primary will beat Trump. I want to seeBidens ideas and how they will help our country. Im afraid that I see the bankruptcy bill as one of the worst bills for working class Americans, students and small entrepreneurs. Im looking forward to hearing his perspective on what he did.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)and reps the best interests of the People, which does not include corporations.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)If this were so Warren would be winning.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But neither will a blue collar messenger without a message.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)so far all I've gotten is "Trump sucks, Biden can win, and the sooner everyone realizes that, the better." I think there must be more, but nobody seems to want to tell me. Or maybe that's all we need to know?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Biden is for climate change legislation, healthcare (BFD), and he wrote the violence against women law...so woman's rights. He is for economic justice and criminal justice reform...and or course civil rights and
On January 21, 2019, Vice President Biden, the Chair of the Biden Institute at the University of Delaware, delivered remarks and was honored with the Lifetime of Excellence in Public Service Award at the annual Martin Luther King, Jr. Day breakfast hosted by Rev. Al Sharpton's National Action Network.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)But I sure hope he isn't running as a generic Democrat. That's not a very exciting message.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)and stood with Republicans in doing it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)But its still early & everyone hasnt yet begun to beat the hell out of each other.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)still having influence.
Knowing about them is not tantamount to successfully doing anything about them.
Candidates are not even acknowledging or warning; many are trying to ignore or minimize-why? I consider such candidates weak on issues of democracy and equality
One answer is that candidates who believe their strength lies with harvesting the votes of male voters who may be disenchanted with Trump and prefer to vote for a male candidate.
Women were decisive in 2018 and will be decisive in 2020.
Trump may not be the candidate; so the meme of anyone who can beat Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)As of now, the only thing stopping him from running in '20 is if he says he's not going to.
Of course the russians are still active; but there are more people watching now than 2 yrs ago. And a candidate that harps on Russians wont look as strong IMO. Doesnt mean they cant have OTHERS bring it up though. I know its early, but i'm just a bit concerned about the direction of the campaign as a whole. Just not being trump isnt going to be enough. Too many people think he's going to lose to ANYONE by 10 points and i dont see it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)A former former staffer of Kasich was on NPR taking about the possibility.
(Boehner is warning Kasich against it). I see at least 3 camps in the Republican Party.
The Mueller report is making fault lines in the Republican Party more apparent. The investigations in the House may eventually make Trump's position untenable.
The Republican Party may reach a point where to save the party they will need to dump Trump. The party is not suicidal. I myself would like to see it become just a regional phenomenon but I don't see that happening in the near future.
There are still lots of Russian connection that may be revealed. I think we may have passed the point where Trump can do a war scare to tamp down opposition and that is good for us.
If Russia sees Trump becoming a liability Putin will support someone else; same with the Republican Party.
We can't afford to assume Trump will be there to run against.
We can't afford to not build on our 2018 gains in the House, or make gain in the Senate, nor can we afford to assume that a Democratic anti-Trump candidate will hurt Republicans in the house and senate-especially if our candidate builds a campaign geared too heavily to bipartisanship.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)His base is unchanged & no Dems will cross over this primary.
For whatever reason, shit that would sink anyone else still just bounces off trump. Its ridiculous but its the "fool born every minute" phenomenon.
The 1st time i thought he was done for was during the debates when he refused to say he'd support the GOP nominee if it wasnt him. I've always known the GOP to really dislike those who arent "team players". But it didnt slow him at all. Then the McCain comments. Again, nothing. MANY times i've thought, "Well, this is it for him".
At this point i really dont know what could be revealed that would really turn the tide against him. Him being gay? A muslim? And still i'm not sure anymore!!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)motive.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)It's way too early to use polls as a measure of anything except name recognition at this point.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)And right now, he's leading everyone else. Its up to the rest of the field to show why they would be better. And up to him to get people to believe he should be there.
I want to vote FOR someone more than i want to vote AGAINST someone.
But theres nothing much that any candidate can do about their supporters slinging mud. They can only control their own staff folks.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)It won't work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
KPN
(15,650 posts)to beat tRump ... that you didnt even try.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)Here we go, for the next several months.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Graduates, Biden handcuffed you to debt and left women destitute.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Its up to Biden to get a good strong response out there early.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
delisen
(6,044 posts)and he will be glad to take their votes .So his candidacy will work against us. Our voters will lose enthusiasm, many Republicans and independents will crossover to Biden if Trump is candidate, if Republicans replace Trump before 2020 they may stick with their new party candidate anyway.
Biden will be actively seeking Republicans votes if he is the candidate and will do so under guise of "working across the aisle".
He already helped a Republican win in the house in the crucial 2018 election and would not help the Democratic opponent. He signaled then what his strategy will be in 2018 and the Republican Party has taken notice.
A Biden presidency, dependent upon Republican votes is a loss for our party and a Biden candidacy may limit our success down ballot in many states and in Congress in a crucial re-apportionment year.
We lost the re-apportionment power in many states in 2010, when Biden was vp and it hurt us badly as Republicans massively gerrymandered districts-so we when into subsequent election cycles badly weakened.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)And i guess you're also against O'rourke, since HE worked with republicans too.
If theres going to be a purity contest, guess what, NONE of the 20 candidates are going to pass it. I could list the biggest problems with the top candidates, but i'd get a hide for doing it.
The only think that matters is who can beat trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
oldsoftie
(12,597 posts)"We lost the re-apportionment power in many states in 2010, when Biden was vp"
I dont know what Biden could have done about that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
delisen
(6,044 posts)The primaries are next year. Much can happen in between.
Nothing to do with purity contests
Nothing to do with working with Republicans -just whether aiming a campaign toward Republican voters helps them down ballot and endangers re-apportionment.
Losing in 2010 was extremely damaging to the Democratic Party. Republicans seized the opportunity to gerrymander and we lost even more seats.
The best way to accept Republican support is to tell them to become Democrats.
The best way to help Democratic candidates down ballot is to support them and not the opposition candidate.
I do not believed what Biden did in 2018 in his Michigan speech and his subsequent turning down the Democrat opponent who asked only that Biden offer a few word of support for him, is acceptable behavior.
To be a voter is to wield power - if we don not use our power what good is it?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)She knows of what she speaks!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
delisen
(6,044 posts)of our issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
JI7
(89,264 posts)she isn't making him out to be some horrible immoral corrupt person.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and left women destitute.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
blm
(113,091 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)him? A primary is not a coronation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gateley
(62,683 posts)I feel she's got a lot more to give than her opposition to Biden, so I hope there's more focus by the media on other stuff she's bringing to the table.
I hope it goes beyond the soundbite of "Biden was on the side of the credit card companies" and explain the bill, so people can understand and pressure whoever gets the nom to make changes and right the wrongs. When that's all we see/hear, I think it diminishes what/who she is. Just IMO, natch. :-7
We have so many good people running who are capable of helping this country heal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)That's part of the primary process and splains why Joe lost in that process twice before. That's not damage... that's democracy!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)"Creature of Wall Street" doesn't mean corrupt, but does mean he has a blind spot when it comes to banks.
Sanders will say he is a horrible member of The Establishment.
Various others or their surrogates will say he's a great guy but pick holes in his record to highlight their own advantages.
He could die the death of 1000 cuts.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)like Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dsc
(52,166 posts)Everyone who has median income or above who files for bankruptcy has to follow the law's requirement for credit counseling and no one can discharge student loans no matter what.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)as at 11/2009, 276 debtors had brought an adverbial suit for discharge and up to 11/2009, of the 134 resolutions, 29 resulted in total or partial discharge.
http://www.law.uh.edu/ihelg/monograph/11-01.pdf
Thats 29 full or partial discharges 2006 - 2009.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
backtoblue
(11,345 posts)Warren's not going to be attacking our fellow Democrats. She's simply speaking of both her knowledge and her experience with opposing corporate greed.
Good people wind up on the wrong side of issues sometimes. Joe's good people. I love him and would be on his side if he goes to the general election.
Warren has been speaking up and doing everything she can to help the working class.
She is on the right side of these issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)how it helps us get rid of a monster but guess that's secondary?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
zentrum
(9,865 posts)I love Elizabeth. Wish it could be her.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Boomer
(4,168 posts)In 2016, the presumptive Republican candidate was supposed to be Jeb Bush, not Trump.
The winner of the presidential race was supposed to be Hillary Clinton, not Trump.
So I'm not buying the argument that Biden is the only candidate who can beat Trump. Nothing has been going according to plan for years, traditional wisdom is out the window, and this early in the game no one is a sure bet for anything.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Nay
(12,051 posts)of a monster.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,497 posts)(lol at Consumer Protection)
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00044#position
Bold are still in the Senate
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Byrd (D-WV)
Carper (D-DE)
Conrad (D-ND)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Not Voting - 1
Clinton (D-NY) (supported its passage by was absent for final vote)
Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2001
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=107&session=1&vote=00036
these are the only Senators who voted against it
bold are still in the Senate
NAYs
Brownback (R-KS)
Hutchison (R-TX)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Harkin (D-IA)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Present - 1
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Not Voting - 1
Boxer (D-CA)
Senators Adopt Tougher Rules On Bankruptcy
By PHILIP SHENON
Published: March 16, 2001
https://www.nytimes.com/2001/03/16/us/senators-adopt-tougher-rules-on-bankruptcy.html
snip
President Bill Clinton vetoed similar legislation in his final weeks in office, describing it as too harsh on consumers.
The bill's quick resurrection after Mr. Bush's inauguration was seen as evidence of the generous campaign contributions made to each party by the credit industry. It also reflected the growing power of lobbyists in a government in which the White House and Congress are run by business-friendly Republicans.
Some of the same lobbyists had a significant victory last week, when the House and Senate voted to overturn regulations intended to protect workers from repetitive-stress injuries.
For many of the more than one million Americans whose financial troubles are expected to force them into bankruptcy next year, the bill would end their ability to use the bankruptcy system to wipe out credit-card bills and other loans that are not secured by homes or other assets.
Instead, they would be forced to pay off some or all of those debts under a court-supervised plan, even if that puts the payment of old credit-card bills in competition with the payment of current child support, alimony and other court-ordered expenditures.
snip
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheFarseer
(9,326 posts)That turd Ben Nelson voted for it and anti-choice gay hating religious wackos still didnt love him. Go figure.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)I don't know, but doing the Republican's oppo work is not a good look for Elizabeth Warren.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Do you expect her to pull her punches?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demit
(11,238 posts)It's hardly a secret to be ferreted out by opposition researchers.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
delisen
(6,044 posts)having a Democratic president who will work for the credit card industry and against the people.
Biden is no longer the senator from Delaware-the credit card industry state.
Biden can let us know where he stands now and what he will do as president. Warren's criticism is an opportunity for Joseph Biden to address a crucial issue.
I think he should take that opportunity and be totally honest.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Just a hunch.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)Student debt was a big rallying point for Beto during his Senate campaign
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)Personally I think that would be a great ticket strategically. I think Warren and Harris are great but California is already a lock, MA too, and we need a veep who can bring in rust belt swing states.
(corrected)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)But this is a real issue that Biden needs to acknowledge and address
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)If it's going to be a problem especially.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)student debt is too high overall - whether nor not you can discharge it in bankruptcy only applies to a few cases. Nobody wants a bankruptcy on their record, and many, many debts are the usual reason for filing one. It's not just a routine after you graduate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Would much rather see Warren at Treasury. (And Harris on the ticket)
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Laelth
(32,017 posts)Joe has defended the banks since the time that a ton of them moved to Delaware to profit from Delaware's banker-friendly laws. Does the law referenced in the OP suck? Yes. Do I blame Biden for it? Only peripherally. As a Senator from Delaware, he was under enormous pressure to support it.
-Laelth
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)so I can't link to it now -- there was a subthread pointing out that Warren opposed the medical device tax to help fund the ACA, sided with Republicans there, because of the importance of the medical device industry in her state.
MA Sen. Ed Markey also wanted to repeal that tax.
As was pointed out in that subthread, politicians typically will represent prominent industries in their state.
And, as President Obama said, Warren is "a politician like everyone else."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gateley
(62,683 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)I am sensitive to criticism from those I respect. It wasnt necessary to go into the latest sniping to make the point that Warren will be on the offensive on Bankruptcy.
I found the medical devices discussion quite informative. I didnt delete the OP to cover that up.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)searched for the thread with your user name, included several links to posts in that subthread in an earlier draft of my last message...and then discovered even those separate links to individual replies didn't work. Sigh...
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
highplainsdem
(49,034 posts)Linking to your new thread:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128795812
Again, thank you for reposting those replies to your old thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)That was a good subthread.
p.s. it starts here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=95275
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I don't think it's a good idea to make a moral crusade out of opposing a vote or position held by a fellow Democrat. Both Sanders and Warren did that with the TPP and down in flames it went. I think they were wrong and I think it hurt Clinton. In both cases it did grave damage. I don't know enough about this law to say whether Warren is 100% right or wrong but on principle I don't think she's taking a good approach.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)I know, it is stupid to attack them for these things and especially one who is a Senator also.
Be positive about it - they were doing what they should - represent their state. So it follows they would do the same for the entire country if elected POTUS.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)the interests of PEOPLE over that of corporations far more than your average moderate politician. This is not your aunt and uncle's Democratic Party anymore!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)to say a word about Biden/Credit cards or Booker/pharmaceuticals.
They are all good, because they looked out for their state, which is the what a Senator is supposed to do. Thus they will look out for the nation when that is what they represent. Good grief, even Bernie has issues!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
gateley
(62,683 posts)My only (maybe?) rationale was that the credit cabal was the largest employer in his state -- justified it in his mind by convincing himself he was protecting the workers? I'm just projecting that on him because I'm hoping he's seen how it's affected so many people -- I actually have no idea, of course, where he's at on this.
I understand Warren's anger and frustration on this -- justified, IMO -- but it's done. It's over. We all know what happened in the past and what is important is what Joe -- or anybody -- will/can do to begin to right the wrongs NOW.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)which under the Bankruptcy Act they can not escape even if impoverished.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)and the courts have interpreted it to make it a very extreme hardship you have to claim.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)You have to bring an adverbial lawsuit against the loan provider, and then the question becomes, if you can afford to file and pay for a lawyer, why cant you afford the loan repayments?
And if you can pass that test, a private provider will seek endless adjournments while all the while you are obliged to continuing paying the debt you cant afford. 0.1% of student loans are discharged by court application.
Of course, the most impoverished can not afford it and proceed to Chapter 13.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)that argument should never be used anywhere (I did have it used by Family court to deny a petition not to have to pay filing fees due to poverty which the excuse that the person had a lawyer) but you have a right to counsel and Bankruptcy court recognizes that. The lawyer is not going to cost so much that it would be enough to pay off the entire debt, anyway.
But it is very difficult to meet the test - a disability where you can't work is what it takes.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)That is what Warren is arguing.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)is not a good one. A true leader leads his constituents - AND BUSINESS!! - in the right direction... protection of The People's rights is paramount!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)In 1998 Bernie Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.
Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime.
(see that link - that's what's known as backing up one's claims about politician's voting records with data. You're welcome!)
I am also not finding any statements he made about regretting those votes. Maybe you know if he did? Or maybe you can defend those votes Bernie cast for military action in Iraq?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(153,193 posts)um....no it is not
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LakeArenal
(28,845 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
treestar
(82,383 posts)Not why others shouldn't.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and went to the Senate floor to argue the case against Senators serving credit card companies and big banks.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)I lived in Delaware during that time. Small state, big employer (Maryland Bank).
Why is it so easy to incorporate in Delaware? The DuPont company. Are people here corporatists? Not really. They just wanted DuPont to profit because so many of them worked there.
And the small businesses profit from the fact that others were employed and could spend their money in the businesses.
Thus if Joe does as well for the US as for Delaware, then he's good. Be positive. Stop trying to make people evil - it may be fun, but also dumb, as if EW did a good job for her state, there is going to be something she was for that seemed to "serve" some big Corp or part of The Establishment.
Tired of this one, also with Booker and the pharmaceuticals. No way any Senator is going to be immune. Even Bernie has his issues on this one.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Biden, then a veteran senator from Delaware, was a lead supporter of the bankruptcy law changes sought by financial services giants. Indeed, he was such a staunch advocate of the credit card companies that he acquired the moniker the senator from MBNA, a reference to a large credit card company then based in Delaware that gave a substantial amount of money to Bidens campaign coffers over the years. And he promoted the idea that too many people were simply seeking a way to skip out on their debts and stick the rest of us with the bill. An awful lot of people are discharging debt who shouldnt, he said at one 2001 Senate hearing. I am so sick of this self-righteous sheen put on anybody who wants to tighten up bankruptcy is really anti-debtor. Its worth noting that Bidens son Hunter worked at MBNA for five years and was retained as a consultant for another five all while Biden was backing the bankruptcy bill that would help MBNA.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
treestar
(82,383 posts)That except admits it was a big DE employer.
If I wanted to be negative I could find similar things on others. I don't think being negative is a good thing in this cycle.
And we can't just have the loans made and then let them be discharged in bankruptcy as a routine. It is hard on everyone. The answer is not dischargeable debts in bankruptcy. That's when you are in extreme trouble. That issue needs to be attacked much closer to the root than the possibility of bankruptcy discharge.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)and I would not expect anything less, but the operation of that legislation imposed undue hardship on vulnerable people, which was what Warren was arguing at the hearings. When the Lehman went under in 2008, the consequences were dire, unintended perhaps, but foreseeable.
The examples Warren raised, women unexpectedly ill, unemployed or subject to divorce were significant and ignored.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)If a person gets hit with an enormous medical bill, with no hope of paying it, faced with losing his home over it, he can't even file bankrtupcy, when in my mind that is precisely what bankruptcy is for.
I have to ask, if not for these two huge things, what can an ordinary person discharge in bankruptcy? A bunch of shopping bills he irresponsibly ran up? But someone, through no fault of his own, can't discharge a large medical debt? That makes no sense. And is just wrong. And hurts the average person.
People like Trump seem to have no trouble unloading their irresponsible debts from bad business decisions.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Can you give me some references?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)If you can prove undue hardship.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Any debt save taxes candidate be discharged. Student loans can be discharged if undue hardship can be proven.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Beartracks
(12,821 posts)... I think they will come after you to reinstate the debt.
At least, that's how it is with student loan discharge for disability.
================
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)But not the case with medical bills.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buckeyeblue
(5,501 posts)Why weren't these laws re-examined with the banking reform bills in 2008?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)Bankruptcy (7) is.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Buckeyeblue
(5,501 posts)With the 2005 law. I'm going on memory here rather than facts (big mistake I know). Which means if you are trying to get out from under huge credit card debt, you might have to give up assets. So suddenly the unsecured credit card debt becomes secured.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)And debts. You can keep your home almost always too. Even student loans can be discharged if undue hardship can be proven.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)You have to bring an adversarial lawsuit against the loan provider, pleading undue hardship. So you have to have the funds to file and compensate a lawyer. Catch 22. If you can afford this, why cant you afford your loan repayments?
After that, a private provider can seek an adjournment or three while you are still obliged to meet the repayments you cant afford. Only 0.1% of student loans are discharged by court application.
The most impoverished dont have the money to file anything and lose everything but the debt.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,667 posts)And bankruptcy cost money before it was changed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)to support her point of view. Much of the information she links to is 11-17 years old.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden