Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumMy gripe with Biden: he's the Safe choice.
Don't be wrong. Joe Biden is a good and decent man. I don't agree with everything he did in his career - he needs to be educated on some issues (like what women have to deal with in terms of sexual harassment, for example.)
My biggest gripe is that he's the safe choice, because that actually makes it harder for him to win the election.
Michael Dukakis was a safe choice.
Al Gore was a safe choice.
John Kerry was a safe choice.
And they didn't win (or they let their elections get close enough to steal.)
They were uninspiring, dull, and hard for a lot of people to identify with.
This is just my opinion but we need a candidate with some fire. Barack Obama has fire. Even if you can't stand Bernie Sanders, you've got to admit he's got fire.
That's my gripe. If Biden wants to win this, he needs to show us some fire, and not play it safe.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)and
more importantly
times are different.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
crazytown
(7,277 posts)who was safer?
2020. If Biden is not a safe choice, who is safer?
In Primaries, safe is a relative term. Every choice carries risks.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
karynnj
(59,504 posts)As to Kerry, he had a stronger activist background than any viable candidate in my life time. From Vietnam to fighting the Contras drug and gun running to fighting BCCI, he had a history that never made him a "safe choice". In addition, he was not the party favorite in either of his first two successful elections - for Lt Governor or Senator -he beat the overwhelming favorite both times.
In 2004, had there been enough voting machines in Ohio, he would have pulled off a stunning defeat of a war time President, who was at 60% the year before election. There are models that estimate the likelihood for an incumbent to win election. The actual shows that Kerry made a noncompetitive race competitive. Not to mention, his choice of Obama gave him a platform that gave him a leg up to win 2008.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)This is why there was such backlash with the recent attacks against Biden. He is one of the best in this area. Truly one of the best. It's one of his top issues and priorities. It's the whole cornerstone of his robust Foundation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,446 posts)Also.. pardon my asking.. but, didn't you change from Elizabeth to Biden?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)I changed from Harris to Biden. I was completely in Warrens corner until she put additional restrictions on her fundraising efforts. That should be done through campaign finance reform.
I told myself I would only vote for a woman in the primaries. Grrrr
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,446 posts)from Harris to Biden(in solidarity) when the attacks came from those who wanted him to not run.
It's not about anything for me except to Win.. and I really do like Biden. I'm still interested in most of the candidates and appreciate that they are running.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
leftofcool
(19,460 posts)Joe has fire without all the anger issues.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Shell_Seas
(3,335 posts)Not to be Debbie Downer, but I'm worried that at the end of the day, we will all be f#$%ed anyway.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,631 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
OhZone
(3,212 posts)I find a safe choice very , very exciting.
A good contrast to the insane, corrupt, traitorous, chaotic, unstable, lying criminal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,230 posts)We want normalcy. We want to win.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marylandblue
(12,344 posts)The world has changed. Trump is a symptom of the change, not a cause. This is really about what you want the new normal to look like. I don't think it looks like Biden and I sure as hell don't want it to look like Trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DownriverDem
(6,230 posts)Biden/Harris would be a formidable ticket.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
yaesu
(8,020 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
unblock
(52,279 posts)the best candidate (not necessarily the one who would make the best president) is the one who captures the mood of the nation at the time.
in times of crisis and confusion and chaos, a by the book, steady hand could be very attractive, even if that same candidate might seem "boring" in times of stagnancy.
donald fraud is obviously going to continue to hold the "interesting" and "attention-seeking" side of the spectrum along with a lot of the votes of people looking for that.
staking out ground as tried and true, return to normalcy, boring even, that's actually not a bad strategy at all for these times, even if it could be disastrous in other times.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
louis c
(8,652 posts)...Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin and I'll join your side.
But, Warren is barely 14% in Massachusetts in the primary polls, running third.
Warren has problems with just 2 constituencies: People who don't know her and people who do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,524 posts)Can you make a post without taking a shot at Warren? People who know her think a lot of her. And in case you forgot, Biden has run twice and lost. Polls don't mean a lot at this stage, and sometimes even in October as 2016 showed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
louis c
(8,652 posts)..I'm not letting it go by.
Nobody in this country knows Warren better than Massachusetts residents. Probably no state in the union wants to beat Trump more than us, as our state rates Trump at the lowest end of the unfavorable ladder. We want to win and we know Warren, although a good Senator, will get clobbered in a national election.
As a result, she's at 14% in her home state. Fourteen percent. You can talk all you want about early polls don't mean anything, but I'm going to bet Biden is well above 14% in Delaware and Bernie is well above 14% in Vermont.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,524 posts)For someone even questoning or criticizing Biden in a discussion forum? Wow.
You keep repeating your unprovable opinion that she will lose a national election as if it's fact. You don't know that. She has never run a national race, while Biden has run for president - twice- and lost twice. That's a fact. Polls and opinions are not facts. To say that she will "get clobbered" is to put it nicely absurd.
BTW, in the state where you claim nobody likes her, Warren won with 60 percent of the vote in her last election. Another fact. Try using them, they are much better than base emotions like revenge.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
louis c
(8,652 posts)...it's making a factual point. She can't win the primary because every knowledgeable person knows that Trump will slaughter her in a general election.
I love Liz. I've worked on her Senatorial campaign out of my union hall,.I was a Warren delegate to the convention that helped clear the field for her in the primary (15% delegate threshold to appear on the state primary ballot 7 years ago. I helped make sure her opponent did not reach that threshold). Revenge? not at all. Pragmatism. She's wasting time and resources better spent in supporting another candidate. At 14% in Mass., a savvy politician would be reassessing, not doubling down.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Bradshaw3
(7,524 posts)Your "reasoning" is flawed to say the least. No, opinion is not a factual point, no matter how much you believe it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
louis c
(8,652 posts)She's losing in Massachusetts and New Hampshire by a mile. If she can't win there, where can she win the nomination?
She's a good Senator. Policy minutiae is important there. But she is unqualified for an executive position: Mayor, Governor or President. She's a professor. She makes good Senator or UN Ambassador.
She does not connect with crowds. It's like being in class. People don't warm up to her. If Hillary couldn't beat Trump, a less likable version of Hillary is toast. Now, before you go off on a gender thing, I love Harris and she's my second choice. If Biden falters and Kamala is still in it, that's my candidate. Amy Klobucher really connects with audiences. Smart and crisp, without pandering. If Biden gets the nomination, I hope he picks Harris. She really helps the ticket in Florida. If Biden wins the nomination and he picks Klobucher for VP, that solidifies the mid-west. I prefer Harris. Warren would be an anchor and contribute nothing to the ticket. This election is all about winning, and Warren can't win either the primary, or, God forbid if she is nominated, the election or help the eventual nominee as a VP candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Siwsan
(26,286 posts)I guess that does make him my "safe" choice.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
flamingdem
(39,314 posts)I think he'll bring it home for us. We do need young people on board and I hope he can attract them..
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Why? They live resiliency and see that possibility in others. As we get older, we feel our restrictions, and see the possibility of decline in our aging fellows. But college students, only one youth demographic admittedly, live in a daily world where influencers, role models, mentors introducing them to new ideas, schooling them in history, imparting wisdom and encouragement, are often decades older than they are. By and large these mentors lean toward liberal values. College is a great inter generational microcosm. And it is college students who are getting re-engaged politically. At least among these potential voters,Bidens age alone will not be an insurmountable barrier.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
flamingdem
(39,314 posts)with their children - my era was more about don't trust anyone over 30!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
rzemanfl
(29,566 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Honeycombe8
(37,648 posts)It was a perplexing choice from the start. I certainly didn't choose him.
I agree with you on Gore & Kerry, though. But we don't know if any other choice would have been better.
What someone describes as a safe choice is merely the choice by the majority of voting Democrats. A loss is a loss for a variety of reasons. It could be the Dem. candidate, or it could be the Republican candidate is just so charismatic to the Republicans. That's what happened to all of Obama's and Clinton's foes, Dem. & Republican alike.
Policy positions have little to do with it, IMO. They're all Democrats and hold, generally, the same views. They just differ on how to address the issues. It's iffy to vote for that, since people change plans all the time. Either they change their minds, or the plan they had in mind can't be passed, or the situation changes.
It's the force of personality. The charisma. The leadership. The personality. That's what Trump and George W Bush had, despite being incompetents. Obama, Bill Clinton.
Obama was moderate. Not as corporate-friendly as Biden, but still fairly moderate. But he was so special. He was irresistible, to me, anyway.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)I'm with you Honeycombe8
which is why an ol fart like Bernie is perceived as charismatic to so many, and falls flat with others.
'I just don't like him' is a worn refrain on this forum.
While its easy to pass that off as opinions of people who aren't really digging into problems facing society in any substantial way, I do believe it is deeper. They don't have problems.
For instance, just recently, many regular posters here admitted they had never even met their mayor! So, no town hall participation? No problems that need to be addressed? Everything is fine?
Well then, no wonder they don't find Bernie charismatic. No wonder he upsets them.
Very frustrating to hear such dismissals. If everything is fine, then say it is. Just say straight out all you want is to not rock the boat because you are doing fine. And stop repeating talking points of identity politics like the latest hair style or plot line from some daytime soap.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
seaglass
(8,173 posts)your assumptions that people who do not want Bernie as President have no hopes and dreams and everything is just fine.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
emmaverybo
(8,144 posts)Americans are divided, anxious, shocked daily with Trumps chaos and lawlessness. We need recovery time and a return to agreement on the democratic values that unite the majority, despite the barbaric hordes at the gate. They have always been there. But Trump and GOP gave them the key.
So far, Biden is the first among our candidates to make the appeal to transcendent values that form the bedrock for policy.
I felt safe under Obamas leadership. When we feel unsafe, threatened, we are vulnerable to demagoguery.
Personally, unknown and unproven quantities, policies yet to have majority support, not where I want to invest.
And heart. We could use some warmth; weve seen hes capable of fire too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)The impetus is here now for real change.
Rolling over and playing dead (or dreaming again) is a very dangerous posture.
Polls show there is an agreement on values, and that they are very forward looking.
A Green New Deal is needed NOW. No more slumping back into the lethargy of complacence.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
vsrazdem
(2,177 posts)place. We cannot start from the center any longer, as it always gets dragged to the right.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
robbedvoter
(28,290 posts)Is 3 million close?
Other than that, who says it's safe? Other white men?🔩 that!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
madaboutharry
(40,216 posts)He is not my first choice, but I think if he ends up the nominee that he will be a great candidate and a great president.
"They were uninspiring, dull, and hard for a lot of people to identify with..."
I don't think Biden is any of these things. I find him the opposite.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Looks more America the Great of old than the MAGA in charge.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
peggysue2
(10,836 posts)at the Electrical Worker's Union. Joe has fire in the belly, not merely to beat Trump but to steer the country back from the brink.
He's just getting started and today's official announcement was the shot across the bow. We're fighting for our survival. That alone should light a fire in everyone.
Joey Biden is on the move. Watch for it!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
x1000.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,446 posts)and his campaign is very exciting to me.
Something about bringing back our Democracy excites the hell outta me!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ancianita
(36,128 posts)Make your "safe" argument to our allies, or the millions Lizard has put out of
any insurance coverage.
Tell it to disaster victims still without help,
women and girls,
black communities,
immigrants,
Flint residents.
Tell it to those who suffer the multiplied threats to our national security, economy, food security and water over climate change,
not just the 4 out of 5 who live paycheck to paycheck in this country.
We don't need safe.
We need SOLID.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)...it is still a logical fallacy.
But of course, we may yet predicate our opinions and gripes on logical fallacies and stay fully within our rights.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)bring working class american voters back to the democratic party as they are turned off by the calls of all the free give aways and free handouts and why GOP made such huge gains with them over the past 25 years. Biden can offer policy issues that are continuation of Obama admin that trump/gop have wrecked.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)be no safe choice.
Serious question: Is a world where we don't play Russian roulette with the lives of 330,000,000 Americans even worth living in?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
walkingman
(7,642 posts)himself from corporate America I think he might be a good choice. Just for perspective I am a huge fan of AOC but I realize that we absolutely have to win at all costs. I think the progressive movement might be more realistic a few steps at a time. Climate Change is on top of my list, healthcare reform next, followed by ending these meaningless wars, and real immigration reform with a valid guest worker program.
I am sick and tired of these lily white assholes destroying my plant so they can stuff their pockets at the expense of working people.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demit
(11,238 posts)He's getting the backing of all the big money boyz. David Cohen of Comcast is the host for the big fundraiser tonight. And the guy who runs the law firm that helps employers fight back against unions. He calls himself Middle Class Joe but he's always backed policies that favor corporations.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eko
(7,332 posts)"Vice President Joe Biden joined New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo at a media event in New York City on Thursday. They were there to celebrate the states newly minted $15 hourly minimum wage for fast-food restaurants, which will phase in over the next few years. Mr. Biden, who is weighing a run for the White House, seems to be courting organized labor just in case. Taking the stage, he praised the minimum wage as smart and reasonable."
https://www.epionline.org/oped/joe-biden-and-the-15-question/
That was in 2015.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
walkingman
(7,642 posts)pandering. I also think his Anita Hill excuses are weak - no one is perfect but any Democrat is better than what we have now. If Biden can beat these assholes then he will get my vote. I am not committing yet. We have a lot of excellent candidates. I do think if Biden comes out ahead then he might consider someone that can get young people to the polls.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Republicans were stunned when the White House was unexpectedly taken away in 1992. They devoted the next 4 years to hatred against Bill Clinton and everything he stood for. The 1994 midterm was such a rousing success for them that they rationalized that a well-respected long time senator well into his 70s was a fine choice to oppose Clinton in 1996.
Meanwhile I remember not being scared at all. If you're going to take that type of strategic route against an incumbent, be my guest. I've always believed that it takes charisma and special qualities to knock out a presidential incumbent, especially if his party has been in power only one term -- like Clinton '96 and Trump '20.
The GOP would never make that mistake again. Bob Dole may have been highly respected and admired, enough to be chosen as vice presidential running mate, just like Biden. But Dole had already sought the presidency multiple times and never come close. He was quick to exit in 1980. He fared better in 1988, winning Iowa but then ganged up on by Bush 43 cronies, and swamped.
IMO, we are placing too much weight on Biden's 8 years as vice president while ignoring how he fared while campaigning on his own. Fall 2020 he would be on his own against an incumbent.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)Trump is doubling down on his base strategy.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DonaldsRump
(7,715 posts)Safe is what we need to at least have a shot to get back on track as a country and as a world. Dear Leader has done a fine job in dividing us and wreaking havoc nationally and internationally. I want SAFE. I have had enough of this buffoon who is the quintessential outsider, who is so outside, we really no nothing about him.
There are some outstanding candidates, but I really want "safe" right now. Getting someone like Biden as P and Kamala Harris as VP, would be an excellent compromise, opening the door for Senator Harris and these outstanding candidates in years to come.
That being said, I will absolutely support whoever is our nominee and his/her VP pick. There is absolutely no other option.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Codeine
(25,586 posts)in a tumble dryer on high, accompanied by several cinder blocks and an angry housecat. The idea that people might want a quiet moment on the couch with a cup of tea and some Seinfeld reruns makes perfect sense. Sometimes safe, rational normalcy is an entirely rational choice.
Im ready for some excitement and change, but I wont condemn anyone for thinking that a safe bet is, well, the safe bet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Justice
(7,188 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,435 posts)We have to defeat trump. There is a very good chance that trump will win if we pick a weak or unsafe choice. There are posters who believe that we can nominate the most liberal/socialist nominee as possible and that candidate will easily win because everyone hates trump. It is their position that this is a historic opportunity to nominate someone would otherwise not be electable.
From Larry Sabato https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-economy-got-nixon-reagan-and-bush-reelected-it-could-do-it-for-trump-too/2019/04/23/b8920d34-65e6-11e9-a1b6-b29b90efa879_story.html?utm_term=.a35b315730d2
Credit the powers of incumbency and a strong economy, the state of which may matter more to Trumps odds than nearly anything else. Incumbency and the economy, among other matters, ended up being more than enough for Nixon, Reagan and Bush. Despite Trumps unprecedented outlandishness, that same combination might work for him, too.
Most POTUS are re-elected if the economy is good. Here is a scary study that shows this
Link to tweet
There are good reasons to doubt this study
Link to tweet
I do not believe that trump is assured of winning. If we want to win, Democrats need to nominate a strong nominee who is NOT too far out of the mainstream
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,710 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
LakeArenal
(28,831 posts)Ive been to a Joe event. Hes neither dull nor uninspiring.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SCantiGOP
(13,871 posts)To make a case that a safe choice is a bad thing for a political candidate.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
UniteFightBack
(8,231 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Kentonio
(4,377 posts)He's always been passionate. It's when that passion leads to unnecessary gaffes that the problems start.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided