So...what's the draw of Biden?

[TCJ70]

Beyond "OnLy He CaN bEaT tRuMp!" nonsense, is there anything policy-wise making him stand out from our other candidates? Someone make the case for him without just saying he can win. That's a garbage argument and was used (along with other, more valid, arguments) with the last candidate we ran and we saw how that ended up.

[mitch96]

1. I think its the draw of a better time.

He's been around, knows the ropes. Old white men will vote for him.
m

[WeekiWater]

2. How many of our candidates have successfully spearheaded such a major effort.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_Against_Women_Act

[cannabis_flower]

44. He successfully spearheaded this one too

Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violent_Crime_Control_and_Law_Enforcement_Act

But anytime it's brought up his supporters say hush... It ushered in an era of mass incarceration, civil forfeiture and police abuse that rivals any other country.

[WeekiWater]

48. I don't recall saying hush.

It was a bad move. A really bad move. A really really bad move.

It also doesn't negate my response.

It's clear we agree on one thing, Biden is a leader.

[cannabis_flower]

54. It was quite that exact word and

I don't think it was you. I have brought it up before. There's also the banking issues and his failure to evolve on these issues.

[WeekiWater]

58. It wasn't me. NT

[cannabis_flower]

60. You can read, right?

I just said it wasn't you!

[rusty fender]

72. Didn't Biden spearhead the effort

to prevent student loan holders from ever filing for bankruptcy

[cannabis_flower]

85. Yes I believe he did.

The was the banking bill I was referring to.

https://www.democracynow.org/2015/10/20/joe_biden_for_president_media_buzz

Biden’s 1994 crime bill, while implementing sweeping gun control, also helped fuel mass incarceration with financial incentives to keep people behind bars. Biden is also known for close ties to the financial industry, notably helping push through a 2005 bill that made it harder for consumers to declare bankruptcy. According to The New York Times, the credit card issuer MBNA was Biden’s top donor from 1989 to 2010. Now, as speculation over Biden’s presidential aspirations reaches a fever pitch, the Obama administration is seeking to repeal one of his key legislative achievements. The White House wants to undo a provision in the 2005 bankruptcy law that made it harder to reduce student debt, preventing most Americans from claiming bankruptcy protections for private student loans. The administration’s effort follows the publication last month of an International Business Times exposé by David Sirota, “Joe Biden Backed Bills to Make It Harder for Americans to Reduce Their Student Debt.” Sirota discusses Biden’s role in passing the legislation.

[rusty fender]

90. This fact about Biden can't be all that appealing

to student debt holders

Thank you for including that paragraph and link in your post

[cannabis_flower]

93. Sure is a contrast

To Elizabeth Warren!

[rusty fender]

102. Ain't that the truth!

[gateley]

117. I'm not sure he spearheaded it

but he was was a proponent. I would LIKE to think it was because it was the largest employer in the State (kind of like Boeing or Microsoft in my State) but I don't know. I DO know Joe has integrity, he wasn't "bought off" and that's when (if i recall correctly) he introduced the Violence Against Women maybe to try to right a wrong?

Totally speculation on my part, I HATE that he was involved in this but even though I don't know his motives I sincerely believe his intentions were pure. Just wrong.

[Demsrule86]

123. Careful Sanders voted for the crime bill.

[cannabis_flower]

130. What's your point?

You don't see Sanders under my name, do you?

[TCJ70]

61. This is the kind of stuff I'm looking for. Thank you.

[WeekiWater]

74. Your welcome.

He really does have some great accomplishments along with some really bad ones. One thing that cannot be argued against with any of them is that he is a leader.

I think a big part of the appeal with Biden is his extensive knowledge of the federal government. Trump has decimated agency after agency and Biden already knows the people to put in place to restore stability. He will also immediately garner respect on the world stage from out allies.

I cannot overlook some of Bidens really bad legislative moves. You will not see me excuse them. I do think he has learned and I also understand that he has to fall mostly in line with the party platform of today. That platform is more progressive than many give it credit for being. My final point in alleviating my concern about some of Bidens legislative history is that most of it will be formed by our members in the house.

[BannonsLiver]

3. Why not just figure it out yourself?

Sounds like you’ve already made up your mind, but there is a wealth of information on Biden online and in books.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

6. Yes, there is a wealth of information.

[DownriverDem]

22. Same for

Bernie too.

[katmondoo]

103. Maybe that is why I am not supporting Sanders this time

[TCJ70]

7. Is this NOT a discussion board? There are people here passionate about his candidacy...

...so I asked about him. I haven't made up my mind about anything yet so take that chip off your shoulder and give it a rest.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

12. They don't have an answer to your legitimate question... only crickets!!

Chirp, chirp!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[DownriverDem]

24. I do

Read my answer below. BTW having a candidate that can beat trump should be priority #1.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. Yes you do... tip of the hat to you!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Codeine]

37. Looks like a couple dozen people

answered quite succinctly. I would posit that the OP understands exactly why people support Biden and that his questions do not represent an honest attempt to gain information.

[sheshe2]

83. Yes.

[TCJ70]

86. I've thanked several people for their replies...n/t

[MineralMan]

14. Actually, I think "passion" is not really in play with Biden.

More like "reason." I'm in that category. My reasoning is that he will appeal to a broader spectrum of Democratic voters than any of the other candidates. If that's the case, then, he'll become the leader in polling, as time passes. I also reason that he would have a good chance of defeating Trump by pulling in votes from even unexpected places. My reasoning is that his experience and apparent stability will also draw voters.

But, passion? That's not in any way my criterion for voting for any primary candidate.

[LanternWaste]

91. Seems you're simply asking others to do simplistic and obvious research for you.

Try not to confuse the implication of your laziness with the inference of their shoulder chips.

[TCJ70]

94. There are so many posters here who have been excited about his candidacy for so long now...

...that I honestly expected more positive responses. I've gotten some good ones and thanked those posters for their responses.

Then there are responses like yours.

[still_one]

35. gee, you are right, I just tried it

https://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm

[JustAnotherGen]

98. +1 n/t

[emmaverybo]

43. Promise Me Dad, his own book

As good a place as any to start. Not only about his son’s illness and death, but his own experiences as a public servant with a long history.
Look at speech before NAACP in 2012, address to soldiers on fallen sisters and brothers, debate performances; views on climate change going back 30 years, VAWA, what it entailed and his personal involvement in it, voting record over a lifetime, criticism of Iraq war, views on healthcare access, wage, taxes...
True, you will find more moderate positions on policy than our progressive candidates, but a long history of support for Wade vs. Roe, social security, and Medicare, worker’s rights and issues.

[jalan48]

4. Everybody loves classic rock!

[themaguffin]

5. I can't take a thread seriously that dismisses beating trump as "nonesense"

[TCJ70]

9. The outcome is good...using it as an argument for a candidate is nonsense.

Those are two different things.

[themaguffin]

15. No, it's essential

[TCJ70]

62. Yes. Beating Trump is essential. n/t

[LanternWaste]

92. Can you support your premise with objective evidence?

Or is "using it as an argument for a candidate is nonsense" simply another simplistic bumper sticker used in place of the very discussions you allege to seek here?

Two different things, indeed...

[TCJ70]

97. We need to beat Trump. FACT.

Only [Candidate X] can beat Trump. OPINION.

Ultimately we won't know if any candidate can beat Trump until November of next year...which is why that argument used in support of any candidate is nonsense.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

13. Instead of distorting what the poster said, why not just answer the question.Unless you don't have 1

Cue the crickets... chirp, chirp!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[themaguffin]

16. I distorted nothing. Check your arrogance elsewhere.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

23. Denying what you said is the epitome of "arrogance," as you claim.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[themaguffin]

34. So now, you're on to straw men? I don't deny what I said. You can scroll up and read it again

or maybe for the first time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

75. You DID distort what the poster said & deny what you said. Talk about straw men! Let's review...

The OP, in reference to Biden, used the phrase:
" 'ONLY he can beat Trump!' nonsense."

You distorted what the poster said by ignoring the word "only," saying "I can't take a thread seriously that dismisses beating trump as 'nonsense' "

Of course, the poster did NOT dimiss beating trump as nonsense. That's a distortion... what's nonsense according to the poster is to say Biden is the ONLY candidate who can beat trump, which statement, BTW, i WHOLEHEARTEDLY agree with!! l

How do you not see the difference? Surely, you do...
You don't need to distort what the poster said, then deny doing that, and then accuse me of setting up "straw men" and call me arrogant for pointing out your error.

Just answer the poster's legitimate question... or don't answer, that's okay too, and, indeed, would be perfectly understandable.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[themaguffin]

135. I was referring to the dismissive nature of beating trump.

Jesus. Wow.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. You might pooh pooh

You might pooh pooh the promise of a return to normalcy but I'm not convinced such a promise is without resonance.

[Kahuna7]

18. It resonates with me. I want that for our children. They shouldn't

have trump as an example of what an American president should be.

[redstatebluegirl]

10. It is going to take a lot of federal government experience to fix what Trump has destroyed.

If Biden/Harris is the ticket just think, he would put Cory Booker in HUD, Warren in Budget take your pick for AG of the many other candidates that would be fabulous.

I also think the most important thing is beating Trump, if you don't I totally disagree with your thinking. We cannot afford litmus tests and purity tests this time around.

[MineralMan]

11. Keep watching and I'll bet you'll see.

Or, you could do some more research on who Joe Biden is and what he thinks. Either way, you'll discover that over the next few months.

Right now, people are reacting to his joining the crowd of primary candidates. Some are pleased. Some are not. He's moved up in the informal DU member poll in this forum to the first position today. He's now tied with Kamala Harris, but has a few more people who have chosen him as their avatar.

Will he stay there, gain more supporters, or will position shift again? I don't know.

[TCJ70]

87. Maybe. I just want to see where he lands policy-wise.

Thank you for your reply!

[louis c]

17. No one says that "only Biden can beat Trump"...

...what we say is that Biden gets the most Electoral Votes against Trump. Every poll in every state proves that. Every poll in every state that has been polled has Biden beating Trump by more votes than any other Democratic challenger, or losing by less votes than every other Democratic challenger.

But, if you think beating Trump is just nonsense, you certainly have a right to your opinion.

But, to answer your question:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

25. Of course some people say that. I see it every single day... it's all over DU!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[TCJ70]

31. Right here:

https://www.democraticunderground.org/128754943

Biden is the only candidate whom we can count on to stop Trump.

Beating trump is not nonsense...that as an argument for a candidate is, though. Two different things.

[Skya Rhen]

45. Polls show a slight chance for everyone else and a greater chance for Joe to beat Trump

so Joe is the one we can count on - better probability (Stats 101)

[louis c]

51. Bingo

[marylandblue]

127. The dangers of extrapolation - Statistics 102.

Extrapolating from polling data this far out is dangerous. It can lead you to think Biden is a stronger candidate than he really is, and others are weaker. His current lead over Trump is due, at least in part, to better name recognition. As he takes on attacks from other candidates and the others become better known, his position could easily change.

Also, primary voters can get so caught up in the electability argument and early polls that they end up nominating a weak candidate who can't make it through the general election.

[louis c]

50. Do you have a reading conprehensive problem...

...the poster says that Biden will carry Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan so "he is the only one we can depend on to win". That does not mean nobody else can win, it just means Biden is in the best position to carry the 3 states needed to win.

IE: "You can depend on me to pick up the kids"...but, my brother, who is less dependable, may still be asked and the kids may still get picked up on time. My Sister just knows that I will always do as she asks, my Brother, only sometimes. I'm the only one she can depend on, but my Brother comes through, occasionally. Get it?

Sanders, or Warren, or Harris might win Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. But Biden has a far better chance then they do.

[TCJ70]

55. No...but how about we get closer to home...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128752971#post45

I'm afraid only Biden can beat Trump for 3 reasons...

...Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

Your words.

[louis c]

80. Again, "I'm afraid only" is a caveat and makes the statement less than absolute..

...again, reading comprehension.

The word afraid implies that there is another alternative, but it is riskier than the first.

Kinda like the poll I posted. Biden wins every state by a margin and the national vote by a margin greater than every other contender.

I'm afraid only Biden can win those 3 states, because that's what the polls show.

That also leaves plenty of other options to victory using other states. For instance, if another candidate can demonstrate greater strength than Biden in Florida, two of those 3 states become unnecessary for victory, "but I'm afraid we don't have a candidate that can demonstrate that better than Biden". Perhaps a candidate can prove that he or she can carry Arizona and Texas, and we don't need the mid-west, "I'm afraid we don't have that evidence to prove that theory". Same with North Carolina and Georgia.

The surest pathway to victory is a candidate that can secure all of the 2016 Hillary states and bring in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. Show me that, and now you have a point.

[Miles Archer]

59. That's pretty unfair.

You call out ONE DUer for their comments and call it nonsense.

That's basically flaming.

Let them have their opinion. If you disagree with it, fine.

[LongtimeAZDem]

66. +1

[Drunken Irishman]

19. Well...

1) I think Joe has the experience to navigate a foreign policy that has largely been decimated by a very poor president. I believe he has the respect, and experience, needed to fix the damaged relationships we've seen with our allies and boost America's standing on the international stage.

2) I think Biden is a good man who is genuine. The sincerity of a politician is generally one of the most important factors in my mind when it comes to selecting a candidate. I thought the same with Obama. I think there's an endearing quality to Biden's personality and it gives me a window into who he is as a human being, which means I can generally trust that he's ultimately working for the betterment of this country.

3) I believe Joe, more than any candidate in the race, due to his experience as a senator and Vice President, understands the pragmatic approach it'll take to be successful, especially if, as it likely will prove to be the case, the next president enters the White House with no majority in the United States Senate (or a slim majority). Pragmatism doesn't sell on places like DU but it's the foundation to good policy - every president who's succeeded in advancing their cause were pragmatic politicians. They knew how to play the game.

4) That experience is important. Jimmy Carter largely failed on the domestic front because he could not work with the United States Congress, despite having mega-majorities in both the House and Senate when he became president. He butted heads with Ted Kennedy and it all but ended any realistic chance we had at healthcare reform ... all the way back in the 70s. Carter was a novice when it came to federal politics, having been a governor of, what was perceived at the time, to be a small, but growing, southern state. Carter struggled passing a domestic agenda and it was largely due to his inability to work with congress. Fifteen years later, Bill Clinton experienced the same hurdles - failing to advance his original stimulus (and compromising on a much smaller one) and watching his healthcare reform bill go up in smoke despite holding both chambers of congress. Governors can grow into the role, as Clinton did, but the last five presidents we've elected without some DC experience, Trump, Bush, Clinton, Reagan and Carter, struggled at times and, to be honest, I think we'll be working under a very short window here with whomever wins in 2020 and they've got to know how to hit the ground running. The most productive first 100 days came from Obama - not coincidentally the first actual senator elected to the presidency since LBJ.

5) I think Joe's sincerity is what draws people to him. I think, and I don't care if you think this is nonsense, he can beat Trump - but he'll do it in areas where he plays well: Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Florida. To be honest, I don't think any of the current candidates have quite the built-in advantage as Biden does and the Democrats need to win those states to win in 2020. That's a huge difference between Biden and Hillary - Hillary had the chops, and experience, and name recognition, but she never played well in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. There was always concerns about her campaign in those states. I think Biden wins all three and again puts Ohio and Florida back into play.

6) Obama-BIDEN. That's huge for me because Obama trusted that Biden was ready to go on day one. He picked Biden for a reason and I trust Obama's judgment.

[TCJ70]

73. Thank you for taking time to type this out. n/t

[CrispyQ]

95. +1

A well thought out response.


Joe could also split the repubs & that would be a good thing.

[FM123]

106. Yes, he could very well split the repugs.

Ana Navarro recently wrote on CNN:
I am begging and pleading with Democrats not to screw this up. Please nominate someone who can win, someone that can unite the Democratic base, energize the Obama coalition and not alienate right-leaning independents and Trump-rejecting Republicans (like me). I know people like me are just a little teeny piece of the formula. But for what it's worth, I like Joe Biden.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/24/opinions/joe-biden-is-normal----and-that-sounds-really-good-to-me-navarro/index.html

[dubyadiprecession]

121. Speaking of beating trump....

Can the debates between presidential nominees include at least one fist fight?
I’d ❤️ to see trump get stomped like a grape.

[dem4decades]

107. I would hope Biden could gather the same people or type of people

That made Obama's White House House professional and scandal free.

If Michelle isn't going to run I'll take Biden.

[ms liberty]

110. This should be an OP. Really good. n/t

[DownriverDem]

20. Biden represents normalcy

Nothing in Biden's past compares with trump. Foreign leaders are begging him to run. He can beat trump. He won't take trump's crap. trump does not want to run against Biden. trump needs Pennsylvania. Biden can win Pennsylvania. He was born and raised in Pennsylvania. Biden has a close relationship with blue collar workers. They will support him because they know how much trump has screwed him. I would love to see Biden run with a strong progressive Dem woman (Harris?). She would then be positioned to become the first woman President! (remember we have not had a woman VP yet either)

[CentralMass]

21. As with any candidate one key thing is can he or she beat tRump.

While I havd my own top preference, I think a case can be made that Biden has a good chance of meeting that metric.

[Codeine]

26. Experience. Expertise.

Maturity. Intellect. Statesmanship.

I don’t believe he’s the only candidate in possession of these traits (obviously) but it’s not exactly a stretch to comprehend why the man who served honorably alongside Barack Obama would gather support immediately upon announcement.

Pretending not to understand this is just a bit transparently disingenuous, no?

[LongtimeAZDem]

33. +1

[TCJ70]

70. I guess I'm just looking for concrete things. Those traits you mention are nebulous concepts...

...I just want to know what's behind them. I have great respect for Obama and think he did great things for this country, but I don't extend that same respect automatically to Biden.

[aidbo]

28. nostalgia. NT

[awesomerwb1]

39. THe same could be said of your favorite candidate right there.

[aidbo]

42. Oh? When was Bernie VP of a popular Democratic president? NT

[awesomerwb1]

46. Don't have to have been vice president to feel nostalgia about 2016 bro

[Freethinker65]

29. Familiarity, stability, competence, normalcy.

Biden is way down on my list, but if he picks a dynamic veep and agrees to one term once some stability and normalcy is restored, I can understand the appeal.

[33taw]

30. I think he would stand up to Trump better than anyone.

He called Ryan out in the debates like a “straight shooter”. Others might as well, but I think he is a fighter and we need that now. I like Pete B as well.

[underthematrix]

32. He's the FACE of the RULE of LAW

[shanny]

47. that's a two-edged sword

[TCJ70]

49. What the fuck does this even mean? n/t

[awesomerwb1]

36. You sound mad bro.

[TCJ70]

52. Sorry it came off that way, bro. n/t

[CrispyQ]

38. What I posted in another thread:

We have many, many fences to mend.

Biden has history & established relationships with the allies Trump has offended. Even with his flaws, Biden is a known factor to many. There might be an advantage to that.

I can't imagine in the privacy of a voting booth that Lindsey Graham would vote for Trump over Biden. That may be the case with many old-time republicans who look at the party & go WTF?

===============
I'm voting for the democratic candidate. Period.

BTW, HRC did win the popular vote by 3 million, even with massive voter disenfranchisement in some states, Russian tampering, & a politically motivated announcement by the FBI just days before the election.

[shanny]

40. Nostalgia...

for Obama. But Joe is not Obama.

[NYMinute]

105. ...

[Mike Nelson]

41. I think that's...

… close to his main draw. I don't think he's the "only" candidate that can beat Crooked Donald. His main appeal, for me, it that people are saying he has a chance to bring a few states back... well, not back, exactly, but maybe he can do well enough so it's difficult to hack them. I may like more things - will see during the debates!

[LongtimeAZDem]

53. Why do people with an obvious preference claim to be "undecided"? Some things are just mysteries.

[beachbum bob]

56. You need to understand politics to know that owning the Whitehouse is what it is all about

the power of president is huge. Policies mean nothing if you can not be elected

[TCJ70]

57. I didn't realize asking for arguments for a candidate would result in such negativity...

...There have been some good replies to this thread but some of them. Man...out there.

[LongtimeAZDem]

68. Maybe it's because most Democrats already know Biden's value?

[MrsCoffee]

114. Oh, the I was just asking argument?

And your OP asked so nicely?



Lol.

[TCJ70]

120. I've thanked several posters for their responses already...

...it’s a genuine question I’m asking.

[better]

119. I suspect it's not asking for arguments that resulted in such negativity.

Seems much more likely that the way you phrased your OP conveyed contempt for arguments such as "he can win" as "a garbage argument" gave rise to it. Ultimately, some of your more thoughtful and measured responses to objective posts do tend to indicate that you are at least trying to keep an open mind, but your initial phrasing unnecessarily (and quite possibly unintentionally) invited negativity.

One cardinal rule of communication that I always try to follow (and sometimes succeed) is to avoid putting my audience on the defensive, because the productivity of communication invariably suffers the moment one party becomes defensive. Whether I should have to "coddle" anyone, be "PC" or whatever other derogatory connotation one might apply to this concept, the fact is that my objectives are hindered by failing to avoid putting my recipients on the defensive, so avoiding it is worthwhile.

Had you phrased your OP, for example, more along the lines of "I get the significance of picking a candidate who can beat Trump, but that's not enough for me, and I think several other contenders could as well. What other aspects draw you to Biden?" would have conveyed the same concern and elicited the same input, but avoided many negative reactions.

We're all a bit chafed by events of the last two years, so even our allies are subject to reacting a bit more harshly than is really called for, as we are after all only human.

[malchickiwick]

63. Two terms as VP to the greatest POTUS of my lifetime is a big draw for me. Not you??

The fact that BHO showed such tremendous faith in him is a HUGE draw for me. Why not you?

[TCJ70]

69. Not really...

...Biden seemed largely invisible to me as VP. That could definitely just be my experience. I'm also not one to make a conclusion based on endorsements.

[malchickiwick]

76. That WAS definitely just your experience. Maybe, since you were asleep for eight years, ...

... you could do a bit of homework yourself rather than asking others for the answers to the upcoming exam.

[TCJ70]

78. Thanks for the insults?

I really thought a DISCUSSION BOARD would be more open to information sharing.

[malchickiwick]

133. You took something in that as an insult?? How so?? WTTW -- if you plan more such OPs ...

... you need to seriously thicken your skin.

[nini]

64. Statesmanship

Which the world needs desperately from this country.

[Fresh_Start]

65. Multiple things

1) belief he can beat Trump is high on the list
2) his humanity, personal warmth, openness
3) his honesty
4) he's evolved over the last 30 years
5) he's willing to listen, to elicit and accept advice
6) his personal story

[quickesst]

67. It is amusing....

.... When someone invokes Hillary Clinton's loss in 2016 as if it were a fair and square election. They seem to conveniently omit the massive Russian campaign in coordination with trumps organization against her, the ill-fated report from James Comey and the fact that she won the popular vote by 3 million people. Why didn't you just write I don't like Joe Biden. Give me a reason to vote for him, even though it won't do any good. It would have at least been more accurate.

[MrsCoffee]

109. +1

[nini]

129. I've seen the same thing

and thought the same.

Makes me nuts

[quickesst]

134. It's dishonest

Using whatever narrative to suit one's purpose. Omission of facts easily turn a statement into an untruth.

[marylandblue]

137. 2020 will not be fair and square either.

I want to know our candidate is ready to win a campaign assuming it won't be fair fight. Nothing about Biden or any of his supporters comments suggests he is really ready for that.

[quickesst]

138. You have responded ...

.... to a part of my post that is secondary to the main point which is the lopsided, and unfair assessment of Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.
My response to your reply concerning the secondary section of my post would simply be this.

Nothing about Buttigieg or any of his supporters comments suggests he is really ready to win a campaign assuming it won't be a fair fight.

My assessment concerning your candidate has as much validity as yours does to mine. See how that works?

[marylandblue]

139. No. Because first of all, the so-called lopsided and unfair assessment of Hillary is irrelevant

She lost. She lost for a lot of reasons. There's rarely just one reason for anything. Some reasons are fair. Some are unfair. Some are under the candidate's control. Some are not. We need to deal with that. Understand the prior loss as best we can, and make adjustments.

Buttigieg, has, IMO, developed a strategy that takes into account what went wrong in 2016 and some of the factors that he can control. He bases his strategy in political science, psychology and history. I can go into the details if you want to, but it would be a pretty long post, and you might find it boring. But maybe it's just enough to point out that his strategy is working so far, as he went from nothing to contender in 30 days. It wasn't an accident.

Biden has, as far as I can tell, done none of this. He already fell into the Hillary trap twice, and he's still got a year to go before Trump and the Russian bots start using those things against him. That's assuming other Democrats don't shoot him down first. Which they will do because they always shoot at the front runner. They already have. He looks like he's basing his campaign on "Trump sucks," and "I'm an experienced nice guy from Scranton." Or something like that. I really can't tell if it's anything more than that. It doesn't seem like enough. It's never been enough before. Of course, Trump is different from every other incumbent ever, but that doesn't make him easy to beat. It makes it much harder. We underestimated him in 2016. In many ways, we are still underestimating him. Well I'm not making that mistake again.

Of course, I could be wrong. I feel I need that disclaimer because a lot of the Biden supporters act like they have a crystal ball. Not saying you are acting that way, but some are. They don't have a crystal ball, and I sure don't

I was wrong in 2016. Weren't most of us? But at least I know why I was wrong. I think I learned from my mistakes. I'm a lot more careful this time. I'm paying attention to things I ignored before. My biggest surprise so far is that there is a candidate who came to the same conclusions I did about how to win 2020.

But you don't have to believe me. If I'm right, Buttigieg will continue moving up in the polls. If I'm wrong, he'll sink to zero, and I'll switch to someone else. Maybe Biden, if I'm wrong about him too.

[quickesst]

140. Irrelevant? Haha

First off, it's my post. I get to decide the relevancy. I don't like the treatment she receives from some of our members and I will defend her at every turn. Mentioning her campaign and conveniently leaving out the circumstances behind her loss, and trying to pass her off as an unqualified candidate is a disservice.

"But it would be a pretty long post"
I barely made it through this one. 😯

I'm not going to badmouth any candidate, wait, maybe one, okay 2 then, all right all right, there might be three. All I know is that in the end we will have a candidate that everyone needs to get behind. If it's mayor Pete, I'm there. If it's Joe Biden, I'm there. If it's ???, I'm reluctantly there, but I'm there nonetheless. I know you will be there too.

[marylandblue]

141. It's my answer, so I get to decide the relevancy of your post.

You can write whatever you want and I can declare it irrelevant. You can do the same to me.

I didn't say she was an unqualified candidate. Just that she made mistakes. The entire Democratic Party made mistakes. I learn from mistakes. What do you do with them?

Sorry, my post was longer than I planned.

I don't badmouth any candidates at all. I'll take whoever wins. I do comment on strategy and what I think will happen. I've got nothing against Biden, I just don't think he's the best choice. I'm a bit miffed at some posters who want to declare the race over 10 months before the first primary. I think I'll just ignore it now, like I mostly do for the zealous followers of some other candidates.

Cheers.

[quickesst]

142. I think everyone.........

.... who has made a decision on who to support is passionate about their choice to an extent. I am far from positive that Joe will be the nominee, but I do believe that given the experience he brings to the plate, he has an excellent chance of achieving that. That is just my personal opinion. I think the picture will be much clearer after the first debate. Some may fall flat, and others may rise. I'm looking forward to it as I'm sure you are. I agree with you that you should just ignore the queen and king crowner's. Even if what they say actually happens, it's still pretty much of a crapshoot right now. On the relevancy issue, I'll leave you with this.

So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy
There's only you and me and we just disagree
Dave Mason

One of my all-time favorite songs.

[BlueStater]

71. Not really, no.

His record is actually pretty damn bad when you compare it to the other candidates.

Personally, I'm interested in selecting the best person and I definitely don't believe that person is Biden. I'm not going to let an asshole like Trump impact who I support in the primary. I'm thinking of the future beyond his disastrous time in the spotlight, not just beating him.

[still_one]

77. an inside straight?

[Turbineguy]

79. Experience

[Loki Liesmith]

81. Generally moderate

I’m not a fan of hard left solutions

[TCJ70]

84. What moderate solutions does he have...

...to the countries problems?

[Auggie]

104. BINGO! However ...

I happen to like hard-left solutions, but they're fodder from which the GOP can create horror stories (Death Panels), and that scares the crap out of a lot of voters in Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, etc.

[happybird]

113. That's exactly how I feel.

Plus, Biden can pull in moderates, never-trumpers, and those who will simply stay home instead of voting for someone they view as "too far left."

The right is going to be throwing around the word "socialism" like confetti and, sadly, too many Americans base their vote on attack ads and Facebook posts.

[Auggie]

132. We're on the same page

[Jose Garcia]

82. Experience

[Honeycombe8]

88. It's all about winning. If yu don't win, it doesn't matter what yur policies are. He's a Democrat.

All the Democrats have similar positions on the issues, and agree with similar policies. All in accordance with the Democratic Party Platform.

There ARE differences without distinction. They all think help is needed for people to get a college education; each candidate has a different vision on how to make that happen, though. Candidates change their minds about plans,anyway, or find they have to change their plans to get something passed. So instead of fixating on a particular plan by a particular candidate, it's best IMO to pick the one who is most likely able to WIN, while still being a Democrat with Democratic Party views.

[delisen]

89. Yes last candidate beaten by Putin; he is poised to select next candidate

[nini]

96. So are you saying Putin wants Biden

???

[delisen]

100. I said Putin is poised to select next president.

Last edited Thu Apr 25, 2019, 02:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Actually I said next candidate-whether it is Trump or someone else remains to be seen. I do not perceive Putin to be sentimental and if Putin sees Trump as a liability he will select someone else to carry out Putin's foreign policy.

There is evidence in Mueller report and in press that Putin also wanted to prevent H Clinton from becoming president by boosting primary rival and by boosting a third party Clinton rival.

So far no one is disputing reports that Putin is continuing his interference in our election process, and most candidates are ignoring the power of Putin and framing the election as though Putin as not involved in 2016 and not involved now.

We paid a steep and lasting price for our ignorance of the facts in 201 and ill pay again until the facts are confronted and publicized.

[NYMinute]

99. Biden has empathy and compassion

He is erudite yet a simple person's person.

He is really authentic as opposed to being finger-wagging authentic.

People always trust him to do the right thing for them, their families and their pocketbooks.

He and his family's sacrifice is well known.

One never has to ask Biden about his health plan or environment plan or tax plan. People know he will choose the right one with full trust.

Biden will be epitome of unity, decency, competence and civility.


BTW -- if you have to ask "what is Biden's draw?" one may question if you're new to the Democratic party.

[Cicada]

101. Differences among democrats would be trivial

Policies require broad support. There are real world constraints on what a President can do. For the most part the President will support the consensus among democrats. I really think any Democratic President will end up 98% the same as any other.

[Pisces]

108. If you don't know Biden by now you never will. I think you

Should do your own research, and limit your shut stirring

[woodsprite]

111. Here's a starter list. I'm sure others could add more.

Biden

1) has great foreign policy chops, good relationships with and is respected by our allies (this is my biggest reason)
2) knows DC politics like the back of his hand (2nd biggest reason)
3) can mend the many fences that trump has broken (here and abroad)
4) is not afraid to take on the orange asshat and knows that has to happen to begin to heal the US
5) cares about our country and all of it's people; he speaks to the people
6) has been vetted out the whazoo for years and years
7) has appeal on both sides of the aisle (as long as he doesn't let them railroad him)
8) could be "up and running" on day 1 like no other candidate could be
9) would be excellent at mentoring a younger VP on foreign policy so they would be ready to take the helm in 2024

10) He has everything it takes to let the healing of the nation begin.

[emmaverybo]

131. Bravo

Concisely stated and significant points. Biden’s draw in a nutshell.

[TruckFump]

112. He is trustworthy.

That kinda says it all to me.

[gateley]

115. Although I'm very impressed by the others running,

I think at this time we need Joe's familiarity and good relationships with our allies and knowledge of foreign affairs. I think we've alienated so many and he's got the experience, expertise and RESPECT of others around the globe.

[Locrian]

116. dunno

I really don't see much policy / substance in terms of direction vs trump=bad

[Sanity Claws]

118. He's normal and a known quantity

He isn't a narcissist.

[Laelth]

144. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[Thekaspervote]

122. Joe is the voice in the wilderness. Yes, that's mushy but true.

[liberal N proud]

124. Experience and experience

Additionally, he worked for Obama and they are still friends. I would anticipate help from Obama.

[Laelth]

143. +1 n/t

-Laelth

[Loge23]

125. One thing to keep in mind with Joe:

Sorry if I offend any fellow seniors out there, but Joe Biden will be a ripe 78 years old at the swear-in.
That's 82 at the end of his first term if anyone's counting.
Remember how amazed we were at how much Obama aged during his term?

Yes, we all know some amazing 80 year old's out there, but isn't it time for new young blood? The one's that I know are amazing in short doses - not sure they can handle the 24/7 x 4 of a full term Presidency.
I agree that Joe Biden has the chops, knows the ropes, and can be an effective executive - certainly a huge upgrade from the present situation. But so can some of our younger candidates. We have effective legislators among the candidates, we have idealists, and we have a reasonable cross-section of party ideology with our choices. I know that our country is severely damaged right now, but isn't there a reasonable candidate younger than 75 (or 65?!) out there?

I'll strongly support any Democratic candidate that survives the primaries and garners the nomination, including Joe of course, but I'm thinking it's actually somewhat cruel to encourage Joe at this point. Just an opinion.

[True Dough]

136. I think it's a fair point

When Trump became president at 70, making him the oldest POTUS in the country's history, there was lots of talk about his age. Since then there's been plenty of speculation about dementia setting in.

An 80-year-old president is going to face lots of skepticism about his faculties and physical health/stamina.

[Mme. Defarge]

126. He's the Anti-Trump?

[Frustratedlady]

128. Decency.

Compassion, patriotism, experience, intelligence and humor. Joe is a good and decent human being. That is a strong foundation as a future POTUS. For all his years in politics, little can be found to degrade him and you'd have to dig deep to find that.