Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumFelonies ain't felonies
Felonies are not homogeneous. One class of felonies are capital offences, a distinction that the law and society has always made crystal clear, for obvious reasons. That those lawfully and properly convicted have lost their right to vote is something the founding fathers would have accepted without question. If, as a matter of law, someone has lost their right to life itself, they have certainly have lost their right to vote.
Senator Sanders is wrong. There is no slippery slope in making a special case of capital offenders, it is the clearest line in criminal justice.
EDIT: I think advocating votes for inmates is some of the stupidest politics ever, but accept some would on stand on principle. Fine, but its not a legal principle. If, as I said, as a matter of law, someone has lost their right to life itself, they have certainly have lost their right to vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,170 posts)should be a much higher priority than letting them vote while still in jail.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
elleng
(131,028 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
unblock
(52,279 posts)and in terms of politics, it's most likely a losing issue either way; but yes, people are much more likely to support restoring voting rights to people who have fully served their time rather than those who are still in prison, even though it remains an abomination for a government to take away anyone's right to vote.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
comradebillyboy
(10,170 posts)I say reintegrating into society. Things like job training and employment programs so they don't have to go back to crime to survive.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
unblock
(52,279 posts)in many ways, our prison system is crime college. whatever you were went you went in, while there you are basically taught to be violent (subject to certain rules), you are taught a trade, you make contacts, and then after release you find that a law-abiding life has been made an unusually difficult one for you.
people go on and on about how "rotten" people are for committing crimes even after serving time, but they forget, or don't realize, that that's what we trained them to do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
cwydro
(51,308 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,377 posts)What a novel argument.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
crazytown
(7,277 posts)Sanders excuse for Boston Bomber votes was the slippery slope. Capital offences are the tightest legal distinction there is.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,377 posts)I agree, though -- Sanders is terrible at explaining himself, especially when he feels like there's a "gotcha" hiding somewhere that he can't find, and the issue is a shitty one for campaign politics. I do support voting rights for people who are incarcerated, though.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
unblock
(52,279 posts)particularly around voting rights, such as, not guaranteeing the right of women to vote, and not guaranteeing the right of slaves to vote (as just one of many problems with allowing slavery to exist in the first place)....
yes, of course the founders would have been fine with disenfranchisement, they were fine with denying the vote to a majority of the people already anyway. the founders are usually a good place to look for statesman-like wisdom, but on this topic, they're not a good source of compelling arguments.
fact is, there really are no good reasons to deny the vote to people on the basis of being incarcerated. what good could it possibly do? it's not going to deter anyone ever. if the threat of imprisonment isn't enough to deter a criminal, the further threat of losing the right to vote certainly isn't going to deter them.
but there are many, many horrible reasons for it, key among them, giving everyone in the legislative, judicial, and law enforcement process an incentive to discriminate in laws and enforcement.
and how is the nature of the crime relevant to voting? whether or not the penalty is 11 months vs. 13 months? or whether the penalty is life in prison vs. death? how is that relevant to voting?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)Its just stupid as a stand alone topic and will do nothing but hurt us. Im no fool. It is a part of a much larger debate that requires comprehensive reform. Even at that point, its something that would to be put forward as an amendment to comprehensive reform. BS is clearly struggling.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DoctorJoJo
(1,134 posts)I surely agree that ALL former felons who have fully paid their debt to society should have their voting rights restored, but NOT the incarcerated. That is a step too far and will not be tolerated by the voting public.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
bluedigger
(17,087 posts)I expect Warren will get right on that in her State of record.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
aidbo
(2,328 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Codeine
(25,586 posts)regardless of their crime, even the Dylan Roofs and Tsarnaevs (too lazy to look up the spelling) of this world.
That said, what a stupid, losing argument to make. When your position is almost universally derided at a progressive place like DU then its probably safe to say its a view that probably doesnt need to be discussed in public.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden