If Biden voted for the Iraq war does that disqualify him?

[leftofcool]

Just checking to see if what is good for the goose is also good for the gander.

[JackInGreen]

1. There are many things that disqualify Joe, imo

Between his vote for the Iraq war, and his first fund raising event being with Comcast after he failed to cosponsor net neutrality legislation, he'll have my vote if he manages the primary, but he's not getting me in the primary in any way.

[fatrick]

2. No

Absolutely no disqualifies for any Democratic candidates. Let’s stop snookering our own side before the game has even started.

[PJMcK]

26. This isn't a game (n/t)

[fatrick]

67. You understand what a metaphor is don't you?

I’m not literally saying we’re playing pool.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

107. Disqualify, no...1 of many factors placin Joe at the bottom of my list of Democratic candidates, yes

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[UniteFightBack]

3. It doesn't disqualify anyone and I don't get that whole argument anyway when we were all being

led to believe we were in imminent danger. No real world Democrat is thinking...gee should I not vote for this one or that one because they voted for a war x amount of years ago.

Real world Democrats are gonna knock this race on it's ass...and I know because I'm one of them.

[leftofcool]

11. LOL

[oldsoftie]

15. Exactly. People seem to forget Cheney's lies that were put out as fact to Congress.

Ever wonder why Bush never appears anywhere with Cheney? because he knows HE was used too.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

108. Yeah, but not everyone fell for those lies... they're the ones whose judgment we should trust!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[mobeau69]

54. Wow, we've lost some great Dems since then.

[George II]

55. I suggest the people, all of us, read the AUMF to see what it actually says.....

It gave bush authorization to go to war if certain conditions were not met by Iraq as detailed in several UN resolutions. In fact, Iraq did meet those conditions but the bush administration lied to both the American people and the UN.

[marylandblue]

80. I did read it then and still thought it was wrong and obvious

Wrong in that Congress should not provide conditional authorizations at all, and it was obvious that Bush planned to say the conditions were not met.

But I'm not going to blame Biten for it 15 years later. I'd rather know what he plans to do with today's problems.

[Magoo48]

44. "Real World Democrats"

Define please.

[shanny]

105. what a crock

I knew it was bullshit, why didn't they?

[The Mouth]

110. THANK YOU!!!

I'll vote 'D' regardless

But EVERYONE who supported (did not protest against) that war deserves to be in the trial docket for war crimes at the Hague. D or R, and every journalist that supported it, all war criminals not much better than the ones hung at Nuremberg.

Every 'Yes' vote and newspaper article author should spend the eternity in hell with the guilt of hundreds of thousands of lives laid on them. (not that I really believe in hell).

[LuvLoogie]

4. Did Biden vote for the Iraq war? Can you show me the vote.

I never knew there was a vote for the Iraq war. When was that held?

[delisen]

8. Just engine search Biden's vote on Iraq War. You will find it fast. nt

[watoos]

10. Congress gave Bush the authorization to use force,

everyone knew he would use it to invade Iraq.

If we are going to bash Democrats here on DU let me remind people that there was only 1 Democratic member of the House who voted against Bush's AUMF bill and that was Barbara Lee. Every other Democratic member of the House was wrong. Bash away.

[oldsoftie]

12. The Iraq Resolution;Pub.L. 107-243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114

[PJMcK]

28. Study a little history

Biden voted to authorize force in Kuwait. It was all based on lies that were transparent.

What kind of judgment did Biden exhibit?

[ehrnst]

120. What about someone who voted for military force in Iraq. Twice. In 1998.

What kind of judgement do you think those votes exhibit?

[watoos]

5. I warned people when it was fun and games

to bash Bernie and Tulsi. None of our candidates are perfect so I am leaving it up to Republicans to do the bashing.

[WeekiWater]

6. How would it disqualify him?

Just asking shows a lack of knowledge with respect to recent history and what seems to be purposefully ignoring polls.

Does this disqualify Biden? Clearly it doesn’t.

Does supporting regime change in Iraq disqualify BS? Clearly it does not.

Strange question.

[leftofcool]

9. It Disqualified Hillary

[WeekiWater]

13. What?

First I’ve heard of that. I thought she won the primary without even having to vet her opponent.

The things you learn on DU.

[Cha]

17. Say What?!! that's news to me, too!

[leftofcool]

24. Hey Cha! Remember all those people who wouldn't vote for Hillary because of her vote on Iraq?

At least, that was the excuse at the time.

[Cha]

45. Oh you mean like..

"disqualified"?

66 million votes said "no".

leftofcool

[leftofcool]

49. I know.

And I loved it. I am on board with Joe if he wins the primary but I want to stick with Pete cause I like what he says.

[Cha]

52. I'm fine and rooting for

everybody in the primary(top tiers).. except a couple who I definitely do not want.

[leftofcool]

59. I hear ya

[leftofcool]

19. She did

And you are right, Bernie was never vetted. But here on DU, hundreds said they could never vote for Hillary because of her vote on the Iraq war. Just checking to see if those same people felt the same way about Biden. I learned exactly what I needed to know.

[WeekiWater]

20. I'm glad it has been a brief but good learning exercise. NT

[Autumn]

30. I remember posts about Hillary's IWR vote saying she had fangs dripping with blood in 08

and how they would never support her. They came around in 2016.

[treestar]

97. In 2-16 DP forum

it was Hillary vs. Bernie only, and Bernie didn't vote for it and Hillary did, and thus she was a "warmonger." So OP is saying Biden is same as Hillary in that regard and it is about DU DP rather than the real world.

[watoos]

16. In your mind?

Barack Obama used her vote against her while campaigning back in 2008, but why are we regurgitating this? What is the purpose? Many Democrats voted for the AUMF bill.

[BeyondGeography]

27. People who object to this statement need to ask themselves a couple of questions

If Hillary opposed IWR would Barack Obama have even run in 2008? (I think not.)

If Hillary opposed IWR would she have been unbeatable anyway? (I think so.)

This was a defining issue back then. Not anymore, IMO. But a lot of us, myself included, used it as a litmus test. Obama was a great candidate but that clip of him opposing the “dumb war” was a big reason why he won.

[Demsrule86]

32. IWR had nothing to do with 08.

[BeyondGeography]

39. Lol

Good one!

[shanny]

111. WTF?

That's a knee-slapper.

[Demsrule86]

34. It didnt.

[George II]

56. No it didn't. She won the nomination and it can be argued that she won the general election, too.

[NurseJackie]

73. But not John Edwards... I guess it all depends on who's doing the disqualifyin'.

[BlueStater]

75. He didn't win the nomination, did he?

Also, who even talks about John Edwards anymore except as a punchline?

[NurseJackie]

77. Whoosh!

[BlueStater]

79. Yep, your non-sequitur went over my head.

Who was talking about Edwards in this thread?

[NurseJackie]

82. All I'm saying is that sometimes it's disqualifying and other times it's not...

All I'm saying is that sometimes it's disqualifying and other times it's not, depending on who's doing the disqualifying and what their agenda is. The EXACT same people who supported John Edwards had NO problem with his IWR vote, yet they were convinced that Trump would be a "better choice" than Hillary because of her IWR vote. Clearly, it's not that they actually CARE about how someone voted, it's just something that's convenient to hurl at their opponent... even when their hypocrisy is over-the-top obvious, they simply don't care.

Who was talking about Edwards in this thread?

I'm talking about hypocrisy.

[DownriverDem]

7. No it doesn't

Nothing in Biden's past compares with trump. Foreign leaders are begging him to run. He can beat trump. He won't take trump's crap. trump does not want to run against Biden. trump needs Pennsylvania. Biden can win Pennsylvania. He was born and raised in Pennsylvania. Biden has a close relationship with blue collar workers. They will support him because they know how much trump has screwed him. I would love to see Biden run with a strong progressive Dem woman (Harris?). She would then be positioned to become the first woman President! (remember we have not had a woman VP yet either)

[oldsoftie]

21. Biden's biggest threat is within his own party. "Its coming from inside the house".

He's polling very low with the most progressive wing of the party. I'm afraid those are the same ones who will take their ball and go home if THEIR anointed one, whoever that may be, doesnt win.

[Demsrule86]

31. And once again they will elect the Republican Trump.

[oldsoftie]

37. Right again.

[crazytown]

65. Your 1000% certainly that Anyone other than Biden

will lose, and therefore, by implication, those who support other candidate are either fools, or wish to see Trump win, does you no credit IMO. Biden may be the safe choice but the future remains to be written.

[Demsrule86]

72. I am 100 % certain that Biden can take three states that deny Trump an electoral

college victory...MI,WI and PA. No one else can do that. I don't see any other way to stop Trump. Look at the electoral college map.

[crazytown]

78. And if there is a Stockmarket crash ala 2008

with the economy losing a million jobs a month come November 2020? (I pray there is not)

[Demsrule86]

81. We can't count on any such issue.

This is our path to victory.

[crazytown]

84. Ofcourse not

What I alluding to isthe ferocious in 2007/08 were Obama and Clinton supporters were 100%!certain the other side would lose.

[Demsrule86]

96. In the end we elected a Democrat. The worst year was 16 ...I am angry even now

about losing the general. I will despise Stein and her supporters until the day I die.

[crazytown]

99. I get it now.

Thanks for the insight about where you are coming from.

[Demsrule86]

100. I want to win. Trump is dangerous.

[abqtommy]

70. This is my standard gentle reply to remind you that tRump was NOT elected!

Now go and sin no more!

[Demsrule86]

74. He was elected by the electoral college and will do it again if Biden is not

the nominee.

[Autumn]

36. There wasn't an anointed anyone when Biden ran in 88 and 2008. Where did his losses back then

come from?

[oldsoftie]

41. In '08, the same thing happened to Hillary; Obama. In '88, he got lucky.

Nobody was going to beat Bush that year.

And THIS OP is talking about the Iraq war

[Autumn]

60. And your post that I responded to wasn't about the Iraq war. Was it?

So please save your OT scold. Your post was claiming that the threats from supporters of an "anointed one" and progressives would cause Biden to lose again. Neither of those things was a factor in his loss in 08 or 2016.

21. oldsoftie
Biden's biggest threat is within his own party. "Its coming from inside the house".

He's polling very low with the most progressive wing of the party. I'm afraid those are the same ones who will take their ball and go home if THEIR anointed one, whoever that may be, doesnt win.

[oldsoftie]

117. Yes, but You have to see the difference in the party now compared to then.

And i'm talking about if he WERE to win the nomination. Certainly everyone is going to stay with their picks until they're either the winner of out. But will those of the losing candidates stay home? If they do, trump wins again.

[leftofcool]

51. I love Mayor Pete but if Joe wins the nomination, I am all in.

[TrunKated]

14. Nope.

Bush & Co. Lied to everyone. The war is squarely their responsibility.

[BannonsLiver]

18. No, I live in 2019.

I hold the people responsible for the war responsible for the war. That’s what thinking people do.

[oldsoftie]

23. Boom.

[louis c]

22. How I view the Iraq War vote...

...at the time, the information given to Congress and the public was that there was no question that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and that the smoking gun "may be a mushroom cloud". This bullshit turned out to be a lie, but it was reported out as the truth compiled by US Intelligence. Of course, we know now, that Dick Cheney and his gang were lying to us the whole time.

So, Senators like Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden believed those assessments.

Let me give you a bit of an analogy. I fly to Florida from Boston for a 2 week vacation. I tell my neighbor, who I trust, to watch my house. On my fifth day, my neighbor calls me to tell my house is on fire. I drop everything and fly home. When I get there, there is no fire. My neighbor lied to me. Who's the asshole, me or my neighbor? Maybe you could be critical of me for trusting someone who's untrustworthy, but does anyone think Colin Powell was untrustworthy at the time?

As president, Hillary would have, and Biden will, have complete control of the flow of information that come through the Intelligence Agencies. It won't be filtered through Dick Cheney or anyone like him.

Again, when assessing Joe Biden, just remember these three words: Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin.

[Demsrule86]

29. Right and some here will cry when Trump beats whoever as Biden is the only candidate

and maybe Ryan who can beat Trump,

[oldsoftie]

47. "as of this point in time". Who KNOWs what will happen between now & super Tuesday.

trump could go even lower, get even stupider. Making him beatable by more people. But even then, i cant see Sanders beating him; he's just too far out there for the Independents who win elections

[Demsrule86]

63. Trump will win the electoral college unless we deny him PA, WI and Mi.

[oldsoftie]

118. I think trump has already lost 2 of those as of now.

But again, who knows what happens in the next 18 months

[louis c]

50. I don't know if only Biden can beat Trump...

...but I do analyze that Biden will gather the most electoral votes out of everyone in the running.

We don't need a candidate that increases our margins in New York and California, but can't carry any states in the mid-west. We need a candidate who can overtake the 1% of the vote margin in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Florida. A Biden-Harris ticket does that, in my opinion.

Do I like other candidates positions on issues. Hell ya. Do I disagree with some of Biden's position, past and present? Hell ya. But, like a majority of Democrats, I want the best chance at beating Trump.

My mind could be changed if another candidate emerges with a better chance of beating Trump in 2020, but there's not one now and I don't anticipate one emerging. I'm being practical and tactical. I just want to win.

There are a lot of Democrats who want to change the world this election cycle. Getting rid of Trump is change enough for me. There's plenty of time to change the world after that.

To use a WWII analogy. Let's defeat Hitler first, then we can discuss new alliances and rebuilding Europe.

[Demsrule86]

61. Who else can take PA,WI and MI.?

[louis c]

66. No one can do better than Biden in those three states...

...How bad Trump does is up for debate.

[Demsrule86]

68. Yes...we won last time...by millions of votes. Meaningless if you

don't win the electoral college. Those three states deny Trump any path to victory.

[shanny]

112. ...

Ryan?

[Demsrule86]

25. No.

[Turbineguy]

33. Trump was against the war.

So we should keep him. Unless he lied, in which case we should still keep him.

[oldsoftie]

48. Holy crap, thats right. Trump was adamantly opposed from the start. Good catch!

[tymorial]

35. No

[delisen]

40. Biden did vote for the Iraq War Res but was elected as vp in 2008

Last edited Wed Apr 24, 2019, 09:29 AM - Edit history (1)

So I think the supposed Iraq Resolution vote being a "disqualifier" may have been part of an anti-female candidate vote-specifically against Hillary Clinton. (Both senators from NY, hardest hit by the 9/11 attack, voted for the Iraq War Resolution.

I don't recall any outcry against Biden being selected as vp due to his war vote. In a sense many Democrats endorsed the resolution in 2008 by
apparently accepting Biden as vp.

From the N Y Times in 2002:
The actions came after long days of debate on the House and Senate floors over Mr. Bush's decision to confront Iraq. The president argued that in the post-Sept. 11 world, Mr. Hussein, the Iraqi leader, could provide terrorist groups with chemical, biological or nuclear weapons or use them himself.

Under the resolution, President Bush is authorized to use the armed forces ``as he determines to be necessary and appropriate'' to defend the nation against ``the continuing threat posed by Iraq,'' and to enforce ``all relevant'' United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq. He is required to report to Congress within 48 hours of any military action.

The resolution was far less broad than the initial resolution put forward by the White House, which members of both parties said was too open-ended and could conceivably allow military action throughout the Middle East. In a concession to Democrats, the resolution encourages the president to try to work through the United Nations before acting alone. Still, it leaves him with broad latitude.

[dsc]

42. Of course not he has a penis silly

[leftofcool]

53. LOL

[George II]

46. For the umpteenth time, neither Biden nor any other Senator "voted for the Iraq war". That's NOT...

....what the AUMF was.

Simply stated, the AUMF gave the president the authorization to start military action against Iraq if certain conditions were not met by Iraq, including complying with several UN resolutions.

The reason we went to war with Iraq is that the bush administration LIED to the American people and the United Nations. Had they been truthful, there never would have been a war. Even Colin Powell, who presented the US case to the United Nations, has admitted that he was given false information.

So, bottom line, Biden did not vote for the Iraq war.

[leftofcool]

57. I know that and you know that

Just testing my hypocrisy meter this morning

[Cha]

62. REC! I appreciate you explaining that,

George.. whenever needed.

[LongtimeAZDem]

83. As we used to say on USENET, "This needs to be in the FAQ"

[George II]

85. We used to say "RTFF"! Or in this case "RTFAUMF"!

[Peacetrain]

58. No

[jberryhill]

64. Obama didn't think so

[beachbum bob]

69. nope, didn't disqualify Hillary in my book, the only person I hold accountable is Colin Powell

[BlueStater]

71. It's part of a multitude of things that disqualify him.

The one thing Joe Biden is exceptionally good at is being on the wrong side of history.

Voted to allow states to overturn Roe v. Wade (1982)
Anita Hill (1991)
Wrote the Patriot Act (1995)
Voted against gay marriage (1996)
Voted to repeal Glass-Steagall (1999)
Voted for the Iraq War (2002)
Voted to end bankruptcy for student debt (2005)

But he once said he wanted to beat Trump up so we should totally make him our nominee now.

[George II]

86. Which Patriot Act are you talking about? The Patriot Act that's on the books...

...wasn't written until 2001 and has been updated at least once since then, maybe more.

[BlueStater]

92. This:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibus_Counterterrorism_Act_of_1995

"The Omnibus Counterterrorism Act of 1995, or US Senate bills S.390 and S.761.[1] were two bills introduced by Senator Joe Biden and Senator Tom Daschle on behalf of the Clinton Administration on February 10, 1995.[2][3] The bill was co sponsored by Senators Alfonse D'Amato, Dianne Feinstein, Robert J. Kerrey, Herb Kohl, Jon Kyl, Barbara A. Mikulski and Arlen Specter.[4] Representative Chuck Schumer sponsored the bill (H.R. 896) in the US House of Representatives.[3][5] Both bills were never put to a vote, although a significantly altered version of the House bill became law as the Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996.[6][7] Joe Biden has said that the 2001 USAPATRIOT Act is essentially a duplicate of his 1995 bill.[8]"

[zaj]

76. Very little disqualifies electable Dem candidates these days...

... not should it.

[Mike Nelson]

87. No, but...

… it's fair to discuss. I'd like to hear him explain... it's a political vote. I understand why Democrats voted yes... Colin Powell was holding up bottles of Anthrax and they were talking about mushroom clouds.... all lies, as Iraq did not send Anthrax and the 9/11 terrorists were from Saudi Arabia... many people still don't really remember it correctly... Bush propaganda worked.

[Jokerman]

88. Yes

[Dem4Life101]

89. No but ...

My issue with Biden is he wouldn't create real change. Yes, real change from Trump obviously but I rather see a candidate that is more to the "left".

No doubt Biden is a good guy and could help us have a better standing in the world again. But I do not see him trying to get Medicare for all - lowering college tuition rates ... etc.

I actually saw Biden speak in West York, PA at a High School. I do like him a lot.

[R B Garr]

90. There would be no Iraq war but for the purity standards

of the third party liar Naderites which gave us Bush /Cheney. Those that ushered in Bush/Cheney gave us that war.

[LongtimeAZDem]

91. +∞

[LongtimeAZDem]

94. There were a hell of a lot of people who supported the Iraq war who deny it now

[Hoyt]

95. If Pete B joined military at a time when they were killing innocent Muslims, does that disqualify

him?

There were lots of reasons Democrats voted for the Iraq War Resolution, a war drummed up by george war bush, cheney and GOPers, at a time when patriotism and supporting the troops was high. It was going to pass, with or without, Biden or Clinton's vote. I suspect Pete B would have voted for it too.

[comradebillyboy]

98. No more so than Bernie's vote for the crime bill or his many votes aginst

Russia sanctions. Pete didn't vote for the war but he did volunteer to fight in it, but as a veteran myself, I don't hold that against him.

[LakeArenal]

101. No

[no_hypocrisy]

102. No, more than half of the democratic Senators in 2002 voted in favor of the Iraq Resolution

Here they are: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/who-voted-to-authorize-fo_b_85652

Please note that HRC and Schumer voted in favor. Does this aberration disqualify or compromise their integrity?

[BlueFlorida]

103. ...

Scraping the bottom of the barrel

[shanny]

104. "if"? He did.

and imo it does, along with a number of other things

[KPN]

109. No, but it definitely is a position I disagreed with at the time. Will I hold it against him?

Not in and of itself. Every candidate has some background that I probably have taken or could take exception to. My primary vote will be based on who best fits my views on issues, priorities, and requisite skills for being an effective President, not who is perfect.

[stonecutter357]

113. I'll take Joe Biden over most of the rest anyday !

[loyalsister]

114. I think millennials should speak to this

They're the ones who have sacrificed most for it.

[Jose Garcia]

115. Only if you are a single--issue voter

[EveHammond13]

116. LOL. is this the best you've got? it's kind of lazy. #lame

[Renew Deal]

119. It didn't disqualify Kerry and Hillary