Kamala Harris calls for impeachment, Bernie Sanders does not

[ehrnst]

Kamala Harris said on Monday that “Congress should take the steps towards impeachment” of President Trump, marking her strongest stance yet on the repercussions the president should face after the investigation by special counsel Robert S. Mueller III.

Mueller’s report presented “a lot of good evidence pointing to … obstruction of justice” by the president, Harris said, even as she expressed doubt that congressional Republicans would turn on Trump.

Harris staked the position at a CNN town hall in Manchester, N.H., where an hour earlier, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont took a different stance. Sanders, one of Trump’s most vocal critics among the Democratic presidential candidates, said he worried that pursuing impeachment would undercut Democrats’ chances of beating him at the ballot box.

“If for the next year and half all Congress is talking about is Trump, Trump, Trump” rather than issues like healthcare and the minimum wage, he said, “I worry that works for Trump’s advantage.

Sanders also put himself in rare disagreement with Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a 2020 campaign rival who shares most of his progressive views. She was the first major candidate to call for Trump’s impeachment last week after the release of the Mueller report.”

https://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-2020-democratic-candidates-new-hampshire-town-hall-20190422-story.html

[NurseJackie]

1. Well, now... that's very interesting! Isn't it?

Kamala Harris calls for impeachment, Bernie Sanders does not

Well, now... that's very interesting! Isn't it?

[Eliot Rosewater]

4. No surprise AT ALL

While I was on record for impeachment DAY TWO of his filthy fucking illegal reign, and I am still for impeachment, I knew who wouldnt be and why, the WHY is EVERYTHING here.

Now, if we dont impeach because Nancy and others who know more than I do say not to, I am OK with that also.

[ehrnst]

6. Seeing Bernie agreeing with Pelosi is surprising, if you don't look at his reasons.

The prospect of having universally watched impeachment hearings on Russian interference into the 2016 elections, including the Mueller report findings that Russia was also supporting Sanders along with Trump has to be rather nerve wracking for the candidate.

[BlueFlorida]

11. Interesting indeed

but looking at it another way, not interesting and completely predictable.

[FailureToCommunicate]

2. Good! Let's get "the steps toward impeachment" going a bit faster.

[sarcasmo]

3. +1

[ehrnst]

5. Do you know how long Watergate took? (nt)

[FailureToCommunicate]

7. I watched it live for **too much** of my youth. Yes, it took a long time but it

had to START somewhere. The House needs to bring in the networks, and GET GOING!

[ehrnst]

8. So you think Bernie has this wrong?

I think that he will never give Pelosi credit for her wisdom on proceeding as she is, but I think he's objecting for different reasons.

I don't think he wants to be campaigning during testimony about Russian interference in the 2016 election, and have the Mueller report findings come back up that Russia was supporting him as well as Trump.

[FailureToCommunicate]

9. Wrong as in not pursue impeachment because "timing" ? Then yes. Warren seems to

think it should go forward.

History will judge harshly if they do nothing.

[ehrnst]

10. Congress isn't "doing nothing" concerning impeachment. Far from it.

[BlueFlorida]

13. Exactly this

Putin must be hidden from people's thoughts.

[BannonsLiver]

12. Pretzel logic incoming.

Get to your battle stations. Incoming pretzel logic...

[BlueFlorida]

14. Coming to a forum near you...

[BlueFlorida]

16. You're way more creative than I could ever be

[BannonsLiver]

17. Not really, just observant

[mcar]

18. Interesting

[sheshe2]

19. I see.

[George II]

20. I guess someone doesn't want trump removed from office?

[BannonsLiver]

21. He's also averse to sanctioning Russia for 2016.

[mikeysnot]

27. Do you have a link for this?

[ehrnst]

38. Here you go:

https://ivn.us/2017/08/03/meet-5-lawmakers-voted-against-russia-sanctions-bill/

[ehrnst]

23. I imagine Sanders thinks Trump would be a preferable candidate to run against than Pence.

But I can't imagine a truly Democratic candidate would want Trump to remain in office through November 2020 if there was an opportunity to remove him sooner than later, simply to increase their own chances of grabbing that brass ring

[totodeinhere]

32. "If there was an opportunity." That's the point.

There is no opportunity to remove him through the impeachment process with the current makeup of the Senate. The most we could expect might be three or four Republican senators to cross over. That would not be nearly enough.

Yes, I know the argument that impeachment is the right thing to do even if it ultimately fails to remove him. But if we really want to get rid of him perhaps we should devote all of our energies to defeating him in 2020. A nightmare scenario might be seeing him acquitted by the Senate then reelected in 2020. Then we would be stuck with him for 5 1/2 more years. We can't let that happen.

[ehrnst]

34. You missed the part where I made my point.

"If there was an opportunity to remove him" was the full sentence.

It appears that Sanders is ruling it out impeachment even in the event of hard evidence and bi-partisan support, which is the only circumstance under which he could be removed, and under which Pelosi would go forward with it. He is ruling it out because he believes that congress cannot impeach and do their job at the same time.

I am with you on this - for the reasons you stated. Those are not Sanders' reasons.

[TCJ70]

24. Impeachment doesn't remove a president from office. n/t

[George II]

25. But the process of removing a president from office begins with impeachment.

[mikeysnot]

29. And exposing his corruption and lies in the next year

and voting him out in 2020 so that SDNY can charge him..

best way.

We need to support Schiff, Cummings and Nadler in their pursuit.

[ehrnst]

35. When I bring that up in "IMPEACH HIM RIGHT NOW" threads...

I'm called a russian bot an a shit stirrer.

[totodeinhere]

28. He may want him removed from office but he knows the votes aren't there in the Senate.

There is a school of thought that the fastest and most efficient way to remove him is to beat him in 2020.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Horsecrap!! Impeach Dolt-45, now... the evidence of obstruction is OVERWHELMING!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[totodeinhere]

33. Yes the evidence is overwhelming, but do you really believe that two-thirds

of the Senate cares? If impeachment fails to remove him and he gets reelected in 2020 then we are really up the creek without a paddle.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. The impeachment trial ITSELF will bring the Traitor-in-Chief down...

regardless of whether the Senate RethugliKKKlans vote straight party line to aquit... even better!! I have a hard time believing Bernie doesn't see this (yet?). But, at least Elizabeth and Kamala are on board... good for them!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[totodeinhere]

45. So you are saying that the trial would bring him down even if, as expected he gets acquitted?

If he got acquitted then he would be free to run for reelection and what if he wins? I know that's un unthinkable scenario, but his getting "elected" last time was also unthinkable yet it happened.

I would much rather devote all of my energy and resources to defeating him in the 2020 election. A losing impeachment fight would not help.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

46. I disagree... Democrats can "walk and chew gum at the same time"!!

Impeach Dolt-45... now!! The House has a Constitutional duty to impeach the Obstructionist-in-Chief given the overwhelming evidence against him. Where does the Constitution say impeachment should be off the table if the party controlling the Senate is partisan and likely not to convict?! The damage of an impeachment hearing and trial to the pee-Resident's reelection chances will be worth the "price of admission" regardless of the outcome!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

53. Tell that to Bernie. He's the one who is saying that Congress won't be able to handle health care

if they impeach, and that he things impeachment will help Dolt-45.

You are once again reflexively jumping down someone's throat without even bothering to find out that they are talking about and DEFENDING BERNIE'S POSITION!

Sanders, one of Trump’s most vocal critics among the Democratic presidential candidates, said he worried that pursuing impeachment would undercut Democrats’ chances of beating him at the ballot box.

“If for the next year and half all Congress is talking about is Trump, Trump, Trump” rather than issues like healthcare and the minimum wage, he said, “I worry that works for Trump’s advantage.

Honey, he said the very same thing about Congress back in '98 - that if Congress impeached Clinton, they wouldn't be able to get anything else done... when he was IN CONGRESS.

Now, go ahead and tell us all how "reasonable" thinking that Congress can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

58. Wrong again! Bernie NEVER SAID Congress "won't be able to handle healthcare if they impeach."

Twisting Bernie's words again I see... nice try. So, your premise is wrong.

I splained ACCURATELY what he said, why I disagree and think his concern, while legitimate, shouldn't keep Congress from moving forward with impeachment, and what I WISH he had said. There's no need to put words in Bernie's mouth that he didn't say... I know you don't like him, that'a okay, but, you should at least be fair to him and represent his views accurately.

Anyway, do not feel like you have to respond to these comments based on what Bernie ACTUALLY SAID... I'm not expecting you to. So, go ahead, talk about something Bernie didn't say.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

59. Doubling down yet again... you're the one who said not impeaching NOW is "HORSECRAP!"

Until someone told you that post you called HORSECRAP!! was defending Bernie's position.



AWKWARD.

[ehrnst]

36. So why do you think is Bernie disagrees with you and is opposed to impeaching him?

Maybe you can ask him when you call his office about why he's listed as an I on the Senate website. (Spoiler: he's only a Democrat when he's campaigning for POTUS. He's an Independent Senator the rest of the time.)



from the OP, since you clearly missed it:

Harris staked the position at a CNN town hall in Manchester, N.H., where an hour earlier, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont took a different stance. Sanders, one of Trump’s most vocal critics among the Democratic presidential candidates, said he worried that pursuing impeachment would undercut Democrats’ chances of beating him at the ballot box.

“If for the next year and half all Congress is talking about is Trump, Trump, Trump” rather than issues like healthcare and the minimum wage, he said, “I worry that works for Trump’s advantage.

Sanders also put himself in rare disagreement with Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a 2020 campaign rival who shares most of his progressive views. She was the first major candidate to call for Trump’s impeachment last week after the release of the Mueller report.”[/div]

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

44. LMFAO!! Where did Bernie say he's opposed to impeaching tRumpy.

Yes, IF that's ALL Congress talks about through the primary and the general election, to the exclusion of the progressive agenda America craves, sure, he's worried that it could allow tRumpy to win. That's a legit concern... and I think Congress can "walk and chew gum at the same time."

But, that's not saying Bernie necessarily opposes impeachment under any circumstances. If he does outright oppose impeachment, then yes, then I'll be VERY disappointed in Bernie.

Now, do I wish Bernie would come out strongly for impeachment hearings to start now, as Elizabeth has done... abso-fuckin-lutely!! The evidence of obstruction of justice against the Traitor-in-chief is OVERWHELMING!!

You don't have to twist what Bernie said to try again to win an argument I'm not making.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

51. Backpedal, hard now...

When you thought it was someone else saying it, you called it.....

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. No, backpedaling... that's my view. Why can't you just accurately rep Bernie's view, based on what

he actually SAID. Why twist it, just to win some strawman argument?

These are rhetorical questions... I know the answers, to which you won't give anyway, so no need to.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

56. Keep doubling down on that double standard....

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. No double standard,the evidence of obstruction IS overwhelming & SHOULD lead to impeachment hearings

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

61. Until you learned that post was defending Bernie's position, you called it HORSECRAP!

Now you're backpedaling and defending it.

That's the double standard.

One for Bernie, and one for everyone else.



dou·ble stand·ard
/ˈdəbəl ˈstandərd/
noun
a rule or principle which is unfairly applied in different ways to different people or groups.

[Blue_true]

48. My face is flat against the floor. The all Bernie all the time person disagreeing with Bernie?

Heavens. What is coming of the world?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. Why not just be honest about my view of Bernie? I certainly DO love the guy...

and will defend him against the endless bashing of him by a few. But, anyone who's honest knows I don't agree with everything Bernie says or does, which is why, in this particular instance, I've said I wish he would come out more forcefully, like Elizabeth and Kamala, for impeachment of tRumpy right now given the overwhelming evidence of obstruction of justice, and am willing to give other candidates, like those two, CREDIT when they say or do what I think is right. (Compare that to those who post about Bernie ONLY to criticize him, no matter what he says or does.)

While I understand Bernie's legitimate concern over impeachment, and appreciate that he's not said he's completely opposed to the idea, I do hope he'll come around to calling for impeachment proceedings to start immediately.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

52. Why not just be honest about your attacks on anyone who criticizes him, and your double standards

for everyone else?




But once you found out it was Bernie not wanting impeachment because he thinks it might get Trump re-elected....

I do hope he'll come around to calling for impeachment proceedings to start immediately.

You will attack anyone who dares discuss any less than flattering facts about him, or positions you would call HORSESHIT in anyone else.

Just admit you can't tolerate anything but undiluted praise for him.

That could get you some respect.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

62. Wrong AGAIN... too funny! Did you actually read the post

to which I then responded "Horsecrap..."? Didn't think so... anyone can see what it was I was disagreeing with. That wasn't Bernie's view at all, that was the POSTER'S view... good try though!! Don't blame you from not quoting the poster's words to which I responded "Horsecrap..."

Here, I'll do it for you:

Poster: "He may want him removed from office but he knows the votes aren't there in the Senate..."

Me: "Horsecrap!! Impeach Dolt-45, now... the evidence of obstruction is OVERWHELMING!!"

My point? Clearly, I'm disagreeing with the POSTER'S incorrect view that Bernie knows the "votes aren't there in the Senate" to convict. That's NOT what BERNIE said... that's what the poster THINKS Bernie knows. That's what's "horsecrap"... not what Bernie ACTUALLY said regarding his concern over Congress's ability to handle two things at once, i.e., talking impeachment AND his progressive agenda. I've expressed my thoughts on that, to which, as expected, you refuse to respond.

Anyway, my point is the EVIDENCE for impeachment is OVERWHELMING... so, who even cares whether the votes in the Senate are there or not? That's "horsecrap"... the evidence will come out and STILL help defeat the Traitor-in-Chief. Hell, the evidence of obstruction is SO overwhelming, tRumpy might even resign in shame like Tricky Dick did, without the need for a Senate trial. So, yes, it's horseshit that the votes supposedly aren't there in the Senate.

Now, if you want to talk about what BERNIE actually said, and his legitimate concern over Congress's ability to have impeachment hearings AND address his progressive agenda items, and why I think Congress CAN do both, and why I wish Bernie had come out strongly for impeachment, now, like Elizabeth and Kamala did, I'm happy to engage with you on substance and discuss it. I'm disappointed that Bernie didn't do that, but, at least he didn't say he outright opposes impeachment proceedings, like some (you?) are inaccurately portraying.

But, if you want to have a serious discussion, can we agree, at least, to use rules of common engish? You don't have to distort what I'm sayin. I ask only that you ACCURATELY address Bernie's views and mine, rather than making up strawman arguments, and then, I 'd be happy to respond. (I expect you won't... so, please, don't feel obligated.)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

63. Doubling down, yet again. You called it HORSECRAP when you thought someone else was not

supporing IMPEACHMENT RIGHT NOW!

But when it's Bernie you are 'disappointed.'



Speaking of Bernie's opinion on whether congress could do their job and still impeach... He said in 1998 that Congress couldn't do their job if they impeached and it could possibly "paralyze our government," - using some of the same language he used again the other night as to why impeachment was the wrong choice.

So given that Bernie and his supporters proudly state that he doesn't change his views, even over decades, I think this is definitely part of why he doesn't want impeachment along with claiming that impeachment could give Trump an advantage in the 2020 elections.

Do you agree? If someone else said that, would you also call it HORSECRAP!

There's also the rehashing of the Mueller report findings on Russian interference in the 2016 election that showed Russia promoted Bernie as well as Trump in 2016, and that being discussed in hearings while he's campaiging for POTUS again could be very awkward, especially if the unredacted report has more information on that subject.

[ehrnst]

57. IKR? Apparently didn't see that the comment they were attacking was agreeing with Bernie...

[Skidmore]

22. k & r nt

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

30. Score 1 for Kamala (& Liz)... disappointed in Bernie if indeed it's true he's not for impeachment.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

40. "Dissapointed"? What happened to "HORSECRAP!!"

He supported "the HORSECRAP!" as you put it, himself last night.

Harris staked the position at a CNN town hall in Manchester, N.H., where an hour earlier, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont took a different stance. Sanders, one of Trump’s most vocal critics among the Democratic presidential candidates, said he worried that pursuing impeachment would undercut Democrats’ chances of beating him at the ballot box.

“If for the next year and half all Congress is talking about is Trump, Trump, Trump” rather than issues like healthcare and the minimum wage, he said, “I worry that works for Trump’s advantage.

Sanders also put himself in rare disagreement with Sen. Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, a 2020 campaign rival who shares most of his progressive views. She was the first major candidate to call for Trump’s impeachment last week after the release of the Mueller report.”

A little embarassing calling his position HORSECRAP!!! in front of everyone, isn't it?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

43. Try reading what Bernie said! He's WORRIED pursuing impeachment

would undercut Democrats chances of beating tRumpy.

So, Bernie did NOT say there that he wouldn't support the House pursuing impeachment, but rather, only that he has reservations about doing so, especially IF that's ALL Democrats will be talking about to the exclusion of the popular progressive issues he's prominently brought to national attention.

Now, if Bernie DOES come out and say definitively he's against impeaching tRumpy, that indeed would be disappointing, as I've said.

I know you like to twist my words to try to win some silly argument I never made, so go ahead or change the subject AGAIN... or, surprise me and try having a serious conversation.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[ehrnst]

50. You call not supporting impeachment right now HORSECRAP!

Bernie doesn't support impeachment, because he doesn't think congress can do their job legislating AND impeach...



Double standards anyone?

[Cha]

39. KR!

[betsuni]

41. K&R

[lapucelle]

42. I wonder why BS doesn't want to impeach.

“It goes without saying that the Congress has got to take a hard look and do a hard investigation … so we get to the truth,” he said. “But here is my concern: At the end of the day, what is most important to me is to see that Donald Trump is not reelected president.”

How would impeachment help Trump to get re-elected?

[Kentonio]

65. Because a lot of people in the country who don't follow politics closely

Would see an acquittal as meaning he was actually innocent. He’d then play the witch hunt card for all it was worth, and it would likely get him a lot of votes.

If this was a simple decision, the impeachment process would have already started.

[lapucelle]

66. Did he say that? N/T

[Kentonio]

67. Who?

[lapucelle]

68. sanders n/t

[Kentonio]

69. No, I said that.

[Honeycombe8]

47. I'm not a fan of either. But Sanders gave the right answer. It's not his call...or Harris's.

Mayor Pete gave the best answer. Sanders was similar, but less definite about his opinion.

Sanders, IMO, is about his agenda. Not about Trump or Russia or foreign policy or the like. That's an observation, not at all a criticism.

Pete's answer was more recognition of that being the House of Rep's decision. Separation of powers. He did say that Trump has certainly given plenty of reason to be impeached. Sanders was similar, except he didn't say much about his opinion about impeachment. That's fine.

I don't want to see them get bogged down in the Trump impeachment thing.

[Mike Nelson]

54. I don't think Bernie...

… put that well. He probably meant impeach, but with careful thought. Bernie has always been very sharp... but he was a little less so in that town hall. At one point, he said he would be making only is Senator salary in a couple years, perhaps no book royalties. He should have said he'd be making the President's salary. Anderson did follow up and took a little of the sting off that...

… my position changed with the Mueller report. I know there are not 67 votes to convict and don't want President Pence, but it needs to be "on the record" that Democrats decided impeachment was necessary.

[Dem4Life101]

64. Bernies quote

“If for the next year and half all Congress is talking about is Trump, Trump, Trump” rather than issues like healthcare and the minimum wage, he said, “I worry that works for Trump’s advantage.

is correct. I'm with Bernie. The candidates need to continue to talk about the issues Americans are facing. There is no doubt that Bernie would love to see Trump impeached. Bottom line is it will never get through the senate. And if there is a vote in the Senate I bet Bernie votes to impeach Trump.

I like Bernie's approach. Keep talking about the issues. He has the American people agreeing with him on the biggest issues I care about.