I disagree with Bernie.

[boston bean]

I do not think the boston bomber and murderers and rapists in prison should be able to vote.

If by some chance they get out after serving their time, that is a different story.

I am sure the public agrees. This will haunt him.

Kamala Harris was ill prepared to answer the question and I am not sure she actually understood the distinction being made and was a bit confused about the question. Shame on her crew for not preparing her.

[ehrnst]

1. Well, you know if she was prepared for the question, she'd be called "over-prepared."

and described as "robotic."

There was no way for her to have answered that and avoided criticism for her answer.

The candidate with the opposing viewpoint, however....

[Celerity]

36. robotic is not always a bad thing

Pete Buttigieg Stuns Campaign Crowd By Speaking To Manufacturing Robots In Fluent Binary

DES MOINES, IA—Revealing that he taught himself the language after developing an interest in computer science and artificial intelligence, Democratic presidential candidate Pete Buttigieg stunned a campaign crowd Wednesday by speaking to manufacturing robots in fluent binary. “01001001 00100111 01101101 00100000 01101000 01101111 01101110 01101111 01110010 01100101 01100100 00100000 01110100 01101111 00100000 01101101 01100101 01100101 01110100 00100000 01110111 01101001 01110100 01101000 00100000 01110011 01110101 01100011 01101000 00100000 01101000 01100001 01110010 01100100 00101101 01110111 01101111 01110010 01101011 01101001 01101110 01100111 00101100 00100000 01110100 01110010 01110101 01100101 00100000 01000001 01101101 01100101 01110010 01101001 01100011 01100001 01101110 01110011 00101110 00100000,” said the 37-year-old South Bend, IN mayor to the awe-struck machines, delivering the message by emitting a series of high-pitched tones and beeps with a perfect accent. “To all of you, I say 01100001 01110011 00100000 01110000 01110010 01100101 01110011 01101001 01100100 01100101 01101110 01110100 00101100 00100000 01001001 00100000 01110111 01101001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01101110 01100101 01110110 01100101 01110010 00100000 01110011 01110100 01101111 01110000 00100000 01100110 01101001 01100111 01101000 01110100 01101001 01101110 01100111 00100000 01100110 01101111 01110010 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00101110 01000100 01100101 01110011 01110000 01101001 01110100 01100101 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110010 00100000 01100100 01101001 01100110 01100110 01100101 01110010 01100101 01101110 01100011 01100101 01110011 00100000 01110111 01100101 00100000 01100001 01101100 01101100 00100000 01110111 01100001 01101110 01110100 00100000 01100110 01110010 01100101 01100101 01100100 01101111 01101101 00101100 00100000 01100100 01100101 01101101 01101111 01100011 01110010 01100001 01100011 01111001 00101100 00100000 01100001 01101110 01100100 00100000 01100101 01101100 01100101 01100011 01110100 01110010 01101001 01100011 01101001 01110100 01111001 00101110 00100000.” At press time, U.S. manufacturing robots had donated $10 million dollars to Buttigieg’s campaign and helped him surge to the top of polls among Democratic primary candidates.

[murielm99]

37. I like your sense of humor,

fellow Pete supporter.

[ehrnst]

38. I hadn't seen that - thanks!

However, in women - HRC as the prime example - it's considered "off-putting."

And if they are accomplished in languages, such as Gillibrand with Mandarin, it's barely mentioned, let alone gushed over. If women write books, like Warren and Harris have done with children's books, it's called a cynical ploy.

We are still in the damned if she does/damned if she doesn't era of women in politics.

[MH1]

42. Yes, we are (still in that era) and it SUCKS. But,

2020 election is too important (as was 2016, sigh) for me to act as if I live in the world I WISH I lived in. I will be choosing my candidate based on the world we ARE in. Sadly.

(and no, I don't know who it is yet. I was pretty sure Sherrod Brown would do. Am not convinced of a replacement yet.)

[brooklynite]

2. Warren restored some of my confidence in her ability to campaign...

I thought her answers were crisp, engaging, and focus on what voters care about.

[boston bean]

3. I thought both she and Klobuchar were strong.

[brooklynite]

4. Concur.

[madaboutharry]

5. I think there are probably 10 people who think people

incarcerated should have the right to vote. Restoration of voting rights after someone has served their time is a different conversation.

Another moment when Bernie Sanders reminds me why I don't like him.

The answer given by Kamala Harris bothered me. I like Kamala Harris, but she seemed to be trying to please all the people all of the time. That isn't a winning strategy.

Once again, Mayor Pete seems to know what he thinks.

[boston bean]

6. I truly think she thought they were discussing after release.

But we shall see.

[rgbecker]

27. Count me as one of the 10.

Voting has nothing to do with being or not being in jail. What's the quickest way to hell if not somebody like Trump or your local police department throwing people in jail, for say, enjoying a joint and then continuing in power. The idea of keeping people from voting, for any reason, is just plain Republican crap.

[JudyM]

40. The "slippery slope" argument he made is compelling. Drawing any line among convicts is highly

problematic. I don’t like the idea of a psychopathic murderer voting, but I don’t like the idea of someone with a far lesser offense being deprived of the right to vote.
Prisoners are still entitled to Constitutional protections, they are still members of society.

[Perseus]

31. I have to agree with you on Kamala Harris, that is a reason I changed

She has been trying to please everyone which makes her stands too flexible for my taste. You have to have solid ideas of where you want to take the country if elected, and those are attributes that both Mayor Pete and Warren have, they are both solid in their thinking.

And about Harris not being prepared? She has had a life of politics to be prepared about anything that comes her way, in my view that is a sign of trying to find an answer that is not within you, but one that will please the public. I like her and she was a choice of mine, but as of late she has not been as convincing as she was, to me at least, when she was not running.

[boston bean]

33. Ok. But pleasing the public answer would have been

No. Not while incarcerated.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

53. Like what Kamala's been sayin lately on impeachment, voting rights for prisoners, MFA, PAC $...

May be enough to put her in the top tier of candidates.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[karynnj]

46. Inmates can vote in Vermont and Maine

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/states-rethink-prisoner-voting-rights-incarceration-rates-rise-n850406

[True Dough]

55. Yes, only in two states

That's a strong statement in itself. If you do the crime, you do the time. And if you do the time, you lose your rights.

[karynnj]

58. I responded to a statement that only 10 people likely agree

Obviously if it is law in 2 states, small as they are, more than 10 agree.

[thesquanderer]

48. I think Kamala Harris' answer was fine.

She did not sound like she was ill-prepared, or like she didn't understand the question, or whatever other excuse someone may come up with for the simple fact that she happened to have an answer they didn't agree with.

My only criticism is that she didn't have the full Sanders level courage of her convictions. When Lemon pushed her at the end in the spirit of "is that your final answer?" she softened it slightly by saying she thinks "we should have the conversation." But that's minor. She did make her position clear.

I have the opposite issue. I'm with Sanders on this, but my preferred candidate Pete took a stand against it. Oh well. That's not the first time I've disagreed with Pete, and it probably won't be the last. Maybe I'll stick with him, maybe I won't. But I am quite sure that whoever I vote for will have some positions I disagree with.

As for ten people who agree with Sanders here... I think we may pass that in this thread alone. The other posters have already made very good points about this. I will add that the vast majority of people incarcerated are not Boston Bombers and the like. And the purpose of incarceration is not to unnecessarily take away people's rights. Part of the purpose is to protect public safety, part is rehabilitation (at least in theory), part is deterrence, and sure, part is punishment. But locking them up is the mandated punishment. I don't see the rationale for adding more punishment beyond the sentence itself. Shall we take away their first amendment rights as well? What exactly is the rationale for taking away their right to vote?

[boston bean]

8. I gotta admit watching him threw me back to 2016.

Same ole, same ole.

[ehrnst]

24. I don't think he's an idiot at all.

I do think that he lacks interpersonal skills, the ability to admit he has ever been wrong or when he isn't the smartest person in the room, and listening skills, which put together can come across as clueless when it's not really cluelessness.

But no, he's not an idiot. He's a comfortable, longtime career politician, who's learned the ways of honing a talking point, and hitting the "American Idol long note hold" moment in a speech to work a crowd. He detects when an opportunity presents itself, and strikes. He knows that this is his last opportunity for those adoring crowds before retiring to book tours and paid speaking engagements.

[ehrnst]

9. I propose a middle ground.

Since many, many inmates in minimun-security facilities (Federal Prison Camps) are in for drug charges that disproportionately deployed against low income POC, their votes (especially those in for profit facilities) could help to elect candidates who have their interests in mind. Candidates would be impelled to go to those facilities for town halls.

Those in for violent offenses, like the ones that you listed, could still be prohibited from voting. Many states have already made that distinction for those who are ex-offenders.

[boston bean]

11. That wasn't the question and what was proposed.

It is that kind of idiocy that affects all Democrats. The paint brush is broad brushing right now.

Ie, Democrats want the boston bomber to vote.

[ehrnst]

25. True, Sanders is an "all or nothing," "my way or the highway" politician.

[boston bean]

26. The other implication is that

the boston bomber would vote for a democrat, that is why they want those persons to be able to vote.

This is a lose lose proposition.

I was distressed Kamala Harris was either confused and unprepared regarding this or that she may support it.

[WeekiWater]

10. I think all of those you mention should be able to vote.

It's not that I want to specifically highlight them, I just firmly believe that all persons should be able to vote.

I believe a system should be set up where they can use the city or county commission address from the area of their address when arrested. That is where they will receive their absentee ballot from.

[kennetha]

12. Because?

You want to organize the drug king, mafia boss, assassin, terrorist, pedophile caucus?

[WeekiWater]

13. Exactly. NT

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. I'm okay with prisoners voting.

It's definitely not enough to get me to vote for Bernie, though.

[boston bean]

15. I submit a huge majority are not.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. The number I've seen is that generally 3 in 4 are against it.

[boston bean]

20. I haven't seen a number, but 75% is pretty big.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

23. It is.

[kennetha]

16. All prisoners, no matter their crime? Why?

[unc70]

21. Because otherwise how do you sort it out

Make the rule simple: Everyone can vote.

Contrast that with the current situation in some states. A minimal felony (drug use, bar fight, whatever) and your right to vote is gone, possibly forever.

Yes, some vile people would be able to vote. Many already do.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. "Yes, some vile people would be able to vote. Many already do." Yeah, they're called RethugliKKKlans

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[crazytown]

41. +1

[Hassin Bin Sober]

35. Yep. Voting as a human right. If we look at it that way, all sorts of wrongs get righted.

But no, let’s focus on the very worst scenario and make policy based on those handful of people.

Oh but what about Jack The Ripper, do you want him to vote? Huh? Huh? Why do you hate America?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. There you go AGAIN... making WAY too much sense!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Yes.

To quote Earl Warren, "Citizenship is not a right that expires upon misbehavior."

[boston bean]

28. People in jail have lost their freedom.

That is what we as a society have decided as punishment.

Now does the system have many problems. Private prisons. Racism. Need criminal justice reform? Yes yes yes.

But the boston bomber, rapists and murders being allowed to vote does nothing to help in that regard. It is not a solution.

Allowing a felon to vote after they have paid their debt to society? YES!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. How do you think you get criminal justice reform...you vote in the politicians who will legislate it

So, it's only fair that prisoners should retain the right to vote. Good to see Bernie leading, once again, on important issues of the day, and good for Kamala that she's on board too.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

34. They lose their freedom, but not their citizenship.

[Agschmid]

51. Yup.

[loyalsister]

47. Same here

With the exception of election fraud or meddling, I think depriving people of any sense of inclusion in the outside world is not helpful.

People in prison have families and potentially a life outside of prison ahead of them. We all benefit if they see themselves in it as citizens contributing to the common good rather than ostracized and forever condemned.

I would especially like to see every single inmate with non violent drug war convictions be able to vote on how they and their families might be treated with criminal justice reform.

One argument against an affirmative right to vote is that it might result in the wrong kind of people voting - as if criminal convictions weed out all of the terrible people in the US. The people who were responsible for destroying lives via the financial manipulation that brought about the 2008 recession still have their voting rights.

[kydemo]

18. Yes, I disagree with Berbie

It is a pretty fundamental. point taught in high school Civics classes that when one commits a felony, he/she no longer enjoys the full range of rights afforded by the Constitution. There is no slippery slope here. I am afraid that this.idea promotes a perception that Bernie is "Santa Claus" giving out all sorts of. gifts to his chldren with no plan of how to pay for the gifts that his children expect. An.easy attack by Republicans. And they will use it effectively against us if Bernie is our nominee.

I thought Klobuchar and Buttigieg were by far the most impressive in the CNN town halls last night.

[boston bean]

19. I like them both too.

I think Klobuchar might have had the best performance.

[rgbecker]

45. I gotta ask, what high school is teaching the Constitution is not for prisoners?

[rurallib]

30. Right now, this is really a state level question

I kind of wondered if somebody didn't get that one out there to get Dems to say something that can be taken out of context for a future ad.

Personally, I think prison inmates should be able to vote. Few people are as directly affected as they are, especially by state legislatures.

[OneBro]

39. Every citizen should be able to vote.

Bush and Cheney wrongly caused the deaths of a LOT more people than the Boston Bomber, Ted Bundy, and Timothy McVeigh combined, yet Bush and Cheney still get to vote.

Disenfranchisement via felony conviction is an American tradition founded in racism, not sound public policy, and the fact that our legal system is anything but a justice system only serves to pour salt in the wounds of the wrongly convicted.

Given America’s long history of using disenfranchisement of poor and people of color, it is stunning that so many are quick to side with Jim Crow. Regardless, are we really too dense to carve out exceptions for the worst of the worst like the Boston Bomber, or are there deeper “concerns” at play.

Get your pound of flesh by punishing people with fines and/or jail time, but disenfranchisement should be the exception, not the rule.

[David__77]

43. I don't like the idea of stripping black people of voting rights.

One in fifty black people are behind bars.

I think it’s reasonable, after this country’s history regarding voting rights, to if anything err on the side of extending them.

None of this is to say those who disagree with granting prisoners voting rights does like the idea of stripping black people of voting rights.

I was surprised by Sanders stating his position. I don’t have a firm position on this. I do think it would be reasonable to make stripping of voting rights a specific and rare sentence.

[karynnj]

44. Maine and Vermont both allow inmates the right to vote

So, Bernie's position is not completely out of the norm. I think the difficulty is that it is easy, as you did, to identify the most horrendous people in prison and say that they should not be able to cote. However, actually drawing a line and saying these people should lose their right to vote would not be easy.

I personally am more concerned when the right to vote is denied even after felons leave prison in some states.

Not to mention, there are cases where prisons are in places like upstate NY and the prisoners are counted in the Census as being where they are. This gives these otherwise rather sparsely populated areas a higher population - giving them more representation than the local numbers would alone give them. I wonder if allowing prisoners to vote would happen in conjunction with counting them in their "permanent address" - often NYC.

[Cha]

49. Kick

[ecstatic]

50. I agree, I don't think she understood what Lemon was saying

as far as CURRENTLY incarcerated killers/terrorists. Also, I think she was trying to run away from her prosecutor background. I wish she'd stop that and OWN it proudly. There is absolutely nothing to be ashamed of with regard to her District Attorney past.

[stonecutter357]

52. K&R

[BlueFlorida]

56. I disagree with you nt

[Buzz cook]

57. I agree with Bernie on this.

The punishment for crime is imprisonment. Removing the right to vote isn't justified.

If our system is based on the rights of the individual then taking any right away is a very serious matter.

We have taken a persons freedom because in the USA incarceration is the default punishment. We warehouse prisoners because we are unable or unwilling to rehabilitate them.
That being the case our form of incarceration is already cruel and unusual. We have defacto taken away a huge part of a persons 8th amendment rights.

How is taking away a person's ability to vote helping society? What ills are cured, what harms alleviated? If a prisoner votes will he use that vote in such a manner as to over throw the state?

No. None of that is worth the cost.

Voting is the secular sacrament that makes our, or any democracy work. We must hold the right to vote as of the highest value. By removing it without specific reason we debase voting and make it a simple privilege.

I have to add that at its base, removing the right to vote is racist in practice and often in intent.