The 20-year argument between Joe Biden and Elizabeth Warren over bankruptcy, explained

[CentralMass]

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/5/6/18518381/baccpa-bankruptcy-bill-2005-biden-warren
"A clash over a 2005 bankruptcy bill — and a broader contrast in worldviews.

Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) was the first Democratic 2020 hopeful to take a direct swing at former Vice President Joe Biden since he got into the race, accusing him of being “on the side of the credit companies” in a fight that launched her political career a decade ago.

Warren’s quarrel with Biden isn’t personal. It’s about a 2005 bankruptcy bill he supported as a senator. Warren opposed the bill so vehemently that its passage inspired her transition from a Harvard bankruptcy law professor, who studied middle-class economics, to a senator and now a presidential hopeful.

“I got in that fight because [families] just didn’t have anyone and Joe Biden was on the side of the credit card companies,” Warren said after an April rally in Iowa. “It’s all a matter of public record.”

The bill made it harder for individuals to file for bankruptcy and get out of debt, a legal change that credit card companies and many major retailers had championed for years. The bill passed Congress with large majorities, but most Democratic senators, including Barack Obama, voted no. Biden voted yes and was widely seen at the time as one of the bill’s major Democratic champions."

More at the link.

[BeckyDem]

1. Sanders/Warren 2020

[CentralMass]

3. That would be sweet.

[still_one]

4. You realize if Warren was VP the republican Governor of Mass would choose a republican replacement

[BeckyDem]

8. Did you request she not run at all?

If she had the nomination she would be replaced.

[still_one]

16. That was different, she was running for president, and a president was well worth it

Regardless, i do not believe Warren will accept a VP slot

[BeckyDem]

17. Your opinion. Warren VP can help Bernie win. I want them both to work on their

common ground policies together that Biden won't touch.

[still_one]

20. Isn't going to happen if Sanders doesnt get the nomination, and things aren't looking very good for

that to happen

When you have a candidate who characterizes "establishment Democrats" as the enemy, and hires Jill Stein supporter Gray, and Hillary hating Sirota and Turner we will see how that works out for him in the remaining primaries

[BeckyDem]

22. Yea, so I've heard. Biden's policies are not likely to get the Warren ok and for good reason.

Clyburn endorsed Biden and it was a game changer. I wonder why he felt the need to not endorse Warren?

Clyburn has taken more than $1 million in pharma money in a decade, far surpassing peers
https://www.postandcourier.com/health/clyburn-has-taken-more-than-million-in-pharma-money-in/article_62b10180-d956-11e8-9122-4f50316f66fa.html

[questionseverything]

26. honestly i wish i hadnt read that

Scrutiny of where Clyburn, 78, receives donations from is relevant given his recent election to House Majority Whip, the No. 3 leadership position in the House. He has been among the top Democrats in Congress for more than a decade, making it little surprise he would be among the chief recipients of the industry’s cash.
Still, his total contributions from the industry, which makes everything from ibuprofen to joint replacements, stands out when matched against his peers. The reason is likely a combination of his hand in the passage of a health care overhaul, his leadership roles and the characteristics of his district, which includes two major research institutions.
Clyburn also has been in office since 1992; most other members of the delegation have served only since 2010.
Cyburn spokesman Patrick Devlin said the congressman received the donations because of his “strong support for medical and scientific research.” He also noted Clyburn was an architect of the Affordable Care Act, later ruled a win for the pharmaceutical industry,

[BeckyDem]

33. He shouldn't take the money.

[pnwmom]

5. Neither of them has much support in the African American community,

so that wouldn't be a smart combination.

[wackadoo wabbit]

25. From your mouth to god's ears! (n/t)

[NCProgressive]

27. Meh ... Sanders won't be the nominee

Joe/Kamala or Biden/Harris 2020!!
Either way they are stronger together & can't be bought!!!
Jump on the Biden Bandwagon & abandon the revolution!!

[pnwmom]

2. I bet she has a bone to pick with Sanders about some of his gun votes. n/t

[BeckyDem]

6. After Sandy Hook Obama's legislation did not pass because of these 4 DEMOCRATS.

Democrats who are still in the Senate—Colorado’s Michael Bennet, New Mexico’s Martin Heinrich, Maine’s Angus King (a nominal independent), Montana’s Jon Tester and Virginia’s Mark Warner—voting against it.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/obama-gun-control-227625


What would have been more appropriate, suing gun manufacturers or Obama's legislation which Bernie voted for?

[Demsrule86]

9. Suing gun manufacturers...for sure. That would have been very helpful.

[BeckyDem]

12. Over passing the Obama legislation? lol

Last edited Fri Mar 6, 2020, 08:41 PM - Edit history (1)

[pnwmom]

10. Two wrongs don't make Sanders right. n/t

[BeckyDem]

11. It made the arguments against him an over reach and one not appled to those Democrats.

Kerry kept going to the right and he lost to Bush.

[Demsrule86]

21. Kerry was savaged by the left in the primary(read what Michael Moore said about Gore) Kerry

IMHO still won...stolen in Ohio.

[BeckyDem]

23. He kept going to the right on policy, that is undeniable.

[Demsrule86]

7. Nice try. But I have some experience with this law as I helped several of my family members through

this...two cheap courses and you have to qualify financially... my sis had a six figure income, two houses and she did fine...chapter 7...She kept her houses and her cars. Under Warren's plan, people in a chapter 7 would have to give up their property...I find that punitive. The only change I would make is to put student loans back into bankruptcy. The Democrats like Biden made sure that the Bankruptcy bill didn't hurt folks. Also, if you have to go with chapter 11, most pay pennies on the dollar.

[OKNancy]

15. I just wrote about my experience in post #14

I think the whole hate for the 2005 changes is way overblown.
The student loan part is the only negative IMO

[Demsrule86]

19. I absolutely agree...people were hysterical...and yes student loans need to be able to be discharged

[NCProgressive]

28. The problem with not including student loans

is that some people may run up the tab, get their education and immediately file for bankruptcy. If the banks are not protected, they will stop lending and then no one will have tuition assistance.

They should allow bankruptcy on student loans after a period of time like 3 years and only if they had been making payments during that time.

There is an alternative and that is to pay off student loans as a % of income and after some years the remaining debt is forgiven.

One can also work in underprivileged areas and have the debt forgiven - especially for doctors, nurses, social workers etc.

[emmaverybo]

31. Exactly what Biden proposes to do--make it possible to discharge student loans through bankruptcy.

[radius777]

13. Biden does have to answer for votes like this

and explain how he's going to do better in the future.

Voters care far less about the past than the future, and the question going forward is which candidate can (a) defeat Trump (b) be a benefit downballot to keep the House and regain the Senate (c) get things done once in office.

Biden is the clear choice, because he can get moderate Dems in red states to go along with progressive policies.

Bernie could never bring any moderates along, because they wouldn't want to be tagged with the socialism label.

[wyldwolf]

30. no he doesn't

Who's going to make him "answer" for them?

You act as if Democrats don't know how he voted on these issues and would reject him if they only knew. Ludicrous.

Hillary Clinton got 65,853,514 votes in 2016 and had votes like this.

John Kerry, 59 million - the highest popular vote count for a Democrat ever at that time.

Al Gore, 50,999,897

They've never had to "answer" for any votes "progressives" thought were bad. Biden won't either. "Progressives" don't have the political power to force anything.

[radius777]

32. Progressives are 1/3 or so of the party.

The Bernie/Warren wing is strong, let's not deny that, and the party (and the country) has moved in a populist direction in the wake of the Great Recession of 2008.

Biden has to have policies and a vision which addresses the (valid) complaints of progressives - or we'll lose - as we need the base, working class and young people to turn out.

[wyldwolf]

36. So?

How can "progressives" force a person to "answer" for something - especially one with the clout of Joe? When have they EVER done it?

Biden has to have policies and a vision which addresses the (valid) complaints of progressives

That's a completely different argument than having to answer for perceived past heresy.

or we'll lose - as we need the base, working class and young people to turn out.

Sorry, young people are not the base and are unreliable. Neither are white "progressives." The base is African Americans - especially African American women -in the south, the most reliable Democratic voting block. The base is older blue collar workers and labor in the Rustbelt. And they're all in for Joe Biden. They're completely aware of who and what he is.

You statement sound like a veiled threat to sit out the election if you don't get your way ("you" meaning the "progressive" left.) Good luck. That's what the party always expects you to do which is why they do don't spend to much energy courting you.

[OKNancy]

14. It's so weird when I read how hard it is for families to file and get out of debt

I will admit something. My husband and I filed Chapter 7 in 2010. I stupidly tried to hold on to my business after the 2008 recession. I held on by using credit cards and a line of credit I had at my bank.
It was super fast and easy. You have to take an online easy financial course. It took about an hour or less. You have to get a new budget and turn that in. I had a nice woman lawyer. We went into a private room with the bankruptcy judge. It lasted 10 minutes.
We reaffirmed our house and car. The only thing is I had a parent loan that I got to send my daughter to college.
That of course is a stickler for many. But since I had no debt, I could pay that.
It was a relief and it was not hard.

It would be hard on someone who tries to wiggle around the laws*. It is harder for high income people because you have to pass a means test and file Chapter 13 instead.

EDIT: I'm editing to add this. If anyone is thinking about filing, don't be scared. It was a really good thing for my family.

*like taking out a cash advance on a card right before declaring

[TDale313]

18. I watched the Maddow interview last night..,

I know a lot of people were jumping on the “She’ll never endorse Sanders” train after she talked pretty frankly about the bad behavior of some of his supporters and his responsibility to try and address it. But something else was what jumped out at me... and that was the difference in tone when she discussed Sanders and when she discussed Biden. When she talked about Biden... it was formal and positive comments, but it was kind of distant. Very measured. When asked about Bernie, it was warm and “we’ve been friends for a very long time” There was a very different tone.

Now, I suspect she won’t rush in to endorsing either, but will work tirelessly for whoever the nominee is. But if people took from that that she was more favorably inclined towards Biden than Bernie? I just didn’t see that.

[wackadoo wabbit]

24. Thank you for posting this

I wish more people knew about it.

[CentralMass]

29. Well its possiblc her motivations have changed.

[hangaleft]

34. Rec'd to shine a light on Biden's culpability in the enactment of the Bankruptcy Bill

PREFERRED CANDIDATE — ELIZABETH WARREN

[CentralMass]

35. +1

[BeckyDem]

37. Nurses for Bernie Sanders @Nurses4BernieWI I cried myself to sleep last night.

Link to tweet

[CentralMass]

38. There is a time to stand for something and this is one of those times.

[BeckyDem]

39. Yes. So many Americans need help.