Lesson: You won't get most Dems to vote for you when you continually insult most Dems

[gollygee]

And then it isn't particularly shocking when you don't get votes.

Side point: if people don't like you and don't vote for you, they aren't "blocking" you. You aren't entitled to people's votes.

Bernie can't build a coalition because that isn't what he does. He insults people and calls everyone else "the establishment" as if he isn't also a career politician with a lot of money.

[dalton99a]

1. No shit

[olegramps]

33. Sanders is making promises that he can not keep.

He is an opportunistic phony. He says that he is an independent then why doesn't he run as an independent. I only support Democrats and he is no Democrat. People better get educated when he proposes Medicare for All and get acquainted with the fact that it only covers 80% and the rest is up to you. If you require hospitalization you are responsible for a copay the first 9 days at a cost of 150 per day. If you must sent to a rehab center it only covers the first 20 days and after that you are responsible for the entire bill which my cost was 170.00 a day, yes a day. That is over $5,000 a month.

[elias7]

45. Is there a max out of pocket?

[LovingA2andMI]

55. No....

not with Traditional Medicare. A Medicare Advantage plan avoids many of the out-of-pocket costs and many times include Dental and Vision. Traditional Medicare does NOT include Dental/Vision without a Medicare Advantage plan.

[Rebl2]

79. Medicare advantage

won’t pay for some treatments. For example, I have been told by my dr. they will not pay for a biological drug I take. She is not the only one that has told me this. This drug along with a few others keep my rheumatoid arthritis from flaring up. If I get sick I can’t take it and I go into a flare. Medicare advantage plans are great if you don’t get seriously ill. My father in-law had one and they did a horrible job treating his cancer. In fact he died from their poor care.

[subana]

51. the thing I don't like about him this time is...

...he talks about these programs that sound very good to young people. He tells them how great the future will be when there is a free or low cost health care plan & how they won't have to pay their student loans anymore. They're very attractive ideas but he never tells them how it could be done or what it would require to achieve it! Big things like these don't just happen because a lot of people want them! Even if he were to be elected, it would still be unlikely to happen!

[DownriverDem]

52. Yep

It's all his freebies that Congress will never go along with that his supporters don't understand. For me it's that he's not a true member of the Democratic Party. His attacks on folks like me will never help his campaign.

[onetexan]

60. as Hillary said, BS' campaign is baloney

i will say it again, no Independent should be allowed to run on a Dem ticket. Dangerous and divisive.

[Cha]

36. Sherlock! lol.. Somebody had to say it.. I mean

the op gollygee!

[redstatebluegirl]

2. Absolutely!

I actually liked Bernie very much in 2015. I loved his ideas and how he got young people engaged. But after the convention I lost all respect, and after this primary season I turned totally against him. Both he and many of his supporters are trying to destroy the party I love and have worked for for 45 years. You don't get us to the polls for you doing that.

[gollygee]

4. I voted for him in the 2016 primary

But we need someone who can bring the country together, and that absolutely isn't him. He can't even bring the Democratic Party together. I mean really, he's even tearing progressives apart.

[LovingA2andMI]

62. He even tore apart....

Public Enemy (an iconic Hip Hop group that had been together for 37 years) apart in the last couple of days. Bernie is straight up TOXIC and this is from another FORMER Bernie Supporter that voted for him in the 2016 Primary and Voted for Hillary in the 2016 General Election.

[True Blue American]

26. They said on CNN

A good share of the young at the rallies did not even vote!

Wonder if that will happen with the paid yahoos at Trump Rallies? His raging schtick is growing old.

[subana]

53. that's the problem with young voters

they have a tendency to not always show up to vote. I can understand that because they're usually busy with work, school or friends.

People my age, I'm 70, & we always vote!!

[elias7]

46. Same here

Now, he just says the same things over and over again. There’s no detail. There’s no plan. I lost my fervor for him.

[redstatebluegirl]

48. Elizabeth would have been a better standard bearer for progressives than BS.

She is brilliant, has plans and programs ready to go. She also has a better legislative track record.

[LovingA2andMI]

59. Yes, She is!!!

All Day Long.

[Perseus]

3. Please stop, Biden will be the nominee, now stop this craziness

You are not making any points, on the contrary, you may be making a lot of people very angry, IT IS TIME TO UNITE, so please stop it.

[zackymilly]

5. Could switching from Undecided to Biden help start the unity? n/t

[beastie boy]

14. No. Bernie is about to go full negative on Biden. It's Bernie who needs to be stopped. For the sake

of unity.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

24. I heard Warren still dissing him. Seems counterproductive to me.

Amy and Pete stock rose considerably with their magnanimous endorsements. Not sure the value in continuing down a dead end path.

[harun]

99. +1

[hlthe2b]

6. and then (some of) his supporters and advisers take it infinitely further.

Bernie is an "ideas" person, I don't deny that at all. But, he can't emulate his ultimate opponent's tactics.

[dalton99a]

7. A lot of his ideas came from Warren

[hlthe2b]

10. That is true.

[dlk]

8. Waving your hands in people's faces while yelling worn out '60's slogans isn't a winning strategy

Taking action and achieving results are, however. This requires building coalitions, and the my way, or the highway approach is counterproductive.

[brush]

17. Well said.

[berksdem]

61. incredibly well said!!

[empedocles]

9. MSNBC, McCaskill just said that in talking to major national pollster, that

in same day California voting, Sanders came in THIRD!!!

We know the BS campaign will beat the 'victory in California' drum, - but that's bs.

This is just about BS and BS supporters anger and ego.

[obamanut2012]

13. Jeebus

[Cha]

38. Wow.. isn't that Interesting! Thank you!

[el_bryanto]

11. You should vote for the candidate who most closely mirrors your idea of what

a good government is. From my perspective that's Sanders, but I gather I'm in the minority on this website.

Bryant

[gollygee]

15. I will vote for the candidate America needs

We need to be brought together and we need someone effective.

[el_bryanto]

16. I totally agree - that's why I support Sanders.

If Biden is the nominee than I will support him, if and when that time comes.

Bryant

[Colo indy]

19. You are not alone.

You are not alone. I admire you and everyone who votes for something, not against someone.
Sadly a lot of people just like to put us down or insult us. All we can do is take it day by day. Fight the good fight, and see what the future holds.
Please don't let anyone get you down. I know how hard it is. You are not alone.

[McKim]

22. The Insults Go both Ways and Should All Be Stopped

The insults have gone both ways and should all be stopped, not tolerated here at DU. I am a 74 year old retired teacher, not a “Bro” and I support Warren and Sanders. When you have been in the classroom and seen how 40% of families are struggling working three jobs as they try to be functional parents you would be supporting Warren/Sanders too. People ought to get out more.
Please stop insulting me.

[dansolo]

29. Good government is a functioning government

I don't see that with Bernie at the helm.

[el_bryanto]

70. Yes - but I obviously do see that - or to be more precise

I don't see Biden being any more able to work with a Republican dominated senate than Sanders. If anything I think Sanders has a stronger position in dealing with McConnel.

Bryant

[Blue_true]

82. We have a chance to give a President Biden a democrat controlled Senate and House.

That all in within our capacity to do in November.

[dansolo]

95. Government involves much more than Congress

You have an extrememly myopic view of what is needed. Trump has decimated the entire government. I trust Joe to fill those roles much more than Bernie, because ideology isn't his number one criteria.

[Scoopster]

101. That's the general guideline for the primaries.

However there comes a point where the field has to be narrowed to one, who we all support against the current bunch of fascist criminals.

[Happy Hoosier]

12. SHOCKING result. NT

[Blue_Tires]

18. Like I said in the other thread,

If Sanders' people want to talk "revolution" that's fine... But when they start talking about ideological purges and how the first thing they're going to do is get Pelosi removed, Dem voters rightfully start getting VERY suspicious...

[True Blue American]

28. They actually said that?

Many of the Congress people who were against Pelosi now say they
Now have her!

[Blue_Tires]

56. Some of the random nuts have said much worse than that on Twitter

[deurbano]

85. And about how MY candidate is the source of all their problems, because she split the "progressive"

vote--as if the 4 Warren voters in my family and all the Warren voters in my older daughter's Warren campaign group ever had any intention of voting for a guy whose campaign attracts so many people who sound just like MAGAts in the ugly contempt and disrespect they've shown Warren. Some of the worst of that lot now say WARREN and HER supporters should be the ones building a coalition to support Sanders! They have no clue. They (in their arrogant delusion) assumed there were millions of first-time voters just waiting for this transformative candidate to inspire them to come flooding to the polls, so they could just shit-can the rest of us. And yeah, my daughter is a Pelosi-appointed CA Dem delegate-- so obviously an "establishment," "corporate shill" (whose main source of income is SSI and SSDI since she is quadriplegic with a speech disability as a result of cerebral palsy).

I voted for Sanders in 1976 for governor when I live in VT for 4 years and he was running as a member of the Liberty Union Party. I heard him on the radio and thought he sounded great. (I was coming from Bakersfield, CA, so anything different was pretty exciting.) I had moved to VT so my young daughter could be part of an innovative program in Woodstock, VT (a program that actually practiced inclusion with the local preschool way back then) for children with disabilities. I was a single mother (I had my daughter as a teenager), struggling to get by (my daughter was already on SSI) because my daughter's father provided no support. Now I find out that guy I voted for in 1976 was a deadbeat dad, himself! He was in his thirties (not a teenager), with a degree from the U of Chicago(!)-- and I know there were jobs available in VT then-- but I guess he had other "priorities," so Levi's mom was on welfare. I just found that out recently (she's quoted in a VT newspaper article--in 1971 or so--about housing discrimination she's faced as a result of being a mother on welfare), and it really pissed me off, especially considering the fine-tooth comb run through the lives of Warren and Clinton for any hint of a false step or inconsistency. (But St. Bernard is above all that; for him we can only focus on the "issues," as opposed to say, the detailed medical report he promised after having a heart attack at 78!)

[KSNY]

20. "Most Dems" are not the "establishment," lobbyists, professional political operatives are...

Most Dems and most Americans are struggling to get by, pay medical bills and doing their best. I don't feel implicated in the least if someone critiques the Democratic "establishment."
Sanders did quite well in California despite the opposition of the corporate media and the establishment.

[Skidmore]

42. I am a Democrat who regularly

lobbies my representative and senator on issues and I lobby them on behalf of groups which have causes or positions I support. Chances are that I lobbied your senator or rep at some point. I never left my family room to do so. I vote for Democratic candidates and have been a party member all my adult life. I am part of the base. I also fit your description of "most Dems" and I don't go looking for candidates who cannot form coalitions that will support issues and causes to realistically accomplish them.

I consider myself both liberal and progressive, as are most Democrats, if truth were to be told and not manipulated. I don't understand this current use of establishment because it seems to be a pejorative aimed at the Democratic party and its base when they do not support Sanders specifically. I don't recall Warren speaking of the party and its members using this language. I suspect that she understands the importance of building coalitions to ensure success. This is why she's always appeared on my list above him.

[George II]

43. The "Establishment" is a mythical campaign ploy.

[Blue_true]

83. The "Establishment" is any democrat that isn't for Sanders. nt

[berksdem]

21. Agree...

I voted BS in the primary against Hillary. Voted Hillary in the GE. We need someone to heal this country after the last 4 years and that is Joe.

[llashram]

23. exactly

[3Hotdogs]

25. Why peeps didn't vote for Sanders. For this one, I go back to the 1898 election - Populist Bryan vs.

McKinley.

Factory owners told their employees that their factory would have to close down if Bryan won. Newspapers predicted economic disasters if Bryan was elected. People bought the propaganda and McKinley won. Then the depression came anyway.


Listen to today's call-in shows: Socialism, this. Government takeover, that. Ask them what socialism is. Their answer is "sputter, sputter, sputter, gub'mint can't do anything right. Capitalism works."

The fact that we have corporatism and not capitalism, doesn't enter into their ill-informed minds because Fox doesn't tell 'em.

That's why most sheeple don't vote for Bernie.

[Blue_true]

84. Calling thoughtful, intelligent people that don't agree with you "sheeple"

really, really doesn't help your cause. In fact it pisses people off.

[3Hotdogs]

86. Sheeple is meant to refer to Fox viewers.

My response was inspired by a caller to Chris Cuomo who identified herself as a Dem. She couldn't vote for Bernie's medicare for all because government is inefficient and would waste too much money. This, besides the fact that private insurance runs on a $15% margin, while Medicare runs on a 3% margin.


A Biden vote or vote for another candidate because Bernie MIGHT not be able to defeat Trump, is a valid reason for the vote. A vote based on nonsense is not a valid reason.

[Blue_true]

88. Ok, I understand better. Thanks. nt

[MineralMan]

100. The word "sheeple" is a vile attack against those who disagree with you

about something or another. It has no place here, in reference to other Democrats.

We are not "peeps." We are Democrats.

"Sheeple" is a right-wing word. Please reconsider your word choices.

[Act_of_Reparation]

27. Have you stopped to consider that's why your candidate is polling so poorly with young people?

[we can do it]

32. Polling doesn't vote apparently.

[Act_of_Reparation]

35. Yeah, I wonder why that is.

[we can do it]

37. Its easier to scream revolution then to actually take an hour and vote.

[Act_of_Reparation]

40. And the award for 2020's Most Predictable Response goes to...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. Ironically, Biden won states where he spent little or no money, like MA and MN.

They didn't vote for him because they didn't like him; it was that simple.

[we can do it]

31. Exactly......Enough of the divisive BS.

[Historic NY]

34. He's got to hornswoggle the voters thinking they are having a revolution

the not me, us, is about him.

[uponit7771]

39. K&R, 30 yrs anywhere is establishment,

[AllyCat]

41. I have supported Sanders in the past.

I will vote for him if he is the nominee.

BUT...I have not supported him this election cycle because of his continued put downs on Democrats. I am a Democrat. I am actually someone he would want to have support him. I cannot support him with much enthusiasm because of the way he talks about us.

If my preferred candidate drops out of the race, I will not be likely to swing support to him unless he is the Democratic Party nominee.

[Demsrule86]

50. +10000

[subana]

44. exactly!

You aren't entitled to people's votes.

you earn votes, you're not entitled to them!

Bernie really needs to learn that being a part of the establishment in today's world is not a bad thing! He probably also doesn't realize that when he talks about the establishment, that democratic voters are offended by that label. Whether he does or not, I doubt he will learn anything from it. He knew 4 years ago that he had a problem with reaching black voters & even though he did reach some of them this time, he still is not reaching enough to win an election & certainly not as running as a democrat!

I really hope we don't have to put up with Bernie in another 4 years! I don't care if he runs, but he shouldn't be allowed to run as a democrat!

[LovingA2andMI]

63. THIS ALL DAY LONG....

" I really hope we don't have to put up with Bernie in another 4 years! I don't care if he runs, but he shouldn't be allowed to run as a democrat!"

[Colo indy]

91. Blue no matter who

So I gather you don't believe in blue no matter who?
Because votes have to be earned?
Don't get me wrong I believe that every vote should be earned. I am just wondering what you think Biden needs to do to win us bernie supporters? What can he do to earn our votes?

[subana]

92. actually it would probably be hard to find any dem

who would vote for trump over any dem, including Bernie! But we are still in the primary part of the campaign where our current competition is other dems. It would not be a difficult choice for me to vote for any democrat including Sanders. I would even have voted for Bloomberg! And that's saying a lot since I haven't voted for a republican in 20 yrs or more.

Biden is a pretty centrist candidate, he still has about 1/2 the year to reach you. The best thing either of you could do is to be willing to listen to the other one.

[subana]

94. you asked how Biden can win your support

you asked what Biden should do to win your support, why not send him a tweet & tell him what you would need to support him?

Link to tweet

[Hortensis]

47. Democrats also don't like promising to illicitly overset

their choice of nominee if it's not him. We also don't like him accepting Russia's assistance, knowing they're using him to defeat us and consolidate RW power.

[Demsrule86]

49. A great example is Florida...Sander's comments have destroyed his chances there...

Castro, AIPAC...the establishment comments...Seriously a really foolish move on his party. If Biden wins Michigan and he helped with the auto bailout...I believe the primary is over.

[LovingA2andMI]

54. All of THIS...

And Bernie Sanders is NOT A DEMOCRAT as he is constantly insulting REAL DEMOCRATS.

[Cary]

57. Being radical means being obnoxious

If they aren't obnoxious then they will no longer be radical, so that lesson just is never to be learned.

[Thekaspervote]

58. To all those bernie supporters that who are just good kind hearted people that believed in a cause

Please!! The unified Democratic Party welcomes you!! Come on in

[Colo indy]

90. Thank you.

Thank you for that. I can tell you reading most of these post makes me feel as if the democratic party doesn't want me or my vote. Most are very insulting. So I do appreciate your effort in trying to assure me that all are welcome, including Bernie supporters.

[redqueen]

64. Except he's not insulting most Dems.

I really miss Paul Wellstone.

It's such a shame his warnings weren't heeded.

[dansolo]

96. But that is the problem, he is insulting most Dems

When he says "Democratic Establishment", he may be referring to some nebulous cabal of Washington insiders. But, in reality, he is referring to any Democrat who doesn't believe in his way of thinking. I believe in the Democratic Party, and I am insulted by anyone who seeks to destroy it.

[redqueen]

97. To me, it's the third way DLC types that have successfully destroyed the party.

Obviously many here are fine with our party having assisted with / championing the Telecommunications Act, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, the IWR, NAFTA, TPP, etc etc and nauseam.

[maxsolomon]

66. That's not the lesson.

The lesson is: MOST PEOPLE DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO POLICY.

They vote on Brand. Biden has Obama's Brand.

[Happy Hoosier]

67. That's one way to spin it...

.... but a lot of people I know took a look at Sanders' policy and determined he was making empty promises.

[maxsolomon]

68. A lot of people YOU know.

That's not everyone.

For instance, I know NO ONE who is voting for Biden in our Primary. It's all Sanders or Warren in my tiny slice of Democratic politics, and mostly Warren.

[Happy Hoosier]

72. I hear ya, but that was kinda my point....

... lotsa ways to spin this.

I mean, you can see SuperT as an Anti-Bernie vote, or a pro-Biden vote, or an anti-Progressive, or Pro-Moderate, or... lots of things. None of us really have any hard data, just anecdotes and personal bias.

[maxsolomon]

75. The OP is saying that Dem voters felt insulted by Sanders.

I think its likely the vast majority never read that infamous tweet, heard about it, or give a flying fuck about "the establishment" or superdelegates (let alone understand the conspiracy that is being alluded to).

It's not complex, this voting business. Trump understands that - all he's ever done is build his personal Brand, and it worked.

[Happy Hoosier]

77. I certainly did....

... so I think there is SOME validity to that. But we don't have any real evidence to back it up. I mean, common sense tells one that if you insult people, they might be resistant to your message. Sanders may have determined he wasn't going to win over "the establishment" and his hope was in turning out new voters. A valid approach perhaps, but the new/younger voters didn't seem to show up for him. Why that is, is open to interpretation.

But let's say you're right, it was all "branding." If that's the case, what does that say about Sanders' "brand?"

[maxsolomon]

78. It isn't going to win.

He should have been working on it 20 years ago, like Gabbard is doing now.

[Happy Hoosier]

80. I think Liz could have been competitive....

... if Sanders hadn't blundered into the race again.

I'm not sure WHAT Gabbard's brand is. "Crackpot?"

[maxsolomon]

87. Smoking hot moderate.

As close to the DINO line as you can get.

[KPN]

69. Not sure that conclusion is supported by the evidence.

There’s no doubt that Democratic voters went strongly for Biden yesterday, but my feeling is it had more to do with who voters are most comfortable with head-to-head against tRump. Exit polls showed relatively large numbers of voters changing their candidate choice from Sanders to Biden yesterday. That says that those voters may have preferred Sanders on the issues, they are more concerned about the consequences of a second tRump term than they are about the issues and decided to go with the conventional wisdom that the moderate Biden is a safer bet. Those people did not vote on the basis of Sanders having issues with the Democratic Party.

That’s not to say that some or even many voters did reject Sanders at the polls because of his criticisms of Democratic Party. There’s enough evidence here alone of that being the case for a substantial number of Democrats.

[tavernier]

71. I just saw a very negative Biden ad. I thought it was put out by trump

but no...

Bernie, how does it benefit the world when you are giving trump ammunition?

[comradebillyboy]

89. It's what he does. He did it in 2016 and he's doing it again

in 2020. A leopard doesn't change it's spots.

[bullwinkle428]

73. Bloomberg learned this lesson last night as well.

[FamousMortimer]

74. Bernie isn't a Democrat

He supports communists. I mean Castro really? He attacks real Democrats. He also can never win the general. He is just a spoiler trying to make enough money off this for a fourth house or maybe his ego needs stroking. I have had run ins with some of his supporters who were vile and threatening as well.

I just don't see why any Democrat would support him. Last election I gave him a serious look because I wasn't a big Hillary fan but once you research him it became obvious he was no Democrat.

[barbtries]

76. this is what really pisses me off.

it's like arguing with my jesus freak friend. I'm an atheist. the bible is a book. she brings it up as if that should end the discussion, well, the bible says blah blah blah. an argument that leaves me cold. so what? i say, Shakespeare says this.

ironically enough I live my life in a way that to my understanding follows the teachings of jesus. they were taught to me outside of a religious context however, and just make sense. do unto others and all that. help the poor. heal the sick, feed the hungry. be a good person.

Bernie and his supporters seem to take it on faith that everybody must believe he's the only candidate worthy of the post. they can't lose graciously. they cannot admit that more people don't want Bernie than do. Well, say I, tough shit. They seem incapable of appreciating the losses that have been absorbed by so many of us who didn't want Bernie in 2016 and don't want him now.

full disclosure: I wanted Bernie in 2016 and even voted for him. then he lost and i was all in for Hillary. I regret that vote now and do not see Bernie through the same rose-colored glasses as I did in 2016. He's ego driven, old, and in ill health. He's angry and patronizing and constantly beating the same dead horse. Bad choice for president. I'm an everyday liberal democrat and i vote. Bernie supporters should realize finally that they are not in the majority.

you started me on a rant. /off

[Stainless]

81. Many Dems insult themselves with their own ignorance

Some Democrats make me laugh with their pettiness and vindictiveness regarding Bernie Sanders. I'll still vote blue in the election no matter what happens before Nov 3rd. Democrats such as you are the reason I'm registered as an Independent.

[lapucelle]

107. Are you a registered independent or an unaffiliated voter? N/T

[ehrnst]

108. Ya get what ya give.

[betsuni]

93. K&R

[ibegurpard]

98. It goes the other way too

Demeaning and condescending to people who think the party has been too accommodating to big money over the best public policy is not a way to win their votes.

[uponit7771]

102. Occam's Razor; Sanders believed he had enough voters to offset losses from democrats after...

... showing a level of disdain.

[empedocles]

103. Achom's Razor?

[uponit7771]

104. yeah, he was Occam's brother ... 😎

[empedocles]

105. .

[Laelth]

106. Wrong, imo.

Lots of people are upset with the Democratic Party for lots of (sometimes valid) reasons.

Naturally, Bernie might have done better if he were a team player. I was none too fond of his regularly hammering on the party, but I don't think that's what caused Joe's victory on Super Tuesday.

What Super Tuesday Democratic voters said is, "We ain't votin' for no Soshulist!" That's the message, and I think we're missing the point if we don't hear it.

Your average Democratic voter is not invested in the party like those of us who post on DU, but a socialist? No way. Not in the South, anyway.

-Laelth