My problem with Bernie's Castro comments.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

Let me start off by saying 1) I don't particularly see Castro as more or less despicable than Putin. 2) I think most of the South Floridians who take offense at Bernie's comment were voting Trump anyway.

By creating a linkage with Castro - a super polarizing figure - Bernie essentially justifies someone like Bloomberg or Mark Cuban making an independent run to "save us from Trump and socialism." As a result, Trump will be reelected. Bernie needs to stick with student loan debt and medical care and not get into high concept political history.

[cherryinpa]

1. True

Is Castro even a selling point for most Americans? No. But its definately a turn-off for many in certain states.

I sort of even get what Bernie is saying, but does it really need to be said.

Is this all politics? Yes, and politics is how you win this particular game.

[OliverQ]

3. Makes you wonder though why Obama

made the same comment in 2016?

[cherryinpa]

4. Wasnt running for President

Big difference in final year of office vs election year.

No?

[TwilightZone]

16. Not the same and certainly not when considered in context.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=578640

[Gothmog]

19. No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's

Link to tweet

Eric Levitz in New York Magazine on Monday makes the case that Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview admiring some aspects of Fidel Castro’s regime in Cuba was roughly the same as Barack Obama’s 2016 discussion of Castro. This is in large part just an amplification of ideas flying around Twitter this week, as in the tweet pictured above. A quick look at Sanders’ and Obama’s statements shows why this analysis is entirely incorrect.

In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making — as he puts it “be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works.” He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.

In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other country’s support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.

In contrast, Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, “As a socialist, the word socialism doesn’t frighten me,” before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of today’s presidential candidate’s innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obama’s messaging on this topic would have undergone....

From this brief look, we can see that Obama’s talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders’ words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders’ own sentiment.

[Gothmog]

20. you can always count on @JoeBiden to defend @BarackObama 's record and legacy.

Link to tweet

[Cha]

22. President Obama didn't.. so No.. there's no "wondering"..

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated
pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the gradual process of moving towards normalization.

President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287576570

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Mahalo for the additional tweet, Goth!

[DanTex]

6. It only "needed to be said" because the media is digging up old clips to smear Bernie with.

Bernie isn't going around campaigning about Castro. He was asked to clarify his comments, and he did, in pretty much the same words as Obama used to talk about Cuba and Castro. He criticized the authoritarianism, and praised the education system, just like Obama.

[redstateblues]

9. Smearing Bernie with his own words.

There’s lots out there. Buckle up

[Cha]

23. No kidding!

[mr_lebowski]

2. Indeed ... he makes unforced errors at a rate exceeding even Biden ...

Without the warmth and general affable nature of Joe.

And they're often the sort that are going to 'stick'.

It's concerning, no doubt.

[HopeAgain]

10. At least he doesn't "misremember"

Being arrested in other countries...

[mr_lebowski]

12. Touche ... but I could bring up 'at least Biden hasn't done XYZ' wrt Bernie ...

Until the cows come home as well, so ... there's that.

The totality of situation is that I've been suggesting I fear we have 0 Democrats in the race presently who will beat Trump for about a year now.

I've seen nothing in that year to disabuse me of that fear.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

14. "I'm not Trump" isn't a winning strategy

A lot can happen between now and November. It's 50/50 on the economy at this point, as near as I can figure.

I'm not sure I completely agree we don't have the right guy / gal, but I think all of them are running (to greater/lesser degrees) dumb campaigns right now. They all need to get sharper in their attacks and better about addressing voter needs/wants.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Bernie "should not get into high concept political history."

Compared to Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot Castro was a piker. The former were responsible for tens of millions of deaths. Castro's death toll is in the hundreds or thousands. That's not a point I'd like to make in a general election.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

8. I'll go a step further. I think many of the early excesses of the regime..

...were driven more by Che Guevarra than by Fidel. Was Castro's Cuba worse than the Argentine junta of the mid 70s, or Stroessner's Paraguay, or Somoza? Nope.

That said, it's a topic I'd have deflected from as quickly as possible.

[womanofthehills]

18. If you compared Castro to the rest of the South American dictators

As far as dictators go, they were worse than Castro.

[booley]

7. Bloomberg never needed justification to run third party

He did it so he could stay New York mayor. Bloomberg does what is best for Bloomberg and retroactively justifies it later.

[cannabis_flower]

11. Most of the problem with this is

That Bernie has talked about Castro in the past and people are asking about it. And then he has to answer and he's taken out of context. So basically, he's damned if he answers and damned if he doesn't. At least he's authentic and doesn't lie. What would lying get him anyway. There's plenty of his writings and video.

[Algernon Moncrieff]

13. I'd immediately deflect

"Whats far more important are the comments you folks in media ignore that Donald Trump has made praisung the murderous, ex KGB thug Vladimir Putin."

Whenever he is asked about some dumbass comment he made about Fidel Castro, he should be reflexively turning the discussion to Trump/Putin/Muller Investigation/Impeachment. Just like Joe should be ripping Jarvanka any time he is asked about Hunter.

[TwilightZone]

15. "were voting Trump anyway. "

Not really true anymore. The community has been trending left and was about 55/45 in 2018.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-cuban-american-poll-20190131-story.html

[Algernon Moncrieff]

17. I did not mean the Cuban community generally

I meant the stridently anti-communist 1st Gens (both 1st wave and Mariel). The 2nd/3rd/4th gens tend, in my experience, to favor normalization and ending the embargo.

[Awsi Dooger]

24. I live in South Florida and it's not close to correct

I could never talk politics to Hispanics until 2012. It was amazing how many Cubans supported Obama and now were seeing Democrats in a favorable light.

But all of that changes once you feed anything pro-Castro into a household. Often the Cuban homes will have 3 generations living under the same room, or if not together then nearby and extremely tight. The old wounds are opened up again.

There's a reason Annette Taddeo and other Democratic candidates around here don't want anything to do with Bernie Sanders atop the ticket. They know the math. Andrew Gillum was easily tagged a socialist 2 years ago. Now you've got self-proclaimed.

Every day I want to believe I am imagining this.

[Gothmog]

21. The sanders talking point on President Obama is simply false

Link to tweet