Amid Right-Wing Effort to Smear Sanders Over Cuba Comments, Campaign Issues Reminder That Obama Said

[OliverQ]

The Same Thing

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/02/24/amid-right-wing-effort-smear-sanders-over-cuba-comments-campaign-issues-reminder

[questionseverything]

1. perfect

Sanders campaign organizers and other progressives, however, pointed out that the senator's remarks couldn't have been particularly radical—as they echoed comments made by former President Barack Obama when he was in office.
Sanders' speechwriter, David Sirota, tweeted a video of the former president saying in 2016 that the Cuban government had "made great progress in educating young people" and praising its healthcare system.
"Every child in Cuba gets a basic education," Obama said. "Life expectancy of Cubans is equivalent to that in the United States because they have access to healthcare."

[HerbChestnut]

2. Gee, what a surprise.

[SidDithers]

3. Whataboutism. Standard response...nt

Sid

[HerbChestnut]

4. It's about calling out hypocricy.

[thesquanderer]

8. It's not really whataboutism...

or at least the way I typically see it. Typical whataboutism is when, to deflect from something BAD about you, you point out a similar BAD thing about someone on the other side.

In this case, it's not a deflection from badness, rather it's saying, hey, this wasn't bad at all, it was actually GOOD. As evidenced by the same behavior from someone from whom you would see it as good.

So instead of, "stop looking at me, HE'S at least as bad" it's "look at me, I'm as good as THAT guy!" And in the end, instead of seeing anyone as bad, you're supposed to see everyone as good.

[Downtown Hound]

11. Consistency matters. As does calling out selective outrage. n/t

[TwilightZone]

5. Only if one ignores most of the comments plus the context.

So, I could see how Common Dreams could come to that conclusion since that's often their MO.

[LaurenOlimina]

6. Again... moral panic races ahead of reality where Sanders is concerned.

[corbettkroehler]

22. And Yet

Link to tweet

[Voltaire2]

7. It is different if Obama says it.

Because you know, he's not Voldemort.

[denverbill]

9. Waiting to see if Biden denounces Obama's remarks.

Of course, I fully supported Obama's opening up relations with Cuba. Sad that DU has become a hot-bed of anti-Castro Cubans.

[lapucelle]

10. President Obama did not say the same thing.

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the course of the process on the path to normalization.

President Obama made the remarks at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.

US presidential visit

President Obama arrived in Cuba for a three-day visit on March 20, 2016. Obama headed a delegation of between 800 and 1,200, including business people and congressional leaders who had helped in establishing the 2014 normalization deal.

Obama was the first sitting U.S. president to visit Cuba since Calvin Coolidge in 1928. Obama said that he would only visit Cuba if he could meet with Cuban dissidents: "If I go on a visit, then part of the deal is that I get to talk to everybody. I've made it very clear in my conversations directly with President Raúl Castro that we would continue to reach out to those who want to broaden the scope for, you know, free expression inside of Cuba."

********************************************************************************************

David Sirota used an abruptly edited short clip in order mislead people. Here's the context that Sirota failed to provide. It's not the first time

Remarks by President Obama and President Raul Castro of Cuba in a Joint Press Conference

Palace of the Revolution
Havana, Cuba
March 21, 2016

Our growing engagement with Cuba is guided by one overarching goal -- advancing the mutual interests of our two countries, including improving the lives of our people, both Cubans and Americans. That’s why I’m here.

I’ve said consistently, after more than five very difficult decades, the relationship between our governments will not be transformed overnight. We continue, as President Castro indicated, to have some very serious differences, including on democracy and human rights. And President Castro and I have had very frank and candid conversations on these subjects.

The United States recognizes progress that Cuba has made as a nation, its enormous achievements in education and in health care. And perhaps most importantly, I affirmed that Cuba’s destiny will not be decided by the United States or any other nation. Cuba is sovereign and, rightly, has great pride. And the future of Cuba will be decided by Cubans, not by anybody else.

At the same time, as we do wherever we go around the world, I made it clear that the United States will continue to speak up on behalf of democracy, including the right of the Cuban people to decide their own future. We’ll speak out on behalf of universal human rights, including freedom of speech, and assembly, and religion. Indeed, I look forward to meeting with and hearing from Cuban civil society leaders tomorrow.

https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/the-press-office/2016/03/21/remarks-president-obama-and-president-raul-castro-cuba-joint-press%20


A photo of David tending a sick child.

[Moderateguy]

12. I hope someone calls out the Sanders Campaign for this crap...

They are totally two different contexts.

[uponit7771]

13. Bullshit false equivalency !!! Obama praised the baby in the bath water Sanders praised father of

.... the baby!!!

Castro was a dictator

[lapucelle]

15. David Sirota is misleading people again.

BS was talking about what he thinks Castro's revolution brought to Cuba in 1959.

President Obama was talking about the post 2014 strides that Cuba had made as part of the negotiated pre-conditions for normalizing US-Cuba relations. Cuba had to meet benchmarks during the course of the process on the path to normalization.

President Obama made the remarks to at a joint press conference in Cuba in March 2016.

[uponit7771]

16. +1

[George II]

19. As they say, context is everything. Thanks for the refreshing dose of reality.

[George II]

14. Except that Obama DIDN'T say the same thing. And many of those who have raised this issue....

...in recent days have been DEMOCRATIC office-holders, indeed some Democratic members of Congress. Are you implying they're all engaging in a "right-wing" smear campaign?

Is DEMOCRATIC State Senator Annette Taddeo "right-wing"?

Link to tweet

Is DEMOCRATIC Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy "right-wing"?

Link to tweet

Is DEMOCRATIC Congresswoman Debbie Mucarsel-Powell "right-wing"?

Link to tweet

[lapucelle]

17. Please read post #10.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287575728#post10

[George II]

18. Thank you very much!

[David__77]

20. I liked Obama's comment and moving past Cold War diplomacy freeze.

...

[Gothmog]

21. No, Bernie Sanders' Discussion of Cuba's Castro is Nothing Like Obama's

Link to tweet

Eric Levitz in New York Magazine on Monday makes the case that Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview admiring some aspects of Fidel Castro’s regime in Cuba was roughly the same as Barack Obama’s 2016 discussion of Castro. This is in large part just an amplification of ideas flying around Twitter this week, as in the tweet pictured above. A quick look at Sanders’ and Obama’s statements shows why this analysis is entirely incorrect.

In 2016, Obama was addressing hundreds of young business and social entrepreneurs from across Latin America in Buenos Aires, Argentina. If you read the transcript of his talk, you see immediately that Obama, in his signature style, was reinforcing the message of pragmatism and evidence-based decision making — as he puts it “be[ing] practical and just choos[ing] from what works.” He was in fact arguing against ideology, at a time when he must have been watching the destabilizing effects the surge in ideological politics was causing not just in the United States but in other countries long considered staid and practical.

In discussing Cuba, Obama relayed direct conversations he had with the Castros, insight into the diplomacy of highlighting policy areas where there might be more agreement in order to create common ground with space to push for change in other areas. I doubt many would think it rational to approach a nascent foreign relationship with a guns blazing, take no prisoners attitude, especially when any agreement depended on the other country’s support. Obama was relaying one relatively high stakes conversation with foreign leaders to another unaligned audience in a foreign venue. I expect it does not take an expert in international relations to see the U.S. interest in pitching this information a certain way for both of these audiences.

In contrast, Bernie Sanders’ 1985 interview was not conducted for foreign consumption or to support U.S. national interests, and it did not come at a time of opening up in the U.S.-Cuba relationship. Instead, it was given for a local public access TV show. It was effectively a vanity project giving Sanders a platform to expound his views of politics and the world. Because of this, the messaging here is all Sanders. Further contrasting Obama, it was rooted in ideology, with Sanders opening, “As a socialist, the word socialism doesn’t frighten me,” before launching into his discussion of self-described socialist regimes. While you could argue the interview might not be a perfect snapshot of today’s presidential candidate’s innermost thoughts, it was a clear statement of what Sanders believed at the time and unfiltered by the degree of drafting and review Obama’s messaging on this topic would have undergone....

From this brief look, we can see that Obama’s talk involved a little flattery, a little spin, and a good deal of appealing to an audience that he saw as future leaders. In contrast, Sanders’ words were simply praise without an intentional objective towards a defined audience. Conflating these two discussions is flimsy, misleading, and indicative of the pro-regime propaganda captured in Sanders’ own sentiment.