"Bernie is an extremely divisive figure in our party."

[Stuart G]

Is this true? Yes, We see this right here and right now.

NanceGreggs said this in this post.(2nd sentence after Original Post, look it up if you want) at link:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=570879

If this is true, then forget Bernie. Why? The last thing we need is to be divided. and Yes, Bernie does divide us. If you think that is a lie, look at this forum, and what has been said for and against Bernie. Being divided, insures Trumps reelection. Why? That is exactly what Trump wants: A divided Democratic Party. Throw in an independent candidate, and Trump gets 4 more years. Guaranteed.

If you don't believe this "division", than read as many of the posts in this forum as you can. For and against Bernie Sanders. You will see a hot divide between those for and against Bernie.

The very last thing we need is a division in our party. That only benefits Donald Trump and the Republicans. If you don't see that divide right here, then you haven't been reading. OH..TWO MORE IDEAS....

1 THIS DIVIDE IS THE TRUTH,

2. THIS DIVISION WILL DESTROY OUR CHANCES TO WIN IN NOVEMBER.

..........OK....have at it, if you think this is wrong or want to argue.

[polichick]

1. The primaries are what they are - a FIGHT for the nomination...

And this time people are fighting for the continuation of their country and their planet - not just for their party to be in power. We’re way overdue for a paradigm shift and young people get that in a big way.

[rzemanfl]

2. Ageed, but I cannot quantify it, which seems to be thing for certain folks here

who would disagree. Wait, I can quantify it for myself at least, One hundred fucking percent.

[Downtown Hound]

3. The message seems to be

If you like Bernie, but he doesn't win, you should vote blue no matter who (a sentiment I support).

But if he does win, he should knock it off and so should those who support him, because it's causing division.

Did I miss anything?

[Stuart G]

5. I will vote for our nominee, no matter who it is. And send money too. We need to win!

[Downtown Hound]

9. Well then, accept that he has a message that appeals to lots of voters

Last edited Mon Feb 24, 2020, 06:42 PM - Edit history (1)

And if he's winning, maybe try and understand why instead of complaining about the division its causing.

[tecelote]

30. +1!

[TwilightZone]

4. But, he's the ultimate unity candidate!

That's what Sanders supporters keep telling everyone.

[Downtown Hound]

7. But it's Bernie's fault that you won't get behind him?

No doubt after probably telling bernie supporters to do the same to Clinton, Biden, and all the rest?

[TwilightZone]

16. Nope.

I don't have a dog in the fight outside of a belief that Sanders is probably least likely to win in November. I'll vote for him, but would prefer any of the other non-Bloomberg candidates, but I think Sanders fans are in for a bit of a shock when the real shit starts to hit the fan. Some have been trying to warn them, but the blinders are pretty clearly on.

Pretty sure I've never told anyone to fall in line behind *anyone* during the primary process in my forty years of political activity until the process was clearly over. This one is not over, contrary to what you or others assert.

Are you hiding behind a Biden preference?

[Downtown Hound]

26. Nope. Biden actually is my preference

Followed by Bernie.

[ramen]

29. I don't get why people's candidate preferences are questioned as dishonest.

Is that something people are doing here? Does anyone know why, if so? It would be a strange thing to lie about and a strange place to do it.

[peggysue2]

14. Yeah, he's the unity candidate

Like I'm the Second Coming of Marilyn Monroe. But hey, we all have our fantasies. And btw, repeating the lie (oops fantasy) doesn't make it true. The Senator from Vermont's own history underscores his divisive nature. Add in the inconvenient truth that he's a Democrat of pure convenience, someone who never misses a chance to slam the Democratic Party, and his divisiveness is a given, the elephant in the room that not even the most ardent supporter can disguise.

[MisterFred]

40. Actually, no.

We may think he's the best for the Dems in the national election, but I wouldn't say he's the unity candidate.

I'd give that title to Warren. I think she's the least divisive. Less than, say, Biden. Or Buttigeig.

[uponit7771]

6. K&R, Sanders has no historical swing state appeal outside of MOE, Biden has the most

[backtoblue]

8. Stronger together nt

[Walleye]

10. Try to imagine if Bernie weren't running,

Would the rest of the candidates and supporters be this hostile toward each other?

[Stuart G]

12. Not as hostile as with Bernie running. No. certainly not this hostile.

And I might add this, Trumps & his crowd desire this hostility in us. Helps Trump to win.

Part of that hostility is ....guess who?...Bernie himself, his personality and demeanor

[peggysue2]

15. Bingo!

[2naSalit]

57. +1

[TwilightZone]

19. None of the other candidates have spent decades denigrating the party.

And are still doing it today.

If you're looking for the reason for the divisiveness, you might be looking in the wrong direction. There's plenty of blame to go around, but it starts with Sanders and his staff.

[Basic LA]

28. Exactly!

If he doesn't hate Dems, then why isn't he one? What's his beef?

[MisterFred]

41. Yes. If Obama v Clinton is any indication. I'd say the candidates this year are less hostile. nt

[Skittles]

49. nope

he did not learn from 2016

[Happy Hoosier]

11. Absolutely.

I've never actively disliked a potential nominee before. But I do now.

I will still vote for him if it comes to that, but I think we will bleed support.

[DanTex]

13. He's divisive *on DU*, not "in our party." DU is not the Democratic Party.

Every primary has been divisive *on DU*. Why? Because we are political junkies who like to argue about stuff. There were big arguments in 2016. There were big arguments in 2008. There are arguments all the time.

Among the Democratic electorate, Bernie is not divisive. In fact, he is the least divisive of the candidates running. He has the highest approval rating among Dems of all of them. When Dem voters are polled as to which candidates they'd be satisfied with as nominee, Bernie polls on top.

[TwilightZone]

18. Nah, he's divisive in the party, as well.

He's spent decades railing against it and claiming both sides are bad. You think that's not divisive?

That's laughable.

[DanTex]

20. Is there any evidence of that? Because the polls don't show that at all.

[beastie boy]

22. The polls show exactly that. The democratic Party is split in half.

Tell me Bernie has nothing to do with it.

[Stuart G]

23. Is this sentence true? "He's spent decades railing against it and claiming both sides are bad."

If the above sentence is true, then forget Bernie, he is now in the process of destroying our chances.

If the original sentence is not true, prove that that the original post is true. That Bernie did not rally against both sides.

If you cannot prove that Bernie did not rally against both sides, then you are lying about this, when you say that Bernie will "unify us."

[NurseJackie]

24. Everything he's said about the Democratic party IS WRONG. Where's the apology and retraction?

Everything he's said about the Democratic party IS WRONG. Where's the apology and retraction?

It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "ideologically bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats are "intellectually bankrupt". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "feeble". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "corrupt". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is an "absolute failure". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is "the party of the one-percent". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party is the "party of the elite". It's NOT TRUE that there's "no difference between Democrats and Republicans." It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats "are the same as the GOP". It's NOT TRUE that Democrats are "do-nothings". It's NOT TRUE that the Democratic party "doesn't care about climate change." It's NOT TRUE that the Democrats "focus too much" on diversity. It's also NOT TRUE that people who the refuse to vote for an African-American because of his skin color "aren't racists". It's also NOT TRUE that the Democrats who "are very big into diversity" aren't "particularly sympathetic" to the working class.

This is the type of negativity that DOES divide the party. I creates anger, distrust, resentment, suspicion... and that weakens us. A divided party is a weak party. What good purpose does it serve to attack Democrats and the Democratic party?

All I'm trying to say is that this is the cause of so much negativity. Negativity generates apathy. Apathy discourages voter turnout. Low voter turnout gives Republicans a chance to steal the elections.

[kentuck]

17. But, by God, the GOP will not be divided !

No matter what.

[MisterFred]

43. Same as us. The ones who show up will be united. The ones who show up. nt

[beastie boy]

21. If he is this divisive in the primaries, imagine it magnified manyfold in the general.

Even if every Democrat and Bernie supporter votes for him, it will not be enough to get Wisconsin, Pennsylvania or Michigan back. Never mind Florida. And bernie is not even up to the task to unite the Democratic Party.

Barring the economy tanking, Trump going completely insane or hell freezing over, this is the reason Bernie will never win the Presidency. Not the Democratic Establishment his surrogates malign at every opportunity.

[Gothmog]

25. Florida Democratic Party disavows Sanders.

Link to tweet

[doxyluv13]

27. Democratic Underground is not a microcosm of the Democratic electorate.

Just look at the percentages of who the members support in the primaries.

Also, please note The Hill polls, posted elsewhere, shows the broad Democratic electorate seen Sanders as strongest.

[Perseus]

31. Nope, people who write stuff like this post are more divisive

I wish it would stop but I feel there is some force out there that is helping with the division.

[elleng]

34. EXACTLY, there is some force out there that is helping with the division.

there is some force out there that is helping with the division,

and MANY here are complicit.

[Skittles]

51. there's really no force needed

[Mountain Mule]

32. I have had it up to here with all this mindless gloom and doom

If Bernie does end up as the Democratic nominee and if we then end up losing to Trump, it will be the fault of our good party “moderates “ as much as anything else. Posts like this one and all the other ones like it on this forum are NOT going to sway the Bernie supporters among those of us here as well as Democrats in general. All these tirades only serve the purpose of alienating our own when we most desperately need to be united. Please, my fellow moderates, get a grip.

[mgcgulfcoast]

37. Well said

All the so-called moderates are doing is to drive a wedge between them and the one group of hard core determined voters.

[Stuart G]

38. Those of us who post these ideas are "not alienating our own." Bernie is alienating our own.

..And it is not "mindless gloom and doom." Is it true that Bernie has attacked the Democratic Party? Yes or No? Is it true that Bernie has a history of doing so? Yes or No?. Is it true that if Bernie is our nominee, that many will be offended by "his history of putting down the party? Yes or No? What is the truth? Does Bernie divide or bring us together?
...What is Bernie's personality like? A unifier or a divider? No one is alienating our own here. Those in favor of Bernie, and those not in favor of Bernie exist everywhere. My views will not keep anyone here from voting in the November election. Almost all here, in this forum, who are members of DU, will vote for whoever candidate we nominate. I certainly will.
...What is the question about Bernie is, what about others out there who are not at DU believe? Will they too be offended by Bernie? Have those out there already been offended by Bernie? If so, how many out there? You don't know, and I don't know, but I believe lots of people are offended.."out there"

....And also, this is not a "get a grip" discussion. This is what could happen in the next few months. Bernie's personality is one of "us or them." Is that true or false? He tends to divide in my opinion. That is my opinion, and the opinion of some others here in this post and others too. And those opinions are not mindless gloom and doom.

[McKim]

39. Excellent Post

Excellent post. We should be focusing on what our Democratic Party can do help Americans live better. Stop with the attacks. As a Warren and Sanders supporter I am seriously considering leaving DU because of all the attacks which are relentless here. I have a right to my opinions. These two candidates are the best I have seen in 50 years. As an older boomer I want a better world for young people. Let’s stop the attacks and not do the Republican Party’s work for it!

[Turin_C3PO]

44. Don't leave DU.

It’ll settle down here once we get a clear nominee.

[yellowwoodII]

33. If the party is divided...

Why blame Bernie? Blame the stick in the mud "moderates" who are satisfied with the status quo. If you don't stand for something, then you'll fall for anything.
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=if+you+don%27t+stand+for+something+song&view=detail&mid=E0BBCE34D9B878882027E0BBCE34D9B878882027&FORM=VIRE

[mgcgulfcoast]

36. Well said.

[mgcgulfcoast]

35. How is Sanders divisive?

I would like anyone to explain differences between Sanders and Obama. And lets be clear. Democrats in 2012 would have adopted the basic Sanders plan had they had the votes for universal healthcare. The mess in healthcare came about because we didnt go all the way. We adopted a bunch of bandaids and compromises to get votes for a plan.

[Mountain Mule]

42. We must all hang together

Or we will all hang separately. - Benjamin Franklin

[Stuart G]

48. ..I know you don't feel it, but I do. Obama felt like he was moderate with his talk and personality,

Bernie's personality is to divide. McGovern divided, and Bernie does the same. Obama unified and so does Biden. It is a deep personality and history thing. Because McGovern was so strong on issues that I felt were absolutely important, I did not look at his divisive personality.
..It is exactly the same with Bernie. Many are so in favor of his issues, and what he believes in (which is fine with me) that many do not see that Bernie's presentation has been dividing. Don't agree, that is ok. But it is, and always will be, and has been. (at least in my opinion, I will add that)

[Gothmog]

45. Biden campaign response to sanders praising Fidel Castro

Link to tweet

[ehrnst]

46. K&R

[Mountain Mule]

50. Could not agree more!

Well put.

[IronLionZion]

52. So divisive that he keeps winning primaries

Someone must be voting for him

My coworkers feel that he is the Trump of the left, in the most deliciously wonderful ways that help workers over wealthy. So we're planning to go to his rally Saturday.

May I offer up my candidate, Elizabeth Warren, as an alternative with very liberal policies but much less divisiveness. She could be a very good choice for lefties who don't like Bernie and/or may prefer to shatter the glass ceiling for women also.

[Nanjeanne]

53. I don't find him divisive at all. I find him optimistic and uplifting. But I'm not holding on to

2016 and I'm looking forward to getting rid of Trump. Can't speak for others.

[Stuart G]

54. I am also looking forward to getting rid of Trump, & will vote and send money to our nominee.

Whether that nominee is Bernie, Elizabeth, Joe, or someone else. I hate Trump, he stands for nothing that I stand for.

[Kurt V.]

55. I'm not angry bc this is the way its always been for us progressives but

after having the backs of moderates for decades is it too much to ask to have our back this time?

[David__77]

61. I get your point.

It’s a big tent and a person of the left/center/right wins out.

[Cozmo]

56. Let's not forget Bernie's actions in 2016

He's in it for himself! His refusal to endorse Hillary until the 11th hour helped to jeopardize our chances 4 years ago. He's a big blowhard in my book and yeah, I'll vote for him if he's our candidate in 2020 but it will be a wasted vote and you can bank on 4 more years of horror if he wins the nomination.

[YOHABLO]

58. These forums only represent a microcosm of the electorate.

''throw in and independent candidate''? 38% of Americans identify as an independent voter. Sanders happens to be an independent Congressman, who is running as a Democrat. Works for me. Fear not.

[The Wizard]

59. Primaries are divisive by nature

As the sage Bill Clinton once said: "You fall in love in the primaries and fall in line for the general."

[lunasun]

60. Why aren't the more moderate candidates unified? If they all backed Biden wouldn't that make it

easier to oppose Sanders?
They seem divided and take digs at each other sometimes .
If the party is not divided without the Sanders factor and really want to beat him at the polls then they need to have one candidate appeal as an alternative
Some may need to drop if they do not want to be part of the division unless only Sanders is seen as the divider
Could the party ask some to drop now before STues? Why are not Amy or Pete seen as divisive for the election?
My guess is they will back off Bloomberg inserting himself since $$$. So there would be division right there if he keeps going up against Biden even if the others agree to drop out now

You can’t put it all on Sanders for doing a great job and raising funds and winning in the crowded field . He is not evil he just is getting more votes than other candidates
and of course in a primary the votes will be divided among the candidates running that’s how it is

Warren Sanders Biden my top three and I do not care as long as trump is out

but I was traveling across country today and I got handed a USA Today
I would never read it but I was in a work hold somewhere
On the front page is -Dems in bind over Sanders .
Then you go to page 3 and they cite a cbs news poll that the highest percentage of all voters think Sanders could win and their poll showed him as most likely to beat trump
However the poll showed Biden right behind him in both numbers
63% said their minds are made up no matter who the dem nominee is
and 60% will not change no matter what trump does before the election
which is the scariest number !
So overall Trump is strong and it’s basically a coin toss with any dem
it will not be a cake walk no matter who goes against trump imo
but to say Sanders divides but all the other candidates do not how does that work ?

If it’s by ideology then the divided moderate wing of the party should come together in unity and pick one alternative not a handful imo
The people screaming division better get together soon instead of pointing fingers
Sanders seems to be their enemy as much as trump
Oh and he is to big $$$$ sector that is for sure and much more than trump

So is it division by class in the dem party too? I that is part of it maybe
An example would be
Healthcare in most other countries is accepted but on DU I see it referred to as free stuff
I look at South Korea a country where we helped protect their border since 1977 they have had it and ranked one of the worlds best in healthcare