Please tell me why I shouldn't be offended.

[louis c]

I have supported with time, energy and money every Democratic candidate for President since George McGovern.

I donated $1,000 to the Obama campaign after the primary and before the General Election in 2008 and another $1,000 to Hillary in 2016.

I am a 66 year old, white married guy with a 63 year old wife. We have no kids and are fairly well off (thanks to unions).

So, I have supported a young, black guy and a white woman. I was proud to support both of them, because I have been a Democrat all of my life.

But, when I read here, or hear out in the political gatherings, that people don't want to vote for Biden in the Democratic Primary because he's an "old, white guy", tell me, as a life long Democrat and an old white guy, why I shouldn't be offended?

I nearly had fist fights with relatives and friends who told me they couldn't vote for Obama because he was black, and later, Hillary because she was a woman. I placed my heart and soul into both of those campaigns, supporting Hillary in the primary in 2008 and 2016 and Barack in between.

Now, I hear Democrats tell me that "they are sick and tired of old white guys" running for President.

Please explain the difference to me between a person saying that they can't vote for an old white guy, or they can't vote for a black guy or a woman.

[LakeArenal]

1. I see no difference.

[elleng]

2. I guess you/we have the 'right' to be offended,

but I'd rather ignore it and hope they'll think better of the error of their ways.

[Hortensis]

110. My thought until I thought. Maybe we should make those inclined

whisper and insinuate ageism and eagerness to discriminate to those of like mind, instead of allowing that bigotry to be trumpeted everywhere. Just like bigotry based on skin color.

When I thought about it I realized the OP is saying just accepting it is not being socially responsible or standing up for equality and civil rights.

Look at Nancy Pelosi. She is ONE out of 12 leaders in the two parties, most of whom are aged, but she is the only woman and the only one pushed into agreeing to term-limit herself. The rampant bigotry expressed across the nation and right here against her as a woman and as an older person, trying to use age to take the woman out, was despicable.

In "the Year of the Women," yet. The hypocrisy, and the bigotry, were enormous.

[LakeArenal]

3. Especially since Joe is the most qualified both nationally and globally.

The world wants and needs Joe Biden.

[pnwmom]

29. I don't think being a former Vice President makes him more qualified

than my Governor, Jay Inslee, for example.

Jay Inslee has a much more solid progressive record, while still managing to help turn my formerly purple state blue. (When he was elected, one of the houses in the legislature went red. After a term of Jay Inslee, they're both blue.)

Over his long years of experience, Biden has unfortunately acquired a lot of baggage. His position on school bussing. His record on bankruptcy and other banking bills (that are still hurting people who can't get out from under student loans in bankruptcy -- but they can get released from any amount of credit card bills.) His votes on some abortion bills. His mishandling of the Anita Hill hearings, which were a disgrace. And yes, what is called his "old school" touchy-feelyness. (Though Bernie's not touchy feely and he's about the same age.)

[plimsoll]

50. Have to agree.

I don't think he's "the most qualified." I think he's qualified, and frankly that is the difference. Cheney was VP too; we saw the value of "qualifications."

As to the initial question, there is a difference and I think it's this: we are currently subjected to a president* whose only real qualification is that he's an old white guy who pisses off liberals. If you ignore the last part, Trump has done more than any person to dispel the notion of “white supremacy”, and provided proof that growing old is mandatory but growing up is optional. Still it’s easy to ignore that last part.

Trump pisses liberals off for a number of reasons: the bigotry, the boastfulness, the constant attacks on common decency, and more things than we have time to enumerate. That said let’s be honest, the two things that irritate liberals the most are the constant counterfactual claims and the obvious and glaring incompetence.

So while it’s unfair and I would hope that people of good faith can acknowledge that fact, we must ask ourselves why “Old white guy” can’t reasonably be equated with “bigoted numbskull” in modern America.

(* Apparently a member of the bigoted numbskull demographic. *)

[LakeArenal]

51. He's the most qualified.

Nationally and globally.

The world wants Joe 2020

[plimsoll]

54. From a pure logic perspective.

You can't defend that position.

And I think you should take a breath. Joe is qualified, no question, but other things matter and we can disagree about "most" forever.

I'll ask you the question that I've started asking Bernie fans. Are you going to go sulk and vote for a protest candidate if you don't get your way?

[LakeArenal]

67. I surely can defend my position.

His experience and history.
But you aren’t interested in it. You just want to argue logic and parse words. Framing disagreement as pouting.

I’ve expressed the answer to your question several times on DU. Personally, I don't care if you know my position on it anyway.

[plimsoll]

70. Good bye.

[paleotn]

157. The man was in the Senate longer

than many Dem voters have been alive. He’s not perfect. NONE are. But of the current crop, he knows his way around the federal government better than anyone except Bernie. You’re last sentence is a total non-sequiter a la 2016.

[plimsoll]

165. He's qualified no doubt.

I take issue with the "most" statement. I'm not seeking perfection because as you point out, none are.

I'll also point out that it's a mistake to equate tenure with capability. There is a difference between 20 years of experience and 1 year of experience 20 times. I'm not saying Biden suffers from that problem, but it is a real phenomenon.

Non-sequiter in that it didn't happen in 2016? Non-sequiter because it can't happen now? We're already seeing the rhetorical positions hardening and the primaries are almost a year out. Backing away from an entrenched position isn't a problem solely for the right. That concern for our ability to compromise is nearly identical to concerns that Obama raised yesterday, though his were directed at Democratic progressives. The basic issue remains the same, are we individually prepared to say I won't get %100 of what I want, but X is closer to my objectives than anything being offered by the GOP. I think the purity concerns for progressives are legitimate, but I'm not convinced the more moderate side of the party doesn't have the same problem.

[pnwmom]

57. The world didn't know it would want Obama till he become President.

The world could also fall in love with Julian Castro, Jay Inslee, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, or others.

[LakeArenal]

68. Who said anyone isn't falling in love with the other candidates

And still support Biden.

All of it,but a vote in the primary, is mutually inclusive.

[redstateblues]

79. I like Inslee. I don't think he has a chance to win. I wouldn't send him money.

He’d be a great Interior Sec or Head of the EPA

[plimsoll]

113. I'll admit to some parochial attachment.

But on the whole I agree with you. I don't think he can win, but without the national visibility he won't be offered jobs like the ones you mention.

This whole thread is a little disturbing though; it’s a complaint against age and race based biases coming from the group who have historically been the beneficiaries of age and race bias. I don’t like falling into that “old white guy” demographic or the “bigoted numbskull” synonym dear leader has turned that into, but the basis of this thread is a half a step away from “conservatives are the real victims” storyline we see from right.

So, I like Jay. I will give him money, as I have since 1992, but I’m not going to feel offended because people are pointing out that Jay, Joe Biden and I are members of the demographic that has run the country for 230 years. It’s a fact, how we choose to acknowledge that fact and deal with other combinations of our individual identities will set us apart.

[FM123]

126. Wow, Inslee as head of the Environmental Protection Agency - yes, he would be great at that!

We have so many great Dems running and obviously only one can be our candidate for the general - but for all the others, they are so smart and talented I would not be surprised if they ended up in key positions after the election (which we will win).

[Qutzupalotl]

141. I partly disagree. I do think Inslee can win.

His interviews are fantastic. He is articulate, sharp, passionate and persuasive. I think he will do well at the debates. I would have no problem at all switching my support him. He could dance rings around Trump in the general, and is far more likable.

Edited to add: I like most of our candidates.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

52. Between Inslee and Biden? No question... Inslee is more qualified and has no baggage.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[redstateblues]

78. Hey Bernie-Tax returns please. Stop playing the "run out the clock" strategy that has worked for

Other candidates

[GemDigger]

71. His connections on the international scale.

He won't have to depend on introductions and get right down to the nitty gritty of assuring our allies that they can trust us again and that we have your backs and do it QUICK.

It doesn't matter who gets in if they can't fix the geopolitical disaster there will be no hope for us. If this were any other time in our history it would not be such a big deal but trump has screwed our trust-ability for decades to come. It's his immediate ability to do something internationally.

Vice President Biden: 8 years, 57 Countries, 6 Powerful Travel Memories

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/travel/features/vice-president-biden-travel-memories/

[pnwmom]

72. Neither Obama nor Biden had those connections before Obama's Presidency

but they managed -- and the world was in the midst of a huge financial disaster.

But you have just made a good argument for Mayor Pete, because he does speak 7 other languages and has experience in the military.

[GemDigger]

73. We weren't in turmoil then. We are now. Joe already KNOWS them.

We don't have time for meet n greets and talk about the weather. We need to sit down with international leaders who already KNOW and TRUST Joe.

Any other time in history this would be a radically different story. But trump gave us this international shitshow we are in now and it needs to be someone who can step in on day 1. Literally. Joe can pick up the phone and talk to other world leaders that he has already had experience with without all the usual formalities that a new administration usually goes through.

I am not saying the others are incapable... I am just saying that these are not normal times.

[pnwmom]

75. Yes, we WERE in turmoil in 2008. We were on the edge of a second worldwide Great Depression.

We were in the midst of an international banking catastrophe. People don't realize what a crisis that was because Obama was SUCCESSFUL, despite all the obstruction from Congress.

[GemDigger]

84. I am not talking the stuff of 2008 I am talking the specific damage tump has done between

2016 and 2019. The problems of 2008 and 2019 are no way similar.

Because of Trump...Germany trusted us then, they do not now. France trusted us then, they do not now. Mexico trusted us then, they do not now. Canada trusted us then, they do not now. The UK trusted us then, they do not now. Nato trusted us then, they do not now.

Everyone who is not Russia, China, NK or Saudi Arabia trusted us then. Russia, China, NK and Saudi Arabia are the ONLY country that trusts us now.

[pnwmom]

88. Biden is NOT the only Democrat the world would welcome. We have several

others who will make themselves known on the world stage during the primaries. And whoever wins will make connections during the general, just like Obama did.

They could well feel more confident with a leader who is younger and has more of a chance of making it through two terms.

[GemDigger]

89. I cannot explain myself any better.

[GemDigger]

85. What we were not in 2008 was close to the possibility of a nutjob getting us into WW III

[nsd]

169. Obama didn't have foreign connections, but Biden did.

Biden was chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee. Leaders and officials in other countries knew him before he joined Obama's ticket. That was part of the reason Obama selected Biden.

[pnwmom]

170. Obama picked Biden to balance the ticket and to get the all-important white-male voters

from the swing states.

For international relations, he knew Hillary would make a much better Secretary of State than Biden.

[nsd]

172. How do you know that?

That Obama thought Clinton would be a better SOS than Biden? I don't think there's any evidence to suggest that that's true.

[pnwmom]

174. Because Hillary doesn't engage in inappropriate nuzzling with foreign leaders, for one thing.

Have you seen the photos of Biden whispering into the ears of the Irish President, Mary McAleese, or the Brazilian President, Dilma Rousseff, who "joked" that he was "very seductive"?

He, the V.P., didn't treat the female Heads of State as his equal.

Yuck.

The piece below is from NY Magazine in Feb 2015 (not a rightwing publication). The comments below the photos are satirical, but the photos themselves are real.

The second photo, of the woman in the lilac jacket, was the Irish President.

The eighth photo, of the woman in the pink lace dress with the sash, is the Brazilian President.

Yes, the adult women all behaved as if it was fine. That is what most women have been taught to do -- not make a scene. The young girls haven't learned to fake it yet.

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2015/02/9-times-joe-biden-whispered-in-womens-ears.html

[Laura PourMeADrink]

33. +1. He's ahead nationally. If we fall into trump trap, shame on us.

[pnwmom]

76. He's just got more name recognition, and reflected glory from Obama.

We have multiple other candidates who could be better. And they have a chance to develop more name recognition during the primaries.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

83. May be. It's all about the numbers. Trump approval

In crititcal states plus cheating has to be below 45%

What is the differential in a head to head? Perhaps someone will rise up? Not yet.

[stonecutter357]

4. K&R

[snowybirdie]

5. Been married

to an old white guy for almost 58 years. I kinda like them.

[Peacetrain]

48. I have one of those at home too

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. I'm not so much offended as irritated at the ageism.

Everyone needs to be evaluated individually. Some people are worn out at 70 or even sooner; others are strong and capable well into their 80s or even longer. Just look at Winston Churchill, Nelson Mandela, Konrad Adenauer, Queen Elizabeth, Nancy Pelosi, Maxine Waters or Ruth Bader Ginsburg.

[sheshe2]

12. I agree with you completely, TVO.

However I think that our elders need to do more nurturing of our younger ones to help them along AND I firmly believe that the young ones should do some listening and not throw the elders out as yesterdays news. We can learn a lot from each other.

[Skidmore]

23. You have

a kind and loving heart, sheshe.

[sheshe2]

40. Love you, Skidmore.

You are inspirational to us all. Some have no clue who you really are. I do.

[blm]

31. I agree with these two posts

[handmade34]

7. you should be...

[rogue emissary]

8. There's a different but you are right to be offended.

Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2019, 09:01 PM - Edit history (3)

Most of us have only had a few chances to vote for an African American or female candidate. I'm 42, and the vast majority of Democrats I voted for were "old white guys." I think I've voted for maybe two women and four African American candidates in my twenty plus years of voting.

I don't think it's right not to vote for Biden on his age or race. His record, positions, and goals should be what makes people vote for or against him.

Just realize a lot of people made excuses for your relatives that wouldn't vote for a black man or women. A few candidates that are running now make those excuses. So according to them not voting because of race or sexist bigotry are alright.

[louis c]

11. As a Democrat, I supported a black guy and a woman in the last 3 elections...

...being against Biden, or anyone else, because of their age or ethnicity costs us votes.

If you think another candidate can beat Trump (no other issue should matter this time), support your argument with facts.

[rogue emissary]

13. and how many "old white men" have you voted for?

I agreed with you that it's wrong, but I can't make an argument. Many on here would call it too cynical, that I'm trolling, a bot or just trying to divide the party. Etc.

[louis c]

131. Let's see...

Last edited Sat Apr 6, 2019, 05:05 PM - Edit history (1)

The only Republican I ever voted for was Ed Brooke for US Senator in Mass. in 1972 and 1978. I voted for Martha Coakley at least 3 times, Liz Warren twice, I worked for and am still in contact with my Congresswoman, Katherine Clark. I supported Maura Healy, our AG, and Deb Goldberg, our Treasurer. My Mayor is 33 years old, although he's a white guy. I voted for Barack in the General Election in 2008, and Hillary in the primary. I supported Barack in 2012 and Hillary in 2016. I voted for Mondale, although a white guy, he was a bit younger, but Geraldine Ferrero was his running mate. I supported and voted for Suzanne Bump as our Auditor. I supported Maura Hennigan for Register of Deeds and those are the ones I can put my finger on, off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many, many more.

I have never voted for anyone because of their race, gender or age. But to say to me that people who look like me are disqualified only because they look like me is offensive.

And if the Democrats go down that road of saying that a person is not qualified because they look like a huge part of the voters, get ready to lose again.

On edit: Deval Patrick, twice, for Governor. I would say I have voted, in Massachusetts, for more black guys and women for Senator, governor and congress, than for old white guys.

For President: McGovern, Carter, Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Hillary.

I have never voted for a white guy over a minority or a woman in my entire life for any national office.

[rogue emissary]

205. I keep having to say this, I agree it's wrong to rule him out on race, age or gender.

Do you at least acknowledge that many are supporting him only because of his race, age, and gender?

Biden hasn't introduced or released any policies like the other candidates. Yet, he's leading in most of the polls. A lot of his supporters won't say it, but it's clear to me that they want him to run cause they fear the racist and misogynist that voted for Donny.

So I don't agree with those few that are ruling him out, but I understand. They're responding to that same racism and misogyny that many of Biden supporters are using to justify his entering the race.

[louis c]

206. no, not in the Democratic primary...

...I will admit that there are a portion of the white, working class voters that will only vote for a white guy, but they don't vote in primaries, especially Democratic ones.

These voters , unfortunately, are the swing voters in the General Election. These are the voters that have voted Democratic in the past. These are the 5% that will win or lose this election.

It won't always be this way. Demographics are shifting. We are probably two of three presidential election cycles away from never having a white guy win an election in this country. We are just not there yet and this one is too important to lose.

I know, everyone brings up Obama, but, please remember the circumstances. 6 weeks before the vote the economy went into a depression in 2008. 11% unemployment and minus 9% GDP, all blamed on Republican policies. It was like 1932. No Republican was going to beat any Democrat. If that happens again, it won't matter who we nominate. But the election in 2020 will look more like 2000, 2004 or 2016. In those cases, every vote counted and all we need is Democrats voting for Democrats, and not 3rd parties and get the traditional moderate Democrats and independents (unions) to come home.

In my opinion, Biden does that.

[BurntPickle]

9. Not a leader

I like Joe Biden. I even like his touchiness. What I dont like is that he just isnt leadership material. He has kind of meandered in his political career. He's been anti - integration in his past not because he believes in it but because it was the norm and popular to think and say at the time.

The guy is way too affable.

[louis c]

10. Well, experience matters...

...both in government and length of time on DU.

[Butterflylady]

42. Yes, especially now.

[ehrnst]

179. "Anti-integration?" How so? (nt)

[vlyons]

14. Here's the Buddhist perspective on why you shouldn't be offended

Because basically, you're better than that, and you came into this world already possessing Buddha nature. You just haven't realized your true nature yet.

Everything that we experience in life, falls into one of 3 categories: pleasant, unpleasant, and neutral. There are more things that are unpleasant than there are stars in the sky. But if I got angry and resentful everytime I experienced something unpleasant, I would never be happy. Ditto the pleasant stuff. Usually our unenlighted ego responds to the pleasant with desire, greed and attachment. To the neutral, we nurture indifference. We respond to the unpleasant with aversion that we nurture into fear, anger, and hatred. Attachment, aversion, indifference are what keep us stuck in problems and suffering. Just ask yourself are you truly happy and joyous, when you're telling yourself how justified you are to feel insulted. You can always choose not to nurture resentment and anger. You can choose to think different thoughts. It's the Donald Trumps of this world, who get freaked out, resentful, and angry, when they tell themselves how they've been disrespected. They let that resentment fester and fester and then blowup in a temper trantrum. How dare the universe present them something unpleasant! There outa be a law against it! that's his thought process.

We cannot control what others think and do. We can only control what we think and do. Taming our own minds is the greatest of all accomplishments. That's why it's called enlightenment. Seeing the world with a higher mind is virtuous and its own reward.

If you know that your campaign contributions were the right thing to do and made with a good intention, that's really all that matters. If people see Beto as an old white guy, who cares what they think? It's what you think that matters.

May all sentient beings rest in the equanimity of no more craving, attachment, and aversion.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

20. First Nations in North America cast that as "Feed the good wolf".

Of course, such a nutshell summary is not a real summary, and no analogy is truly fully encompassing.

[peacebuzzard]

151. It is so fitting to be called "First Nations"

In NM what was formerly known as Columbus Day is now “Indigenous People’s Day”, a bill signed by the new Dem governor. Michelle Lujan Grisham. (There are flashes of hope out there).

[Laura PourMeADrink]

74. Thanks. Want to read over and over again.

[peacebuzzard]

150. Nice post eom

[demmiblue]

204. Well done. n/t

[Odoreida]

15. I'm a but offended too, but ...

I'm not so much against Biden as for Harris.

I'm the same age as you, but I would prefer a younger candidate.


Personal note:
When Barack Obama was elected I noticed it was the first time the president was younger than myself at the time.
After not too long a while, I liked it.

[unblock]

16. are you trying to say "all lives matter"?

speaking as an old white guy as well, yeah, i get the idea that it would be nice to look past race and gender entirely, and maybe in another 400 years we'll get there as a society.

but for now, race matters, gender matters, and the established historical patterns of discrimination matter.

that means that refusing to vote for a black candidate for president because he's black or a female president because she's female is *not* the same thing as refusing to vote for a white male candidate for president because he's white and male.

personally, i'm not ruling anyone out, certainly not biden, i think he'd make a great president. but at the same time, getting a woman behind the resolute desk gives us a certain progress as a society that no man can offer (though the man can certainly offer progress in other ways).

i don't think people should rule anyone out purely on the basis of being a white male, but it's not at all the same thing as the fights you had re obama or hillary.

it just isn't.

[Turbineguy]

17. I'm a 68 year old white guy.

You trigger an interesting thought. "Do I like Biden cuz he's an old white guy?" I thought I leaned toward him because he's a foreign policy wonk and in foreign policy you need somebody with the stature of President to do that kind of work. But maybe I have the heretofore unnamed cognitive "Old White Guy" bias.

As I suggested before, ALL Democratic Candidates currently running should be part of the next Administration. It's going to take a really competent and big team to undo what Trump with his republican helpers has done.

[Cousin Dupree]

18. The ageism on DU amazes me.

And they’ll argue over and over that it’s not the same as prejudice against women, persons of color, LGBTQ people, etc.etc, etc.

[marylandblue]

38. No two prejudices are alike, each has it's own parameters.

That's a universal truth we should acknowledge rather than use such differences to further divide people.

[Clash City Rocker]

59. It's easier to be prejudiced against groups who are seen as powerful

It’s easy to feel justified because the people who are in power mostly come from those groups, although a typical member of that group is probably not holding that power. So, it’s easier to hate white people, rich people, old people, etc. The right uses similar tactics to create prejudice against educated people.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. I'm sick and tired of RepubliCON white guys running for President.

Unfortunately, the few tRump-Republicon women politicians are about as bad and about as white, though not as male, and definitely not any better than their male counterparts.

[DoctorJoJo]

21. I'm Older Than You and I Think Both Biden and Sanders Are WAY too Old

[Tikki]

25. I'm, also, older then the OP and will vote for whomever has the D.

And I am, also, hoping for a younger candidate to be our nominee.

Tikki

[warmfeet]

22. Old people are more likely to die, suddenly.

I like old people. I hope to become one.

Fact is, they are more likely to die, suddenly, than younger people.

I am 56.

I want someone who will not die, suddenly, while serving as POTUS.

It's not ageism, it's reality.

No need to be all in a huff.

[Demit]

135. Not just that, but decline can be sudden. And swift.

You could have a healthy vibrant 78 year old one day, and a sudden swift decline in mental or physical health not long after. It happens. Age is a valid concern.

[58Sunliner]

24. I see it too. Ageism is destructive.If I were to choose Biden it would be because of his experience.

We need someone who knows how the White House should function and he has that experience. If Joe comes out for marijuana reform, a realistic assessment of combating climate control, corruption etc... he would broaden his appeal. He has to be specific, show his own evolution on the issues. I do not think his comments this weekend, that he asked permission before he touched the people (one man, one boy), at the meeting he spoke at, is appropriate. Poor choice. I was surprised he did that.

[wsbradshaw]

26. It's not that he's old

I'm 62 years old. It's not that these guys are old its that they are seen as symbols of the same old thing.

[brooklynite]

27. You're welcome to be offended...and I don't care if you are.

VOTERS make decisions on any number of issues from age to clothes to weight to voice to policies. And "an old white guy" is probably not what most voters will be looking for this time around. We have an "old white guy" in the White House. People are likely going to look for something different.

[Roy Rolling]

94. Looking for "Different"

That's why we're are in the mess we're currently in with Trump. Voters simply wanting someone "different". But that's over-simplistic, and I don't care if you're offended.
Choosing a president is much more nuanced than our preference for race and gender, and race/gender/religion considerations are a weak way to choose management in a country of 350 million people.

But VOTERS may still choose to make superficial decisions and vote against their own interests. To happening now. So that should be our shared civic duty---to fight America becoming an Idiocracy.

[Jakes Progress]

140. Kind of rude. And odd since you are supporting an old white man

Last edited Sun Apr 7, 2019, 11:33 PM - Edit history (1)

according to the preference you have listed.

[brooklynite]

167. Hickenlooper is 67

Biden is 77. Not quite the same.

[Jakes Progress]

181. You have a limited perspective.

It is the same to a 22 year old. Equal thing to a 32 year old. Nearly identical to an 88 year old.

Both old.
Both men.
Both white.
Both a part of the old guard.

I'm not really a Biden supporter either, but it has little to do with his age. If age is your big thing, then is a 44 year old better? Would you favor a constitutional amendment to get a 20 year old elected?

[ananda]

28. I like Biden. He's my third favorite, after Beto first and Mayor Pete second.

nt

[sellitman]

30. I'm in my early 60's and

I want a fresh new face who can waken the youth of this country up enough to get them into the voting booths. That's the way to win elections. I will vote for whoever wins the primary of course but at this early stage I am overwhelmed with Mayor Pete. Joe is a wonderful human being but we need to bring not just the base to vote. We need the youth, Independants and pissed off Republicans too.

[Progressive dog]

32. I'm offended so I can't tell you not to be.

People must be judged as individuals or democracy cannot work.

[Mike Nelson]

34. Agree...

… the only way age would be a problem would be if there were some age-related issues. I see none with the older candidates. I watched Biden, Warren and Sanders speak. They have great stamina and are more coherent that thing we have now... plus, young people can have intellectual challenges, too. As far as color or gender, we need someone sensitive to the issues and willing to listen/learn... if he wins, Biden would likely "balance the ticket" by picking a VP not matching their color/gender - as Hillary and Obama did!

[pamdb]

35. another old (68) white woman

First, let me say I like Joe Biden, I really really really wish he had run in 2016.

If he gets the nomination, I will vote for him. I will vote for whomever gets the nomination, there are some I like more than others, but I will vote for whomever gets the nomination. Someone once said, democrats fall in love, republicans fall in line. We need to be more like that.

Having said that, I agree with Pete Buttigieg, WHO I REALLY LIKE, when he said, when asked about candidates like Biden and Sanders and even Elizabeth
Warren, that this election is about the future of our country and our world and I thought, yeah. I'll be dead in 20 years, maybe less. This is not my future we're talking about. I'm old. I have my medicare and my social security, and a nice comfortable living. But this election is about the future and the future is the 20 and 30 and 40 year olds. It's their world, it's their future. I don't want someone older than me. We've had our time, it's time for the Buttigieg and the Harris's and the O'Rourkes and the Kloubuchers.

[delisen]

96. Yet Konrad Adenauer built the future of modern Germany as the oldest

of the old politicians. Germany of course has a much younger politician who totally destroyed Germany, much of Europe and the world.

People are individuals.

Tony Blair knowingly led his county into a war based on lies (stood up in Parliament and intoned that Britain must pay the blood price.

Marcron was hailed as the dynamic young leader wo was going to do wonders for France-yet the French seem quite disenchanted today.

I don't see the age of the individual at the head of government as a factor in building a future democracy.

[safeinOhio]

36. A little older than you and I

remember not too long ago being mad at those that were saying Nancy was to old to run the House. She sure shut that down.

[dhol82]

37. Have to say - he's growing on me.

Originally said he was too old but I am now rethinking that opinion.
He’s good. And compassionate. And he was a fucking good VP!

[Evolve Dammit]

39. I don't blame you. The reality is whoever gets the nomination, we need to back them.

I share your loss of relatives/ friends issues. I too, have lost both. No common ground at all; and no intent to work toward any mutual understanding despite obvious shared values. The next election decides our countries survival. Hang in there, from a fellow union member.

[pnwmom]

41. Ronald Reagan was our oldest President, at 69, and many of us remember

watching his decline. After he left office, they finally admitted his Alzheimers, and pretended that he had had an unusually quickly progressive case. But we all saw it play out in real time.

And now we're seeing it, along with his preexisting personality disorders, in DJT.

Unfortunately, there's a huge increase in the risk of Alzheimers when you're pushing 80 as opposed to pushing 70.

https://www.alz.org/alzheimers-dementia/what-is-alzheimers/causes-and-risk-factors

Most individuals with the disease are 65 and older. After age 65, the risk of Alzheimer's doubles every five years. After age 85, the risk reaches nearly one-third.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/how-important-is-age-as-an-alzheimers-risk-factor-98803

While the prevalence of a disease is the proportion of a population that is affected by the disease at a specific time, the incidence of a disease is the rate at which new cases occur in a population during a specified period. For Alzheimer's disease, the incidence among people age 85 years and older is about 14 times that among people aged 65 to 69 years. Another study found that beginning at age 65, the risk of Alzheimer's disease increased by 23 percent per additional year of age.

[loyalsister]

90. Alzheeimers is just one of a massive constellation

Our bodies break down. There are thousands of illnesses and disorders for us to age into. It's a natural process and one I would hope any potential candidate would view realistically.

[moreland01]

43. I'll tell you why you shouldn't be offended (maybe?).

The problems that the next 10 generations will face are going to be so serious that they need to be dealt with by people shaking in their boots about their own futures. First, let me say that I'm 55 and don't have kids (I do have step kids). The future looks so bleak for young adults with regards to jobs, retirement, paying for their kid's college educations, climate, etc. It is going to be these next generations that will face the consequences of what previous generation(s) did to them. We've had our chance to fix these problems and have, in most cases, made them worse. I want people in the White House who will deal with these issues in their lives over the next 20 to 30 years so they take them extremely seriously. Biden and Bernie and everyone else over 70 had their chance. Let's hear what the directly affected future generations have to say and see if they can get the job done to save the planet and themselves.

[UniteFightBack]

44. I think some folks are just venting when they say stuff like that. But I get what you are saying.

When I see people say that stuff and I want to confront them I say please replace 'old white' with 'young black' in your sentence...and ya know what....they won't do it. So I end with there is your answer, it's not right either way.

[Tarc]

47. That's the kind of false equivalence that one finds in alt-right forums

White males have dominated American politics for centuries, yet are now just 31% of the population.

There's nothing wrong with expressing a preference for more diverse leadership, and an opposition to the same ol' same ol'...

[UniteFightBack]

49. It's not a false equivalence. It does not sound nice to say I'm not voting for an old white guy

because they are old and white. Just as it wouldn't be right to say I'm not voting for Kamala Harris because she is too young and black.

[Tarc]

102. "Just as it wouldn't be right to say"

There is is again.

[highplainsdem]

45. As a woman who's been a lifelong Democrat, I think you have every right to be offended.

[pansypoo53219]

46. just so long as we can beat prima donnie. i only want somebody who can speak to the morons who went

for the moron whisperer.

[still_one]

53. You don't vote for someone because you don't agree on the issues, fine, but because of age, that is

prejudice

[maxsolomon]

55. What about nominating Carter? He's eligible.

He's even older than Biden & Sanders!

No? YOUR AGEISM OFFENDS ME.

at old white people getting offended at political and physical realities. Dems win when young people show up.

[louis c]

106. Here's the facts

<snip>The exit polls from the Nov. 8 election contain a wealth of data. One result that particularly stands out is a glaring generational gap: Donald Trump won the presidential election by 8 percentage points among voters 45 and older, and he lost to Hillary Clinton by 14 points among 18-to-44 year-olds.<snip>

<snip>The odds that an older citizen was a voter rather than a non-voter, compared to those in the younger cohort, averaged 7 to 1. In a few cities, the relative electoral clout of residents 65 and older was far higher - ranging as high as Fort Worth's 56 to 1.

We see much the same dynamic in the non-presidential midterm elections, in which all 435 member of the U.S. House and more than 6,000 of the nation's 7,300 state legislators are chosen. While the 2014 exit polls pegged the median voter age at about 52, research we've done shows that number closer to 57<snip>

Your reasoning is for losers. I want to appeal to the people who vote. You want to appeal to the people who don't and try to change their habits, when, in fact, they have never changed.

https://www.governing.com/columns/smart-mgmt/col-aging-electorate-voting-participation-democracy.html

[maxsolomon]

197. No, YOUR reasoning is for "losers".

Obama got young people to turn out in larger proportions than typical. How? by being their Dad's age, not their Grampa's.

Old people still showed up like they always do, mainly to stop the wheels of progress from turning. But the proportions were less pronounced, and it was enough to win.

Regardless, Biden probably won't even announce at this point. Hoist by his own Petard.

[louis c]

201. Obama was elected because the Rpublican Economy melted down

A self fulfilling prophecy.

In 2008 and 2012, the Democrats took older Democratic votes for granted, and they could. When we needed younger voters in 2016, the young voters bolted.

Obama and FDR brought us home will only when the unemployment rate is 11%, as in 2016 or 25% as it was in 1932 and the Republicans are in control. Please don't use either of those elections as examples on how to win. Those are rare occurrences.

What happens is more like 2000 and 2016, when we lose squeakers because the more moronic voters vote third party. I wonder who that group is?

[Beartracks]

56. Good point. Gotta add: Diversity *includes* old white guys, too. n/t

[TeamPooka]

58. We currently have an old white guy as President. Are you happy?

[Inkfreak]

99. Simplistic bullshit.

[louis c]

104. Let's see if we can win an election for President by insulting and dismissing...

...old white guys. I'm not saying the nominee should be an old white guy. But the attitude that being an old white guy is a disqualifier dooms our chances.

[SMC22307]

118. So all old white guys are Trump in your world?

Are all old black guys Herman Cain to you?

[CloudWatcher]

60. Biden is ... 76

I too am an old white guy (65). But Biden is 76. And we're really talking about trying to get the best person possible for an 8 year term.

From what I've seen, he's doing ok. But .. 8 years is a long time. I'll happily vote for Joe if he gets the nomination, but I think I would prefer someone who is up to running the office hard for 8 long years.

And it's no secret that the job ages people.

Frankly I have to overcome my #1 prejudice against all the candidates: anyone that wants the job is nuts and should likely be locked up until they're feeling sane again.

[GemDigger]

82. I don't think he wants 8 years. He didn't even say he wants 4 years yet.

I say we should stop with the ageism stuff and wait until he says something himself.

[Lordquinton]

61. Welcome to Team Sanders

where they've been enduring the "Old white guy" thing for years. Just gotta let it roll off your back. Haters gonna hate and all that.

[SCantiGOP]

62. I'm also an old white guy and solid Democrat

If you don’t know why you shouldn’t be offended when someone says they don’t want our Democratic Party dominated by old white guys, I certainly won’t presume to explain it.

[bitterross]

63. As another old white guy I choose to NOT be offended and see a deeper meaning.

I'll be 55 this year and I'm trying to find a new job. I've applied for jobs that look like they took my resume and wrote the ad using my resume to describe the required experience part. Yet I get no response. I'm pretty sure they think I'm too old to learn new tricks and too old to change to fit in their environment. So I see your point and I feel your pain. I acknowledge your right to feel offended. Everyone is entitled to feel how they feel. No one should tell you not to feel some particular way. Your feelings are yours.

My take on the whole "we don't need another old white guy" isn't that people are trying to be discriminatory toward old white guys - in this case. My take is people are tired of the status quo. Which just so happens to be synonymous with "old white guys." It is clear to me now Trump and Russia played on that beautifully in the last election. The base of people who voted for Trump were the racist, bigoted, deplorable, assholes who want to BE him but never will. They're living vicariously through him. But they're not who got him elected. The people who got Trump elected were the people who are tired of the status quo. Their votes pushed him over the finish line. Sure, Russia was crucial in helping him, but they did so by targeting those people for him. They didn't change votes in the machines (that we know of yet). They pushed real people with real feelings to vote a certain way - against the status quo.

Hillary was the epitome of the status quo and the establishment. I LOVE her, I voted for her, I stuffed envelopes and went door-to-door for her. I contributed money. She was still the epitome of the status quo and the establishment.

I love Biden. I think he's very qualified. I have defended him here and elsewhere when people make allegations of sexual assault. I suspect he brought a lot of experience and wisdom to bear and assist while he was Obama's VP. Stuff we never heard about but helped Obama keep on track and out of danger.

I think the people who say "no more old white guys" are trying to avoid a 2016 repeat. Avoid the swing voters going for change over stability. I don't think Trump can fool as many people as he did the last time around. But, if people see Biden as just "more of the same establishment politics" and they sit out the election then that's just as bad as if they vote for Trump.

[marble falls]

64. Take look at pictures of Congress even during the Obama administration: thats why ...

guys who looked like you and screwed this country up. Our time is over. Congress needs to look like everybody not just you and me. Forty five Presidents and only one doesn't look like you and me.

All candidates being equal, I will vote for the woman first.

I apologize to my children and yours for allowing the crap to happen they will be fixing for years after you and I are pushing daisies.

An important fact to consider when you next vote: black women are the best educated segment of the population these days.

https://www.theroot.com/black-women-now-the-most-educated-group-in-us-1790855540

[Moostache]

203. Please do not forget that Congress is stuffed to the gills with millionaires too...

https://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/every-member-congress-wealth-one-chart

Congressional and Senate Millionaires:
% of total Congress wealth - 97.1%
% of total members - 37.7% (203 out of 538)

Now, unless you BELIEVE that 37.7% of the population is comprised of millionaires, there is a DEFINITE representative issue that goes well beyond just race and gender (although those two subsets are largely screwed by old white men millionaires worse than most)...

[marble falls]

207. Or lawyers, dentists and insurance agents - what I read some time ago make up the ...

biggest groups in Congress. We need more 'bartenders'.

[Moostache]

208. AMEN!

More line cooks, waiters, hostesses, secretaries, auto workers, repairmen, electricians and just about EVERYTHING aside from another goddamn lobbyist or lawyer!

If the government of America LOOKED like America, the rich would still be paying a top marginal rate of 90%, medicine and health care would be universal and a right, childcare would safe, effective and affordable for those choosing to work during formative years and schools would be public, successful and leading the world from pre-K to PhD programs (including trade school and skill options for service-related careers for those of less academic bent).

WE would have the best roads, bridges, dams, airports, seaports and electrical grid known to human history. We would also have ZERO BILLIONAIRES, very few Hundred-MILLIONAIRES and a much larger "middle class" earning more than now because the floor would be much higher as well.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

65. 99% of DUers think Nancy's the greatest leader for

us in 2019. That she's playing three dimensional chess with the most evil, conniving creature ever to exist in the political world ! And no worries.

Nancy is 79
Schumer is 68
Trump is 72
Bernie is 77
Biden is 76
Hillary is 71

So age and whiteness is irrelevant.

DU is only a fraction of the real world Dems. Take their pulse. The most important thing is ridding us of the monster. Everyone else with great liberal credentials and intentions can lead in important positions!

Bottom line, the real world Dems will select the person to beat trump (most important thing to them as well as a desire for the Dems to moderate, per polls)

[aka-chmeee]

130. Thank You for the Reminder!

that DU is only a (small) fraction of Democrats.
I started out ringing door bells for RFK when still too young to vote and got to vote for McGovern over Nixon. Never have voted for a republican for anything higher than municipal office and it seems the anti-white male d***s here want to make me unwelcome in my party.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

137. I worked for and voted for Sen Shelby and then the

Schmuck turned repuke. Does that count? Haha

But voting for a republican in the past has zero semblance to today. We have GOT to get rid of MF45. If a purplish turquoise person could do that, great. But at least make some attempt to prove it with numbers, reasons, path to victory. Don't just say "I love him" or "time for a woman".

[BlueFlorida]

66. You are correct sir

and thank you for your support of the Democratic party.

[Uncle Joe]

69. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread louis c.

[ecstatic]

77. I hope all of us will be more careful and polite when discussing these things.

Even if we feel that way, why say it out loud? My number one concern is getting trump out, period. So strategically speaking, we shouldn't word things in a way that will offend our base or potential democratic voters.

That being said, Biden is old. As is Bernie. And Warren too. Nevertheless, I'd gladly support Biden--although I'd be slightly apprehensive about his health and ability to handle the most demanding job on the planet for the next 8 years.

[hughee99]

80. I feel like under almost any other circumstance, as an old white guy,

this would be where someone suggests you "check your privilege".

One might suggest that the difference is that we've elected the "old white guy" many times and maybe they haven't liked the results, while we've had only one black president and no women. Perhaps the reason they don't like the "old white guy" isn't because he's old, or white, or a guy, but because they don't feel this has worked well in the past.

Personally, I'd prefer a younger candidate, but I don't think being an old white guy disqualifies someone from getting my vote.

[Socal31]

95. Hmmmmmm......

"Perhaps the reason they don't like the "old white guy" isn't because he's old, or white, or a guy, but because they don't feel this has worked well in the past."



This is completely contradictory, That would be exactly what it means.


"I feel like under almost any other circumstance, as an old white guy, this would be where someone suggests you "check your privilege"."


I read it as if you are trying to suggest a privilege checking, which is completely missing the OPs point. Nobody was discussing the very real thing that is privilege, but in disqualifying or discounting a candidate based on federally-protected categories.


There is nothing wrong with favoring a candidate due to characteristics one identifies with. The point is it isn't right to discourage or eliminate other candidates. Purely my opinion, of course.

[hughee99]

139. It's not contradictory at all.

The question was "Please explain the difference to me between a person saying that they can't vote for an old white guy, or they can't vote for a black guy or a woman."

Let's say someone is willing to vote for an old person, a white person or a guy, but not someone who is all three. Another person won't vote for anyone who is black, or anyone who is female. Are they the same thing?

As far as privilege goes, this person is OFFENDED that someone else would disqualify an old white guy. Now, I wouldn't disqualify anyone for that, but I can understand where someone with different life experiences may feel differently. That sounds like cause for a "privilege check" to me.

[David__77]

81. I wouldn't tell you not to be offended.

I can understand wanting to support candidates of historically underrepresented groups.

I also think that it is not needed for people who aren’t of such groups to choose to opt out or be quiet to make room for others. More space can be created for others- all can contribute and communicate.

[world wide wally]

86. Biden / Harris

A good first 4 years.
Then maybe Harris / Beto or Mayor Pete

[bernie59]

87. I think a lot of people who use those words "old white guy"

simply don't know any better. It is a safe way to be edgy.

[WeekiWater]

91. Biden is a bit old for me.

I do take it into consideration. So does Biden. He says he is in it for one term. Taking age into account shouldn’t offend you. If it does, it’s on you.

The white guy part is understandable. How many Presidents? How many old white guys? Representation is important. It means something. The old white guy faction has been over represented since our inception.

Support Biden. Saying one doesn’t want to vote for an old white guy is absolutely nothing like saying they don’t want to vote for a black guy.

To be clear, I think supporting Biden in the primary is a great choice. It’s just not my choice.

[Demit]

136. I think throwing away the advantage of incumbency is lunacy.

Has he really said that? So we would be electing someone ostensibly for his vast experience who is only committing to the job for one term? And he admits that upfront? That's wild.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

189. I think the plan is to promote the VP. So 3 terms

[Demit]

191. I know. But a VP getting elected is a higher hurdle than a Prez getting reelected.

Not to mention that promising you'll be a one-term president invites the opposition to make you a lame duck a hell of a lot sooner.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

192. Good points. It's not ideal. But, I can envision it

mixing the best of two people. We honor age, wisdom, experience and couple that with youth and optimism. I could definitely see an older voter being thrilled to see someone like them and someone like their grandkids for their future. Vs. trump...you've got someone who knows a million times more than you about everything along with a youthful person who can talk about how you are ruining the country i.e. the environment.

[Demit]

195. Well, you're talking about the campaign, but keep in mind the four years that come after.

Actually the point might be moot. I haven't heard that Biden is still talking about serving just one term. He seems to be floating a lot of ideas before he actually declares, like toying with the idea of Stacey Abrams as his running mate. We'll see what he says after he gets in the race.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

196. Well, hope he doesn't strategize too much more..there

could be a tipping point where you appear too confident you would win. There were rumors though, that he would break with tradition and actually announce a running mate early and run as a team. This could have tremendous upside, but tremendous down side too. Like if the person was running now and they dropped out...it wouldn't make sense if they were on the rise. If they weren't rising, then there would be a reason for that- no mass appeal.

I tend to think more short term than you. Get the MF out and everything will be better from there.

[Honeycombe8]

92. I totally agree with you, Louis. I'm an older white woman.

The best person is the person who can win. The term "old, white guy" sounds to me like an activist term. The goal isn't a Democrat winning, health care, higher minimum wage, climate change, the environment. The goal is, first and foremost, someone other than "an old, white guy." To break a barrier.

I am not looking to support anyone because of race or gender. It's the PERSON. Whoever I support, it'll be because I really think he/she can win, and partly because of the qualities he/she has shown he has. He has earned my support. As long as he/she is a Democrat and can win, I'm good.

I do think that age is a valid thing to discuss, though. Not just the current age, but the age of the candidate in his/her second term. Things happen to us all as we age. It's a factor. OTOH, with that age comes years of learning and experience. So it can be a benefit.

All I care about is winning. Whoever the candidate turns out to be.

[stevesinpa]

93. NAIL ON THE HEAD

i have been asking the same question every time I hear or read someone saying we need to vote for a certain sex or race or whatever. how about we vote for the best person for the job? and Joe Biden is a damn good choice. my choice right now? I am undecided. there is no reason to choose one person right now.
I am a middle aged white man, who supported Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, and I enjoy the support of my union.

[crazytown]

97. Maybe because no 'old' Democrat has kicked the Republicans out of the Whitehouse

since WW1 - One hundred years.

The Oldest was Jimmy Carter (52) , the youngest JFK (43) - most recently WJC (46) and Barack Obama (47). FDR was 51. When it comes to Democrats. Americans prefer a new hope, not more of the same.

[Wednesdays]

144. Are you talking about Woodrow Wilson?

Wilson was still only 55 on Election Day 1912, so even he was not really that far up there in years.

Edited to add: Grover Cleveland was 47 when he was first elected, so Wilson was the oldest Democrat elected to first term (in the modern era of the party, since the Civil War), at 55 years old.

[crazytown]

164. Yes! Cleveland first time round 47

Wilson’s faced a split GOP. I don’t ‘count’ him for a lot of stuff.

[Inkfreak]

98. There is no difference. It's bigotry.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

100. Ok, you should not be offended, because you are not yet "old".

66 is the new 45. You got plenty of time left to get old.

Hmmph. Youngsters these days.

[Gothmog]

101. Amen

I love the OP I also am amused by the people who are attacking Biden

Great post.

I am older white guy who is working hard to turn Texas blue. Biden is the most electable candidate in the field

[Amimnoch]

103. Because it's the same disingenuous offense Republicans oft use.

When Republicans are “offended” at kneeling for the national anthem, their reasoning is that it’s due to the disrespect for the flag, or disrespecting our troops, when it’s really a very valid and peaceful protest of inequities in our country.

People who are really pushing for a female POTUS aren’t doing so because they have issue with older white males, they’re doing it because they want 50% of the population to finally have someone in our highest office that is like them.. someone that offers validation that they too also matter.. A first time of representation after almost 250 years of this Republic’s existance.

Women have twice watched a highly qualified, life long public servant get crucified and denied electoral validation. First time was to someone who also broke a glass ceiling, and was accepted, but especially the second time to someone who was forgiven and elected despite having no qualifications and outright speaking so many heinous things and STILL being selected above her. She was villified for every little thing while he was forgiven every detestable quality and character flaw imaginable.

I’m not in that group that has gender/age/race as a highest of priorities, but I can certainly see and respect why others would, and rather than be offended because of this particular “kneel”, I’d rather understand and support it.

[louis c]

109. Your reasoning will make us lose

Insulting older Americans when they vote at vastly higher percentages than young people will guarantee Trump another election

[seaglass]

105. I would like a candidate who can reasonably be expected to be Pres for 8 years - not a 4 yr

lame duck.

Biden would be 81 by inauguration day of a 2nd term
Sanders would be 82 by inauguration day of a 2nd term

And the stress of the Presidency (if you actually do any work) ages you.

Age is not the only factor that goes into my primary decision but it is one of them.

Sorry it hurts your feelings, I think it's practical.

[louis c]

108. How about we just beat Trump and worry about all the other bullshit later.

My feelings aren't hurt. But if the Democrats say that older folks should not apply, then older folks will vote for the party who doesn't say that.

and the biggest difference between older folks and younger folks is that older folks vote.

You want to let Trump win? I know I'll be doing just fine with my equity and pensions, while my younger cohorts are saddled with student debt. You know why that is? My generation votes. you want to win an election? Don't insult the people who vote.

[seaglass]

111. Well if that isn't the dumbest question I have ever been asked. YOU may be convinced that Biden

is the only one who can beat Trump but I am not. He doesn't have a good track record of winning a primary, does he?

These ridiculous threats from Democrats about not voting for Democrats because reason x, y, z are what will get Trump re-elected.

BTW I have been voting ever since I was eligible as a young person back in 1976.

[louis c]

134. Here's what's dumb...

...being unable to read these numbers and understand them.

Link:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/president/

[seaglass]

145. No need to get nasty. You can believe polls won't change from now to the election if

that makes you feel good.

[louis c]

163. Here's what I'm sure of...

...either the polls change, or they don't.

But Elizabeth Warren won't ever break double digits.

I worked on her two campaigns in Massachusetts for Senator. She's a great Senator. But if you think for a minute she can connect with swing voters, you're sadly mistaken.

Her numbers in 2018 against a nobody, we're worse in Massachusetts than Hillary's were in 2016. You know what that tells me? Liz is less likable than Hillary to Massachusetts voters. We'll need a miracle to carry Penn, Mich, Ohio, Wisc, and/or Fla with her at the top of the ticket.

Can I see numbers changing? I sure can. If Biden tanks, Kamala is my second choice. But the polls do matter and I expect them to change, but it could be in any direction. But Warren at 7%, come on, that tells us something.

My prediction is that she gets slaughtered in Iowa and NH and she's out before SC.

My advice to you is start looking for a second choice.

[seaglass]

166. Wow, you are just full of unnecessary advice. First, I am from MA so you don't need to school me

on Liz or Hillary's reception or voting results in MA.

Second, I have more than one candidate that I am supporting but we're only allowed to choose one on DU.

If I was voting today I'd be voting for Liz.

It is so early to get so twisted up about Biden, he hasn't even announced yet and you are in full on attack mode.

How about this - when voting gets to MA and if the only ones left are Biden, Gabbard, Sanders, Yang, Williamson - I will definitely vote for Biden.

Maybe chill a bit.

[louis c]

175. I am very chilled...

...and this election is far simpler for me than most. I don't really care about the candidates or their positions. I am not treating it like a city council race. I'm treating it like a cross roads election and all that matters is winning or losing in the General Election.

So, there are only three words that matter to me for 2020: Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin.

[Lancero]

112. So your argument is... BoB?

Biden or Bust?

[Persondem]

107. I can't. I have no problem with old(er) white men for prez - Inslee 2020 K & R nt

[qazplm135]

114. Because not having a female President

Is a fucking sexist embarrassment.

It's ridiculous. It's misogynistic. It's beyond time.

So no guys period this time.

[IluvPitties]

115. It's not that simple for a job like president

It's about who can do the best job.

[qazplm135]

116. Fuck that

You have no idea who can do the best job. None of us do.
There is no evidence that Harris or Warren would do any less well than any man running.

None.

[IluvPitties]

120. Whoever people on our side think is the best

That's who will be. Gender shouldn't qualify or disqualify anybody.

[qazplm135]

122. It's disqualified women

For 220 years.

But don't worry we all know that the chances of it being an old white guy are pretty damn high.

[IluvPitties]

124. I like all of our candidates, including Harris.

Well, most of them at least. The thing is, we are on the same side and luckily, if a woman gets the nomination, we will support her all the way to the WH.

[qazplm135]

127. Not about liking

It's about 220 years without a woman.

How are you not embarrassed at that?

If you like them all, then how are you not supporting one of the women?

[SMC22307]

119. Ridiculous.

May the best candidate win in spite of age, gender, orientation, race, etc.

[qazplm135]

121. So you have a time travel device

That tells you who the best President will be?

Amazing.

[SMC22307]

143. I do my research and vote for who I think the best candidate is.

As do millions of other Americans. This shouldn't be news to you, or anyone.

[qazplm135]

146. what's news to me

is the idea that each election actually results in the most qualified person being picked, or that you can tell that ridiculously unsupportable metric at all.

Are they qualified? Yes. Would they make a good President? Yes.

That's good enough. If you like Bernie then vote for Warren. If you like Biden or Beto then vote for Harris.
Same results, and finally not a man.

[Still In Wisconsin]

159. OK, no guys period. What matters most is electing a woman, got it. So consider this hypothetical:

Let's take Biden completely out of the equation.

Suppose in four years the Republican nominee is Ivanka Trump, or Sarah Palin. Or maybe Cindy Hyde-Smith. Whoever it is, she's running against, say, Corey Booker or Pete Pete Buttigieg in the general election. Who are you voting for?

[McCamy Taylor]

117. The "old" part is definitely offensive.

[OhZone]

123. You sound like my Uncle.

The only reason I can think is that women and minorities have been repressed big time historically, BUT, yeah, you have a right to defend your pick and not be attacked for his gender, age, or race. I'm a classic feminist who supported HRC strongly. I even got a lot of flack for saying I was going to vote with my vagina in 2016. Well, especially by the Bernie supporters on a cray little forum I visit. They even got the impression that I would ONLY vote for HRC, even though I said otherwise.

But here I am supporting Biden, because I think he's the best choice against the orange evil on the other side. I love his experience, his knowledge, much of history, his electability, and his talent at speaking to BS and Gish Gallops.

I do love all our Democratic candidates, but I like Biden the best. Well, I'm a little miffed at Castro right now, but any Dem over a Con!

[NellieStarbuck]

125. This old white woman agrees.

I am excited about all the candidates who have thrown their hats into the ring and thrilled by the possibility of a woman, a woman of color, a gay or Latinx President. BUT I won't vote for anyone just because I am thrilled by the demographics. I have long been a fan of Elizabeth Warren and she is my current favorite. That could change. I was also fervently hoping that Sherrod Brown would run. But, no, I'm with you. I am still capable of voting for an old white man.

[cab67]

128. I can honestly tell you -

I think Joe Biden is a great American and patriot. And I don't want him to run. It has nothing - NOTHING - to do with his age, skin color, or gender. It has a lot more to do with my assessments of the other candidates' policies and perspectives.

[Chakaconcarne]

129. that's bullshit....whomever is saying this against

our candidates, here on this website, is a TROLL. You don't have to support them, but once you start knocking them down or speaking unkindly of them then you deserve a good DU dogpile. ...and I think we all know what that looks like.

We're going to see the trolls come left and right and if we let them define any negative narrative about our candidates, they should be flagged or whatever DU does to TROLLS...we can lose if we don't.

NOTHING but respect should be expressed here for our candidates... PERIOD.

[yellowwoodII]

132. Why Does It Matter So Much to You?

I haven't heard anybody criticize Biden because he is old and/or white, but if I did, I think that whether I am offended or not is irrelevant.

Age is relevant because we want a person who had eight more good years in him. That would make Biden 85 or so at the end of two terms. It just makes sense to give that some thought. Not that it is being "ageist."

Skin color is, I agree, irrelevant.

But why does your being offended matter in the scheme of things?

[louis c]

133. Are you living under a rock?

That's all I hear.

And, as a matter of fact, it doesn't offend me as much as it offends the voters we're trying to win over. I'm sick of chasing the demographic groups who just don't vote or are easily dissuaded to waste a vote on a third party.

To win this election, in my opinion, we need to take 5% of the vote away from Trump that resides in white, middle class America. not every vote, just the people who voted Democratic in the past, but Trump in 2016.

To start out telling that voter that we can not nominate an old white guy for no other reason than he's an old white guy, certainly puts us off on the wrong foot in trying to convince that voter.

By the way, while I'm out on the political trail, I certainly hear that your preferred candidate is "not likable" so her policy details aren't even being listened to.

[Aaron Pereira]

138. It's a thought ending bias and divisive.

If you don't like Biden fine, talk about his record. Going after his age and race seems like an un-Democratic smear. We don't need hard feelings in the general election if he's not the nominee.

[PatrickforO]

142. I hear you. I'm an older white guy too.

I do a lot of teaching, and when I work with young professionals in the helping field, I find during the sessions on diversity there is a lot of discomfort around the white guilt of genocide and slavery. This guilt is there, but people rationalize it by saying, 'hey it wasn't me.'

And it wasn't. But it really is. It's called 'white privilege,' and it is an unearned benefit we white guys get without even asking.

But I always warn my students who are white not to be too surprised if they are working with a person of color who either mistrusts, or just plain doesn't like them. I can remember the first time it happened to me, many years ago (and it has also happened with a few female clients) - it is very disconcerting, and made me feel very, very uncomfortable, angry, indignant and so on.

I don't think 'sick and tired of old white guys' is what most people are thinking, but I will tell you this. Our white-male-dominated patriarchal culture has brought us to where we are now. Racism, white nationalism, rampant corruption and major injustice. Huge imbalance of wealth and income. The playing field being tilted ever upward at faster and faster rates. White whack-jobs that go and shoot up family planning clinics, synagogues, mosques or simply drive cars through crowds at high speeds.

Yeah, it is uncomfortable, for sure. And yes, like you, I volunteered for Obama's presidential campaigns, and supported Clinton.

I don't know what to tell you, Louis - except to ask how we can expect younger Americans, particularly young Americans of color to actually be grateful to us. For what? A system that screws them every which way but loose? Debt slavery? Wage slavery? Degrading environment? They've got a pretty big mess to clean up, and it is mostly white men who made that mess over generations.

Now, we're 12 years away from irreversible changes that may render our very planet uninhabitable.

So, these kids should be grateful? Polite? Tolerant? Well, I hope for the last two, but understand how they aren't grateful at all.

[Uncle Joe]

147. Ironic then that the younger generations have and still overwhelmingly support the oldest candidate

running for President.

So, these kids should be grateful? Polite? Tolerant? Well, I hope for the last two, but understand how they aren't grateful at all.

I believe the younger generations are most grateful without letting ageism, gender or race getting in the way of determining which candidate's message can best answer their needs for the present and into the future.

[marylandblue]

155. Maybe Sanders inoculated himself by being out of sync with the other old white guys?

Biden, on the other hand represents the old way of doing things. For some, he represents safety and stability. For others, a relic of the past.

Maybe that's what this rivalry between two old white guys is really about?

[Uncle Joe]

156. I believe you are correct marylandblue.

Bernie was far ahead of the curve.

[Kind of Blue]

152. +1000! Wow.

Because of your exceptional answer, I will pay better attention Buttigieg.

[Uncle Joe]

153. I like Pete as well and believe him to be an excellent candidate.

[PDittie]

148. Hell, go on and be offended

If you feel like it. Everybody else is (or so it seems).

[Kaleva]

149. Nobody here is not going to vote for the nominee, regardless of that person's race or age.

[louis c]

161. But, it's how we talk to swing voters...

...to tell an older voter, white or not, that any candidate that's about their age, is disqualified from being President, only because of age, is offensive to a lot of people in that age group. That line pushes people away and into Trump's arms.

That's the point I'm making.

If, in 2008, I told an African American voter, "I can't vote for Obama, because he's black" and Hillary won the nomination, how would that voter feel toward casting a ballot in my preferred candidate's direction?

I think people here should be more sensitive to that kind of talk in general.

[JustAnotherGen]

154. I came of age to vote in 1991

I've voted in the GE for 3 old white guys, one black guy, and a white woman.

Your question is a fair one.

I'm undecided - but if it's the right old white guy - Biden fits the bill. I would have no problem voting for him, Kamala, Pete, Andy, Cory or Julian.

Now generation wise - I'm dead center in age between Kamala and Pete. The fact that every one other than Biden gets called by their first name by me isn't a lack of respect. It's a matter that any of that "40- Something a few years older andyounger-"- crew is relatable to me.

I very much think it is "our" turn - and I won't apologize for that.I

Biden and others I've named? Can whoop 45's bloated maggot ass. <-- No disrespect to maggots.

[WestCoastDem42]

158. Really?

You gotta check your entitled white guy attitude at the door on this one. We had our chance and it didn't work out all that well considering the body politic and state of the planet. Let the younger crowd have their say - they are the ones that are going to be around to deal with it. I believe they are going to make the decisions that will save us all.

[louis c]

160. Great strategy....

...let's alienate all the old white voters. After all, they vote.

I'll check shit, by the way. I've donated and supported Democrats all of my life. Don't worry about my vote, I'll vote for the Democrat. But when a young Democrat says to a retired union guy that he's sick and tired of old white guys running for president (just as your explaining, here), chalk up another vote for Trump.

In every election for the last 100 years, younger voters have voted in underwhelming numbers. In the end, on election night, all they count are votes, they don't weigh bullshit.

The biggest difference between older voters and younger voters is that older voters vote.

[brush]

162. Nothing wrong with a white male and/or a woman or POC on the ticket.

[madville]

168. There is no difference

Any comment disqualifying a candidate because of race, sex, religion, or age is simply bigoted, sexist, racist, and/or ageist. Some just think it is justified, that's all.

[nsd]

171. I'm not white and I'm offended by the argument that white guys must be excluded.

I'm offended because it elevates race as the most important thing about a person. And it implies that not being white relegates a person to an oppressed class who should hold certain views, regardless of their actual experience of life. As a brown person who was born in America and has lived all his life here, I have to say that that hasn't been my experience. Obviously other people have had different experiences, but that's my point: life is complicated and no single aspect should be dominant.

I like Joe Biden. My immigrant parents like Biden. My siblings like Biden. Lots of other people that we know in our community (brown not white) like Biden. They see in him -- the physical affection, the fatherly affect, the openness -- echoes of lots of people we know (again, brown not white). It's not about white privilege. He's not a "creepy uncle"; he's just an uncle.

Too much of the criticism of Biden has come from people who are activists, who spend too much time online, who can use the term "woke" without irony, who have a professional interest in making race central to everything.

But I have to say that the immigrant brown people I actually know don't think that way. And some of them -- my parents and family definitely -- are angered by these criticisms (ageist, racist -- yes, racist) of Biden and how he's been treated in the media this last week.

[Buzz cook]

173. #Notalloldwhitemen.

That's what I hear in the OP even though I'm sure that isn't his intent.

Certainly many old white men are qualified and able to do the job of president. Many old white men are as liberal/progressive as any other demographic.
But those politicians and influential people that have fucked the country and its citizens are almost exclusively old white men or servants of old white men.

But it doesn't stop there. Most of the politicians and people of influence who have acquiesced or turned a blind eye to the fuckery are old white men or servants of old white men.

So saying Biden isn't like other old white men is missing the point in the same way the all lives matter misses the point of black lives matter or #notallmen misses the point of female outrage.

But even without the fuckery or acquiescence old white men with power stand in privilege. Even the best of us (I am also an old white man) have problems seeing beyond that privilege.
Biden is no exception to this as the last weeks and his stilted apologia have shown..

Biden has a long history of championing good causes. He also has a history of tone deaf policy proposals and actions that fit the fuckery or at least the acquiescence side of the scale.

Here Sam Seder discusses Biden's failures in an entertaining manner.

I'll post some other links with two disclaimers. 1. I understand that some sources are too liberal for some here on DU who support Biden and if that's the case with my links I urge readers to do their own googles. 2. Even though I do not support Biden now, if he wins the nomination or gets enough delegates before the convention, I will actively support him, donate to his campaign and vote for him.

Google Biden and School Busing.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/joe-biden-integration-school-busing-120968

Google Biden voted with Reagan
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/29/us/politics/biden-abortion-rights.html

Google grand bargain biden cutting social security benefits.

Google Biden Bankruptcy
https://www.salon.com/2015/10/21/joe_bidens_greatest_betrayal_the_one_senate_vote_that_makes_it_hard_to_support_a_biden_run/


Google Biden stopped testimony from women in thomas hearing
https://www.thecut.com/2019/03/joe-biden-anita-hill-testimony-non-apology.html

I won't comment on Seder's show or the links, because I'm apparently an untrustworthy leftist because I post stuff like this about Bide.

[louis c]

176. Check you mail box...

...you'll probably get another thank you note from Trump.

[Buzz cook]

182. And I tried so hard not to upset you

I'm sorry you decided to insult me rather than to engage.

[louis c]

183. There is only one issue in this election and it's winning.

The 2020 election is very simple. The Electoral College is all that matters. Having a candidate, like Warren or Sanders feels good, after all I'm a Socialist at heart. But those days of idealism have long past me by. I'm a pragmatist now.

Let's look at 2018. Few, if any, Our Revolution candidates beat a Republican. Oh sure, they toppled long standing Democratic incumbents or won open seats that were Democratic retirements, but they did not get us our majority. What got us our majority are moderate, practical Democrats who unseated the incumbent Republicans or won open Republican seats. You can use that reasoning in the General Election in 2020. Who gives a fuck if we win California by 4 million votes instead of 3 million. Or New York by 3 million instead of 2 million. We're fucked if we lose Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan.

This is the most consequential election in my life time. It's probably the second most important election in the history of the world with the first being Germany's election in 1932.

Did you read what Obama warned about? What do you think he was referring to? Sanders and Warren.

The polls have demonstrated that Biden has the best chance to beat Trump in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan. Maybe the polls change. Maybe Kamala can eke out a victory by being the best bet in Florida, providing another path. But, unfortunately for all of us, issues don't mean shit in the General Election. It's about feelings and that's because the 10% of the electorate that actually decide the Presidential Election are the least informed and want to remain that way. 45% of the voters are like us. We read, watch, study and can recite chapter and verse about the constitution and the bill of rights. Then, there is Trump's base. That's about 40% who are misinformed or ill informed and you couldn't convince them to change their minds no matter how hard you try. Then, there's 5% who vote out of greed. They are the wealthy and well connected. They vote for the President because he reduces their taxes or de-regulates their industry. They have no moral compass. They laugh at us when we talk politics, like it's some kind of inside joke that we're not in on. That leaves the uninformed who vote on feelings. "I just like the guy or gal" or "I just can't stand her or him". If you ask them why, they have no idea. They go to work, drive their kids to school, watch silly TV shows and then vote on their feelings. They feel Biden is a nice guy and is non-threatening. No talk of Socialism (which they are deathly afraid of but have no idea what it means). They are the folks who favor the Affordable Care Act, but oppose Obama Care. They vote in the General election, but not in the Primary. They could be registered in either party but are most likely Independent.

The only way to beat Trump is to have a candidate that appeals to that middle 10%. They don't read position papers and don't even engage in election talk until after Labor Day on election year, and most, not until 2 weeks before the election.

I don't want a candidate that runs up the score in Maryland, Massachusetts, Connecticut, California and New York. I want a candidate that can win an election, not change the world.

I referred earlier to the Election in Germany in 1932. I don't need to remind you of who won that election. but few people know that the person who lost that election was Otto Wels and he lost because too many people peeled votes away with more minor parties and one of those parties sided with the Nazis to form the government. In retrospect, every German who was against Hitler should have sided with Wels.

Joe Biden is my Otto Wels, only this time, Hitler loses.

[Buzz cook]

184. In general I agree with you sentiment.

Winning is the most important thing. I disagree with your conclusion that Biden is the most likely to beat Trump.

Biden has name recognition and is a favorite of the inside the beltway media. Those are both important points in his favor.
In 2008 Clinton had the greater name recognition and again in 2016. What she lacked was a friendly media.

In 2008 Obama played to the DC villagers and they elected him the anti-Clinton so he was able to divide media opinion enough to get the nomination.
As we know the people hated Bush and by extension the republicans by that time that Dennis Kucinich could have won the presidency.

At this time 20 months from the election name recognition is not as important, the long campaign period will insure that by the time of the convention the nominee will have solid name recognition.

The favor of the villagers is now the prize. Just as the media doomed Clinton's 2008 campaign they did the same to Gore in 2000.
As I said Biden is a media darling, but the media has turned on him in the past and I wouldn't be surprised if they do in the future.

However the media has changed somewhat. they are no longer monolithic with a few Gene Lyons and Molly Ivins thrown in for flavor. There is now a democratic party leaning media, even if it isn't as large as we might like. That media can feed positive narratives into the mainstream no matter who the democratic candidate is.
While Biden is still the favored candidate of the media that is not as strong an advantage as it would have been just four years ago.

One of the things that we've learned over the last few election cycles is turning out the base is paramount to winning elections. Its one of the things conservatives have excelled at for years.
A major part of turning out the base is how attractive the candidate is to activists and young people. Obama had that Sanders has that. I live in a caucus state and we Clinton supporters were swamped by Sanders people. I failed to be a delegate to the county convention for the first time in years.
While I still don't support Sanders for other reasons it can't be said that He can't get people into the voting booths.
I don't think Biden can generate that kind of excitement in the base.

Voter suppression is still with us. It helped kill Gore in 2000, Kerry in 2004 and Clinton in 2016. But it is getting better, we are winning in the courts in North Carolina and elsewhere and ballot measure in Florida. If we can keep that fight up and keep winning that waters down Biden's media advantage as a rising tide lifts all boats.

Centrism isn't as important as it once was. One of the reasons Biden is popular with the media is because he's viewed as a centrist willing to buck his party and vote with the republicans. As I noted he's done that on more than one occasion.
But what is centrist? Elizabeth Warren has made several proposals and all of them poll well with a majority of American voters, both democratic and republican. The same can be said of most other candidates that are called leftist.
Many of the proposals are considered leftist because the overton window as moved shockingly right and would have been mainstream in the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
So Biden's "advantage" of being a centrist is not as strong as it once was.

Remember it was healthcare that gave democrats wins in 2018. That topic cost us the house in 2010 and further losses in 2014, 2016. Now it is close to becoming a third rail. Leftist doesn't mean what it used to.
And where will Biden be in the healthcare debate? Even if he only proposes just fixing a ACA, it will still be a repudiation of not only Obama but also himself.

Biden's advantages as a candidate are not as overarching as the once were. At the same time Trump is becoming less formidable as we watch.
You are right that he or any republican will always have a core of supporters, I put that at the inevitable 25% dead enders plus 10 to 15% reflexive republicans. Trump continues to lose ground with almost every demographic and it will take even greater attempts at voter suppression to keep him viable. I see 2020 as being more like 2008 than 2000.

Finally imho the most important election of our lifetime was 2000 and we lost that. Every failure we've had can be traced back to that one.
I'd also like to remind you that there was another important election in 1932, FDR vs Hoover. An elitist leftist with an annoying wife

I think we face an election where we can afford to nominate the best person for the job. Imo that is Warren and not Biden.

Thank you for taking the time to reply. In 2016 I got used to being jumped on by Sanders supporters and now it seems its Biden supporters turn to put the boots to me. Your reply was a refreshing change.

[louis c]

185. FDR and Obama elections had something in common...

Last edited Mon Apr 8, 2019, 05:25 PM - Edit history (1)

...they were both conducted in the midst of an economic meltdown caused by Republican policies. If that happens again, me or you can beat the Republican. We can't count on that except in every 2 or 3 generations.

I don't believe that Biden is ahead just because of name recognition. I'm sure Warren is known by more that 6% of the population. Maybe the polls change, but the only way Biden reduces his lead against Trump is if Democrats go negative on him. If they do, they will be doing Trump's work for him, even if somebody else is nominated. The residual damage will eat into our chances and down we go.

[Buzz cook]

199. The poll at the top of my screen has Harris over Biden by 2 points.

Biden has two strengths as I said. Name recognition, is a favorite of the media, and we can add association with Obama as a third.
I hope you understood my reasoning for why each of the first two are not as powerful or not powerful enough to prefer him over other candidates.

I don't feel I am going negative by pointing out what I consider to be policy failures Biden has made. I remember the acrimony of 2000 and 2008 with a great degree of sadness.

At any rate thank you for taking the time to respond.

[louis c]

200. The poll everywhere esle has Biden ahead of Harris by about 20 points

The DU poll is great.

But I'm going to guess that more people are going to vote in the Primary and the General Election than people on DU.

[Chemisse]

177. You should NOT be offended.

There is nothing wrong with being an old white guy (I am an equally old white woman).

But we are talking about filling a job opening and there are reasons we might not want to fill it with an old white man.

If we can have it, we'd like diversity. White men have dominated our government since its inception. We've only had one president of color and no female presidents.

Old people tend to have health problems and often start to have various memory and thinking problems. It simply makes sense to avoid hiring someone who is pushing 80.

So just keep in mind people are not griping about 'old white men' in general, just in terms of filling the most important job in the nation.

All that said, being white, being male and being old are not disqualifiers, in my mind. If all else is equal, I will go with someone younger and representative of diversity. But rarely is all equal in politics. I don't know who I will vote for in the primaries; I only know I will fully support our Dem candidate.

[beachbum bob]

178. youthful vigor is overcome by age and wisdom, we are about the same age and I kinda chuckle

when we have the young upstarts thinking only they know the way.

did they know the way in 2000 when many voted Nader?
did they know the way in 2016 when voted Stein of not vote at all?


we warned many in this forum that the fight in 2016 was more about who gets to appoint federal judges and many scoffed. Now we see the end result of not supporting the lesser of 2 evils

[louis c]

180. You see, I was brought up in a political age and I learned the hard way...

...that politics is more about math than it is about philosophy.

We can chase the people who have demonstrated over 100 years of statistical, factual knowledge that they underperform their voting strength, or we can attempt to convince the people who always, always vote.

You see, to have the support of people who don't vote is not as valuable as having the support of the people who do vote. Kinda simple, because, in the end, they only count the votes.

[SidDithers]

186. Maybe the Democratic base wants someone more like themselves this time...

Sid

[louis c]

187. Base voters don't win elections on either side...

...the middle 10% does.

Biden appeals to that middle.

Although, I firmly believe that a Biden-Harris ticket is the strongest team we can run in 2020.

[SidDithers]

188. The middle 10% will only vote for an old white guy?...

The middle 10% won't vote for a woman, or a person of colour? So the base has to suck it up, again, to nominate someone who might appeal to the mythical "economically anxious, white working class" voter?

Remember, it was base voters that powered the Blue Wave in the 2018 midterms, electing an unprecedented number of women and POC.

Sid

[louis c]

193. No. they will not vote for Sanders and the rtest are relativley unknown to this 10%...

...We need a candidate they feel comfortable with. I may not like the way that is, but all the polls are pointing that way.

Socialism need not be the issue. Our candidate need not be the issue. Trump needs to be the issue in 2020 and Biden does just that.

[louis c]

194. Democrats beating Democrats does not create a mojority...

...Democrats unseating Republicans and winning open Republican seats, that creates a majority and we did that with moderate candidates winning over moderate Indys and Republicans.

[LAS14]

190. If you are truly "old," (e.g., as old as Biden will be), then you know ...

....why we need to set our sights on younger, more mentally quick individuals. The "white," yeah.... I get it, sort of. But "old?" We're just dealing with the facts of life here.

Yours truly,

An old gal.

[athena]

198. If you don't see a problem with the fact that we haven't had a woman president after 58 elections,

then I have nothing to say to you. Go ahead and mansplain to women about how our desire to be represented at the highest levels of government is offensive to you. Trump is the perfect representative for a country that values selfishness over empathy. It will be especially fitting that Americans’ unwillingness to practice empathy will give us another four years of Trump.

[demosincebirth]

202. I see now, if the orange man win in '20, l'll know who to blame.