Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumThe Reluctance of Bernie Sanders to Release His Damn Tax Returns Is Part of a Bigger Issue
(snip)
The truth, though, is likely much simpler: By failing to release his tax returns despite repeated promises to do so any minute now, Sanders is being the stubborn curmudgeon hes always been.
One possibility behind Sanderss hesitancy is that the returns may show that he made actual money from his book about his 2016 campaign, and is now one of the millionaires, though not billionaires, that he routinely calls out. But the independent senator from Vermont resisted releasing his returns long before he published Our Revolution: A Future to Believe In, a New York Times best-seller. As a protest candidate in the last cycle, he barely campaigned until December 2015, only hitting the trail when the Senate was out of session. He didnt expect to win the nomination, so he didnt bother with releasing what he considered to be mundane tax returns that would just back up his financial disclosures. The louder the media demanded his returns, the more convinced he became that the issue was manufactured trivia.
For Sanders, the trappings of politics and campaigns are by default either corrupting or absurd in comparison to the scale of the true crises facing the American people. Its not about political expediency: He doesnt want his opponents caught up in frivolous debates, either, even when it means giving up some advantage. The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails, he famously said in an October 2015 debate with Hillary Clinton, then went on to add: Let me say something about the media as well. I go around the country, talk to a whole lot of people. Middle class of this country is collapsing. We have 27 million people living in poverty. We have massive wealth and income inequality. Our trade policies have cost us millions of decent jobs. The American people want to know whether were going to have a democracy or an oligarchy as a result of Citizens United. Enough of the emails, lets talk about the real issues.
(snip)
Sanders is a walking version of Winston Churchills famous aphorism about America, except for Sanders, the hesitation is not about doing whats right. Its about doing what the moment trivial as it may seem demands. Bernie Sanders can be counted on to do whats politically smart after trying everything else first.
https://theintercept.com/2019/04/05/bernie-sanders-tax-returns/
I believe this to be a sound analysis.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
True Dough
(17,305 posts)In 3... 2... 1...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,734 posts)The Intercept is a pile of steaming poo. There.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
True Dough
(17,305 posts)to still be steaming?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,734 posts)This is the silliest excuse I've seen yet. He won't release his tax returns because he's protesting the absurd and corrupt trappings of political campaigns? Seriously? If he thinks political campaigns are absurd and corrupt, why is he conducting yet another one? This one made my eyes roll so far that they almost got stuck in the back of my head.
Yeah, right. "I'm not releasing my tax returns because I want to protest the absurdity of political campaigns."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
namahage
(1,157 posts)By the way, did you hear that:
My campaign raised the most money in 24 hours from all 50 states
My campaign raised the most money in the first quarter
My campaign got money from a lot of new email addresses
My campaign staff is less white and male than before
My campaign staff unionizes, so that they will have a defense against sexual harassment
We neutered those pesky superdelegates (after first trying to get them to switch sides)
We got more of the youth vote than Trump and Clinton combined (but I'm totally supportive of Hillary, honest)
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
comradebillyboy
(10,154 posts)What a ridiculous piece of excuse making.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)will know for sure whether the cat is dead or alive until Bernie opens the box.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)What matters is that the cat is still in the box.
Whether there is something embarrassing in the returns or it is simply a matter of stubborn ill-temper, the stance is revelatory concerning a candidate's suitability for the office.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,734 posts)They could be completely ordinary and devoid of problems and are being withheld to protest the absurdity of political campaigns (srsly?), or they could contain something politically damaging. While they're still in the box they're both, and it doesn't help Bernie to keep them in the box because one of the two possibilities is that they contain something politically damaging. Open the box, let's see whether it's one thing or the other.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Such a shame we're stuck in this Universe!!
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)snip==============================
snip========================================
A stubborn curmudgeon who refuses to engage in things that annoy him?
"An American who can always be counted on to do the [politically] right thing after he has tried everything else"?
noun
a bad-tempered person, especially an old one.
bear, bellyacher, complainer, crab, crank, croaker, crosspatch, fusser, griper, grouch, grouser, growler, grumbler, grump, murmurer, mutterer, sourpuss, whiner.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/curmudgeon
As for the "rooting around to find the returns", many might cut BS some slack. He does have three homes to search.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)so curmudgeon is a good word.
Of course being stubborn about a nation's moral obligation to take care of its people, even the least of them in my book is a major virtue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)n. An ill-tempered person full of resentment and stubborn notions.
n. A miser.
n. An ill-tempered (and frequently old) person full of stubborn ideas or opinions.
n. An avaricious, grasping fellow; a miser; a churl.
n. a crusty irascible cantankerous old person full of stubborn ideas
"churlish, miserly fellow, mean man," 1570s, of unknown origin. The suggestion, based on a misreading of a garbled note from Johnson, that it is from French coeur mechant "evil heart" is not taken seriously; nor is the notion [in Century Dictionary] that it is a corruption of corn merchant (with the notion of "one who withholds food" ) . The first syllable may be cur "dog." Liberman says the word "must have been borrowed from Gaelic (and references muigean "disagreeable person" ) , with variant spelling of intensive prefix ker-. Related: Curmudgeonly.
https://books.google.com/books?id=_m7k1Oi-cakC&pg=PA164&dq=is+curmudgeon+a+pejorative&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiu4-ytjbrhAhWEVN8KHfW-BjwQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=is%20curmudgeon%20a%20pejorative&f=false
https://www.etymonline.com/word/curmudgeon#etymonline_v_485
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)whether they are politically popular or not.
Anyone viewing the video that I just posted can see that.
I remember when "liberal" was a good word, then people seemed to run away from it, now it's back in vogue.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
revmclaren
(2,524 posts)is unstable just because they said something about your candidate???
How low can you go?
ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)except one time that I can remember.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #35)
MrsCoffee This message was self-deleted by its author.
Cha
(297,317 posts)being so sly.. didn't work.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)I just found out that Prof. Tribe is a bad lawyer because he has questions about sanders lack of disclosures on a host of issues
I think that Greenwald rags defense of sanders is amusing and raises some issues as to Sanders fitness to serve. I really think the the reason for sanders refusal to release his tax returns is more likely due to Old Towne Media
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Just typical.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)There are issues with sanders listening to advisers and in fact sanders decided to hurt Clinton's general election chances due to his inability to listen to advisers.
Link to tweet
He said, Listen, Tad. You dont understand what its like to stand in front of 20,000 people, and I say [Clintons] name, and theyre screaming holy hell, OK? Devine recalled. I mean, theres no way I can just go out and endorse her, and credibly help those people to come to support her. The only way I can do that is to convince them that this agenda that we talked about throughout the course of the campaign has been adopted in large part by the Democratic Party, and that the next president, even if its Hillary Clinton, is going to work on these issues.
Devine says he did, and still does, respect that view. He just disagreed, feeling that the biggest imperative was for the Clinton campaign to get itself out of the conflict stage and into the consensus stage. Devine had worked on Jimmy Carters 1980 campaign, when they had to fend off Ted Kennedy through the convention, and Michael Dukakis campaign, when they had to do the same with Jesse Jackson. I saw, when those things dont end, the consequences that can have on a campaign, he said. These were experiences that I had that Bernie Sanders never had.
Though he respected Sanders position, he felt that he wasnt being listened to, so the two parted ways. Sanders never got back in touch with him about returning for 2020, Devine says. Though Longabaugh and Mulvey stuck around until February of this year, they, too, eventually arrived at the same place Devine had years earlier: They werent being listened to, so it was time to move on.
Here Devine was correct and sanders' refusal to listen to good advise from someone who understood the issues helped to elect trump
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)means mental illness?
If that's the case any candidate that doesn't listen to his handlers on a particular issue must be mentally ill.
Even though Devine said he didn't agree with Bernie, he still respected his opinion.
He said, Listen, Tad. You dont understand what its like to stand in front of 20,000 people, and I say [Clintons] name, and theyre screaming holy hell, OK? Devine recalled. I mean, theres no way I can just go out and endorse her, and credibly help those people to come to support her. The only way I can do that is to convince them that this agenda that we talked about throughout the course of the campaign has been adopted in large part by the Democratic Party, and that the next president, even if its Hillary Clinton, is going to work on these issues.
Devine says he did, and still does, respect that view. He just disagreed, feeling that the biggest imperative was for the Clinton campaign to get itself out of the conflict stage and into the consensus stage. Devine had worked on Jimmy Carters 1980 campaign, when they had to fend off Ted Kennedy through the convention, and Michael Dukakis campaign, when they had to do the same with Jesse Jackson. I saw, when those things dont end, the consequences that can have on a campaign, he said. These were experiences that I had that Bernie Sanders never had.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)sanders' stunt in refusing to listen to the advice of his adviser did hurt Clinton in the general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)Bernie has made a multitude of changes recommended by his advisers from making his 2020 campaign staff much more representative of America by gender and race to speaking about his background.
Having said that Bernie is committed to his core issues which increasingly resonate with the American People.
There is simply no way to tell as to the effect that would've happened had Bernie listened to Tad, it might have been worse.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)"Bernie Sanders has emerged as the Donald Trump of the left," reads the Washington Post headline above opinion writer Dana Milbank's column.
This piqued my interest, as many WaPo headlines and Milbank posts do.
But what followed wasn't just disappointing, it was ludicrous.
(snip)
From here, Milbank makes an important, if obvious, stipulation: "Sanders isn't Trump in the race-baiting, lender-cheating, fact-avoiding, porn-actress-paying, Putin-loving sense."
Hold on. So really, Sanders and Trump aren't alike in any meaningful way, like how they view humanity, their ethical and moral compasses, their relationship with the truth -- in other words, the most important ways.
(snip)
https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/03/opinions/bernie-sanders-is-no-donald-trump-cupp/index.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Uncle Joe (Reply #56)
Post removed
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)The book income is in public record already. In case any one is wondering sanders has more than $1 million each of the last two years
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
namahage
(1,157 posts)Top 1-percent Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) break (TY 2016) [3] $480,804
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)There could be as much of $10 million in commissions that went to the owner of Old Towne Media, LLC. I would like to know if Jane Sanders owns an interest
sanders has reported his separate income on his senate reports but the release of sanders tax returns will show if Jane sanders owns Old Towne Media.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mcar
(42,334 posts)is not sound analysis. It is the lamest of excuses.
Interesting this column comes up today when some in this forum are still slamming HRC (who, BTW, is a private citizen) for not releasing speech transcripts.
The double standard will never die, I fear.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)pnwmom asked why on this thread and I have wondered why as well and then by chance just googling Bernie's name I found this article.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128755958
I have been at the office most of the day and haven't even seen anything about HRC.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
mcar
(42,334 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dem4decades
(11,296 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
George II
(67,782 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
sheshe2
(83,791 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
dlk
(11,569 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Some people need a hobby.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Last cycle, most papers did not vet sanders on policy. One paper did and it was very telling
Link to tweet
sanders will be asked about his tax returns and Old Towne Media if he sits for a real interview with a major newspaper
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mountain grammy
(26,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Eliot Rosewater
(31,112 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)nothing. I just wish he would come out and say that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)This is really funny. Russia is doing its best to defend sanders
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)The part that makes people suspicious of the no votes on sanctions, Old Towne Media, Tad Devine, etc.
I wish he would just prove the suspicions wrong already.
Every day and every excuse puts his campaign one foot deeper in the ground.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)"Sanderss refusal to bend on any issue, no matter how minor, may be endearing to his most passionate supporters, but hes doing both them and the country a disservice. An unbending approach to minutiae harms not only him, but his movement and begins to look selfish and entitled. A million people have raised their hands to volunteer to make Sanders president. They deserve more from him."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Politicub
(12,165 posts)I dont get it. He could put the mystery of his 1040s to rest in an instant.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
SidDithers
(44,228 posts)in 2020 it's going to be Greenwald and The Intercept.
Sid
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BlueFlorida
(1,532 posts)More sycophantic court-jesting by the Intercept. Greenwald must be smiling.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mike Nelson
(9,959 posts)
they're on the way! Hopefully there won't be a summary... or redactions... then, the issue can be put to an end.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mountain grammy
(26,624 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Link to tweet
?s=20
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden