Why can't Sanders realize that he shouldn't be running?

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

Doesn't he know that it was his candidacy in 2016, and the damage that he did to Clinton's chances, that allowed trump to eke out an electoral college win?

And doesn't he know that his candidacy this time is helping trump again?

Doesn't he know that the repugs will paint him as a firebrand socialist, or worse?

Look at his age and his health issues.

Look at the fact that he wasn't even a member of the democratic party for most of his career.

What makes him think that he deserves the democratic nomination? Is it his vanity?

There are many other democrats who would have a better chance to beat trump.

Sanders is creating a lot of anxiety and despair within the democratic party.

[HerbChestnut]

1. He's winning.

That alone should tell everyone that he SHOULD be running.

[gembaby1]

25. He's winning against the balkanized middle in the Democratic primaries.

Not so sure he’ll be winning in the general against Donald Trump and his legion of Republican scumbags.

[40RatRod]

73. agree

[John Fante]

205. The legion of Republican voters that haven't garnered more

that 47% of the popular vote since 2004? Not worried about them in the slightest.

[leftieNanner]

28. We shall see

Two tiny nearly all white states doesn't count as winning to me. Lots more primaries to come.

I can't stand him, personally. Sorry. Just MHO.

[enid602]

31. His win

His win is our loss. That should mean something to him.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

41. No, you're bein WAY too logical! The more Bernie increases the lead, the more he needs to quit!!

Hope that helps!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[wnylib]

98. There is a HUGE difference between

"winning" in primaries among people on the same side of the political divide and winning in the general election.

Right now, Sanders is taking advantage of split votes among the members of a political party that he does not belong to in order to take the lead. That will not be the setting for the general election.

Electoral college votes in FL, large parts of the South, most of the Midwest, and parts of the West will not go to a pseudo-Democrat who identifies with socialism. Ain't gonna happen, not even if Sanders gets the most votes in those regions in the primaries. Primaries are not the general.

In states that have crossover voting in primary elections, Republicans will vote for Sanders in order to 1) divide the Dem party, and 2) give Trump a candidate he can defear with scare propaganda about socialism and communism.

Warren is a different story. She IS a Dem, for one thing. She joined the Dem party long before running for president, so it was a genuine conversion, based on principles, not on opportunism . She is more to the left than other candidates (except Sanders) but does not identify with the term of socialism.

She would have a better chance in the general than Sanders would. Her chances would go DOWN in the general if she aligned herself with Sanders. She is smarter than he is, and is more upbeat. She is a party member.

How can a non-Dem like Sanders be the face of a party he does not belong to? A party that he is highjacking and re-naming to suit himself?

[NurseJackie]

143. ⭐⭐⭐ Beautifully explained! Thank you! ⭐⭐⭐

[Doremus]

147. Sanders has a large independent base

More than any other candidate. Are you suggesting that someone else, with LESS crossover appeal, will somehow get more indie votes in the general?

If a voter is so conservative as to prefer voting for trump than ANY (D), were kidding ourselves to think if we somehow offered a more republican-lite candidate they would have voted for them.

[wnylib]

149. So if Sanders has such a large Indie

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 09:56 AM - Edit history (1)

base, why didn't he run on that instead of pretending to be a Dem? If your answer is that he gains from the established name and structure of the party, then you make my case for me that Sanders is a pseudo-Democrat who is highjacking the party as the Tea Party did with Republicans. That leads to more divisiveness in the nation, with fascism vs socialism for 2020.

I personally tend to be a little left of center. I like Warren because she is strong, smart, has achieved some economic improvements from within the party. She can fight. She is strongly principled. She listens to people instead of preaching at them. She works within the system as a reformer, not as a destroyer from the outside. She can be a uniter. Sanders relishes being a divider. He is hostile and angry from the left, as Trump is from the right.

But, what I think the nation most needs at this time is someone with the experience and knowledge of Biden to clean up the Trump mess throughout our national governing system. But I also know that Biden is someone who is good in office, but not as good at campaigning for office. He would need a good running mate to help him as a campaigner and to deal with the tag of "corrupt" that Trump would try to put on him. Either Klobuchar or Warren could help Biden with that.

Yeah, a Warren and Biden team does not sound compatible. Neither did Kennedy and Johnson in 1960. But there is a lot of activism for women in politics today. A Biden/Warren team could unite center and left and boost women as well as clean up the Trump mess.

Can"t you just hear Warren crushing Trump's attempts to tag Biden with corruption? Throwing Trump's own corruption back at him, like she did with Bloomberg? i can.

Klobuchar could do that, too, and seems more compatible with Biden. But Biden and Warren would unite center and left. They could be a winning team.

[Doremus]

150. If any of the senators don't get the nomination

they’re better utilized in the senate. Any of them can be of more benefit there than as second fiddle.

It’s taken 40 years of incrementalism from moderates to bring us to the brink of disaster. We aren’t going to fix what ails us by doing more if the same.

It’s way past time for a new strategy. Either Elizabeth or Bernie can do that for us.

[wnylib]

157. Second fiddle? Sure. After all, Johnson

had no role as second fiddle, did he? Or more recently, Biden was only second fiddle to Obama, with no input?

I could see Warren as "first fiddle" but not Sanders. And be would never play second fiddle to anyone. Too much ego.

But if you think that our Senators who do not win would serve better in the Senate, then why do you suggest pairing 2 Senators together? My suggestion pairs up only one. And it would put the "second fiddle" in place to be the next "first fiddle."

if Sanders did win both the primary and the general, he would be a disaster once in office. Who would he appoint to his cabinet and to the numerous vacancies Trump has left open? What criteria would he use? Who would he get to work with him in the coalitions necessary to govern? He is rigidly ideological. Governing in a democracy requires compromises. Or do you think that rejecting incrementalism means rejecting democracy in a my way or the highway form of government?

Warren, OTOH, is principled, but not ideologically rigid. She can work with people. Sanders cannot.

We need to do more than just get rid of Trump. We need to stabilize the nation or end up losing it.

[wnylib]

160. PS

This is my prediction for the 2020 outcome aftermath, given the divisions in the country.

If Trump wins, there is likely to be violence, from Trump and his RW supporters as well as from people who resist them.

If Sanders wins, there will be violence from the RW, egged on by Trump & company.

Either outcome will mean, at the best, civil unrest across the country. At worst, a civil war that will be physical, not verbal.

Before going that route, think of what it means in specific detail. Look around the world. And then think what alternatives there are.

[MoonRiver]

158. Bill Clinton and Barack Obama were both centrists.

Between the two they gave us 16 years of prosperity and progressive policies. I think centrism is the way to go.

[wnylib]

161. I think centrism, at the moment, is

the way to go, BUT, with a move toward more progressive changes. Change is inevitable and both left and right are restless for it. Some economic changes are necessary if we are to survive as a nation and compete in the world.

Both Clinton and Obama worked for universal health care. We need to go farther on what they started. Economically, we could benefit from becoming a world leader in renewable energy. Other nations are now passing us by on that. A clean, green, eco-friendly economy provides jobs in producing it as replacements for jobs lost while energy economies change. And gives us a better world for ourselves and future generations. A win-win.

We need stabilizing economic regulations to safeguard markets.

We need to address so many problems in the nation today, for present and future. Poverty and homelessness as income inequality worsens. Infrastructure. With a little creativity and effort, we could provide jobs with infrastructure improvements and affordable housing in the process.

Eliminate private, for-profit prisons that encourage imprisonment for gain instead of for justice. They are corporate welfare systems that put government funding in the position of attacking personal freedoms instead if protecting them as the constitution requires. Private prisons, fire, police, schools, and military have no public accountability and become political tools for racism, political persecution, and dictatorially minded politicians.

Privatization of public services is corporate welfare at the economic and social expense of middle and working class people. It also translates into minority suppression of rights.

There are so many mire things we need to do, but cannot address with sharpening political divisions.

That is why I favor a coalition of our progressive and centrist wings.

[MoonRiver]

169. Well said! I totally agree!

[Bettie]

177. Do you really think that Sanders as a third party candidate would have

been a good thing? Really?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

179. Finally, some sense!! I applaud you...

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[wnylib]

193. No, I do not. My point is that he

runs as a Dem because he knows he could not make it on his own, without a party structure. He is an opportunidt, not a real Dem. He uses the party to advance his own agenda.

He would not get enough recognition for himself, e.g. presence in a debate, without pretending to be a Dem party member.

But even as a Dem nominee, he would not win a general election. He has divided the party in an attempt to coerce party acceptance with an implied, unstated threat that his followers would sit out the general if he is not chosen. That might even be true. But he woukd not win the general anyway, so why worry about that threat?

He might yet become a 3rd party spoiler if he does not become the nominee. But the people gained from a broader candidate would offset that. We still would have a better chance without Sanders as the party representative.

[Baked Potato]

178. I agree with Biden/Warren

I like her demeanor and fierceness and I think she can be formidable with Biden.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

180. I like the "Warren" part!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[Baked Potato]

192. Warren/Harris would wake them up!

[wnylib]

194. Don't count on Warren as a Sanders

running mate. They would be like oil and water on a team. Not viable. And she knows it.

[lanlady]

201. very well said wnylib

especially the last sentence.

[greenman3610]

46. he has a plurality against 3 moderates who have split a much larger section of the pie

[HerbChestnut]

71. According to polls, Bernie beats every candidate in head-to-head matchups.

Which means those 3 moderates don't make up some kind of monolithic voting bloc. Voters are more fluid than that.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

184. Truth!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[pnwmom]

56. He's getting about half the numbers he got last time, when he lost. Not a good trend.

And, before you claim it's because there's a larger field, I'll give you my answer. There could be 100 other candidates running, and there would be nothing to stop loyal Bernie people from voting for him again, in numbers as high as before. But they aren't. Half of them have moved on to non-Bernie pastures.

[Warpy]

94. So far, yes, and you'd think the mushy middle would get the message

but no conservative has ever admitted the possibility that s/he might be wrong about the party taking a conservative turn for all these years that they've been defeated. That was Koch money talking, not rank and file voters.

I take no joy from this, I think if he does get the nomination he'll have to be very careful about his VP pick.

Sanders is not at the top of my list. Neither his is opposite, Bloomberg. I'd vote for either in the general.

[grantcart]

100. Lol winning is 30%. Typical Sanders devoteeism. All devotion to simeine

who is running at 60% of his support from 4 years ago, who has no chance of getting a majority of the Democratic Party and zero chance of winning a GE.

[trueblue2007]

109. NO HE ISN'T. He BARELY won 2 states so far. That is hardly W I N N I N G !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ahoysrcsm]

138. umm... no... as of today...

Sanders is in second place in delegates. First place goes to a Mayor from Indiana... A Mayor... from Indiana...

Good luck in Nevada and South Carolina!!!

[brush]

159. For now he is. Let's wait for results from other than 2, tiny nearly all-white states.

[Gothmog]

207. Trump is trying to pick his general election opponent

Link to tweet

[jalan48]

2. Because millions of Americans support him and want him to run. It's not just about Sanders,

it's about his supporters as well.

[CentralMass]

3. Its possible that being up in the polls by double digits and having 7 million people contributing to

his campaign might have convinced that he is doing the right thing.

[evertonfc]

4. he's been running since 1971

never had a real job. Entitled.

[Boulevardier]

139. Being a mayor, a congressman, or a senator is a real job.

Rightist talking point noted, though.

[barbtries]

5. ego.

one of the reasons i despise him and hope i won't have to vote for him in November

[gembaby1]

33. I find him to be an arrogant and entitled man.

He has had a heart attack and still he is running, even though, two or three years down the line in that job (IF he wins) he could be dead. What then, geniuses?

[jimfields33]

43. The VP steps in

Has happened 3 other times in history.

[gembaby1]

57. Wonderful!

Is that really what you want?

[nobuddy]

69. President Nina Turner won't miss a beat.

Don’t worry.

[jimfields33]

111. I doubt anyone would. No guarantees

We had a 46 year old president die in office. Nobody would have projected that.

[gembaby1]

119. Of course not. JFK was assassinated.

But you already know what Bernie’s health is like.

[redstatebluegirl]

202. I agree, his ego gets in the way of his good judgement.

His followers are another story.

[llmart]

52. I agree.

He's been around for a long time and some of us have seen his egotism over and over again. It's not a pretty picture for a president. I'm so over those who have to be the center of attention all the time and forget who they're working for.

[MFM008]

6. Ralph Naderism

ego.

[Ellen Forradalom]

18. Yes.

Same crowd supporting him, too

[CentralMass]

61. He is leading by 10 points nationally - RCP averages. Same crowd ?

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/us/2020_democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

[Dem4Life1102]

27. Could be

But for now I’ll give Sanders more credit than that.

[William769]

7. from a Kenucky Hillbilly

[sheshe2]

24. ...

[handmade34]

44. second that

from a Vermont woodchuck

[Meadowoak]

75. From another Kentucky hillbilly.

👍

[rzemanfl]

8. Don't disagree, but I have to wash socks. n/t

[Thomas Hurt]

9. This isn't about the candidates, this is about the voters.

If Sanders wins the nomination and then goes on to lose, there is no one to blame but Democratic voters.

[Perseus]

14. "and then goes on to lose"...you can say this about any of the Democrats then

No one here has a crystal ball, we are facing more than trump, we are facing the GOP propaganda machine aided by the Russian hackers and their propaganda machine and we are here eating our own...I think this helps the enemy.

We should be asking questions on "How are Democrats preparing to combat the hacking, the propaganda? instead of bickering because my candidate is better then yours.

[Thomas Hurt]

34. 40% of eligible voters don't vote, it is all excuses. We get out the vote or we don't

and yes, any of the Democrats can go on to lose and the bickering is a waste of time and what the GOP wants.

[58Sunliner]

66. Agreed.

[Kerrycrat]

84. Oh Bernie folk will find plenty to blame

Everything but Bernie himself.

We’ve heard for 4 years that “Bernienwould have won”

Well, Bernie, show us how you would have won.

[Perseus]

120. You mean, like Bernie is being blamed before he even gets the nomination? All these assumptions?

I am not even a Bernie supporter at this time, and I am appalled about all these negativity and attacks against him, it really is disgusting.

by the way, Buttigieg, whom I think is extremely intelligent and I happen to like, did very poorly at the debate, not sure who told him to go on the attack instead of trying to sell his agenda, bad advise...

[Kerrycrat]

164. I think he felt he had to answer Klobuchar

She’s been going after him for a while with a decent amount of hostility, and twisting of facts. I’m thinking he felt the need to answer that.

There are some starting to question if she’s homophobic. She won’t even shake his hand

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

185. Had not heard that... TBH, that doesn't sound like the Amy I know.

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

182. Dont be dismayed... all these attacks against Bernie is PRECISELY why he's winnin...

it's the Baseless Bernie Bashing Backlash that has propelled Bernie to new heights in the polls. It's why Bernie's glidin' and Joe's slidin'!! So rejoice... I tell 'em to keep it up!!





Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[DENVERPOPS]

121. okay, okay, okay

I have the solution to everyone's love or dislike of Bernie......

The dems kick him out of the Dem Primary, Let him go and join the Republican Primary and run agains't Trump........

If he wins, there you have it. If he loses, there you have it.......

If he loses against Trump, the dems can then go on to elect someone to run against Trump/Putin.........

[Perseus]

10. Why can't people realize that this war against Sanders is not going to change minds

its not going to do anything positive, but it will have an opposite effect.

Can we please stop this war on any of the candidates, the real enemy of everyone is in the White House today.

[Cornus]

35. +++++

Completely agree. I just don't understand all of the negativity here against Sanders.

[keithbvadu2]

95. There is also the war by Sanders and his Bernie bros.

There is also the war by Sanders and his Bernie bros.

It's not just one way.

[Perseus]

123. And how is that Bernie's fault? How do we know who is controlling these people?

The "Tea Party" was controlled by big money republicans, not by the GOP themselves, but of course the politicians welcomed the support, but the Koch brothers controlled the tea party.

How do we know who is controlling these so called "Bernie Bros"? So to try to pin it on Sanders is disingenuous, if the same was happening on the Biden side all Biden supporters would be saying the same thing "Biden cannot control them, who knows if they are real Biden supporters and not Russian trolls?", or something like that.

We all need to focus on the real enemy of the country and the world, and that is the creature and the GOP, that is where our efforts should be spent, not bickering between us, it serves no purpose.

[PatSeg]

189. We can look at Bernie's campaign staff

and see who is setting the tone. No candidate can possibly be responsible for everything that every supporter does, but that candidate can control his/her staff and make a persistent effort to subdue the behavior of the supporters. If he wants to be leader of the free world, he should show leadership skills.

[Bonobo]

132. A few dozen people trading Twitter-worthy barbs on an obscure website is not a war.

Let's keep perspective.

This is where people come to act demonstratively about their belief system to prop up their versions of how they see themselves.

It's ego feeding/defending - a Twitter-like mob behavior with a veneer of political savvy.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

186. It DOES have the opposite effect... it's called the "Baseless Bernie Bashing Backlash"!! I LOVE IT!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[zackymilly]

11. And right below your comment Nate Silver says Amy has a less than 1 in 100 chance of winning. n/t

[jmg257]

12. I think its all the support he is getting. And he wants to win.

And darn it if those pesky polls say he's doing pretty darn well.

Hard to quit while ur ahead.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

187. Yes, it's because Bernie is the Champion of common working class and low-income folks on Main Street

and speaks to THEIR issues, while Bernie tells those on Wall Street, essentially, to go fuck themselves!! The party for the top 1% is OOOOOVERRR ... time to stop the CORPORATE socialism and for them to pay the bill!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[ibegurpard]

13. Because a ton of people support him

[Jirel]

15. Pfft!

He’s in the lead.
He’s one of two candidates with real plans.
He’s one of 2 candidates whose platform and the Democratic Party’s are actually in sync.
He’s an awesome campaigner.
He’s got more energy at 78 than the youngsters.

He’s doing exactly what he should be doing. The sour grapes aren’t convincing.

[Perseus]

124. I love the fact that Warren supporters come out and defend Sanders

I know that Warren supporters want Warren to win, but I love the civility and the fact telling about the situation, its very refreshing.

I have also seen some Biden supporters who also seem to have had enough about the bickering and have said nice things.

I hope the rest takes that example to heart and we can end the bickering once and for all to allow us to concentrate on the real danger we are facing, trump and Putin. I was going to say "the Beauty & the Beast", but my brain through spikes at that thought, it is actually "The Beast and the Puppet".

[CaliforniaPeggy]

16. Because he's been running for so long, that he hardly knows how to do anything else. n/t

[CentralMass]

23. Lets see. Weve heard that he isnt winning by a lanslide and should dtop out and make way for

Bloomberg. Then we had the I'm so tired of hearing about Bernie Sanders. Now this.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

30. I don't think he should drop out for anyone. And I was mostly kidding!

It was the first thing that came into my head.

[Celerity]

48. +1

[CentralMass]

62. Sorry. I teplied to the wrong comment. Hello back and good luck. : -)

[KayF]

17. he may take issue with some of your assumptions

i don't want to speak for him but...

[Sherman A1]

19. So

Should everyone just get out of the way of your preferred candidate?

If Sanders can convince enough people that his vision is what they want, then he will win, if not he will not. Just like the other candidates.

[Steven Maurer]

20. I'm very much not for Sanders.... but...

He has the right to compete for the affections of the Democratic plebiscite as anyone else.

The respect I accord to him if he wins will not be respect of naked pandering with he well knows are politically and/or mathematically impossible proposals, but the respect for the majority of Democrats who voted for him anyway.

[wnylib]

140. Why does he have the right to

compete for Dem voters in the primary? He is not a Dem.

[Steven Maurer]

174. He now **IS** a Democrat

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/05/700524861/bernie-sanders-signs-democratic-party-loyalty-pledge-for-2020-run

Bernie Sanders Signs Democratic Party Loyalty Pledge For 2020 Run

Vermont independent Sen. Bernie Sanders has signed a loyalty pledge, promising to run and govern as a Democrat if he wins the presidency in 2020, a new requirement for candidates that largely grew out of his own 2016 campaign.

The pledge Sanders signed was given to all active Democratic presidential campaigns last week. It affirms to the DNC chairman that they "are a Democrat ... are a member of the Democratic Party; will accept the Democratic nomination; and will run and serve as a member of the Democratic Party."

[NurseJackie]

21. America will never elect an admitted and avowed Socialist. Period.

This is bad for the party and bad for our nation.

[Kurt V.]

36. Being left behind can very frustrating. i get it

[LonePirate]

42. Well, America elected an avowed traitor and racist imbecile. A Socialist doesn't seem so bad.

[NurseJackie]

58. Oh yeah... He did it all in his own.

Gmafb.

[womanofthehills]

50. He sure has the biggest crowds and is doing well in the polls

Many think Democratic Socialism is a good thing. How bad is he for wanting healthcare for all, a decent living wage and stopping the never ending wars. It's been socialism for the rich for way too long.

[Woodycall]

54. Harry Truman on Socialism

Socialism is a scare-word they have hurled at every advance the people have made in the last 20 years. Socialism is what they called public power. Socialism is what they called social security. Socialism is what they called farm price supports. Socialism is what they called bank deposit insurance. Socialism is what they called the growth of free and independent labor organizations. Socialism is their name for almost anything that helps all the people.

HARRY S. TRUMAN, speech, Oct. 10, 1952

[calimary]

68. Good quote! I'm keeping it.

[Cha]

65. From BS in 2011..

Link to tweet

[keithbvadu2]

97. Keeper!

[cheezmaka]

74. I agree...

what's scarier is that America may "prefer" the avowed traitor and racist over an avowed Socialist. I believe Bernie is "too far left" to pull in the moderates and independents in the General Election.

[IronLionZion]

96. FDR just didn't exist. He didn't win 4 times. It was all just a leftist dream

Truman didn't exist either.

[NurseJackie]

103. LOL

[IronLionZion]

116. LBJ never got us Medicare

it was all just a pipe dream.

[TwilightZone]

131. That's the appropriate response.

FDR was not only *not* an avowed socialist, he'd explode when people tried to paint him as one.

[NurseJackie]

145. Apparently they think we're stupid... but we're not.

FDR was not only *not* an avowed socialist, he'd explode when people tried to paint him as one.

There can be no other reason for them to continue to make such absurd statements and comparisons. FDR was not a Socialist. Bernie is not FDR.

That's the appropriate response.

I know, right? Apparently they think we're stupid... but we're not.

[TwilightZone]

130. Neither of them were avowed socialists.

Particularly FDR. He shunned socialism.

"That vision included one truly insistent message: He was not a socialist.

Though he never used the term socialism in his speech, Roosevelt’s anger at those who accused him of ideological motivations, of applying an economic theory that was anathema to the United States, exploded from the lectern"

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/08/16/democrats-socialism-fdr-roosevelt-227622

It amazes me how many people make the silly claim that he was not only a socialist, but an open and vocal one. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[IronLionZion]

146. Bernie is not a socialist and isn't trying to seize the means of production

Neither is Liz Warren. Swedish Social Democrats have called him out on it for using the Democratic Socialist term incorrectly.

Deplorables still claim the Nazis were socialist because they were "National Socialist German Workers Party"

[LongtimeAZDem]

170. "Bernie Wants You to Own More of the Means of Production"

https://jacobinmag.com/2019/10/bernie-wants-you-to-own-more-of-the-means-of-production

[brush]

156. FDR was an avowed capitalist.

[IronLionZion]

166. So is Trump

Even the most conservative Dems would agree there are some differences in how FDR did capitalism than Trump.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Deal

The New Deal was a series of programs, public work projects, financial reforms, and regulations enacted by President Franklin D. Roosevelt in the United States between 1933 and 1939. It responded to needs for relief, reform, and recovery from the Great Depression. Major federal programs and agencies included the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC), the Civil Works Administration (CWA), the Farm Security Administration (FSA), the National Industrial Recovery Act of 1933 (NIRA) and the Social Security Administration (SSA). They provided support for farmers, the unemployed, youth and the elderly. The New Deal included new constraints and safeguards on the banking industry and efforts to re-inflate the economy after prices had fallen sharply. New Deal programs included both laws passed by Congress as well as presidential executive orders during the first term of the presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt.

Government controlled the means of production to provide employment for a lot of public works, infrastructure, rural electrification, and propped up farmers at a level much higher than anything Bernie Sanders is proposing. Truman wanted national health insurance. Sounds a lot like Medicare for all to me. Trump subsidizes farmers to fill the gaps in their revenue where the capitalist markets have left them behind.

Bernie is for regulated capitalism with strong social programs. He's not a socialist. He's not trying to seize the means of production. He's been misusing the Democratic Socialist label. It's one of many reasons why I support Liz Warren instead. An orange can call itself an apple and campaign on it for president but it will still be an orange.

[brush]

167. Oh please. The point is FDR was an avowed capitalist not an avowed socialist as some are inferring.

[IronLionZion]

168. He used a lot of tax dollars for his avowed capitalism

His Social Security program is still the largest part of our government's budget.

And I'm all for a heavily taxed and regulated capitalist system that works for everyone and no one gets left behind because they can't pay for life saving medical treatments. We don't have to call it socialism.

[brush]

171. So am I but it's not called democratic socialism.

You do know Sanders has been calling himself a socialist for decades, right?

Sanders regularly appeared on "The Thom Hartman" radio show for years and proudly called himself a "socialist" without the word "democratic" in front of it.

In more recent years he's added the word "democratic" in front of it to soften the negativity of it as he became interested in using the Democratic Party to run for president. But video and ample other evidence is out there of him touting socialism. He should've said years ago he was a "social democrat" in the Nordic model if that is really what he meant but he's stuck with the baggage-laden, self-appellation of "democratic socialist" when the social democracies of Europe are actually capitalist countries, not democratic socialist countries.

Labeling himself a democratic socialist was a mistake not just because there actually is a Democratic Socialist Party in the US which actively advocates actual socialism, historically there's never been a sustained, successful deployment of socialism in any country. And as I said, the social democracies of Europe are actually highly regulated and highly taxed capitalist countries with strong, robust safety nets provided for by the high taxes—single payer healthcare, free college, etc..

[IronLionZion]

172. Correct, he's using the wrong term

Actual Scandinavian political parties have told him this and he's been doing it so long that he made a choice to continue. His mistake is in how he's labeled it. Not a good way to market his policies, which are pretty mainstream for Europe.

[brush]

173. Yes. Socialism, even with the word democratic in front of it is a loser in present-day America...

what with the Obama-initiated economic recovery in it's 11th year now. Many will continue to be conned into thinking it's trump's recovery so with unemployment low and the market high, someone touting socialism is the last person they're going to vote for.

If there was another great recession maybe, but not now.

[cheezmaka]

204. I Agree...

Too many independents and moderates are too patriotic to support avowed "socialism" (me included). I really believe if Bernie got the nomination Trump will certainly be re-elected....

[Autumn]

22. A lot of people support him, there's no reason why he shouldn't run. Far more support him than

some of the candidates, like the one in you avatar. The voters will decide if he deserves the democratic nomination. Polls show him winning against Trump, that's not a problem. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he hasn't the right to run.

[Doitnow]

108. I believe the second choice of all the other candidates have chosen Bernie.

[aikoaiko]

26. What makes him think that he deserves the democratic nomination? The voters and supporters

I'm sorry for your anxious feelings.

[Doitnow]

112. Maybe because he is reminding the Dems what they say what they stand for and should start doing

Something about it.

[aikoaiko]

115. I think you're right.

[Cornus]

39. Nice

This is the sort of negativity I noted in my post above.

[Zolorp]

40. Nice

I see the picture at the bottom of your posts and never bother to read them.

[Kurt V.]

32. Sanders is not responsible for trump being POTUS. There were lots of factors and being

a witness to it is not one of them

[thesquanderer]

37. re: "There are many other democrats who would have a better chance to beat trump."

Though Klobuchar is not among them. So maybe she shouldn't be running? I say we just leave it up to the voters to decide in the upcoming contests.

[guillaumeb]

38. Welcome to DU,

but I find these arguments to be unconvincing.

[David__77]

45. I am glad he's running

My plan is to vote for him. These election things sure can get pluralistic!

Candidate sometimes even have a mind of their own.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

195. LOL... ME TOO!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[underthematrix]

47. He should have dropped out after his heart attack. But like all the other candidates

EGO and the lure of power keep folks in the game.

BEING PRESIDENT is extremely stressful.

[TNNurse]

49. I promised to not say anything negative about the Democratic candidates.

We do not need to be supplying soundbites for the GOP.

I will say again, Bernie is not Democrat. He runs as one when it benefits him. That is not necessarily a negative, it just is.

[Skittles]

51. no, he does not realize

not at all

it's all about him

[krakfiend]

55. Hmmmm....

Yesterday I mentioned that there sure are a lot of people on here showing doubt, confusion hatred and animosity. Perhaps there are fake Democrats on here. Today there is news that Russia is stepping up it's game of helping trump, and trump trying to hide it. It's post like this that makes me believe that the russians are already here.

[Rebl2]

59. I find

him to be full of himself (like trump) and selfish. He reminds me of the grumpy old man that yells at people to get off his lawn.

[karin_sj]

60. In 2016, I was a big Bernie supporter...

And I was very upset that he didn't win the primary and become our candidate. In subsequent years, I was also upset that so many people at DU seemed to pick on him so much whenever his name was mentioned.

Now I just have an uneasy feeling about him. I'm really worried that he won't be able to win the election because of all the reasons that people have put out there. I will definitely vote for him if he is the nominee, but I just have a queasy feeling that Trump could get a second term if we don't get someone more moderate as our candidate. I really wish that he would consider having a more moderate vice president to bring along additional voters. I remember how angry I was when Hillary picked Tim Kaine as her running mate. I wished that she had picked someone more progressive. I'm also worried about the election interference that is and will continue to take place. Whenever I think of the upcoming election, I get a sinking, worrying feeling in my stomach.

[calimary]

81. Yep. Memories of McGovern waft through my head.

He was a sure thing, too. The young people were simply mad for him and his very left-leaning positions on the issues. They were absolutely IN LOVE! He was the hippest thing of the year! His name was all you heard. My Lord did they gush!

And he went on to lose 49 states. Forty-nine states! He even lost his own state (South Dakota). Only state he carried was Massachusetts.

[volstork]

63. I don't think he cares.

He's interested in self-promotion. He's not even a Democrat, and I can't understand why we continue to let him co-opt our party nomination process.

[Cha]

64. BS' own words in 2011

Last edited Fri Feb 21, 2020, 07:01 AM - Edit history (1)

But, he explains, he is not interested in the White House. "I would likely end up causing a right-wing extremist to be president of the United States. That is not something I would be happy to do," he said.
Then he added for emphasis: "It would likely be a futile and losing campaign. That would not be too smart."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/21/bernie-sanders-socialist-vermont-interview

[radical noodle]

70. There's one thing he got right

Hey Cha!

[Cha]

77. yeah he did

Aloha, rad!

[cheezmaka]

88. He actually told on himself... LOL

Hey Cha! It's been a long time...

[Cha]

90. Yes.. where you been, cheezmaka?!

[cheezmaka]

196. Real busy..

Working and raising my 2 "little ones"...LOL

[Cha]

197. Good on you.. real life!

Exciting time Fighting for our Democracy

[cheezmaka]

198. You're right...

We're back in the fight!

[Fiendish Thingy]

67. Why can't Bloomberg realize he shouldn't be running?

There, fixed it for you.

[Orrex]

72. It's not an either/or proposition

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

181. HAHAHAHA!! YESSSSSS!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[apcalc]

76. HE KNOWS.

[DarleenMB]

78. Thank you!

It's good to know I'm not the only one who sees this.

[milestogo]

79. Why can't you realize that he doesn't see it from your point of view?

And neither do millions of other people.

[bitterross]

80. Because he's as narcissistic as Trump.

He displays all the same characteristics. He thinks he is correct and everyone else is wrong.

He is a "My way or the highway" person. JUST LIKE TRUMP!

That is not the type of person we need as a candidate or President.

[nobuddy]

82. I don't know why the front runner is running

[wisteria]

83. Ego

[ALBliberal]

85. I supported him in the last primary and wholeheartedly

switched to Clinton in the general. That being said... my 23 year old son loves him and will be voting for the first time because he supports him. I don’t think we can dismiss his candidacy out of hand. He resonates with young people and many liberals. Maybe he personally feels that his candidacy will swell voter ranks. At any rate we have got to take him and his supporters seriously.

[seta1950]

86. Yes

I totally agree his vanity is going to lose this election for all of us, when the stakes are so high

[the_sly_pig]

87. I'm voting for the democratic candidate in November...

I don't care who it is.

[emmaverybo]

89. Anxiety and despair, yes. Joy to his revolutionaries and progressive believers, but not to

the rest of us. And the rest of us are a lot of people.

[Fran2020]

91. Of course Sanders should be running!

Look at all the people voting for him. To those of us that support him, we're glad to have him in the field. Other candidates can run too. Whoever gets the most votes wins and goes on to beat Trump.

[Gore1FL]

92. I am not sure I know most of those things.

Can you back the assertions with data and supportive links from credible sources?

They always paint Democrats as a firebrand socialist. They don't know what the word means. They just know they are afraid of it.

[BigOleDummy]

93. I actually

agree with Bernies platform. I like him in other words. I worry mightily though about his chances in the general election. "Socialist" to way too many people equals "communism" and .......... anyway.

My other and main beef about him too, is his staff. Way too mean spirited for my taste and ultimately he's responsible for them. If these are the kind of people he chooses to run his campaign then WHO will he pick as a 1. running mate, 2. his cabinet if he does pull off a win?

He keeps saying, "oh, that terrible tweet was by a staff member or fan but I had nothing to do with it" Ultimately, in my opinion, he DOES. One word from him and that stuff would stop. It hasn't and won't I'm afraid.

[awesomerwb1]

99. His ego

It’s his last shot at ultimate power. He will do anything to win.
They will “bern” the whole thing down if they don’t win.

[Ahpook]

101. How in the heck do you come

to the conclusion that Sanders running for pres ultimately hurt Hillary?

I can't imagine this in any way shape or form other than his numbers are high at the moment and you are spooked. I also can't imagine anyone that wanted Sanders in 2016 actually voting for Trump because..... Hillary. That is a load of BS! I was for Sanders but did vote Hillary and so did everyone else I know.

Is YOUR candidate not getting the numbers? We better tighten this up or we are going to get another 4 years of Trump.

On edit: This country doesn't even know what a socialist is. I can't even imagine how many say socialism is bad, but gleefully accept their Medicare and SS benefits. I bet they drive the roads and visit parks or on occasion need an officer for help.

We need you to help speak truth, not spread more division

[bucolic_frolic]

102. There must be an explanation

Socialists are committed to undermining and changing capitalism; American sovereignty is the foundation of our economic system. The USSR became capitalist but elites simply morphed into oligarchs; some are still in power. The only time they were our allies was when they were overrun by Nazis. So there is the possibility of divided loyalties. The answer to your questions might include the desire to revolutionize capitalism. It's weak patriotism, it's undermining sovereignty, it's undermining our party.

[KPN]

104. Who are our socialists undermining capitalism?

Give me a frigging break? Who is working to undermine sovereignty?

That is one way off base theory.

[bucolic_frolic]

105. The interests all align. /nt

[KPN]

106. Whe are they? You haven't answered my question.

[Hortensis]

148. As you say, the interests all align. And add the GOP and

the religious right, which has recently become extremely powerful in government, to that list. At some point, the various interests, both foreign and far left and far right domestic, definitely would diverge drastically.

But first, to achieve their goals they all must destroy/revolutionize our national government in the liberal democratic, capitalism-based form we inherited, and thus the liberal Democrats who protect it.

Both Trump and Sanders are populist leaders. A major element of almost all populist movements/governments is "direct government" by the people through their leader. Trump and Sanders see congress less (Trump not at all) as a representative body also elected by the people to serve them, and thus a valuable expression of the will of the people, than as an obstruction to carrying out their own goals.

Trump's goals are hierarchical and nativist. He seeks ultimate power and has moved our government big steps in that direction.

Sanders' goals are universalist solutions and lightly nativist. Once he and his populist movement made it clear to congress that no obstruction would be tolerated, he would of course communicate directly with "the people" in order to be able to fulfill their wishes on national policy. He says so often, and clearly enough for people who study how populist movements work to understand.

[democratisphere]

107. It is ALL ABOUT HE!

[johnnyplankton]

110. Why do Bernie bashers hate democracy?

if the DNC didn't rig it for Hillary, he might have stomped Trump. Just an opinion, just like yours. 210 posts. Are you a bot?

[AverageJoe]

113. Maybe it's the fact that he's wildly popular

with the vast majority of Democrats not on DU? That young voters love him? That he’s big with independent voters and people of color? Or that he loves his country and planet and desperately wants to save both? Dunno. Probably other reasons, too.

[floppyboo]

114. Sanders IS the unity candidate. Most popular, most favorable, beats Trump

You wrote:
Sanders is creating a lot of anxiety and despair within the democratic party.

That is only true for a very small % of the electorate.
Hearing words like the above do far more damage.
Why are all the small count new accounts being so dis-unifying? That should be far more worrying to folks.

[Tennessee Hillbilly]

162. I'm not a new account.

I've been a member of DU longer than you have.
-Tennessee Hillbily

[cstanleytech]

117. Hey, he is free to run just like anyone else. Now what I do disagree with him is that he seems to

only join the party when he wants to run but then leaves it to go back to being an independent yet at the same time he expects the parties leadership to allow him to have a say in what the party should do and how it should be run.
If he wants to contribute to that and if he wants to run for the Democratic nomination then he needs to remain in the party and not bail on it if he should lose the nomination.
After all there is zero shame in losing but it does tend to come off as sour grapes to only want to be a member when it suites your political goals in the pursuit of higher office.

[Stellar]

118. So since you feel that strongly about Bernie NOT running...

Let me ask you this....why is Klobuchar still running? She had ONE good night and she went up in the polls but now she's back down into single digits. What's up with that? Why is she still running?

How did Sanders candidacy damage Clintons chances in 2016 when I saw the letter that she sent him thanking him for his support, then, she lost. And she's been whining about Bernie lack of support every since. She's been on almost every show on tv whining about Bernie lack of support in 2016 for her during THIS primary to ensure Bernie should lose in 2020.

I recall in 2008 when Obama won the primary and the PUMAS said they would not vote for Obama and indeed 25% of them did not as apposed to Sanders 16% that did not vote for her. But Obama's supporters over-performed and he won anyway so that turned out to be no big thing for Obama.

But here's the thing, I'm sure the supporter of each candidate could find a reason for why another candidate should get out of the primary but in the end, the people of this country will decide. And perhaps then this site can stop whining about the same thing day in and day out.

[riverwalker]

122. Ego, pure ego.

I don’t believe he cares what happens to this country. He’s draining money and coverage from viable candidates and it infuriates me. He just doesn’t care that Trump will win again and it will be disastrous. I’ll vote for him if he gets the nomination, of course, but I’ll never trust him. Never.

[TwilightZone]

129. "Historically, a populist faux or not beats a non populist every time"

Name one true populist, other than Trump, who has won the presidency.

Here, I'll help:

Andrew Jackson

That's it. A few other populists have run. They all lost.

[at140]

127. Sanders is winning because the bottom 50% is getting squeezed

and getting squeezed badly. Incomes are stagnant, living wage is absent, college costs are unaffordable for the bottom half, middle class is drowning in debt to keep up, healthcare is bankrupting more people than ever and climate is getting pulverized. Going along with status quo is not acceptable to the bottom half and middle class.

While the top 10% walked away with 85% of tax cut dollars. Only Sanders & Warren have serious agenda's to tax the Billionaires more to make America fairer for all people.

[Ahpook]

133. Damn right!

Warren and a Sanders ticket is what we need

[at140]

135. Slow change and status quo is not going to cut it.

Time for moderation is long gone. When you consider just one person owns more wealth than 150 million Americans at the bottom, something is seriously wrong with our system. When top 10% walk away with 85% of tax cut dollars, the system is rigged for the rich to get richer while the middle & lower class are squeezed until it hurts.

[Bayard]

128. One of my many concerns...

Is that, if Bernie is not the nominee, his followers won't vote at all.

On the other hand, the current trend will not last. SO much can change in the next month.

[CentralMass]

137. I worry the opposite. All the Bernie attacks and claims that he can't

win sound an awful lot like veiled threats that you aren't going to vote for him if he wins.

I do expect that concerted effort to undermine and discredit him is pissing off a lot if his supporters.

[dbolski]

134. He is running to represent people who no one else wants to represent.

Do you really want a huge portion of the population to have no representation? Because the far right has their representation and the moderate right has theirs and the left should too. Don't you think?

[at140]

136. Correct, because the bottom 50% have zero superpacs.

[TwilightZone]

141. "no one else wants to represent"

Except pretty much every other candidate in the race, particularly Warren. Further, Democrats have been fighting for them for decades.

Politics didn't start with Bernie running for president in 2015, and he's not unique in supporting Democratic ideals. Assertions to the contrary are why he and his supporters often get pushback. They show a fundamental misunderstanding of political history, the Democratic party platform, and the stances of the other candidates.

[betsuni]

142. +1

[Cha]

144. +2!

[ehrnst]

153. +1000.

[ehrnst]

152. Who on the Dem POTUS ticket is not running to represent everyone?

[dbolski]

163. If the others in race are not representing moderate views

then why do so many people think it's ok for the delegates of Amy, Pete, Warren, Biden and anyone else whose not Bernie to be combined at the convention to form a majority against Bernie? Why should Warrens delegates end up being used against Bernie if she's not one of the moderates in the race?

[ehrnst]

165. You avoided answering the question, and tried to change the subject.

That's interesting.

[Bumperstickers]

190. +1000

[TEB]

151. His ego he's narcissistic

[Cuthbert Allgood]

154. So glad we have you with all your knowledge about who should and shouldn't run.

You should let the DNC know about your superpowers.

[ismnotwasm]

155. Because he believes in what he's doing

I hope I don’t have to say I’m no Bernie Sanders fan, because I not, but he is using his forward momentum to force the national dialogue on the issues he feels are important.

One of my many issues with him, is he doesn’t give credit where credit is due. I mean, one would think
Al Gore didn’t make an entire movie on climate change, and push a movement forward, or that Democrats haven’t been fighting for healthcare for decades.

This leads me to distrust the chances of his outcomes. Especially after reading his framework.

I really don’t want him as the nominee.

But I don’t doubt his sincerity.

[Progressive dog]

175. IMO He knows that his running hurts Democrats

and he doesn't care. His motive is unknown to me. My despair level is rising.
It is frightening that a new poll shows Trump winning Wisconsin against all Democrats by big margins.
https://www.channel3000.com/president-trump-leads-all-democratic-challengers-in-wisconsin-according-to-new-poll/

[JustAnotherGen]

176. Senator Sanders

Has every right in the world to run for President.

IDGAF what happened in 2016.

Every single one of these candidates has the right to throw their hat in the ring.

I do not have to vote for them in a Primary - and that's how I make it known to them that I don't accept their ideology.

[HarlanPepper]

183. Ego. Pure and simple.

"Only I can fix it."

[AJT]

188. This

[Gothmog]

191. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states and we will have Speaker Kevin McCarthy

sanders would turn out trump's base

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Stuart G]

200. This is totally correct. The Trump propaganda machine will destroy Benie's chances.

and if Bernie is our nominee, our chances will also be totally destroyed. Bernie's supporters don't even imagine the destruction that the Trump propaganda machine will do to our chances down the ballot.

...And Bernie is indeed the current version of "McGovern." We really do not want to give the current version of Nixon four more years...?

DO YOU WANT TO GIVE TRUMP 4 MORE YEARS?

[Gore1FL]

199. It's probably all of his voters are convincing him otherwise. nt

[Blue_Tires]

203. 1. It's an ego stroke for him

2. In his defense, for the last five years the media has been promoting him as the sole savior of liberal politics in this country... Even I can't really fault him for getting a God complex from all the puff pieces... (SEE ALSO: AOC)

[Gothmog]

206. If the Russians want to re-elect Trump makes perfect sense they want Sanders

Link to tweet

[nini]

208. Narcissists are like that

.