Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumToday in Joe Biden: Wants to Means-Test Social Security,
Gets Kiss of Death Endorsement From Andrew Cuomo
Before he became our lovable vice president and trusty Obama sidekick, Joe Biden was widely known in American political circles as a consummate gaffe artist. (When he wasnt known for his attempts to discredit Anita Hill or or to make life harder for those in student loan debt, that is.) The silly season is about to begin, and Biden is once more suspected of angling for the top spot. That means that if we all hope hard enough, the lord of gaffes may ride again!
Today brought some promising developments, even if they fell just shy of outright gaffes. First, Ryan Cooper of The Week unearthed a video from May of 2018 in which Biden, speaking to the Brookings Institute, endorses none other than Paul Ryan in advocating for means tests as a prelude to Medicare and Social Security cuts:
(snip)
Paul Ryan was correct when he did the tax code. What's the first thing he decided to go after? Social Security and Medicare. Now, we need to do something about Social Security and Medicare. That's the only way you can find room to pay for it. I don't know a whole lot of people in the top 1/10 of 1% or top 1% are relying on social security when they retire.
Now, it may be tempting to give Biden a pass on this one because he's only targeting rich people, and he does go on to denounce the GOP tax bill. But the very idea of means-testing Social Security and Medicare, in any way, is anathema to progressives because it opens the door for further changessome of which will be implemented by the other side. It's supposed to be doctrine among the left that these two programs are untouchable unless they're being expanded, and for Biden to suggest reducing coverageeven if it's just for rich people, at the momentis shocking and worrisome. Especially when it's accompanied by praise for Paul Ryan, who wanted nothing more for his entire career than to gut these programs. Daniel Marans may have put it best:
(snip)
https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2019/01/today-in-joe-biden-wants-to-means-test-social-secu.html
Edit to add a link to C-Span video of speech
Biden Defends the Ruling Class
USER-CREATED CLIP
MAY 8, 2018 "I don't think 500 billionaires are...why we're in trouble," says the ex-VP, who acknowledges the unsustainability of the gap in wealth but adds he would shrink Social Security and Medicare.
https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4728533/biden-defends-ruling-class
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RandySF
(58,900 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,635 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)and guess what happens next.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
RandySF
(58,900 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
shanny
(6,709 posts)is that everybody's in and everybody pays. Means testing will not save, or expand the program appreciably--but eliminating the cap or even better, applying it to all income, will.
*except by Democrats, apparently
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
whathehell
(29,067 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Zoonart
(11,869 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,501 posts)logical answer. It wouldn't even have to be raised all that much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
whathehell
(29,067 posts)The closest I can get to a 'reason' is that it would inconveniences the rich too much.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
PatSeg
(47,501 posts)drawback.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,421 posts)...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)Sanders also reported income of $4,982 from the pension he receives having been mayor of Burlington, Vt., in the 1980s. And his wife had another $4,900 in compensation for sitting on a commission devoted to the management of low-level radioactive waste disposal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2015/06/30/on-tax-returns-sanders-and-wife-report-200000-in-income-mostly-from-his-senate-post/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Power 2 the People
(2,437 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TDale313
(7,820 posts)Programs for the poor and easier to attack/get rid of. The smartest aspect of them is everyone has a piece of them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
marybourg
(12,633 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)to continue FEHBP because he was a two term POTUS, and HRC as his spouse AND was a 5+ year Senator, AND a 4 year SoS...
But any opportunity to display some hate for the Clintons and their financial status is an opportunity, I guess...
The Sanders are also millionaires, and they will also be eligible to continue to get health care via FEHBP after Bernie's retirement as a 5+ year career politician, and will not need to go on Medicare if they choose not to.
Most people who can afford to get more comprehensive insurance than Medicare do so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Something like 1% of the populaton doesn't "need" social security. That's really not making a big dent in the social security programs.
Better to raise the cap on how much the rich pay in, would get a higher return.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Uncle Joe (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)in the future and it won't just be the wealthy that pay the price.
Whenever Paul Ryan's ilk have control of the Congress and White House again, do you believe they wouldn't be tempted to continually lower the means mark?
If Joe and Paul Ryan were so concerned by the richest 1% getting social security, then eliminate the cap so they continue to pay into the trust fund no matter how much money they make.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Gets the public on board with means testing for social security...step one on the road to killing it.
Why the hell can we not just raise the cap!!
Ohh right, the rich 1% would have to pay a tiny bit more in taxes and they would rather see us all dying in ditches by the side of the road than pay a little more in SS taxes!
This is a terrible position for any democrat to take, much less one running for POTUS.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)of means testing.
Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,408 posts)https://www.investopedia.com/personal-finance/how-much-income-puts-you-top-1-5-10/
Economic disparity continues to make news. The Economic Policy Institute just published a study showing that the top 1% reached the highest wages ever in 2017. But when you read all those stories about the 1% or even the top 5% or 10% how much money do you need to pull in to be in one of those groups? Here's the answer.
The newest figures were drawn from Social Security Administration data, allowing EPI researchers to estimate wage trends in more precise segments and to measure trends. The latest data show that the rich definitely are getting richer faster than the rest of the population. Wages grew 3.7% for the top 1%, but only 1% for the bottom 90% of the population. Note that these data are about wages, not income as a whole; they do not include investment income, for example, which is not part of Social Security data.
Social Security Online: Wage Statistics for 2017
https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2017
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Historic NY
(37,451 posts)you know damn well there was more to what he said on CSPAN and it was aimed at the top 1%, taking it when they don't need it. Shrink it meant taking it from those at the top.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)It's an opening of Pandora's Box just creating a dividing mark that can be moved around any time
in the future and it won't just be the wealthy that pay the price.
Whenever Paul Ryan's ilk have control of the Congress and White House again, do you believe they wouldn't be tempted to continually lower the means mark?
If Joe and Paul Ryan were so concerned by the richest 1% getting social security, then eliminate the cap so they continue to pay into the trust fund no matter how much money they make.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... With Sanders supporters hoping no one will bother to read the entire article. I noticed the same thing in another thread. Here is the link.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128753535
Notice the OPs snip, and then look at my post #8 snip from the same article. Cheap hit job on good good Democrats.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,408 posts)Ben Cohen is the Founder and Editor of The Daily Banter. He has written for the Huffington Post and ESPN.com, and spends most of his spare time training in Martial Arts. Originally from London, he now lives in Washington DC.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)a Ben Cohen who was a BS supporter.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,408 posts)from them through that prism.
Cheers.
Oh, btw,
I see you switched from Kamala Harris (who is my second choice unless Stacey Abrams joins the race but who (Abrams) I really hope goes for the GA Senate seat, as Perdue is a POS and we need the Seante back badly) to Biden. Was it over her comments about the women and Biden?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)it verifies what I thought.
Actually switched to Biden to show support for him. we'll see how this all pans out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,408 posts)Only thing I am sure of it will never be Bernie. I just hope his damage can be limited. Some of his supporters are truly on a scorched earth policy. They seem lately to be fixated on Joe and now Pete. It is madness.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TexasTowelie
(112,248 posts)and they are still on a scorched earth policy. The focus may change but the tactics remain consistent.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts).... there are two ways to run a campaign. You can either run it with honor, or you can run it this way. You cannot be a presidential candidate and not know this is happening.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)you run your campaign is the way you'd run the office.
Thank you
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts)....and thank you for all you do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,219 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
still_one
(92,219 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
quickesst
(6,280 posts)I just feel that if people are making decisions and have beliefs based upon bad information, they're not only being dishonest to everyone else, they're being dishonest to themselves. I can usually tell when I hit home by the total lack of a response. That happens a lot.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
IluvPitties
(3,181 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Perrenial Voter
(173 posts)consulting" with the Sanders campaign on Feb. 20, and began official work in March. There have been several investigative articles that debunked the article in Atlantic, whose author misunderstood or misrepresented what he had been told by staff.
You can decide for yourself whether or not this is a smear, but I will say that its a pretty standard understanding on the left the social programs that benefit everyone are popular; social programs that are means tested are unpopular, and can be chipped away at or done away with entirely. Thus, any attempt at means testing is seen as a willingness to weaken the program. An alternative that progressive candidates have proposed is extending Social Security taxes to higher incomes.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,421 posts)I think not. Democrats said no before - which is good.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)But now all of a sudden it's a bad bad thing to talk about Joe Biden's record!
What's with the double standards huh?
If vetting is good for every other person in the race, it's good for Joe too!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Lol.
But an essay from 1972? Oh by all means
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
shanny
(6,709 posts)So are his policies.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,310 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)Not. Gonna. Happen.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Thekaspervote
(32,778 posts)Bernie has plenty of his own shit and hes not even a democrat... shame on you
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
onetexan
(13,043 posts)He's clearly got something to hide. Probably taking a page from trump here.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Bernie is vetted with glee on this board. Did you have a problem with that?
What makes Joe immune to the same treatment?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)Sirota LIES.
Bernie Sanders Just Hired His Twitter Attack Dog
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/03/sanders-promised-civility-hired-twitter-attack-dog/585259/
From a Bogus Website to Bernie Sanders's Inner Circle
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128736485
Why was David Sirota kneecapping our nominee on the eve of the election?
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128734324
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
fleabiscuit
(4,542 posts)I thought his team had a hate hardon for HRC. Turns out that the team has one for every democrat running for president. Go figure.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)Last edited Fri Apr 5, 2019, 03:36 AM - Edit history (2)
David Sirota And The Bernie Left Are Now Smearing Joe Biden Over Social Security Cutshttps://thedailybanter.com/2019/01/02/david-sirota-bernie-left-now-smearing-joe-biden/
Edited out the Ice Cream Ben Cohen part!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,408 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Cha
(297,310 posts)cleaning up my messes!
I appreciate it.. I saw Ben Cohen's name and I just thought of Ice Cream.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MarcA
(2,195 posts)Unending, confusing paperwork pushed on recipients. And its not just your income,
its your resources/assets. What's countable income and what isn't. Which resources
are exempt and which aren't. It will be just like Medicaid. The Rethugs will have a
field day on "welfare fraud" enforcement. The only ones to benefit will be the
bureaucrats and lawyers. I am not a Sanders supporter and not attacking Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)I don't get why Democrats are so into means testing. Just giving things to everyone is probably cheaper once you throw away all of the accounting bullshit.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,421 posts)...
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
lapucelle
(18,275 posts)minimum wage, tuition-free state university, and the codification of Roe v Wade into state law? That Andrew Cuomo is a "centrist figure despised by progressives"? Not here in New York.
As for Ryan Cooper (the un-earther of the "troubling" Biden video), he appears to have a few easily unearthed issues of his own. Here's the bio photo of the very privileged Mr. Cooper from his personal website.
Cooper was called out about this photo last year when he was running around unearthing "troubling" o̶p̶p̶o̶ ̶ "information" about Kamala Harris.
Shane Ryan and Ryan Cooper are not merely typical; they're prototypical. I would hesitate to take anything either of them has to say seriously.
Caveat lector
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,421 posts)I might agree with taxing more incremental wage income to fund it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)The whole thread is pointless. SS will have to be addressed, and the proposed solutions will have to be some sort of compromise.
To take one quote from the past and use it in a smear campaign is indicative of the problem we face in this country.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
David__77
(23,421 posts)I think the Social Security works.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
beachbum bob
(10,437 posts)Its almost insulting to all of us who worked long and hard all our lives to be able to make ends meet.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,586 posts)to build up candidates, but no more. There is no reason to bring old shit up over and over about Biden . Sen Sanders has a record too and maybe it is time to examine it.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
exboyfil
(17,863 posts)first to go negative. While I don't support Biden, I will long before I support Sanders. I don't talk about my reasons either, but it might come to that.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,330 posts)Advocating means testing Social Security is a very bad idea.
And Im sorry, but have you been reading DU? Its called vetting. Or is vetting only for one candidate?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ProfessorPlum
(11,257 posts)and has been ever since the forces of Darkness started advocating for it immediately after SS was formed.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,421 posts)While this poll is old, I find it interesting in light of this discussion (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/31/americans-want-to-raise-payroll-taxes-and-social-security-benefits/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f823522e71fe)
Democrats must not agree to engage in "entitlement reform" with Republicans." Social Security works!
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=&w=1484
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Social Security is designed as a "progressive" social insurance system, which means it replaces a greater part of average monthly pay for lower-income workers than for higher-income workers.
Thus, those paying two, three or four times the average social security tax, receive proportionately less in benefits. That's not a bad thing in my mind, it's just a fact. Also, Social Security Benefits are taxable to those who make significant income from other sources.
?itok=Rd5cfQfl
https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/57666/311016-how-progressive-is-social-security-and-why-.pdf
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)by eliminating social security benefits for the wealthy, as they already receive less benefit from what they pay into the trust fund.
Social Security's strength is that it pays everyone regardless of income something so it's much more difficult for Paul Ryan and the Republicans to attack.
I refer you to my post#4 up-thread.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Is it really that much of a stretch to just say -- "Sorry, if you are making more than $200,000 in retirement, you won't get your $35,000 from Social Security for the good of the system. If your nest egg eveporates, SS will be there for you."
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Uncle Joe
(58,366 posts)(snip)
Here's the catch. If those changes are to fill the hole completely, we would have to eliminate the taxable wage base without increasing benefits. Right now, just as there's a cap on how much one can pay in each year, there's a cap on benefit levels to match. Presumably, many wealthier Americans who would be paying more into the system would want to get higher benefits in return, so eliminating one without altering the other is a policy move that might face significant opposition from the 6% or so of Americans whose incomes top that ceiling. However, it's worth pointing out that eliminating the taxable maximum while also increasing benefits would still help significantly -- but additional changes would still be required.
(snip)
You might expect that tax increases would be unpopular among the American public, particularly among Republicans and high-income households. However, when it comes to these hikes, that doesn't appear to be the case.
According to a survey by the National Academy of Social Insurance, 77% of Americans feel that it is critical to preserve Social Security benefits for future generations, even if it means raising taxes. Among respondents, 81% agreed that they don't mind paying taxes into Social Security "because it provides security and stability to millions." This includes majorities of every age group, income level, and political affiliation.
The bottom line is that with a couple of tax changes, we could return Social Security to long-term solvency, and they are moves that most Americans would likely be on board with. Given that the federal government is under Republican control, they may not happen within the next few years, but it's certainly a possibility that Washington will act before the Social Security trust fund is depleted.
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/07/11/2-simple-tax-changes-that-would-fix-social-security-for-good.html
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)If you do, it will not solve all the problems facing SS. It helps, but will not solve the deficit because you are taking in more, but also paying out more. Again, it helps, for sure.
Personally, I'd prefer a surcharge for people above the cap -- say 3% or so -- which is less than the 14+% percentage point Social Security tax increase; and, then, a general income tax increase to be used toward healthcare, education, food stamps, deficit reduction, etc.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MaryMagdaline
(6,855 posts)Rich people live longer and they should not benefit from the cap.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
qazplm135
(7,447 posts)just in the opposite direction with that stupid cap.
Either raise the cap OR if people are making seriously high wages then use reduce the cost.
Just because someone might use something the wrong way doesn't make it wrong in and of itself.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Kaleva
(36,309 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden