Looks like Sanders' breaking his promise to release his health records is getting more attention

[highplainsdem]

than anything else he said last night.

And I expect it to be brought up at tonight's debate as well.

It's past time for Sanders to be honest with the people he's asking to vote for him.

The longer he tries to pretend it's okay to not release the records -- or, much worse, to have his press secretary compare questions about his health to the birtherism smear, and compound that stupid error by lying about Bloomberg's health (and then backtrack on that and try to claim she simply misspoke), the worse Sanders looks.

Especially since there's no way his press secretary would have tried to peddle that ridiculous comparison, or the lie about Bloomberg's health, without Sanders' approval.

Shame on him.

[MontanaMama]

1. He said he would release his full records.

Now he says he won’t. Sounds like someone else we know...

[highplainsdem]

2. He's being compared to Trump by the media. Just what we need...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-heart-attack-2020/index.html

[JaneQPublic]

11. If records prove your case, then you release them.

When they don't, then you hide them.

Truth be told, Bernie has been looking a tad bit more haggard than usual. His face often looks beet red, and a photo of him flying coach showed him looking, well, not as vigorous as usual.



If he is indeed suffering from health problems, then he's being terribly selfish to stay in the race, if not to share his full medical records with the public.

It's every bit as selfish as when John Edwards ran for president while hiding that he had an affair and a child with Rielle Hunter.

Eventually, the truth comes out.

[ehrnst]

32. Yep. Putting the election at stake in the service of personal ambition is something that

we can't afford as a nation from any candidate, no matter how entitled to it they are convinced they are.

However, if one believes that whatever benefits oneself automatically benefits one's country, that would serve to rationalize that ambition taking priority.

[WA-03 Democrat]

54. That is not coach. It's domestic first class

The bulk end wall divides between first and economy

[uponit7771]

26. Just damn, another "Better than Trump" in areas while America needs total opposite of Trump

[left-of-center2012]

3. Plus Sanders spokeswoman falsely said Boomberg "has suffered heart attacks"

The Sanders spokeswoman tweeted later Wednesday morning that she "mispoke" when she said Bloomberg had a heart attack while offering no apology.

Bloomberg aide hits back at Sanders campaign over 'Trumpy lie' about heart attacks

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/483606-bloomberg-aide-hits-back-at-sanders-campaign-over-trumpy-lie-about-heart-attacks

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287538364

[uponit7771]

27. I don't see how a stint is 100% better than no heart attack

[left-of-center2012]

31. a stent can prevent a heart attack n/t

[Cha]

4. Yeah, especially when he has his press sec out there

saying it's a "smear" to ask him to release them like he said he would.'

Link to tweet

[Walleye]

5. Remember last time when every poll asked who the voter thought was "honest and trustworthy"?

I haven’t seen much of that question in polls this time around.

[joost5]

6. I like Bernie, but...

Before his heart attack, Sanders himself pledged to release medical records. “The American people have the right to know whether the person they’re going to be voting for for president is healthy,” he said. “And we will certainly release our medical records before the primaries.” After his heart attack, he pledged “full disclosure” to Sanjay Gupta, that he would make “all of our medical records public for you or anybody else who wants to see them.” Sanders has gone on to release fairly detailed letters from three physicians, but that is not the general meaning of “all of our medical records.”

from Daily Kos

Promising one thing and doing another is not a good look.

[thesquanderer]

13. "Pledging" "Promising" "Giving his word" -- Where??

I'm not taking a stand here over whether he should or should not release them, but I repeatedly see posts here saying that he "promised" to do so, or similar. When did simply saying that you will do something turn into a promise or a pledge? Sometimes people simply say what they intend to do, and they mean it at the time, and they change their mind. Or the words they chose off the cuff were not the most accurate description of their intent.

My point is simply: Not every statement each of us makes qualifies as a promise. These characterizations strike me as dishonest, and I think are from those whose agenda is simply to cast Sanders in a bad light.

[ehrnst]

15. What about doing a 180, going back on one's word, about-face, backpedaling?

October 2019:

"The people do have a right to know about the health of a senator, somebody who's running for president of the United States, full disclosure," Sanders told CNN’s chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta, following the incident. "And, we will make at the appropriate time, all of our medical records public for you or anybody else who wants to see them."

Yesterday:

"Bernie Sanders says he won't release full medical records"

Especially from a politician whose supporters claim big draw is that ""he doesn't change."

What would you call the difference between those two statements above in October and yesterday?

Did he "misspeak" in October?

Please, let us know what the proper terminology is.

[thesquanderer]

16. Fine, take him to task here for changing his mind. But not breaking a promise.

And come on, "he doesn't change" is a non sequitur here. Next you'll be saying, OMG, he changed his underwear, I thought he doesn't change!

Not changing refers to the fact that he has almost entirely the same basic philosophies he's had for 40+ years. I'm sure you can find little changes here and there, but this isn't about looking for gotcha's, it's about the fact that, overall, he has been remarkably consistent for a politician. Most of the floor speeches you can find from decades past are things you could as easily imagine him saying today. He's not perfect, but he does have the virtue of not needing to run away from or explain away or apologize for old votes/positions/actions as much as your typical candidate. Even his critics usually give him that much.

[ehrnst]

17. OH...so it's "Changing his mind"

Sanders has referred to changing one's mind as "flip-flopping" when other candidates do it.

I suppose it's completely ok when he does it...



So, what else do you think will he will be "changing his mind" about that he's stated he will do when he's POTUS?

[thesquanderer]

20. Fine, call it flip-flopping. That's also accurate. Saying it's breaking a promise isn't. (n/t)

[ehrnst]

21. But Sanders has referred to "flip flopping" as a dealbreaker when other politicians do it,

and that it indicates a lack of reliability and trustworthiness.

What is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another called again?

What else do you think he will "flip flop" on?

[thesquanderer]

23. I think it's a non-issue, but I'm curious...

...do you have a link to where Sanders said flip-flopping is a dealbreaker? I’d like to know exactly what he said, and the full context.

(The reason I say non-issue is, if I were going to rule out anyone who had ever changed their mind or flip-flopped or ever exhibited hypocrisy, I suspect I could never have voted for anyone... and this is not a particularly important thing to backtrack on, IMO.)

[ehrnst]

25. Yes. For purposes of citation, a prominent example of his using the term "flip-flop"

as a slam, and him contrasting it with his "consistency" is in the link here: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=540831

[thesquanderer]

34. That link just went to your previous post. Also...

... I didn't ask for when he used flip-flopping as a slam (find me a politician who hasn't), I asked for when he said it was a dealbreaker.

[ehrnst]

36. Yes, there is a link in that previous post.

Look for the underlined words to find the link. Click on them to go to the link.

In it is an example of Bernie railing against "flip-flopping" on another candidate, and contrasts his "consistency" as what qualifies him as the only acceptable choice.

dealbreaker:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/dealbreaker

noun [ C ] informal
UK /ˈdiːlˌbreɪ.kər/ US /ˈdiːlˌbreɪ.kɚ/

something that is important enough to you to prevent you from agreeing to something, buying something, etc

[thesquanderer]

38. Ah, had to click through that link to the next one...

...Unfortunately, it goes to WAPO which is firewalled.

Though from what you added there, it sounds like he didn't use the word "dealbreaker" and you may be ascribing something more definitive to what is just typical political rhetoric.

Getting back to the original point, his answer last night took an interesting tack... Rather than making some excuse for not releasing everything that was relevant, he argued that what he was released was everything that was relevant, i.e. sufficient to fulfill the intent. I suppose that is a defensible argument, if not a great one. And his adversaries then did not focus on his earlier use of the word "all" and whether what he released qualified as "all" (which admittedly is the kind of semantic argument you see in places like DU where people look for any kind of gotcha, but rarely in more "serious" venues, putting aside the meaning of what the word "is" is). Instead they disagreed with the assessment that what he released was sufficiently detailed for a presidential candidate. (IIRC.)

[ehrnst]

40. I gave you the definition of the term "dealbreaker"

That was not in quotations. The term "flip-flopping" was.

Rather than making some excuse for not releasing everything that was relevant,

He was making excuses for not doing what he said he was going to do.

He moved the goalposts. If someone says that they will pay you $100 in return for some gardening you did for them, then they delay, and delay and delay, then wind up giving you $50, because they have decided that would be enough, would you say, "$50 is a sufficient amount," or would you say, "Why would you offer $100 if you only intended to pay $50?" And would you accept it if they then said, "Well someone else paid only $50 for the same work from someone else, so why do you think you're entitled to more from me? I have since decided that $50 is sufficient and relevant."

Would you call that person reliable, and consistent or would you call them a flip-flopper?

What is relevant is that he did a 180. If he had not stated that he would release "comprehensive records" to create the impression just after his heart attack that he had nothing to hide, then this would not have been a flip-flop. And it would not appear that he indeed found something in those full records that doesn't support his claims of roaring good health.

Does that make more sense as to what the point is?

[thesquanderer]

46. I already agreed that you could call it a flip-flop...

See post #20 where I said "Fine, call it flip-flopping. That's also accurate." So I don't know why you're still trying to convince me it's flip flopping. I've already accepted that as a reasonable interpretation.

As for the other, words with similar meanings have different subtle implications... that's why it's good that we often have numerous words for very similar ideas. That's what started my conversation here... that if he didn't use the word "promise" or similar, then it's not accurate to say he broke one. Similarly, if he didn't use the word "dealbreaker" you should not say that he referred to something as a dealbreaker, because, well, he didn't. As for how close he came, I don't know, because as I said, the article was behind paywall. If he didn't use the exact word, I'd at least want to see phrasing that unambiguously made the point with the same force as the word "dealbreaker" does.

I see this on DU a lot, and don't see the point. I mean, if you have a legit criticism to make, why embellish it in such a way as to make it less true? If you have to put words into a candidate's mouth in order to prove something, you've got a weak foundation. Why not just make the point using the words s/he actually used? If you can't, well, that tells you something.

[Cha]

60. BS said..

Link to tweet

[thesquanderer]

61. Correct. Thank you for helping make my point. (n/t)

[Cha]

62. What he said should be good enough to actually do it.

[thesquanderer]

63. Fine. As I said, I was not arguing that what he released was (or wasn't) good enough,

that's a different conversation. I was only objecting to people putting words in his mouth, i.e. that he had "promised" or "pledged" something when he had not. As I said, not every statement of intent each of us makes qualifies as a promise; and if you have a legit criticism to make, why embellish it in such a way as to make it less true?

[Cha]

64. It's my conversation.. he said it.. and it should be good

enough to carry through..

As good as a "promise".

[thesquanderer]

65. If statements of intent were equivalent to promises, we wouldn't so often followup a statement with

"Do you promise?"

Every 5-to-10 year old kid knows the difference.

[cilla4progress]

7. I love Bernie but

his team does not seem ready for prime time.

[Taraman]

8. He hired and leads his team, but takes no responsibility for them.

Being President is all about character. I worry about where we're going.

[DanTex]

9. From people who were never going to vote for Bernie anyway, yes it is.

[ehrnst]

14. You mean like people who pay attention when a candidate does an about-face on a promise?

And don't scramble to try to diminish it or frantically try to redirect the conversation away from it when it's their guy doing the embarrassing establishment politics as usual, status quo side-step?



He has said that "flip-flopping" is a sign of unreliability, and untrustworthiness, at least in other candidates.

What is the practice of engaging in the same behavior or activity for which one criticizes another called again?

[TDale313]

10. He really should release them.

All the candidates should, IMO. And tax records. We’re asking for transparency, we should be showing it ourselves.

[krissey]

12. This behavior is no better than Trump and Democrats are better than this. Don't promise us the

records and then dismiss us and just say no.

[krissey]

18. Sanders floated it out about a month ago and did not get much push back. Now he is. Good.

He made a pledge looking us in the eyes we would get comprehensive medical records. Now he tells us no because he thinks he does not have to keep that pledge.

He does have to keep his pledge. He is not a Trump. Democrats will not elect a Trump.

[ehrnst]

19. He has referred to that as "flip-flopping" in other candidates....

But there are always different rules when it comes to his own actions.

[Gothmog]

22. What happens if @BernieSanders becomes the nominee & then suffers another heart attack?

Link to tweet

[bdamomma]

24. I was wondering

if he is alright with this grueling schedule. He should show his records, but we have a jerk who didn't show his tax returns or his poor health records too.

The American people should demand it.

[Mike Nelson]

28. A great thing for Bernie to do...

... would be to announce he's releasing them tonight - and apologize to Bloomberg for his staffer saying Bloomberg suffered heart attacks. A lot of people would say, "Hmm... Bernie seems real good, a real change from Trump!"

[ehrnst]

29. That would be a humble, sincere, generous thing to do.

What are the odds?

If Sanders doesn't, I hope Bloomberg brings it up and confronts him on it.

[NurseJackie]

30. He's hiding something. I can't support a candidate who's not honest about their health.

[keithbvadu2]

33. He can have Trump's doctor sign a letter of good health.

He can have Trump's doctor sign a letter of good health.

[joost5]

44. haha! By Trump's standard, Bernie's in TOP shape.

Compared to Trump, Bernie has released MORE than enough info, because it's real, from real doctors.

[ehrnst]

45. By Bernie's standard of what he said "people deserve to know about their Senator"

in terms of 'comprehensive" medical records that he pronounced last October, not so much.

[Autumn]

35. A brand new version of " But the birth certificate!!!"

You can't require one candidate provide more information than others. Since Bernie has released as much as Biden and Liz have I hope Bernie tells the media to fuck off.

[ehrnst]

37. But far less than he said he would, and what the "people deserve"

October....
Sanders plans to release health records by end of year

"The people do have a right to know about the health of a senator, somebody who's running for president of the United States -- full disclosure," Sanders said, pledging again release his full medical records.

“I want to make it comprehensive,” Sanders said in explaining the delay. “The answer is I will, probably by the end of the year.”

This week...

Bernie Sanders says he won't release full medical records

But do continue with the false equivalence between the racist birthers, and journalists who are calling out the flip-flopping on the part of Senator Sanders on "full disclosure."

That's not grasping at straws whatsoever.

[Autumn]

39. I don't bother reading anything past your headers . It doesn't matter what he said and I have yet

to see this promise that everyone seems to be hanging their moon on. He gave as much as Liz and Biden did. I hope he tells the media to fuck off you get what you get. Don't like it? Want more? Make it a fucking requirement that everybody do the same.

[ehrnst]

41. Hurts that much, eh? He promised what no other candidate did, then didn't follow through

No other candidate made that promise. Bernie did, in an effort to show that he had nothing to hide after his "chest event" and now he's backpedaling... and you're angry at journalists pointing that out.

Don't like it?



That's gotta be really hard for you. Can't really defend that, so going on the offensive is the last resort.



Apparently you are the impression that the more "fuck yous" and "fuckings" and "fuck offs" you include the more credibility your post will have. OK - Fucking try all caps next time.



But take a break first. Losing it like that can contribute to high blood pressure, and that can lead to heart disease and stroke.

[Autumn]

42. Not a thing hurts me. All I see is black marks on a white screen.

But do go on if it helps you feel good.

[ehrnst]

43. And now the "Anything you say bounces off me and sticks to you" reposte.

Totally convincing, Hon. You're absolutely positively cool and over all this silly talk about Bernie refusing to clear his own stated bar for "what the people deserve" in terms of 'comprehensive' information on medical records...

[Autumn]

47. Wish I could rec your post. Since I'm responsible for the best part. Thanks!

Now I'm off to brunch. Have fun ehrnst.

[George II]

49. Before anyone votes for him, they have to assess which of his other promises he'll fail to keep.

[George II]

51. That promise is on video, it's been all over this site.

[George II]

48. We can require that all candidates who have had a heart attack in the last several months release...

...their full medical records.

Biden hasn't had a heart attack.
Buttigieg hasn't had a heart attack.
Warren hasn't had a heart attack.
Klobuchar hasn't had a heart attack.
Bloomberg hasn't had a heart attack.

Let's turn what you said around. Each of those five have released full details of the circumstances around their "heart attacks", why not Sanders?

[Autumn]

57. And then what George? Aneurysms next? Dems are not as a rule, at least the ones I know, fond

of discrimination of any type. But if you don't mind then go for it. Bernie released all the information on his heart attack. Let's play your game.

Sanders hasn't had an aneurysm and doesn't have AFib
Buttigieg hasn't had an aneurysm and doesn't have AFib
Warren hasn't had an aneurysm and doesn't have AFib
Klobuchar hasn't had an aneurysm and doesn't have AFib
Bloomberg hasn't had an aneurysm and doesn't have AFib

And I bet only two of those candidates have ever been pregnant and given birth.

[George II]

58. A heart attack is a VERY serious condition. It disqualifies one from flying an aircraft....

...(Bloomberg has a pilot's license). Aneurysms and Afib do not. If those two were as serious as heart attacks they would be disqualifying, too.

You're pooh poohing the health of a 78 year old man just 3-4 months away from a heart attack. PLUS, Sanders promised ON AIR that he would release his full medical records. If he's going to back down on such a promise, what other things that he's promising us will he renege on?

[SoCalNative]

55. Sorry, but no

the others haven't suffered heart attacks during their campaigns. Either he releases the records or he should just go away.

He won't get my vote anyway unless I have no other choice in the general.

[Autumn]

56. Sorry, but yes it is. nt

[BlueMTexpat]

50. And well it should! eom

[at140]

52. What is Bernie afraid of?

We all know he suffered a mild heart attack, he has couple of stents, and he is 78 years old,
who most likely does not spend much time in a Gym. His medical record will contain no surprises.

[dawg day]

53. I have to say, I always wonder if it is fair...

People do have health issues they want to keep private, especially when Trump is hiding his own. Minor things like hemorrhoids and urinary tract infections... trashy Trump would crow about those and his nutcase fans would say it's deep state.

[emmaverybo]

59. A "doctor's note" is not good enough. Voters deserve to know what condition led to his heart attack

and the prognosis, not just a “Bernie’s doctor cleared him for gym” assurance, which is none at all.

Refusing to release suggests covering up. Guaranteed if we don’t push the question, Republicans will in the GE.