Bernie can't win..etc

[TheSocialDem]

Yet most Bernie haters will acknowledge that he has more supporters that would stay home if he wasn’t the nominee than the other candidates.

Well then the logic of you supporting another candidate if all you care about is beating trump doesn’t hold very much water.

I’ll vote blue no matter who but you can’t have it both ways if you are perpetuating both of those ideas at the same time. That he can’t beat trump, and that another candidate has a better chance, but sanders supporters more than any other candidate are their nominee or bust.

[handmade34]

1. we don't HATE Bernie

we are merely more pragmatic than you

[TheSocialDem]

2. What's pragmatic about nominating

Someone who would more so than others cause people to stay home who would otherwise vote for sanders for president?

[SDANation]

6. If Sanders supporters pout a stay home if he doesn't get the nom

with all that is on the line than that just shows how privileged and immature they are. No one is saying we HATE him, people are saying, what matters is winning this election not changing America now at this juncture. Pragmatism.

[TheSocialDem]

31. You use it as a drag but you won't acknowledge

The practical value that lends to having Sanders as a nominee

[NurseJackie]

20. Speak for yourself. I know many people who do.

we don't HATE Bernie

Speak for yourself. I know many people who do.

we are merely more pragmatic than you

Now THAT part is 100% true!

I'll continue to argue that there is NOTHING "progressive" about the extreme left's "no compromise" philosophy. They have openly, loudly and repeatedly confirmed their belief that "incrementalism" isn't enough and that they'd rather make NO PROGRESS instead of finding common ground and mutually beneficial solutions.

That, to me, is the very definition of "maintaining the status quo". (And for some bizarre reason, the fringe-left finds this to be a boastful talking point. They're quite proud of themselves with their "no-loaf for everyone" strategy... whereas, and all I'm trying to say is... sometimes, a half a loaf (or even a slice) is a welcome change especially when the most vulnerable among us are starving.

But I suppose it's easy to "stand your ground" with a all-or-nothing philosophy when you're rich enough and have the resources to be able to hold out.

Purity. Meh! Fuck that!

[Demsrule86]

30. +1000000....got to make the world safe for Grandchildren! We have to get rid of Trump.

[Fresh_Start]

3. there was an OP last week..

a candidate like bernie is likely to increase opposition turnout more than it increases same party turnout.

Also, its not just about the presidency...in fact the house and senate are no less important than the presidency. There are legitimate concerns that Bernie will put us in a worse outcome on both the house and senate.

[nobuddy]

4. All of the belly aching is wasted energy

Bloomberg is here to save the country

[KPN]

5. I'm voting for either Sanders or Warren -- depending on

who appears most viable as far as winning. If neither, then I may consider one of our other candidates (most likely Klobuchar) but only then.

I agree with your assessment. Also, I have greater faith in a Sanders candidacy winning the White House than any of our candidates. He will capture just as many if not more I's as any other candidate in my view.

I will, of course, vote gladly for whoever wins our nomination ... except Bloomberg. At this point, I can't see myself voting gladly for him.

[Meadowoak]

7. +1

[LanternWaste]

8. A flawed premise undermines all that comes after.

No one (at DU anyways) *hates* Sanders.

Many people though (and this is where the cognitive dissonance hits-- every time) find a lot of his most vocal supporters wearisome, lacking the ability to speak in anything other than allegations lacking evidence to support them (see for example your post) and an almost cult-like behavior.

Provide objective evidence or data to support your premise, else keep yelling righteously at the rain to stop falling.

[handmade34]

19. I believe you have it backwards

there has not been one person that I am aware has said that they will not vote for Bernie in the General if he is the nominee... on the other hand, I have read and heard a lot of talk about Bernie supporters that will stay home or vote for someone else in the General

I am simply not aware of any "Never Bernie" sentiments

the primary argument against Bernie is not ideology, but a true heartfelt sense that he will discourage an inordinate number of independents and republicans looking for an alternative to trump...

[Demsrule86]

27. It is never Bernie in the primary because folks think he loses the General...not one person has said

the won't vote for him in the General...in fact I and everyone else has too. If someone says that well you know the remedy.

[brooklynite]

10. How about this math...

I expect that a share of Sanders voters will stamp their foot and stay home or vote Third Party in another candidate is nominated. I am CONVINCED that Sanders has been unable to bring in the promised horde of left-leaning voters he claims are waiting for a "real progressive" and he won't be able to attract the moderate suburban voters we need to supplement the Democratic base, AND he'll risk our hold on the House. I'll take my chances with "other".

[Demsrule86]

26. Me too...

[Demsrule86]

29. The hoards of left leaning voters he claims are waiting for a 'real progressive' don't exist IMHO.

His supporters are in the minority...hence his inability to break 30 % much less a majority.

[Corgigal]

35. I'll be amazed if he

captures the base, but he won’t deliver plus for us. With the cheater in the WH, we need plus.

[Gothmog]

11. Socialism will kill sanders and down ballot caniddates

Link to tweet

[MoonlitKnight]

12. I think all of our candidates can and will beat Trump

So pick who you like best. Trying to figure out who is most electable is a fool’s errand.

Let’s not be afraid to fight for what we believe in. The other side is already energized and will turn out regardless of our candidate. Once we have someone we need to get behind that person with everything we’ve got.

[SDANation]

13. A lot of bad taste

is still left over from Bernie or bust people and the vote your conscience people with a majority of the Democratic Party. Because in a way cost us many votes and we got stuck with Trump.

[Sloumeau]

14. Bernie cannot win because America will not put a Socialist...

in the White House in 2020. If he wins the nomination, we will see nonstop "Bernie is a Socialist" and "Socialists are so bad" Ads on TV and on Social Media. Socialists only win in super blue districts or states.

[gollygee]

15. I think he has some supporters who will stay home

I'm more worried about how energized the trump voters will be by him, and especially the don't-like-trump-but-are-scared-of-a-socialist voters. Edit to add: I don't hate him. I voted for him in the 2016 primary. I didn't think America would support Trump. I was very wrong about how much ugliness there is in the US.

[corbettkroehler]

16. Tilting At Windmills

My fellow Berner, post along these lines if you like but, believe me, I've tried and it hasn't gone well. Until Bernie is in the White House (and perhaps not even then), a majority of DUers won't give an inch.

I prefer to emphasize good news and leave the baseless speculation from Sanders cynics to howl at the moon to their hearts' content.

[abqtommy]

17. Hillary was elected in 2016 without Bernie as the candidate. Where U been?

[Skidmore]

18. So how is it

right to extort the Democratic Party with Sanders voters will stay home if he's not the nominee, thereby contributing to a Trump win? How is it right to demand votes for him and not of his supporters in the general election should he not be the nominee? I understand that you support your candidate but not everyone does. Many people see Sanders as Trump's dream opponent. There is a reason Republicans are working so hard to get him on the ticket and to damage Biden. It's not because they suddenly love Sanders. Most Trump supporters have higher incomes than you assume or have other agendas. They are happy with him.

[CalFione]

21. {My Candidate} or Bust is the equivalent of hostage taking, and should not be rewarded

90% of people who say that are bluffing, even if they don't realize it at the time. That's why 85% of Bernie supporters voted for Hillary in 2016 and why 80% of Hillary supporters voted for Obama in 2008.


I desperately want someone other than Bernie to be the nominee, but I will vote for him over Trump. The question is not who people on Democratic Underground will vote for - it is who that 10% sliver in the middle of the general electorate will vote for.

[HarlanPepper]

22. Vote for Bernie or else, etc.

[Gothmog]

23. trump really wants to run against a weak and unelectable candidate like sanders

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Demsrule86]

24. Enough voters to spoil maybe, maybe not... but not enough to win a general. We lose more votes than

we gain if he is the nominee...you need more than Democrats...you need the same folks who gave us the House...which we could lose by the way. I vote blue no matter who but I want a nominee who can beat Trump.

[doc03]

28. Let's see if if I understand I should vote for

Bernie because if he isn't our nominee his supporters won't vote at all?

[LongtimeAZDem]

32. We do indeed acknowledge that he has more supporters that would stay home if he isn't the nominee

That's why it's so maddening that his supporters have spent over three years trying to convince us it isn't true.

Thank you for owning up to it.

[TheSocialDem]

33. I'm not owning it

I’m saying if you believe that to be fact, wouldn’t it be the ‘pragmatic’ thing be to have him be the nominee..

If that is your belief, true or not

[LongtimeAZDem]

34. If a purported liberal would stay home rather than vote to oust Trump, then they cannot be

counted on either way.

So, the best strategy is to write them off, and appeal to moderates on both sides of the aisle, who will put the good of the country before petty extremism.

I think we can not only win that way, but that approach will also be a step in ending the partisan bickering that has deadlocked our country, and get us back to actual statesmanship.

And the threat of Bernie supporters staying home is not just something I pulled out of a hat; his supporters are saying exactly that all over the internet, the polls have shown that almost half will not commit to voting for the nominee, and his own campaign chair brags about voting third-party last time.

[TheSocialDem]

36. Anybody who doesn't vote for the Dem in the

General is an idiot. Bernie himself has said as much.

And yea based what you said it’s reasonable. We disagree on what we think will make a good campaign. I like bernies policies but I also am of the opinion a base campaign is the best GE strategy.

So i really think Bernie clean up against trump.

[LongtimeAZDem]

37. Sanders cannot win against Trump; if you thought the republican opposition to Clinton was fierce,

you haven't seen anything yet.