Bernie Sanders would be a disaster if he becomes our nominee..

[Peacetrain]

This is not a I hate Bernie Sanders because he is a Democratic Socialist. I do not know Bernie Sanders personally. We have seen him speak, and were more than a little disappointed.

At his speaking events in Iowa, he talked about how the corporates are killing us, and he wants MFA, free college, restore taxes to pay for it all.. Its wonderful cheering lines, but his payment process would increase social security taxes on us by 33% from what I can tease out because he is so vague on his proposals.

We have an infrastructure that is falling apart. The process of climate change if not addressed, then everything else is pointless. If you do not have potable water, arable land, and breathable air.. nothing else means squat. We cease to exist.

In all his years in Washington, he has written 3 bills, (2 naming post-offices) and signed on to other bills 200 times.


I have not even touched his choice and re-choice of people to run his campaign.. He just does not have the stuff.

[redstateblues]

1. +1000

[at140]

32. I will vote for Sanders

if he is the nominee.

[Magoo48]

195. Hell yes.

What is it about the Biden camp which makes them so paranoid of a progressive candidate?

[samnsara]

2. ill vote for him if hes the nom, but keeping my passport handy

[MoonRiver]

6. Lol, same here!

We're looking into Caribbean property, just in case.

[Perseus]

101. I believe that if Sanders wins

You will be able to get your "Universal Healthcare" even being in the island, a question is if the island will recognize a USA "Universal Insurance", you will also be eligible for "Free Education", that is of course if the island accepts it, but nonetheless you can always come back home and claim your free services.

I am keeping my passport updated in case we Democrats screw things up by creating animosity between supporters and the creature wins another term, then things will really get ugly, but for Sanders? I think I can live with that.

I can live with any Democrat candidate winning.

[MoonRiver]

138. We'd keep two residences.

Hubby is still a full time employed professor, so we wouldn't be gone all year. Still, it would give us the feeling of an escape route.

[Desert grandma]

128. Same here.

Our passports are handy too. Not in case Sanders wins the nomination, but because he will surely lose the GE. We will not live under 4 more years of the Orange Maggot and his corrupt administration.

[MoonRiver]

139. YES! If Sanders were to miraculously win the GE, no problem. But we seriously doubt he can. eom

[trueblue2007]

191. But we seriously doubt he can. Especially with his bad heart. He should retire and live gently.

I am doing that ... i have congestive heart failure

[MoonRiver]

198. I'm sorry about your condition, but you are doing the correct things.

My husband has a heart murmur and will need surgery at some point. He is 78 now, and is doing everything he can to put off surgery as long as possible.

[Meowmee]

232. Lol

Yes, my passports are up to date. Bernie will be ripped to shreds in a general imo.

[Bleacher Creature]

3. K&R

You're probably going to take a bit of grief, but I agree with you 100%.

[MontanaFarmer]

4. Here's what i can't figure out:

65-70% of our party can see right through him. He's a policy lightweight, and i believe it was Martin o'Malley and even Hillary referring recently to him basically as conning folks into supporting him. How and why does he have such durable support from a decently large faction of our party? Makes no sense.

[CalFione]

5. the 70% of us need to pick ONE candidate

[MontanaFarmer]

25. Agreed.

We will get there. It's early yet, and proportional delegate allocation buys time to consolidate. The desire to oust trump among the dem rank and file is so strong i really think much of this primary fight will be forgotten the instant it's over. I suspect a recent former president is waiting in the wings to help facilitate that also.

[CalFione]

53. I agree. Obama is the guy who

will bring everyone together in Milwaukee.

[Callado119]

165. I wish I could agree with that there's still time..

Looking at the polls coming out today, the anti-sanders candidates are so fractured with no one able to consolidate support, that sanders could build an insurmountable lead winning just 25 to 30 percent of the vote on Super Tuesday. Then we’re all doomed.
People need to put their egos aside and start dropping out NOW

[Maribelle]

212. I have a theory on the polls, and I could be wrong but ...

I hear Trump sending out strong hints to Trump Lemmings who could be pretending they are Sanders supports from time to time.

[at140]

41. I will tell you why Sanders is receiving durable support

because the Trump economy is benefiting the top 10% but the middle 70% are hurting.
Middle class can not afford the high cost of sending kids to good colleges.
And middle class is drowning in debt, because they must borrow to keep up with ballooning costs of housing and healthcare. The bottom 20% is basically marching in place.

Sanders may not be their first choice, but middle class is desperate for a serious change and only 2 candidates are talking serious change. It is the Trump policies causing support for Sanders.

[Kerrycrat]

49. That explains 2020

But it doesn’t explain 2016, before Trump

[at140]

69. 2016 was a different situation from what is in 2020

so the 2 situations can not be explained by the same reasons.

[hedda_foil]

71. Actually it does. The same circumstances prevailed though less obvious to many in 2016.

After the crash of 2008, millions were far worse off than they had been. careers lost, homes foreclosed, companies moved abroad, all of that was affecting a huge segment of the population despite Obama's best efforts. Much of that was due to Republican obstruction, though some of it was exacerbated by the prevailing neoliberal philosophy of both parties. Bernie and Trump both appealed to that segment of voters. Trump added a heavy dose of racism and ugliness, but he promised great health care, great jobs, infrastructure, etc. In other words, the economic policies he advanced at the time were liberal. He didn't mean it. Bernie did and still does. That doesn't mean he will be able to get Congress to pass most of what he wants, but he's well aware of that.

[Kerrycrat]

85. I see what you're saying

I was reacting to the “durable” support. Durable makes me think of last election as well as this one

[redqueen]

91. Excellent summary.

[mountain grammy]

109. Well said.

[tecelote]

189. Thanks for this!

[certainot]

196. analyzing politics while democrats ignore talk radio is like studying fish w/out water

trump is the result of democrats ignoring talk radio for 30 years

bernie's popularity and trump's 'success' in 2016 has to be measured against 20 years of talk radio hate for clinton, with the benghazi email event being the latest

trump had sasm nunberg listen to "1000s of hours of talk radio" in 2014 yet talk radio is so far off the radar MSNBC caan have nunberg on 50 times and never ask about that.

limbaugh spent the primaries making excuses for trump while dissing their establishment candidates bush, rubio and still doing the clinton hate

what was that worth? at $1000/hr x 15hrs/day x 1200 coordinated radio stations following limbaugh make being able to feed him from mara lago or russia worth about $5BIL/yr FREE. ignoring 30 years of that made single payer impossible, not lack of effort by obama or dem establishment - all of this still being pushed 15 pts right because dems continue to ignore talk radio or wait for it to fall aapart on its own and wait for accidents like limbaugh's lung cancer

there will be no national fact based discussion about candidates or issues we aren't letting them interfere with. all these candidates and their advisors and dem and prog leadership continue the biggest political mistake in history.

all a candidate has to do is mention on one of the 87 major unis that broadcast sports on 260 limbaugh stations how fucking stupid that is and that will blow it all up, getting a huge ridiculous howl about "free speech!" from the right, and causing the ad industry to destroy the only advantage trump has. or maybe a michael moore, who says we're doomed without GOTV, who ignores thaat university of michigan 7 and michigan state 11 support 18 limbaugh stations while they excuse global warming, lead in water, school privatization, trumpism, etc....

and yet thousand of students at those universities will be all over social media and the internet analyzing and blaming symptoms of ignoring talk radio - like studying fish without water

all the doom is bullshit and the russian trump interference is miniscule to what dems could do merely by pushing the talk radio monopoly and that $5BIL/year off a cliff.

[McKim]

225. Great post, we need real change!

Great post, we need real change. When 42% of children in my local public schools are on free lunch, you know something is very wrong. Just take a ride on a public bus to see how downtrodden people look, sad and hopeless. The Democratic Party used to respresent those folks.
They are still waiting for Hope and Change. For any moderate democrat who can truthfully offer a Sanders/Warren platform, the world is your oyster!

[progressoid]

82. The economy that benefits the top and squeezes the middle has been going on for a few decades

It made a critical turn with the policies of Ronnie Raygun and sadly often aided and abetted by Democrats. Sanders voters, and to some extent Warren voters, are tired of waiting for the promises of incremental changes to happen.

[Kerrycrat]

88. I get that

But the “how” still needs to be explained

[redstateblues]

115. It's more than 10%. Maybe it's because I live in a town that is booming.

There are people that are hurting here for sure but it's not 70%. They can't build houses and condos fast enough for people that are moving here. Running on the economy is not going to win this election unless there is a recession

[at140]

121. I don't think you quite understood my post

It is not the economy in the sense that people are jobless. Actually there are abundant jobs. The problem is something else for the middle class, which is that costs of healthcare, housing, food are escalating faster than their incomes are rising. And check tuitions in good colleges. So people with jobs are buying houses and it looks like prosperity, but it is a mirage because the mortgage loans are also high and the debt levels are rising.

The reason top 10% have benefited most because they received 85% of the tax cut dollars and they own lion's share of the stocks which are booming.

[ouija]

116. Yup

[Happy Hoosier]

218. Although I support Warren...

... my own opinion that is that "serious change" can wait until we've averted disaster. It's a sirens call. Fool's gold. WE cannot affect change if we cannot win. And I think Sanders is a loser in the GE. I hope I'm wrong, but feel pretty firmly I'm not.

[at140]

230. Of couse Warren is my 1st choice ...

my post was simply trying to explain why so many voters are supporting Sanders.
DU posters are more astute politically, the general voting population is not as sophisticated.

[Perseus]

108. Sure it does, all the candidates have a history, and some have done things that are not that great

Amy has her baggage like anyone else, but any Democratic candidate will be better than trump, and unless we as Democrats screw up, any of our candidates will beat him.

Like Michael Moore said, "Democrats can win in November, we just have to wait and see if the manage to screw this one too."

And our bickering will help screw things up. Let voters decide, you are not going to turn anyone to support Amy, or Biden, or anyone else by bashing the other candidates, it just doesn't work.

[JoeDuck]

194. I agree about bickering.

Some folks are posting so many reasons why this candidate or that candidate can't win, or can't improve things, or who makes them hang onto their passports so they can flee the country if so-and-so wins, it is making me wonder if I should just stay home on election day because no candidate deserves my vote. And I have been a Democrat since I registered to vote in 1961.

[redstateblues]

114. Free college draws big crowds in college towns

Bernie promises a lot of things that will never happen. Just like MFA in Vermont

[hughee99]

193. It's not complicate why people support him.

We accuse republicans of supporting candidates who offer them things they want that “someone else” will pay for. Why is it that this mentality should be automatically exclusively republican?

[Rorey]

7. I agree, but if he does win the nomination, I'll campaign hard

As I'll do no matter who wins it.

I'm begging Sanders supporters to make the same pledge. BEGGING.

[Demsrule86]

22. Personally, I will vote for Sanders and GOTV but my emphasis would be on saving the house so...

at least we can stop some of Trumps horrific shit and maybe save the ACA. We will lose all health care if Trump wins...probably and for sure if the house falls...

[joost5]

37. And the Senate.

If we fail to flip the Senate, it doesn't matter what wonderful proposals pass through the House. Moscow Mitch will continue blocking everything.

Need a moderate to help elect Dems up and down the ticket to flip the Senate and keep the House. It's imperative we ditch Mitch.

[Demsrule86]

87. If Sanders is the nominee we are not going to flip the Senate. The seats we need are

in red and purples states.

[Rorey]

60. I am usually an eternal optimist

But I'm also a realist. I'm definitely terrified.

[Demsrule86]

95. And we should be terrified and those of us who think Sanders won't win need to give up our candidate

and coalesce around one candidate so we can stop Sanders without a messy convention. If Biden doesn't do really well in Carolina, I will switch to Bloomberg. I don't see Buttigieg, Kobabachar or Warren (she would be great though) winning a general at this point.

[Rorey]

103. Valid point

I need to be a little closer to Super Tuesday before commitment.

[Demsrule86]

136. I agree...Carolina is all important for Biden...so we shall see.

[joost5]

125. Just going to leave this here.....

Link to tweet

I’m not a Democrat, so I’m not telling Democrats what to do. And I’m not saying any of the other Dem candidates couldn’t beat Trump. Maybe they all could. But here’s what I know FOR CERTAIN:
@amyklobuchar would absolutely kick Trump’s ass in November. She’d beat him. For sure.

[LuvNewcastle]

133. I agree with Walsh.

I think Klobuchar would wipe the floor with Trump. If we were going to nominate a woman, she would be perfect, although she's a wonderful candidate regardless of gender. I'm thinking it's going to be her or Bloomberg that the moderates coalesce around. A Klobuchar/Bloomberg ticket would be great, if you could get Bloomberg to be VP, but the reverse would be a strong ticket as well. It would be respectable for a change.

[Demsrule86]

137. I like Amy but she will not be the nominee...she doesn't have AA support...the sooner she gets out

after Carolina ...super Tuesday at the latest, the better. I would prefer that the moderates who are not going to win drop before super Tuesday.

[demosincebirth]

31. Sorry, but I think they'll take their bat and ball and go home.

[Rorey]

52. I hope not

But I fear so.

[redstatebluegirl]

65. Me too, they will get butt hurt and want to blow up the system again.

[calimary]

74. That's my fear, also.

McGovern redux.

[Happy Hoosier]

219. You're not wrong.

After spending the weekend with some hard core Sandernistas, they are convinced only their guy is worth supporting. It's a cult of personality.

[Fresh_Start]

8. 7 bills he sponsored were enacted

he wrote more bills but they never enacted

[Kerrycrat]

58. And to be fair

They call him the amendment king for a reason

[Fresh_Start]

70. about that..

did you see his amendment king period was upto 2007?
I checked after 2007, only 2 roll call amendments passed.
2 Roll call amendments which passed:
2015-2016 S.Amdt.386 - To establish a deficit-neutral reserve fund to protect Medicaid beneficiaries from benefit cuts.
2009-2010 S.AMDT.3738 - To require the non-partisan Government Accountability Office to conduct an independent audit of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System that does not interfere with monetary policy, to let the American people know the names of the recipients of over $2,000,000,000,000 in taxpayer assistance from the Federal Reserve System, and for other purposes.

[DanTex]

9. All those things that he speaks about that you think would be a disaster...

Polls show the majority of Americans support them.

[redstateblues]

11. Wait til someone presses him on how he pays for it all

Raising taxes is a GE loser. Taxing billionaires won't pay for everything

[DanieRains]

35. Actually The Billionaires Have 50 Trillion In Wealth - Yes They Can Pay

I feel sorry so many of my friends here are so confused about the math stuff.

The estimates of their wealth (which they keep hidden) is between 30 trillion and 60 trillion.

We are in so much trouble because they don't pay for hardly anything, and profit while the planet burns.

Time to fix it.

[joost5]

39. +1 nt

[Meadowoak]

66. +1

[Kerrycrat]

75. Do you really think

They will stand still for that? That they won’t find tax loopholes to save what they have? We’d have to have a Senate and House chock full of progressives to even get much of what Bernie proposes enacted.

It comes down to how again. He’s not going to be elected king. He can’t just do these things with a decree.

[oldsoftie]

105. And the fact that its hidden means you wont be ABLE to tax it.

There are so many ways to hide assets. And if you force people to just call themselves citizens of "X" to avoid taxes, they will.
In Europe EVERYBODY PAYS. Why is that so hard to understand over HERE?

[redstateblues]

142. So you just strip them of all their money?

Yeah great idea! Another GE losing idea.

[DanieRains]

190. Have Them Pay Taxes Like I Have To

A winning message.

[redstateblues]

236. I'm good with that. However that would not pay

For all of Bernie’s plans. That will require a tax increase. How much? He won’t tell us now.

[DanieRains]

238. Counting Corpses Is A Better Idea?

Others do it.

[KPN]

227. +++

[Kerrycrat]

61. That's the thing

It’s not the what.

It’s the how.

Specifics would be nice

[dware]

14. The majority of Americans support him? Really?

So most conservatives support him?
Most Independents support him?
Most Moderates support him?

Yeah? I don't think so, just wait until the Trump campaign starts putting out the oppo they have on him, it will be a disaster for our Party, especially down ballot Democrats.

You can kiss the House goodbye, and any chance of regaining the Senate.

I know you disagree with this, and that's ok by me, but I'm closer to the truth of what will happen than you are IMO.

And as far as polls go, the same polls had HRC winning by a landslide in 2016, so excuse me if I have a healthy skepticism about polls.

[DanTex]

29. Check the polls.

And if you don’t believe in polls, then what are you basing your belief that Bernie’s policies are unpopular on?

[dware]

169. I'm basing my beliefs on what I hear from ordinary people I meet

on the road, at pick ups, at deliveries, at truck stops, etc, the overwhelming thought is that Bernie will lose big time and we'll be stuck with the Mango Menace for another 4 years.

Truck drivers especially are fucking pissed off because of the tariffs Trump has put in place, it has impacted us like no other industry out there, especially us owner/operators.

So go on and keep believing the polls, I'll believe what I hear out in the actual public, and if Bernie becomes our candidate and, as more likely will happen, he gets hammered in the GE, then don't be surprised or put off when those of us that tried to warn about what was going to happen tell you I told you so.

[DanTex]

171. OK. Do those people say they won't vote Bernie? Or just afraid other people won't.

I was an HRC supporter in 2016, basically for the reasons you describe. The polls actually had Bernie doing much better than HRC versus Trump, but the conventional wisdom was that Bernie couldn't win, and that HRC would walk all over Trump. Then HRC lost, and some Bernie people did say "I told you so."

Which I thought was pretty rude of them. But they kind of had a point. And they kind of had a point again when this election came around, that trying to run a centrist no-too-inspiring candidate against Trump was basically trying the same thing and expecting different results.

[dware]

173. It's a mix, some say they will never vote for a socialist,

some are Trump supporters, some just won't vote if Bernie is the candidate or will vote for Trump.

The bottom line is that there's a lot of angst among the ordinary working people about Trump and Bernie, and the polls just don't seem to get that, I actually wonder if they get out and talk to the ordinary working people or if they just sit in their offices and just call people.


Any way you look at it, IMO, if Bernie is our nominee, then prepare for another 4 years of the Mango Menace and the almost certain loss of the House and no chance to retake the Senate.

Just my learned opinion.

[kstewart33]

89. This a million times.

Especially losses in the down ballot races.

[Demsrule86]

20. They don't support losing private insurance nor the taxes that would be required to give free loans

even to billionaires...no income cap on Sander's free college.

[DanTex]

27. You should check the polls for M4A and free college.

[Demsrule86]

34. You should check the polls when people are told they lose work insurance... and you should check the

polls on taxes for these pricey policies...I personally object to paying for millionaire's and billionaires kids to go to school. Warren's plan is better...there should be a cap. Sanders own family members would get free tuition, and he is a millionaire.

[DanieRains]

38. Instead Of Losing Insurance They Would Get Better Insurance And A Raise So Their Employers

Can pay less for healthcare.

Let the untaxed 1% pay for it.

And it will be guaranteed.

Hard to get past the fear stuff though.

[handmade34]

54. you got it...

yes, people like the idea of stuff and thinking people understand realities... but... trump and the Republicans have instilled irrational fears into a percentage of people we need to win this (irrational fear of socialism, taxes, loss of freedom, etc.)

my example continues to be right here in Vermont... Vermont likes Bernie, Vermont votes for Bernie, Vermont is not like any other state.... yet, even with our progressive support of Bernie, Vermont cannot get done the policies Bernie advocates... and we know those people in the swing states sure as hell are not buying into his talk

national polls are one thing, electoral college is another

[Kerrycrat]

67. That's a good point

People look hard at Pete’s record in South Bend, but I never hear much about Bernie’s record, or influence, in Vermont

[Demsrule86]

80. I don't agree with that...after looking at Medicare for my sis in law...I am unimpressed. I can only

imagine the horror of having a president like Trump in control of M4A...and the GOP raising taxes and cutting benefits whenever they are elected...there would be shitty basic coverage in my opinion. I prefer the ACA with a public option...now I have private insurance and would not want M4A period at this time. I see no purpose in trashing the ACA and starting over. If the public option is popular, we will end up with universal coverage anyway....and even AOC admits M4A won't pass Congress. The fear you speak of is rational...no one has any idea how much it will cost and what the benefits will be in the end.

[MontanaMama]

152. There's no evidence that employers

would give their employees raises IF they’re paying less for healthcare. That’s a big leap.

[DanTex]

55. You mean the push-polls where they tell people right-wing talking points before asking?

Yeah, that pushes the number down LOL. And if you tell people positive things about M4A then the number goes up.

And free college polls well also, even though you don't like it. Don't worry, you wouldn't be paying for anyone's college unless you are extremely wealthy. And Warren agrees, by the way. The person who wants to means-test it is Pete.

[Demsrule86]

83. The numbers go down in every poll when folks are told that they lose work insurance...it is what

destroyed Clinton care...the ACA is a proven winner for us...M4A is not.

[DanTex]

92. And they go up when folks are told that there won't be premiums or copays.

Nobody is surprised that poll numbers can be changed depending on what pollsters tell people. But if they just describe the policy without any pro- or anti- talking points, it has majority support.

[Demsrule86]

107. And that is an out and out lie...there is no free insurance. There would still be the need for a

Last edited Tue Feb 18, 2020, 03:02 PM - Edit history (1)

wrap around and payroll taxes would go way up. Telling people there will be free insurance is a lie. And I have no doubt in the end, there will be copays and deductibles... In Canada that everyone talks about...they don't pay for prescriptions... and the UK has been cutting benefits. What we will end up with is basic insurance where much is not covered.

And I have no doubt the right wing courts would do a number on it even if it passed...and during the process we lose the ACA which has already been hurt by Sander's push for M4A. We are fighting for the ACA in court...and it gives the judges almost permission to find against it...I will never forgive Sanders if the ACA goes down as real people will be hurt. And there is no chance even according to AOC that M4A can pass congress. Putting every American on M4A would

[DanTex]

110. No it isn't. That's the way M4A works, no premiums, copays, or deductibles.

You might think it's misleading, but it's not nearly as misleading to tell people their private insurance will be taken away.

That's the whole point, though. Once you get into telling people talking points, you can move the poll numbers one way or the other depending on whose talking points you use. But if you poll without talking points, M4A has majority support.

And how exactly has Bernie hurt ACA? By voting for it? What?

[Demsrule86]

134. The taxes would be unaffordable and take a bigger bite than any deductible,premium or co-pays...and

since private insurance would be outlawed excep I suppose for pricey wraps... it is not misleading...private insurance would go away. And it would be unaffordable for most IMHO. And little by little as the years go by...coverage would decline and copays and deductibles would be back.

[Go Vols]

237. .

[MrsCoffee]

197. He disrupted poorly.

[Demsrule86]

229. True that...

[redstateblues]

143. Bernie's brilliant ruse. Promising things he knows he can never deliver

Promising free college in college towns. He did that last time and lost by 3 million votes.

[LanternWaste]

84. Pretending agenda and mechanism are one in the same is another of your flawed premises

Even so... another series of allegations unsupported by provided data (i.e., none) isn't going to convince anyone other than his flock or anything, any more that yelling 2+2=22 will.

[DanTex]

98. Well, Bernie's "flock" is larger than any other candidate's "flock", and it's keeps growing,

so apparently people are, in fact, joining the "flock" of the candidate who proposes policies that are widely popular.

[rzemanfl]

154. "Flock" is so damn tempting.

I won't though.

[zackymilly]

160. I bet his flock is bigger than Bloomberg's flock. nt

[rzemanfl]

162. Flock that. n/t

[zackymilly]

163. Maybe they will compare flocks at the NV debate.

There will be some stiff competition.

[rzemanfl]

164. How old RU? I'm 72.

[ouija]

117. Yup

[CousinIT]

10. Agree.

If he is the nominee he'll get my vote. But Dems would lose in 40 states.

[aikoaiko]

12. I see you have moved on from "I'm just going to talk positively about my preferred candidate"

If Bernie's our candidate, it will be alright.

About the same level of alright if its Joe, Elizabeth, Amy, Pete, or even Bloomberg.

[Demsrule86]

17. If it comes between Bloomberg and Sanders, Bloomberg has my vote as he can beat Trump.

[PatSeg]

21. I really hate to admit it,

but yes, I would vote for Bloomberg over Sanders. As a person, I like Sanders better, but Bloomberg would be a better president. Hopefully, I won't have to.

[Demsrule86]

23. I would prefer Sanders as well even though I don't like him but I don't think he wins a general...

and all his talk about not taking money etc...means a terrible loss and probably the house as well.

[PatSeg]

146. Yeah, I'm afraid Sanders would be crushed

in a general election and if we lose both the house and the senate in the process, we're done as a democracy.

[dem4decades]

59. Bloomberg will help win the Senate and keep the House too.

I'm all in for Mike if it comes down between him and Bernie.

[ProfessorPlum]

81. you nailed it

[cilla4progress]

13. Compare Obama's Senate careeer?

Certain amount of symbolism, statement, in his campaign. It represents something. Millenials ready to go for broke. Much like trumpers supposedly were - pissed off at being ignored. Not much to lose with climate change, corruption.

This from a nephew working on the campaign.

[JudyM]

15. Effectiveness is not about the number of bills, it's about impact. He has cosponsored and led the

negotiation effort on some significant bills, these for example:
https://www.brookings.edu/research/profiles-in-negotiation-the-veterans-deal-of-2014/
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-moves-to-rescue-yemen-withdrawal-after-house-screwed-it-up

[Demsrule86]

16. +10000

[PatSeg]

18. Bernie Sanders is an activist

and apparently a very effective one, but I cannot see him as an effective president. That takes a very different type of person. President of the United States is one of the most complex jobs imaginable and takes a unique set of skills and abilities.

I don't see those skills and abilities in Sanders. Can he compromise and bend when necessary and will he surround himself with experienced, knowledgeable people? If so, will he listen to them? By the looks of his campaign staff, it does not appear that he is a discerning leader. Are these the people he will take with him to the White House? Will we be trading one circus for another that's not so bad?

I've liked Bernie Sanders for many years. I liked him as an outspoken voice for more progressive policies, but what I'm seeing now is changing my opinion of him. Is he being driven by his genuine desire for positive change or has his ego taken the wheel? I suppose it is inevitable that those huge crowds could go to one's head (ask Beto O'Rourke), and maybe he has been swept up in the excitement that he created.

In Sanders I see a barn burner style activist, who can draw large crowds and excite people, but I don't see a diplomat, a problem solver, a decision maker, or a Commander-in-Chief.

[MasonDreams]

141. Yea, Bernie is just an activist not a real leader like Gandhi or Nelson Mandela.

He's just a rabble-rouser like Martin Luther King or Jesus.

[PatSeg]

147. Sorry

Gandhi was an inspirational leader, but he was not a governmental leader. Martin Luther King or Jesus? Neither of them were president. There are different kinds of leaders who serve different purposes.

Mandela was president, but I really don't see too many similarities between him and Sanders.

As for being an activist, there is nothing wrong with that. We need our activists and Bernie was good at it. That is a different kind of leader, than President of the United States. There are many ways to serve, clearly not everyone can be president and obviously many should not. If an idealist thinks the only way he/she can bring about change is by being president, then they are a little too full of themselves. Do they truly want to serve or do they want the power and adulation that comes with high office?

[MasonDreams]

149. Sorry, I really am trying not to be angry and defensive, but drumf happened

I just got triggered and activated. All my heros got their heads busted and jailed for US. Women can vote, children don't work in the mines, and the 14th Amendment is the law.

"Service to others is Man's highest calling." I think that one was Buddha I could be wrong.

"Moderation in temper is always a virtue, but moderation in principle is always a vice." I know that was Thomas Paine. Principle, I think is the best guard against the corruption of power and vanity.

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't Bernie say "US not me" every day?
"Stronger Together" was Hillary's and it can't be said enough.

"We can work it out" Beatles

[PatSeg]

150. There all kinds of leaders

and as I said, they each serve a purpose. Not everyone is cut out to be a president, but they certainly can make a difference in other ways.

As for Bernie Sanders, I've always like him, but never saw him as president.

1) I'm afraid he will lose a general election.

2) He does not have the necessary skills to bring about the changes he advocates. That takes compromise and diplomacy, not just lofty rhetoric. What plays well at rallies, doesn't always work in the White House and congress.

3) His hiring choices for his campaign staff really concern me. He doesn't seem to have a lot of control over them and will he bring them to the White House? Or hire more people like them?

4) Will he release his full medical record? Normally I wouldn't make a big deal out of that one, but he just had a heart attack and people his age usually have another within approximately three years. People had a right to be concerned under the circumstances.

Bernie helped pull the party further to the left and that is a really good thing, but I think he could have served the country better by not running this time and helping other Democrats in their elections. Things are starting to feel as divisive now as they were in 2016 and I'm afraid they will get worse. Everyone who is paying attention is on edge. You are not alone.

[MasonDreams]

156. We must unite somehow, I have doubts about all our candidates, we need a sure thing so badly.

Where's Howard Dean? I liked him. Gen. Wesley Clark? Opra can run a big operation. I'd vote for Tom Hanks or Jimmy Kimmel at this point.

[PatSeg]

157. I liked to see Howard Dean running the DNC again

He was really good at his job!

Hey, who wouldn't vote for Tom Hanks???

[lapucelle]

217. It's Mike Bloomberg who is the sucessful grassroots activist.

Bloomberg's activism is other-centered, rather than self-centered.

https://everytown.org/who-we-are/

[totodeinhere]

19. You are entitled to your opinion. But we all need to get behind whoever the nominee turns out

to be and that includes Bernie if he gets the nomination. But the way this race is going I am afraid that there might be hard feelings on the part of supporters of some losing candidates no mater who wins the nomination.

[redstatebluegirl]

24. Truth, if he is our nominee I dust off my passport and avoid the rush.

[DanieRains]

43. And Leave The Rest Of Us To Fix The Help The Rich Screw The Poor Economy We Have Now

Right?

Pay your taxes so the wealthy don't have to.

http://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1891335_1891333_1891317,00.html

It's ok.

I will stay and fight for a better future for mankind.

[DanieRains]

45. Leona Served Her Sentence For Tax Evasion In Her Mansion

Here is the quote.

Leona Helmsley will always be remembered for one of the most arrogant statements ever uttered: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." A touching sentiment from the New York hotel tycoon widely dubbed the "Queen of Mean" but not one shared by a jury of her peers. In 1989 Helmsley received 16 years in prison for a wide variety of tax offenses resulting in several million dollars owed. And in a fitting bit of chronology, the judge ordered her prison sentence to start on April 15 — Tax Day!

Good thing she wasn't from the hood.

[nobuddy]

26. have no fear

Bloomberg got this

[wnylib]

104. This does not reassure me.

Sanders vs Bloomberg = passport.

[democratisphere]

28. Totally agree.

It will insure republican rule for 4 more years.

[apcalc]

30. I honestly think we need to change the TONE of politics going forward.

One reason I support Amy, and other Dems too.

These old men who yell and are angry...nope, not for me.

We have one in office now....no more.

Change the tone, ..disagree, but listen.

[jmbar2]

33. This

[Demsrule86]

42. All moderates need to drop out except the one who is leading and has a chance to win the nomination.

Otherwise, we nominate Sanders which would be disastrous in the general. Amy, Buttigieg, Biden and now Bloomberg are splitting the vote...we need a clean convention where we nominate someone who can win.

[yaesu]

36. Well, no one is perfect, like with Biden stripping bankruptcy protection from millions of Americans

just before the last recession. He pushed for & voter for the 2005 Bankruptcy bill. I'm just not sure he has we the peoples best interests in mind.

[Demsrule86]

46. Such bullshit...that bill was so watered down...anyone can get a bankruptcy...helped both my sis

and my sis in law...it was simple. And my sis got a chapter 7 despite a six figure income. The only change needed is to put student loans back into bankruptcy...right now it is very tough. Basically there are now some income restrictions which one can get around, you keep your cars and home...sis kept two homes...and you take two cheap courses. That's it folks. Warren's plan where a person must surrender his/her property for a chapter 7 would be harsher than what we have now.

[Cartoonist]

64. I'm leaning to not voting for Biden in the general election.

Go ahead, dump on me. I can't support him for that vote and lack of apology since. I want an honest person as president.

I live in CA. If my vote is needed to keep CA blue, then Trump already won.

[JustAnotherGen]

40. I'm concerned about some of his positions in the 80's

Coming back to bite him in the GE. Even in the early 90's. Not a Catholic - but went to a Catholic High School and University. Remember the nuns . . .

[apcalc]

178. Positions of 30 to 40 years ago??? What?

Nuts to that.

[dware]

181. You don't think the Trump campaign

won't hammer Bernie 24/7 with ads showing him praising Castro? Praising Communism?
Praising Central American dictators?

You can say nuts to that all you want, but it will cause us to have another 4 years of the Mango Menace and the loss of the House and no chance to retake the Senate.

[apcalc]

185. You're right. It's fair game. They will use it.

[dware]

186. There's really nothing fair about it,

but, then again, what's fair about Trump?

[apcalc]

187. Fair game from their point of view, that is.

[dware]

188. +100, nt

[JustAnotherGen]

222. figured someone else would explain it

They are going to use the three S formula.

Also - very good friends (40 years - since we were little kids and they arrived in the USA) with two Nicaraguan men whose maternal grandparents were murdered, and they fled to the USA soon after. I've known Moises and Danny since grade school, they both attended my father's funeral from out of state -

And I'm on their side. Not some career politicians. They don't like Sanders. They just don't.

[hurple]

44. Hate to say this...

But, I have seen a small portion of the oppo documents the R's have in case of a Sanders candidacy.

They are devastating.

I seriously doubt Sanders could win with what they plan to run against him.

Would love to be wrong, though.

[DanieRains]

47. Yep Having Rich People Pay Their Fair Share Is So Unpopular

Bernie could never get elected.....

And healthcare for all.

Craaaaazy.

And for half price.

[Squinch]

167. What do they say???? Spill!

[David__77]

48. What's wrong with a 33% increase in Social Security taxes?

...

[Botany]

50. We would lose almost every state

n/t

[dalton99a]

63. +1. And with down-ballot effects for Democrats.

[rocktivity]

51. But could he beat Trump by a cheatproof margin ANYWAY?

Because if so, it's the Dems who have the problem -- what is it that they're not supplying to voters aside from not being Trump?

As Jon Stewart once said to Tom Vilsack, "THAT'S your strategy -- 'We're not going to suck QUITE as much?'"


rocktivity

[KPN]

56. I'm voting for either Sanders or Warren -- depending on who appears most viable as far as winning

the nomination in May. If neither, then I may consider one of our other candidates (most likely Klobuchar) but only then. Personally, I have more faith in a Sanders candidacy winning the White House than any of our candidates.

I've read and researched enough to be comfortable with their proposals which many here cast as pie-in-the-sky or lacking sufficient details regarding funding. There are sufficient details in my opinion and it's time the wealthiest nation in the world actually works for the majority of the people in that nation. Getting there through the election process is the only viable means.

[Meadowoak]

68. +1

[gristy]

140. +2

[Kerrycrat]

57. The things you say you haven't touched on...

I’d like to hear more. I like that you aren’t just saying no, but saying why. It’s good to think on and good for having discussions with Sanders folk. If nothing else I can challenge them to think and answer these concerns.

Hopefully without hostility. The most I get some days is “nice try” like all I was trying to do was take him down. So defensive.

[Movbez4]

62. Agree

Unfortunately, I agree with you! Sanders would be the Jeremy Corbin of the USA if he is the nominee. Sanders has been in the Senate for 16 years, and really has failed to pass almost any meaningful bills that he has written. His backers are alienating people that might per chance vote for him in a General Election with their hostile attacks on the rest of the DEM field, they should instead be putting this anger towards Trump.

[grantcart]

72. McGovern 2.0

It's not that We didn't try it once before.

This is why we got super delegates.

[at140]

78. If Sanders has won the most delegates,

you wish to deny him nomination at the convention using super delegates?
How did that turn out in 2016?

[grantcart]

153. Exactly if we don't give the interloper the party he will undermine the GE

Plurality means nothing

He has to get 51%

Last time he got 44% and this time he is running at about half that. We should all line up behind the guy who lost to the person who lost (*) to Trump.

Sanders, who had a 4 year lead against everyone else and a huge war chest is not going to get the nomination, he will again pout and cry about the unfairness except he started with a huge advantage.

He won't have a majority of the delegates on the first ballot. Super delegates were created after McGovern.

Why us it that Superdelegates who include all the elected colleagues that know him better than you do refused to support him but would be delighted for anyone else including Warren?

Because they know him better than you do.

[Turin_C3PO]

172. Your scenario would be awful for the party.

If Bernie comes in with the most delegates and is denied the nomination, our party would split and there would be a complete revolt from the Left. And, ultimately, we’ll lose to Trump. Badly.

[grantcart]

231. If you don't have 51% you don't have the nomination

If you a plurality and cannot secure 51% then you don't have the skills needed to win the GE or run the country.

Assembling a working majority is a basic skill for winning the election and governing.

No one is denying anyone anything. Get to 51% or get defeated, this is not checkers, this brutal political competition to get the most potent powerful political position in the world.

Sanders won't get it.

He will insulate that corrupt politicians took it from him because he is the only pure one. He will validate various economic nationalist positions that he shares with Trump.

We will get 4 more years of despotism.

[MrsCoffee]

209. Great post.

[progressoid]

94. Except Sanders has something McGovern didn't have.

A personality.

[grantcart]

151. $ 50 Trillion give aways over first 10 years

He will be demolished in the first 48 hours.

Sanders personality? Beyond toxic. An embittered man that is 100% doom and gloom. This is a man who had virtually no colleague support 4 years ago.

But you want to know how much he is personally disliked? All these decades and he hasn't gotten a single piece of major legislation passed.

Now compare that to relatively new comer Senator Warren who is responsible for Consumer Finance Bureau.

Sanders had a 4 year head start and is running at about half what he did last time around

McGovern was well liked and a veteran.

But I will give your Sanders 10 states, up from McGovern's 1.

[mntleo2]

73. I will vote for Sanders

...What surprised me was my friend, who is pretty conservative and spent his career as a wonk in the city, state as well as for our electric company in OR. most generally do not get excited when the "opposite" wins. He has no opposition, he votes for whomever he believes is closest to his academic philosophy. He used to teach graduate school at uni for Marxist Economics.

He has a Doctorate in Political Science. We don't talk politics much but that is another story. Just say we are very close. He said he was going to vote in our primary for Bernie Sanders! Stunned I asked why and he said the most important thing he liked about him was that Bernie did not get disturbed with the cruel and sometimes assinine Trump tweets as well as the cruelty of everyone else. He also said Bernie has made the same stances for over 40 years and this is a sign of someone who will stick to his purpose no matter what Trump and his goonies do(my name for them, not his).

I will vote for Bernie too. I did delegate for him in the last election cycle. When HRC made the nomination I voted for her as a good Democrat does. I was sad when others were so hateful when our entire state went for Bernie, except for our "super delegates" who ignored and defied the democratic majority. It did cause some cracks in our majority of both sides of the Democratic Party that is still healing. I hope they will go for the majority this time, but most of them are corporate Dems.

I think my dear friend has some major points. While I was far ahead of him in my choice, but I do heed his insight as his knowledge of politics is profoundly deep. I think he can take Trump on and furthermore while I have little hope his stances will go very far with corporate Dems as well as Republicans in both houses, I am in hopes, as he has done in the past, his ideas will take hold within our population.

Hope this helps ...

Love, Cat in Seattle

[blakstoneranger]

76. I WILL VOTE FOR BERNIE IF HE IS THE NOMINEE

Much of bernie's agenda will be tempered by congress and senate. I CAN TAKE BERNIE FOR 4 YEARS---I CANNOT TAKE TRUMP.

[gab13by13]

77. Lot's of right wing talking points here,

We ran a moderate in 2016 and Trump won, anyone else but me see deja vu?

The polls that I see shows Bernie beating Trump. Where oh where are people coming up with Bernie losing? I thought we were supposed to be positive here and not divisive. I believe we will win with any one of our candidates. I'm not a doom and gloomer.

Moderates should relax former Republican Bloomberg is here to rescue us.

[Kerrycrat]

106. It wasn't that Hillary was moderate

It was that she was Hillary.

It depends on the moderate. For me, Biden and Bloomberg are meh. Pete in the other hand...

In other words it’s not as simple as you are saying.

[MrsCoffee]

214. She got millions more votes votes.

And it took treason to keep her from office.

But, yeah, it was because she was Hillary.

Whatevs.

[lapucelle]

216. Welcome to DU!

[Cha]

223. Yeah, Hillary is Awesome.. first woman Dem Candidate who

got 66 Million Votes! But the ******* Russians and other assorted Liars took her down. Like fucking jill stein's LIES and ssarandon who fed lies to the fans that "Hillary was more dangerous than trump".

[dware]

170. Oh bullshit!!!!!

There's no RW talking points here, there's robust debate.

Why is it that when someone disagree with the debate, they trot out that tired old RW talking points meme?

[lapucelle]

221. Hillary Clinton is a Hard-Core Liberal.

https://bit.ly/32jyh3j

[ProfessorPlum]

79. What are you even talking about?

increasing social security taxes?

His payment method is raising income taxes on the rich, among some other things, including a transaction tax on Wall Street and a small wealth tax on the obscenely rich.

Google the term "Amendment King" to find out about Sanders' legislative accomplishments.

Do some reading. go to his website. You might as well start getting used to the idea of him as the nominee. You may even learn something despite your "concerns".

[Submariner]

86. Elect a 79 year old heart attack victim to a job sure to trigger the 2nd heart attack

Does anyone seriously believe the country is going to vote a sick man as president? That would guarantee 4 more years of hell under Trump.

[gordianot]

99. As someone who had a MI I completely agree.

Totally unpredictable. Stints are wonderful, there is no cure.

[mntleo2]

102. Nah. Cheney had open heart surgery and that old goat is still alive n/t

[rzemanfl]

155. He has a heart from a human, not his own. n/t

[krakfiend]

135. why not

reagan had alzheimer. mccain had cancer, fdr was in a wheel chair, trump is morbidly obese. i'm sure other president's have also had heart problems. seems like you are just picking an excuse not to elect him. hillary had a small fainting spell, did you vote for her?

[Scotch-Irish]

224. As long as he makes Elizabeth Warren his running mate, he can do anything else he pleases.

I'll vote for whomever the majority of democrats choose as our candidate.

[Perseus]

90. Many people would say it would be a disaster if Biden becomes our nominee...Just an opinion

Just like your opinion about Sanders.

A lot of people happen to think quite opposite of what you say.

Can we stop this now please? So many people always blaming the Sanders supporters about this and that, and they may be right, but every time I see a post like this in DU, an anti-Sanders post, it is from a Biden supporter.

Can we please stop it? If anyone has read anything I have posted before they may be tired of this but, IT IS NOT GOING TO PLAY WELL FOR DEMOCRATS IF WE CONTINUE THIS BASHING OF OUR OWN CANDIDATES.

Why is it so hard for so many people to understand that ANY OF THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES ARE 1000 TIMES BETTER THAN TRUMP?

When will they learn that by bashing other candidates you are not going to make any converts to your candidate, on the contrary, you are just creating enemies.

PLEASE STOP!

[Gothmog]

93. Socialism would kill sanders and down ballot candidates

Link to tweet

[aeromanKC]

96. Bernie could win BUT

There is no way we win the Senate with Bernie on the ticket. The ones we need to win back the Senate in the swing and red states AZ, NC, KY, IA, MI, CO, KS, ME (Independents and sane GOP) will vote to get rid of Trump, but will then vote to stop a Socialist by keeping McConnell as their firewall to his policies.

[rickyhall]

97. As I've said before, I don't care who gets the nomination, I'll vote AGAINST dump!

[progressoid]

100. Climate Change? Is the Green New Deal not enough?

https://berniesanders.com/en/issues/green-new-deal/

[peoli]

118. Right?

There is nobody further ahead on climate change than Bernie Sanders

[progressoid]

145. It wasn't that long ago when people were complaining that the Green New Deal was

too much, too fast.

[Kerrycrat]

111. And I have a bad feeling that...

If Bernie gets the nomination an doesn’t do as well as his supporters thought he would, it will somehow not be his fault. They will blame it on the party, the media, someone other than Bernie.

[Fiendish Thingy]

112. Bloomberg would be a far bigger disaster

64 sexual harassment lawsuits!?!?

Voter turnout would likely be at record lows if Bloomberg is the nominee.

[SoFlaDem]

119. Also what message does it send for Democrats

If we elect a man who has paid Instagram influencers to endorse him and who had gained his popularity through slick ads rather than substance. We are supposed to be the party of the people, not the party for sale to the highest bidder. I cannot imagine this man truly has a any interest in the average laborer of struggling millennial.

[HopeAgain]

113. I feel the same way if Bloomberg were to become our nominee

He has made some very arguably racist comments and has a questionable civil rights record during his time as mayor of New York City. He locked up thousands of protesters during the 2004 Republican National Convention (where he gave a speech warmly endorsing George W. Bush, and thanked him for starting the war in Iraq), and a judge held the city in contempt for violating due process law. He created what amounted to a police state for New York Muslims, subjecting the entire community to dragnet surveillance and harassment, and filling mosques with spies and agent provocateurs. The city had to pay millions in settlements for violating Muslims' civil rights.

I'm not sure who and what he stands for other than being anti-Sanders and anti-Trump.

[peoli]

120. How can you say anything about climate change?

Bernie is far ahead of any democratic candidate ever. Obviously you are not really paying attention

[HopeAgain]

122. Maybe he means climate change

in the way of not threatening the fossil fuel industry...

[xocet]

123. Can you substantiate your claim of a 33% increase in FICA taxes? You certainly don't provide links.

It is great to have conjectures as opinions, but to claim said opinions as facts without substantiation would be disingenuous at best.

Please respond with specific excerpts and the specific links that will substantiate your claim, for it is your burden of proof. Beyond that, please inform the rest of "us" who exactly "us" would be. If your claim is that there would be a tax increase of some form, please specify what groups would be paying that increase and substantiate that as well.

As one knows, there is a long way from currently stated goals to legislation. It would seem doubtful that any provided discussion at this point would actually faithfully represent the outcome of eventual legislation anyway. Goals would seem to be the only addressable topics at this point.

With that being considered, are you against the goals that Sanders has outlined? If so, please specify what you are against.

If you cannot do any of the above or are unwilling to do so, does that mean that you know what you are talking about and are being forthright?

[wallyworld2]

124. well disaster or not

If Bernie Sanders wins the Democratic primary

I am voting for him

[redstatebluegirl]

126. I want to see a woman in the White House so bad it hurts but.

This year I am voting based on getting rid of Trump. I may not live long enough to see a woman, i sure hope so, but I have to see this orange turd removed from the white house and see it fumigated with a Democrat, any Democrat.

[Karma13612]

233. What is wrong with Liz? Amy?

Just curious.

I think they are Presidential material.
And would run circles around tRump

[redstatebluegirl]

234. Elizabeth is to far to the left for the country I think, just like Sanders although I like her a lot

Amy is my second choice at this moment. After working so hard for Hillary and seeing how many people I thought would support her, Democrats, who didn't and then admitted it was because, in their opinion, she could not win, I see what women are up against. This year is more important than any election in my life and I'm almost 65.

[Karma13612]

239. Liz is only "too far left"

Based on the Overton window.

The things she is proposing are popular with the majority of Americans.

Republicans have been pulling the country to the right for years. Look where it has gotten us.

[duforsure]

127. Under no circumstances would I not vote

For anyone , and plan on voting for whoever the Democrat candidate turns out to be. Trump is to dangerous to us all to become petty over who Democrats choose, including Bernie Sanders. That's not acceptable letting a Putin puppet destroy our country for Putin. I'd rather vote the orange idiot out no matter who gets the nomination, and can't imagine how destructive trump could get with more votes to win. We just think he's bad now. He's capable of much worse, and that's pretty bad.

[Raster]

129. This year I am voting FOR ONE REASON ONLY.... To get RID of #tRump...

...If our party's nominee is a Ham Sandwich, then I will vote for the Ham Sandwich. Period. Every Democrat, every conscientious American should be voting the same. No purity tests. No animosity hangovers from 2016. None. No. Non.

[LudwigPastorius]

130. I don't think you'd have to worry about his promised policies if he were elected.

Congress still writes the law, and barring the election of a couple of hundred Democratic Socialist Congressmen, laws that follow through on Bernie's proposals won't happen.

It's hard to say whether his election would even move policy in this country to the left at all. It seems just as likely that there'd be an attempt by the GOP to drag things further to the right, just because of their fear of "SOSHULIST!".

All of this is not to say that we should throw up our hands and give up, but given how far down the primrose path to hell Republicans have moved us over the past 40 years, there's nothing wrong with concentrating on winning the small battles we can. (see Obama's 8 years)

[AverageJoe]

131. Sanders polls as the best candidate against trump in 2020

Just as he did in 2016. I see no reason to believe those polls are wrong.

That said, I will enthusiastically support our candidate, no matter who it is.

Here’s the thing to remember: If WE All get out there and vote for the nominee, we will win, no matter if it’s Sanders or Biden or anyone in between.

[krakfiend]

132. why?

just for the record, he is not my first choice, or second. i do feel that you are hating on him for very vague reasons. you think his speech is vague, that he will raise social security taxes by 33%. i have heard he will increase the taxes on the 1%. he wants to model the u.s. like the nordic countries. i don't know how he will pay for m4a. i do believe he has touched on climate change. another senator has pointed out that bernie sometimes does not add his name to a bill if he thinks others will not vote for it if his name is on it. saying he wants something is different from actually getting it. bernie will have to appease both houses and both political parties to get want he wants. he is optimistic, he really cares for civic rights and the environment. he might not be the greatest, but he is far from a disaster. if he is the nominee, i will gladly vote for him.

[R B Garr]

144. K&R!

[Gothmog]

148. trump really wants to run against a weak and unelectable candidate like sanders

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

158. Bloomberg Campaign Hints at Damaging Sanders Info

This intrigues me. I have seen a ton of the oppo on sanders but would love to see more https://politicalwire.com/2020/02/18/bloomberg-campaign-hints-at-damaging-sanders-info/

Bloomberg campaign manager Kevin Sheekey tweets: “The opposition research on Bernie Sanders could fill Donald Trump’s empty Foxconn facility in Wisconsin.”

“It is very damaging, perhaps even disqualifying.”

[Gothmog]

159. Trump is salivating at the prospect of running against Sanders

Link to tweet

[Vivienne235729]

161. +10000 EXACTLY!!

[Progressive dog]

166. Taxes go up and still no

money for infrastructure under Bernie's plans. He imagines that somehow making health care free will decrease the real cost, as if doctors, nurses, hospital staff, drug researchers, laboratory workers, etc. will gladly work more hours and take a cut in pay, because that is what his plan demands.

[Cha]

168. So much Agree! TY Peacetrain!

[Beringia]

174. 83 recs for a stupid post

Unbelievable.

He is the best person to address climate change according to The Center for Biological Diversity along with Tom Steyer and Elizabeth Warren.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie both have the same records of passing no serious bills in congress, but you never see people post this about Warren.

[dware]

175. Nope, there's 84 now.

[evertonfc]

176. Hes not going to win the GE

but he will.sink our Senate chances and cost us House seats too. He isn't a Democrat. We deserve better

[J_William_Ryan]

177. "Bernie Sanders would be a disaster if he becomes our nominee"

Sanders would make an excellent president – and I would gladly vote for him for president and enthusiastically campaign for him.

But his candidacy would indeed be a disaster.

[TheSocialDem]

180. Buckle up then

[dware]

182. Yep.

Buckle up and be prepared for another 4 years of the Mango Menace if Bernie becomes our nominee.

[TheSocialDem]

183. i think you'll be pleasantly surprised

[dware]

184. There won't be any pleasantness to a Bernie nominee.

He will get hammered in the GE and he'll take down ballot Democrats with him, we'll almost certainly lose the House and no chance to retake the Senate.

And even if by some miracle he did win the Presidency, what could he get enacted into law?
You think we'll win back the Senate?
The chances of that are slim to none,...……..and slim has already left the train station.


Without a Democratic Senate, nothing will get passed, thereby negating anything he promised.

[wundermaus]

192. 1968

I haven't had as much hope for our country since 1968.

Bernie's presidency could be a pivotal event in our nations history.
Not since FDR have we had such a progressive and citizen oriented candidate.
There is a change possible with Bernie that has been completely absent in the last 40+ years.

The republicans have removed their masks and there is no mistaking them for what they are - traitors.
We have a war on our hands.

The only way we are going to win this is to mobilize the population.
Money is not going to win this, people will win this.
Bernie is a populist. Bernie is responding to the needs of the working people, not the wealthy.
Please stop trying to divide the Democratic party, and get your heads screwed on straight.
Bernie is running as a democrat. Start treating him like a democrat. Cut the socialist boogieman crap.
Bernie is going to make a wonderful President, better than we can imagine.
So embrace him up as he embraces you as a brother and together we may yet save our nation.

[MrsCoffee]

199. Oh the hypocrisy of a Bernie supporter tossing out accusations of "trying to divide the party".

Bernie is the divider. He has spent the last several years trashing and dividing the Democratic Party. It is his whole strategy to get to the White House.

Don’t piss on my leg and then tell me it’s just raining.

[wundermaus]

240. That's hilarious

Thanks for the big laugh, MrsCoffee! You can not possibly be serious to make such a ridiculous comment.
Bernie is no more a divider of the Democratic Party than the man in the moon.
Turn that mirror around!
Look at the support of Bernie Sanders by any metric you prefer - he is pulling in voters from all areas of our society.
He is the very essence of a uniter, not a divider! His policies are solutions to problems we face as a nation, not excuses.
I would really like to know where you get your information to make such a patently false statement about Bernie.
Here is just a sampling of some of my information sources of information:
https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show
https://reddit.com/r/politics/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPWXiRWZ29zrxPFIQT7eHSA (The Hill Rising)
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1yBKRuGpC1tSM73A0ZjYjQ (The Young Turks)
https://crooksandliars.com
https://thehill.com
https://www.rawstory.com
https://www.democracynow.org

And Don't Bother with ad hominem replies, this aint' my first rodeo.
(If you are not civil - you and your ilk will be blocked)

[MrsCoffee]

241. "you and your ilk will be blocked"

Ouch.

[wundermaus]

242. Let me explain....

Just being up front with you based on my previous experiences in this political discussion forum.
Given my cumulative experience in several political discussion forums for the last 20 years (has it really been 20 years since the 2000 Bush sElection coup!? My hat tips to Common Ground Common Sense) and the fact that I am a senior citizen now, my patience has run out for fiction based arguments and comments. So if you or anyone else want to legitimately bring up Bernie's political defects, then bring 'em on. But like you (and Judge Judy) said - Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.
All the candidates have chinks in their armor and i think it is constructive to call them out on those deficiencies, but please, Do Not parrot what the current popular barking points are and expect to impress me or anyone else.
As I write this to you (16:00 Feb.22) Bernie is currently at 55% https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/484103-2020-nevada-caucus-results . Joe Biden is second place at 17%. Can we at least agree on the math?

[DIVINEprividence]

200. What happens when Trump drops THIS on Bernie

and plasters this all over the airwaves and pounds Sanders like a drum. I personally don’t hold this against Bernie and I accept his explanation. The GOP and a large part of the electorate won’t. This in and of itself makes Bernie unelectable even before getting into the socialist thing.

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/05/29/410606045/the-bernie-sanders-rape-fantasy-essay-explained

[RandySF]

201. We would lose these seats at minimum

MI-SEN: Peters
CA-10: Harder
CA-21: Cox
CA-22: Vacant
CA-39: Cisneros
CA-45: Porter
CA-48: Rouda
FL-07: Murphy
GA-06: McBath
IL-06: Casten
IL-14: Underwood
IA-02: Open
IA-03: Axne
KS-03: Davids
ME-02: Golden
MI-08: Slotkin
MI-11: Stevens
MN-03: Phillips
MN-07: Peterson
NV-04: Horsford
NJ-03: Kim
NJ-05: Gotthemier
NJ-11: Sherill
NM-02: Torres-Small
NY-01: Rose
NY-11: Delgado
NY-22: Brindisi
OK-01: Horn
PA-06: Houlahan
PA-17: Lamb
SC-01: Cunningham
TX-07: Fletcher
TX-32: Alred
UT-04: McAdams
VA-02: Luria
VA-07: Spanberger

[Stuart G]

202. There is something about Bernie's personality that is "flawed." Hard to describe,

but true. Bernie would make a terrible "nominee." Somehow and someway he would create a disaster for our party. Of course, some people don't see it and deny it, but it is there. If he were our nominee, I think the issue would be "Bernie" and not the ideas that he stands for like "universal health care."
..Trump and the money behind Trump will do that and as Bernie responds the disaster will occur. Yes, I would vote for Bernie, but the powers behind Trump will create that "disaster" and if Bernie responds in a "flawed" way, we will lose all chances to advance our agenda. We will lose seats in the House and Senate as well as governorships and state houses.
...If Bernie is our nominee, he will have 3 & 1/2 months to show that. That 3 1/2 months is more than enough to destroy our chances to win. I don't know how he will do it, but he or someone in his campaign will. Then Bernie's response will destroy him. This scenario is truly ugly, but I believe it is true and will occur.

[MarianJack]

203. I said this in 2016 and I'll say it again.

A Bernie Sanders nomination would result in a coast to coast landslide loss that would make 1972 look like 1960. He lacks the self discipline, stamina and just plain old smarts to ever prevail in the inevitable and intensively negative campaign that will be coming from Dolt45.

He has Goldwater/McGovern/Mondale/Dukakis written all over him and this election is too important for that.

That's my two cents, and quite possibly overpriced at that.

RESIST!

[DIVINEprividence]

204. Well said

I might I add Klobuchar is a class act

[MarianJack]

207. Thanx.

I believe very strongly that there needs to be a woman on the ticket this year. Maybe if our VP nominee is Mrs. Butterworth Pence will refuse to debate her on the same stage.

RESIST!

[gembaby1]

205. He just seems to me more and more to me like a cranky old man.

Just bitches, offers pie in the sky, and no real details of how this going to get done. Now I have no problem with free healthcare. I’m Canadian for Christ sake! I’m just saying the man is no Tommy Douglas. At least he was able to prove it could be done by running his own province (Saskatchewan) successfully with it before he went to Ottawa as leader of the NDP. This Bernie guy has nothing tangible to offer. Seem to be all hat and no cattle, as they say.

[duforsure]

206. I think Bernie wouldn't be a disaster

Improving health care with MFA means reductions in our costs, like Bernie states, a lot less costs for us and employers after they see a financial benefit from it. Any candidate running in our party is better, will unite instead of divide people, and go after corruption now wide spreading under trump and the GOP. Trump and the GOP are an ongoing disaster to our Democracy. People who refuse to vote keeping trump and the GOP are the ones that could spell disaster for this country, not any Democrats running.

[Go Vols]

235. .

[Chicago1980]

208. I hate these type of posts...

They're not helpful.

As long as you vote for the nominee in November...

As long as you vote down ballot and help that nominee with a democratic house/senate.

It doesn't matter who the goddamn nominee is if they don't have a congress to back them up!

[polichick]

210. The "stuff" Bernie has is TRUTH - he reminds jaded voters what gov't...

of, by and for the people looks like.

[colsohlibgal]

211. We're Running Against A Low Life Criminal

If people prefer Trump to Sanders we’re doomed.

Now I think Bernie, Biden, and Bloomberg are too old. But I would crawl through glass to vote for any of them. We’re running against a Mob Boss, no time for hurt feelings. I do hope if any of the three win the nomination they pick a much younger running mate.

I line up with the progressive wing of the party and my thought is something is wrong when a small percentage of us have more money than the bottom 98% or something like that.

Democratic socialism is not Communism it is basically how Scandinavia runs. It is the principle behind Medicare. Once again Eisenhower operated a bit that way, the top tax rate was 91 or 92% every year he was President.....and he was a Republican.

Again if Biden or Bloomberg win the nod both are off the chart preferable to the Evil Idiot now in the White House.

My thought is we need more positive campaigning and we need to realize the real enemy is the Creep playing President now.

[gembaby1]

213. I would NEVER say vote for Trump over Bernie.

[Maribelle]

215. Tonight's debate will be critical.

In fact it seems to me to be the most important debate in the primaries ever.

I will pay close attention.

[musicman65]

220. We do not

see him taking the south,it all seems odd that he is ahead in the poles

[LakeArenal]

226. Personally, I think he's a disaster now.

[mikeysnot]

228. Duly Noted...