Lots of people seem to have friends/neighbors who won't vote Bernie.

[DanTex]

It gets posted here all the time. It might be the number one reason I’ve heard why we can’t go with Bernie. “Oh I’ll vote for him but all these people I know will absolutely not.”

Which, fine. Except that in head-to-head polls Bernie is ahead of Trump, by the same margins as the other candidates, and in some cases further ahead.

So what gives? Are the pollsters somehow missing the huge numbers Never Bernie friends and neighbors and in-laws who I keep being told are everywhere?

[oldsoftie]

1. Bloomberg & Biden beat trump by larger margins

But OK.

[Perseus]

6. Maybe, not sure where you get your facts, but OK, does Bernie also beat trump?

I believe the answer is "YES", so who cares? the question is that if Bernie wins then we must all support him, the goal is to get rid of the creature and his crooks, so beat trump by one point or ten, does it really matter?

Also, for your information, Bernie seems to be leading in that category that you brought up, he seems to be the candidate with the higher numbers against trump.

[link:https://www.npr.org/2020/02/18/806703427/npr-pbs-newshour-marist-poll-sanders-leads-bloomberg-qualifies-for-debate|

[DanTex]

7. Depends on the poll and certainly within MOE.

Definitely the difference, if any at all, isn’t nearly as big as the huge swarms of “friends and neighbors” that won’t vote Bernie that we keep hearing about.

And Bernie outpolls Pete and Amy pretty consistently. But I’ve heard zero “friends and neighbors” who won’t vote for either of them.

[oldsoftie]

10. Real Clear Politics; todays latest poll. Link:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/latest_polls/general_election/

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

20. Joe's freefallin, as that summary poll shows; indeed, all polls show Bernie glidin & Joe slidin!!

It's time to get past the denial and fear of Bernie's progressive campaign that appeals to woke working class people and accept the inevitable... say hello to our next POTUS, President Bernie Sanders!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Perseus]

15. The old trick of throwing things out there without facts, and when you ask for facts they disappear

People go "Bernie will not win", and that is it, so we are supposed to believe that statement.

I have a neighbour who is as dense and stubborn as anyone can be, and she has been a republican all her life, but she voted for Obama twice, and despises trump, and even her has told me she is voting for any Democrat who becomes the nominee, I guess I have different neighbours that those who claim theirs will not vote for Bernie.

If that is true then I only have to say, if you don't vote and trump is up for four more years, you lost your right to complain.

[avebury]

23. It is not enough to just beat Trump. If Democrats don't manage to also take

back the Senate and retain the house, Republicans in Congress will block everything a non-Trump President tries to do ( I use the phrase non-Trump President because Sanders is not a member of the Democratic Party so that phrase covers scenarios of a Democratic Party candidate and a non-Democratic candidate). We have to consider whether our eventual nominee will help or hurt down ticket races in making our selection.

I will vote for whoever is our nominee but really don't want to hold my nose when I do so. I am not convinced that Sanders will be the best candidate in the long run and there is no margin for error in our selection. There are supporters within his ranks that appear to be willing to blow up the election if they don't get their way and that smacks of the kind of attitude that we see with Trump's supporters. Not a way to win friends and influence people after we have had to deal with Trump for over 3 years. A lot of people don't like that attitude of the Trump crowd and won't be about to take if from the Bernie crowd either.

If Sanders does manage to win the nomination, his selection of a VP candidate will be critical and his only way to wind over people who are not crazy about him. I would hope that he would choose a competent VP nominee who could step right up and be prepared to act as President should Bernie die in office. If he chooses a Bernie 2.0 younger version that would give me heartburn and might not be good enough to win over the number of people he would need to win the election.

We don't have the luxury of voting for a candidate that is delusional enough to think that he or she can achieve huge swathing changes because that is not going to happen because we won't have a supermajority of both houses to push that level of change through. We have to focus on gaining the WH, control of the Senate, and retain control of the House so that we can put the brakes on all of Trump's destructive actions. We have to be methodical about triaging what can be reasonable fixed via Executive Actions, what can be pushed through Congress, and how to rid the courts of incompetent judges.

[Perseus]

2. They should tell those people to not complain if we have four more years of trump

You either want to get rid of the creature or you don't, but don't complain if you don't vote and things get worst, because they will get worst if we don't get rid of the mafia in the WH.

[Freddie]

3. Bernie is far from my first choice

But if he is our nominee, I think his choice of running mate would be a deciding factor for many, given both his age and ideology. Amy would be perfect.

[Tom Rinaldo]

4. Don't you know?

The people you are talking about are in on the secret, that Bernie has been known to call himself a "Democratic Socialist". Up until now this startling revelation has been kept deeply under wraps, with political pundits and TV commentators (outside of the most extreme right wing sources of course) forbidden to utter a work about it. But these people you speak of are aware of this ticking time bomb. They know that as soon as the conspiracy to hide this awful truth about Bernie Sanders is uncovered, that tens of millions of Americans will be absolutely horrified, and will have no choice but to run screaming into the arms of Donald Trump.

[Perseus]

18. Bernie needs to start hammering that he is a "Social Democrat" to change the label

He also needs to start labeling as "Socialists" the corporation who pay very little taxes and instead enjoy subsidies, which is socialism for the rich, he needs to hammer more on the loopholes that help the very rich not pay their dues in taxes, that is also socialism, he needs to label the republicans socialists for the rich and the corporations, that has to become a meme.

He can also accuse the media for promoting "rich and corporate socialism", and maybe they will change their tune.

I know he has done some of that, but he needs to get more aggressive in his attacks to the republican socialists.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

22. LMFAO!! Naaaiiiillled it!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[Tom Rinaldo]

31. Plus people are going to find out that Sanders isn't really a Democrat

That fact alone will force millions more to vote Republican in November.

[JudyM]

40. And the massive mystery dossier on him that supposedly exists.

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. You mean the one some DU members post from daily here? n/t

[JudyM]

44. Yes, that's the one. They think if it's repeated often enough it will become more credible.

[DownriverDem]

5. Don't forget

It's state by state. Who can win enough states to beat trump? It appears that folks will not vote for president, vote 3rd party, write in a candidate or leave it blank. I know folks who did one of these in 2016.

[Perseus]

9. Yes, a lot of voters did this in 2016, a lot of Sanders supporters who felt the Democratic party

was pushing against them, and we are doing the same thing again.

I don't know why people don't understand that this bickering is hurting us and its helping the republicans. Are we going to loose the election because of things we do against ourselves? Are we that dense?

[Turin_C3PO]

13. Bernie or Bust people

who didn’t vote for Hillary in the general have absolutely no excuse for their behavior. Everyone should vote Democratic regardless of who the nominee is, even if it’s Bloomberg, who I detest.

[Perseus]

19. Agree, but when you (I don't mean you) create enemies by bashing them they will retaliate...

Every action has a reaction (Newton's 3rd Law).

All this war against Sanders is not going to make any friends, and passions are very high in politics, so we should stop this anti-Bernie campaign, and like you said, lets vote for the winner, whether you like him/her or not, the goal is greater than a our choice of candidate, the goal is to clean the White House. Like Klobucher said, spray the Oval Office with Clorox come January 2021.

[Demsrule86]

36. Sander isn't making any friends either...he should consider that. He needs every vote he can get.

I believe folks here including me...will vote for Sanders in the General. However, I don't think he can count on moderate voters at large to do so...my Dad always said folks vote their pocket books...and many will believe a Sander's presidency could hurt the economy after the GOP hammers home that Sander is not a capitalist but a big spending socialist meme...as we saw with Kerry the stuff they say doesn't have to be true. Sanders is a risky nominee and not the nominee we need to beat Trump. it is so imperative that we get Trump out. Sanders sees the moderate vote as locked in but I think he takes too much for granted. I will as always vote blue no matter who...but I hope it will be enough.

[MrsCoffee]

16. Oh please. The BoBers do the most bickering and bullying.

If they feel pushback, maybe they should try a different approach themselves.

Vote Blue.

[Perseus]

21. Then lets make them feel welcome

It reminds me of a call I had yesterday.

I called a company because I need a part for one of my tools, the girl on the phone was very dry and stern, so I asked her "How are you today", and she said "So so, it is a day", so I told her "A friend of mine passed away a couple of days ago, we are still alive, so it is a great day."...her attitude changed almost automatically, she stayed quiet after I said what I said, but her next interaction with me was nice, and the conversation ended very well, she helped me a lot.

Sometimes we need to bring people to our side, and Sanders' supporters may still have 2016 fresh in their minds, but if we continue with this finger pointing and the bashing we are not going to gain any ground with them.

We, Democrats, should be a very happy family, we need to keep our eyes and our hearts on the most important goal, which is to get rid of the mafia in the White House.

[MrsCoffee]

25. Because they only want one thing.

Or they will take their ball home or throw it away.

You don’t negotiate with people like that. They have plenty of excellent options from Democrats and if they actually gave a fuck about issues, they wouldn’t think twice about voting for any them over Trump or staying home.

I’m tired of the bullies. Just tired of it.

[Demsrule86]

35. I am tired of what I perceive as extortion. I don't want Sanders as a candidate...sure I will vote

for him in a general. But I don't think he wins.

[Demsrule86]

38. For years we had statistics thrown in our face that Sanders voters did in fact vote for the nominee.

now we hear the truth I guess. The problem is it's blackmail. 'Nice election you have there...be a shame if ...' It is infuriating and while disciplined party faithful types (like me) will vote for Sanders, I think there are a significant number of voters we need who won't. We could lose the house as well.

[oldsoftie]

14. I dont know why people dont get that. I know some too

I've said elsewhere, i know some trump voters who actually thought that he'd be presidential once he took office. They dont like him. They would consider a biden or bloomberg, because they see them as "not being crazy leftists". If its someone else, they likely vote for trump again. Or skip the presidential choice. Which is still a small victory, because trump is going to need EVERY vote he got last time; and i just think thats going to be tough to do.

[Perseus]

24. Then help them understand that none of our candidates are "crazy leftists" because none are

But if you allow them to say it and you don't debate it then you are not bringing them to our side.

I mean, there so much you can explain about the danger that it is to have four more years of trump and his gang, find out if their lives are better today than when Obama was president. It is so easy to list all the bad this administration has done,and all that it is trying to do that will affect us all negatively, and the fact that his mental health continues to deteriorate and the possibility of a nuclear war increases every day. What will happen to this country if trump continues to give Russia our government secrets? Don't they know trump and his gang are weakening the country?

There is so much you can say, why are you staying quiet? If they are one step away from trump, finish the job. THERE ARE NO CRAZY LEFTISTS IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

Not sure if you expect to change minds by saying "they will vote for a Biden/Bloomberg", it won't work, it never does, you are better off explaining to those republican that it is better to vote for any of the Democrats, they will not destroy the country or the planet, but trump will.

[Demsrule86]

34. None of the candidates except Sanders will be viewed as a socialist...they try it with every

candidate, the problem is that Sanders will successfully be painted as a big spending socialist who wants to take away your health care. He has a history and his policy proposal will be offered up as 'proof'. He has my vote but I see no way to save his candidacy in a general. He is on record as opposing capitalism as well...he is a terrible nominee for a general.

[oldsoftie]

39. Oh, I've had a few discussions with the reasonable ones. One even asked "convince me".

Thats how I at least got them to the point of THINKING about Biden or Bloomberg. None voted for Obama, but one of them actually said "I might even vote for him now if he ran against trump. At least I'd know what I would get".
But posting their views of why some candidates are seen as being 'leftist" will probably get me another stupid alert from the pearl clutching crowd.
I swear there are some here that spend their day alerting on posts.

[brooklynite]

8. OTOH, why is the Benie margin so small?

So what gives? Are the pollsters somehow missing the huge numbers of non-voters that the Sanders campaign tells us is just waiting for a "real progressive" to run and will show up in droves?

[DanTex]

12. Turnout doesn't register in polls, at least not very reliably.

That’s always one of the question marks going into any election is who is actually going to show up. And having a candidate that inspires people rather than just “not Trump” is one of the things that drives turnout.

We were ahead in 2016 polling, but not enough people turned out.

[wyldwolf]

11. Just have to say the absolute all-time champions of made-up anecdotes about a candidate are...

... brogressives from 2016.

They were, apparently, converting people to Bernie across neighborhood fences, starbucks lines, and supermarket produce sections.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

17. Yes Dan, it's well known that people who have friends & neighbors answer their phones

to respond to poll takers at a rate three times higher than their friends and neighbors. That's just a fact!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!

[greymattermom]

26. All 3 of my adult children are for Bernie.

And the one who lives near me also seems to dislike everyone else. Who will convince them to vote at all if Bernie isn't the candidate? In our case, it might be Teresa Tomlinson, or whoever is running for Senate in their state. And they might vote to reelect Lucy McBath, who has endorsed Bloomberg. Complicated, isn't it?

[Perseus]

27. You are the one to convince them, who else could do it better?

Just put together the alternative of not supporting the Democrat and allowing trump to win a second term.

I don't know, but I believe it is a very easy thing to convince people who already dislike trump on why it is important to support blue, no matter who, and if they are your kids the probabilities for success are on your side.

[Demsrule86]

32. Bernie will cost us more votes than he wins for us...and we will lose the general. Trump gets four

more years...and we are likely to lose the house. He would be a disaster for our party as the nominee...not sure we would ever recover. I will vote blue no matter who...but I can look at the 2018 wins of the House, the Virginia governor's primary and subsequent election, multiple special elections...our dire situation in the Senate and recognize we are a center left country at best (maybe center right since Trump) and running to the left with a nominee who will be branded as a socialist effectively is an extremely bad idea. Some have allowed wishful thinking to overcome common sense as the truth is writ large in our recent elections.

[djg21]

28. We here om DU are all supposed the commit

To the DU groupthink and vote for the eventual nominee no matter who it is. So the chance of someone here admitting that they’d stay home rather than vote for Bernie is slim. But the majority of the party doesn’t participate in DU, and when people say they have “friends” who either will not voter for Bernie, or will only do so holding their noses if there is no other option, you should read between the lines.

If Bernie is the nominee, we get 4 more years of Trump, no Senate, and losses in the house.

[oldsoftie]

42. That assumption isnt fair. Many of us DO have real friends who think differently.

I've posted about it many times. And not just "i wont vote for Bernie" Dems. Many people here cut themselves off from anyone who voted for trump; family friends, whatever. I'm not one of those & i think its sad. I HAVE cut loose some who have just become total assholes, but where I live if i didnt associate with ANY trumpers I'd be out of business.

[gollygee]

29. I don't think it'll hold up when the choice is actually between Bernie and trump in a GE

I think Bernie will be painted as a socialist who wants to destroy the American way of life and a surprisingly large number of people will not only be swayed by that, but will be incredibly energized to vote for trump. I saw things I didn't know existed here in Michigan in 2016. I was naive. I am no longer naive. People are more conservative as a whole than I recognized, and they are very easily freaked out by words like "socialist." I think that is true in all the swing states.

[oldsoftie]

43. I think you're spot-on. And therefore you'll be blasted for it!

[beastie boy]

30. You forgot to add "in the Primaries" to your header.

But regardless, can you be more specific in defining "lots of people"? Is it like Trump saying a lot of people think he is a stable genius, or do you have some statistics in mind?

[LanternWaste]

33. Because you're confusing anecdotal evidence with polling data.

The two are wholly separate concepts with little to no objective overlap. I'd think that both obvious and basic... but maybe it is indeed, a real struggle for far too many people.

That's what gives...

Simply avoid the pretension that what you allege you're "being told" holds any more weight or validity than that which you tell us.

Easy, peasy, George and Wheezie.

[DanTex]

37. That's my point. Despite all the anecdotal data from anti-Bernie people, the actual polling data

shows that Bernie doing at least as well as any other candidate against Trump.

[highplainsdem]

45. Biden's polling well against Trump despite a year of attacks from the GOP and the left wing of the

Democratic Party.

Bloomberg's polling well against Trump despite all the attacks from the GOP and the left wing of the Democratic Party since he first got into the race a couple of months ago.

Sanders isn't doing any better against Trump than they are even though the GOP is holding their fire, hoping he'll be the Democratic nominee.