Bernie Sanders lavishes praise on Communist Russia / Jonathan Alter comment

[highplainsdem]

This tweet was posted by a Pennsylvania Demoocrat who's run for office there:

Link to tweet

Jonathan Alter tweet responding to this:

Link to tweet

Bernie went to the Soviet Union in 1988. I went in 1987 & 1989. He seems to have been completely conned about a country of depressed, repressed people with little food on store shelves, no freedom of travel and no free expression.This raises SERIOUS questions about his judgment.

[dalton99a]

1. Meh. He had a good time

[DanTex]

2. Jonathan Alter giving up his facade of journalistic integrity to bash Bernie.

[George II]

5. Unless he says anything that isn't true he hasn't given up his journalistic integrity.

[DanTex]

10. He's stating an anti-Bernie opinion based on a selectively edited video.

If he had integrity, he'd look at the entirety of what Bernie had to say, not just what was clipped by a supporter of Joe Biden.

But instead he's tossing his integrity out the window in order to attack Bernie.

[Dem4Life1102]

41. Can you post the full video

so we can all see how is was selectively edited?

[DanTex]

50. Why don't you ask the person who posted it lol...

[Dem4Life1102]

56. No I'm asking you

since you made the claim that is was selectively edited. Can you post the full video and prove your claim that it was selectively edited or not?

[DanTex]

59. LOL. Actually the burden is on the Biden supporter who did the misleading edit.

Sorry. If you want, you can google Bernie's full comments on the Soviet Union.

[Dem4Life1102]

60. No the burden is on the person who made the accusation

that it was selectively edited which is you. So either prove your accusation or admit that you can't.

[calguy]

80. Like most bernie folks,

He's not going to go there. Why? Because he can't.

[KSNY]

105. Perfect illustration of how progressive voices are silenced here.

You, sir, are acting like a bully.

[Callado119]

192. Calling someone on a lie isn't being a bully...

..trump supporters aren’t the only ones that like to play the victim apparently..

[KSNY]

199. I watched the full video the OP is deceptive

[brush]

205. Please. There are many videos of Sanders extolling the virtures of communism/socialism.

They're not hard to find at all. Use Google, youtube—the repugs sure have and will run them 24/7 if Sanders gets the nomination, and trump will get four more years.

[KSNY]

207. Democratic socialism is not communism, but keep quoting Trump...

[brush]

209. I wrote communism/socialism. You do know Sanders has been calling himself a socialist for decades...

Last edited Mon Feb 17, 2020, 11:41 PM - Edit history (2)

right?

He regularly appeared on "The Thom Hartman" radio show for years and proudly called himself a "socialist" without the word "democratic" in front of it.

In more recent years he's added the word "democratic" in front of it to soften the negativity of it as he became interested in using the Democratic Party to run for president. But video and ample other evidence is out there of him touting socialism. He should've said years ago he was a "social democrat" in the Nordic model if that is really what he meant but he's stuck with the baggage-laden, self-appellation of "democratic socialist" when the social democracies of Europe are actually capitalist countries, not democratic socialist countries.

Labeling himself a democratic socialist was a mistake not just because there actually is a Democratic Socialist Party in the US which actively advocates actual socialism, historically there's never been a sustained, successful deployment of socialism in any country. And as I said, the social democracies of Europe are actually highly regulated and highly taxed capitalist countries with strong, robust safety nets provided for by the high taxes—single payer healthcare, free college, etc..

[KSNY]

214. When you place the term "communism" first, your comment sounds like Trump

I am fine with European style health-care, education, taxation, etc. Sanders isn't going to eliminate capitalism.

[brush]

215. OK, commuism is a form of socialism though.

[subterranean]

104. You didn't ask me, but I've seen the full video.

Yes, he said he was impressed by certain things he observed on his trip, specifically the public transportation system and the country's support for the arts and culture. He also mentioned that the people they spoke to acknowledged that their system had problems, and he praised the efforts they were making back then to become a more "open and democratic society." At no point did he claim or imply that their way of life was superior to ours.

Here's the full video if you'd like to see for yourself:

[pangaia]

111. THANK YOU !!

[burrowowl]

219. Thanks

[TheRickles]

114. Thank you for posting the full video!

It's very disappointing to see how 30 year-old quotes are being misrepresented to smear Bernie. You'd think from the OP that Sanders wants to re-open the gulags.

[subterranean]

145. You're welcome. It's not the first time it's been brought up here.

I remember it being discussed sometime last year, and I watched the video then.

[PufPuf23]

136. Alter and Biden look bad given the full video and acknowledging the context and that it was 1988

and in the glasnost period where the USSR was failing and the starting of a new and hopeful era between Russia and the USA.

The sliming of Sanders in this forum is way out of hand and counterproductive to removing Trump from office and for a Democratic party that is coherent. My recommendation is that folks would post about positive aspects of the candidates. I say this as a life long Democrat that does not favor Sanders, Biden, nor Bloomberg as the 2020 Democratic candidate for POTUS.

From wiki:

Gorbachev

In 1986, aware of the term's historical and more recent resonance, Mikhail Gorbachev and his advisers adopted "glasnost" as a political slogan, together with the obscure "perestroika".

Glasnost was taken to mean increased openness and transparency in government institutions and activities in the Soviet Union (USSR).[4] Glasnost apparently reflected a commitment to getting Soviet citizens to discuss publicly the problems of their system and seek solutions.[5] Gorbachev encouraged popular scrutiny and criticism of leaders, as well as a certain level of exposure by the mass media.[6] Some critics, especially among legal reformers and dissidents, regarded the Soviet authorities' new slogans as vague and limited alternatives to more basic liberties.

Alexei Simonov, president of the Glasnost Defense Foundation, would define the term as follows: "Glasnost is a tortoise crawling towards Freedom of Speech".[7]

Various meanings

Between 1986 and 1991, during an era of reforms in the USSR, glasnost was frequently linked with other generalized concepts such as perestroika (literally: restructuring or regrouping) and demokratizatsiya (democratization). Gorbachev often appealed to glasnost when promoting policies aimed at reducing corruption at the top of the Communist Party and the Soviet government, and moderating the abuse of administrative power in the Central Committee.

The ambiguity of "glasnost" defines the distinctive five-year period (1986–1991) at the end of the USSR's existence. There was decreasing pre-publication and pre-broadcast censorship and greater freedom of information.

The "Era of Glasnost" saw greater contact between Soviet citizens and the Western world, particularly the United States: restrictions on travel were loosened for many, allowing increased business and cultural interchange.[8]

International relations

Gorbachev's interpretation of "glasnost" can best be summarized, translated, and explained in English as "openness". While associated with freedom of speech, the main goal of this policy was to make the country's management transparent, and circumvent the narrow circle of bureaucrats who previously exercised complete control of the economy.

During Glasnost, Soviet history under Stalin was re-examined; censored literature in the libraries was made more widely available;[9][10] and there was a greater freedom of speech for citizens and openness in the media.

Propaganda about the supposedly higher quality of consumer goods and quality of life in the United States and Western Europe began to be transmitted to the Soviet population,[11] along with western popular culture.[12]

[Sympthsical]

173. You saved me a lot of typing. Thank you.

When I saw the dates, I knew the context immediately. Saying encouraging things to a society that was, at the time, working to move beyond communism is bad?

There is some serious historical ignorance at play here. And it’s not as if this was all that long ago.

[Dem4Life1102]

163. Thanks

[dware]

216. See, this is the way it works,

you made the accusation, it's incumbent upon you to prove it.
So, prove it.

[wallyworld2]

146. If he can't

I can, here is the entire news conference

[Dem4Life1102]

164. Thanks

[denem]

53. 'selectively edited'?

I think the word is 'doctored' ! That was the term used a video was short on context according to Biden supporters

[redstateblues]

85. Yeah cause some of Bernie's surrogates never do that. David Sirota

[pangaia]

110. Lindy Li's twitter statement , if taking what is in that video excerpt, is a shit-filled lie.

[robbedvoter]

12. bash him with his own words? I disagree with Alter about the "conned" part

Burnie knew exactly what was going on. He said once that the bread lines are the great equalizer. It's what he wants for us.

[DanTex]

20. "conned" was not Bernie's word. Neither was anything else Alter said.

Bernie was talking about some cultural programs for kids. For Alter to draw the conclusion that Bernie was totally supportive of Soviet society based on a selectively edited video posted by a supporter of Biden is laughable.

It's not something anyone with journalistic integrity would do. Even by the standards of random twitter trolls, it's embarrassingly dishonest.

[cwydro]

102. I imagine he doesn't see himself in a bread line.

Ever.

[highplainsdem]

17. Considering how ridiculous Sanders' enthusing about the joys of Communist Russia looks, I'd

say Alter was very restrained in his critique.

I wish to God that Sanders' enthusiasm could be dismissed as youthful foolishness and naivete.

Unfortunately, since he was in his mid-40s then, it can't be.

Expect to see that video A LOT if he becomes our nominee.

[DanTex]

23. Bernie was talking about some cultural program, not all of Soviet society.

It was a selectively edited video posted by a supporter of a rival campaign. Unless Alter is a total moron, he knows this.

But instead, Alter pretends that Bernie talking well about a cultural program means that he's somehow supportive of all of Soviet society and economy and doesn't see any problems. His journalistic integrity is out the window.

[highplainsdem]

27. No, Sanders' credibility is out the window.

[Me.]

34. REallY?

I wonder how many people consider Moscow to be the ideal honeymoon destination, then or now?

[Zolorp]

35. Spin all you want, this is a permanent stain of Communism on the record of Sanders

He cannot run away from his own words and deeds.

And there is a lot more like this out there from the late seventies all the way up to the fall of the wall.

[brewens]

152. He was saying he was impressed with what he saw in Moscow. He may very well have realized

he was seeing the best of the best they had to show him. Of course they could always do great things in some places and parts of their system if they threw enough money at it. I don't see him praising their communist system as some make believe.

[calguy]

71. There are probably many more much worse

[pangaia]

113. Sanders was absolutely NOT "enthusing about the joys of Communist Russia"

Jesus.. I gotta get off here for now.. back To Mahler..

[greatauntoftriplets]

148. I spent some time in East Germany a few years before 1988.

The only thing that I praised about it was leaving. Yes, this was before Glasnost, but at the time it likely was the same thing that the Russians were living through.

And I was in my 20s at the time, so there's no way I'd use the "youthful enthusiasm" excuse either. Of course, I wasn't an elected official, so there were no efforts to impress me. The place was just sad, especially after seeing (from the West) the no-man's land that any would-be escapees had to cross if they tried to leave above-ground.

It was a truly harrowing experience.

[Jedi Guy]

154. Add in the fact that you were almost certainly being observed by the Stasi.

As I understand it, pretty much any foreigner that set foot in the GDR was monitored by the Stasi to see where they went, what they did, who they spoke to, etc. And the Stasi did not screw around.

[greatauntoftriplets]

160. I'm sure that I was.

I was there with a West German family friend who was living in Berlin, though not from there. Because of that, we (to be exact, she) could not go through Checkpoint Charlie. Instead we went through Friedrichstrasse, which had different areas for foreigners and West Germans.

The friend taught at the Berlin Free University at the time, so I'm sure that we were followed. Also, there were some very creepy moments for me crossing the train from West to East Germany on the train. I was wearing glasses to read, and the man checking passports to enter the East barked something to me in German that I couldn't understand. A woman across from me reached over and grabbed the glasses off my face, then apologized later for the action. I don't know how close I was to being hauled off the train, but the woman was very relieved afterwards.

Glasnost or not, I'm sure that the Russians were putting on the ritz for important foreign visitors.

[calguy]

33. Looks like Bernie was bashing himself

You KNOW the GOPricks have much more than this in their Bernie folder. They would like nothing better than to focus attention on Bernie's communist past and not even have to mention the many crimes of trymp. It's all gonna be about Bernie's past.

[DanTex]

38. LOL. No, Bernie was talking about some cultural program in Russia.

Yes, the GOP will try to manufacture dirt to smear all of our candidates. That's why it's not helpful when journalists like Jonathan Alter flush their integrity down the toilet to help the GOP out. If he was saying some bullshit about Hunter Biden or some bullshit about Elizabeth Warren's ancestry, I imagine you'd agree.

[Zolorp]

40. You cannot spin this away.

HE praised the Soviet Union during the Cold War.

That baggage will destroy not only him, but the entire Democratic Party should we be foolish enough to nominate him.

[DanTex]

48. The only person spinning is Jonathan Alter.

This is every bit as much nonsense as the Hunter Biden crap or the crap about Elizabeth Warren's ancestry or any other totally misleading right-wing smear. Yeah, the GOP will try to use these kinds of things to damage our candidates. But that doesn't mean there's any substance there.

[Zolorp]

54. Alter is simply speaking truth.

You, apparently, refuse to see the truth about Sanders past affiliations with Communism.

[redstateblues]

86. The truth is ugly. Socialist Worker's Party for one

[TheRickles]

118. Glasnost

He was there as part of the citizen's diplomacy initiative that helped build support for the eventual dismantling of the Soviet Union via glasnost. To spin it as an embrace of the Soviet way of life is something I'd expect of the Republicans.

[calguy]

51. You wear the naivety dress so well

A perfect fit.

[tinrobot]

117. Doesn't matter. When you're explaining, you're losing.

This is a GOP attack ad waiting to happen.

[DanTex]

119. Right, because the GOP isn't going to attack any other candidate.

[tinrobot]

123. Of course they'll attack. But this one is much harder to defend.

Calling Warren 'Pocahantas' pales in comparison.

[DanTex]

130. Dunno, I guess it depends on the perspective.

People who don't already hate Bernie I doubt will care that he praised a cultural program 30-40 years ago.

[ehrnst]

131. Actually, he was talking about the Soviet government.

But nice attempt at sliding of those real RW smears in... very subtle.

[greatauntoftriplets]

149. Comparable to the cultural programs put on in Theresienstadt, presumably.

Solely to impress and not remotely related to real life.

[Farmer-Rick]

108. Yeah, it's funny how they dredge up these 35 year old films and post them.

On internet sites that never existed when the event happened. Twitter wasn't around when that film was recorded. Facebook wasn't around when that film was recorded. Anita Hill wasn't yet ignored and we had no sexual preditors on the Supreme Court when that was recorded.

The Soviet Union has been dead for about 30 years and yet somehow we are suppose to accept these films as current. Hell, they don't even use film anymore.

I think we should go back to everyone's life 35 years ago and post all the old films of them. Let's see what that looks like.

[redstateblues]

157. LOL.The BSers have been doing that since before Joe Biden announced

[Farmer-Rick]

198. Way to insult People you want to vote for Democrats against Trump

I'm sure we don't need any Bernie supporters to vote in the general against Trump. Insulting them with rude nick names is sure bring them out to the polls to vote.

[Cha]

212. Exactly.

[brush]

193. Not a surprise. That was when he was still calling himself a socialist as opposed to now...

where he's softeed it to democratic socialist.

[BlueIdaho]

3. This is a problem.

This is a real problem.

[Champion Jack]

11. This is bullshit, this is real bullshit

as Joe sinks his fans are getting desperate

[robbedvoter]

15. I am not a Joe fan. But socialism is scary as 💩.

and "Democratic Socialism" is an oxymoron. The two concepts are at odds. Nobody votes away their property rights.

[George II]

19. Even scarier is us nomination someone that could very well hand the election to trump.

[still_one]

44. That is the point George, the republicans have a lot of things from Sanders past that will come back

to haunt him.

In my view there is a reason they haven't thrown much of this at Sanders up to now is because they hope he is the nominee, and that is when they will pull this "October surprise". For a lot of us who know about Sanders past this isn't a surprise, but a lot of independents are not aware of it.

I find it interesting that some are taken aback by this criticism of Sanders. Isn't it better it is brought up now than later, and wouldn't it be better that he address it now, because there are concerns about it?

[DanTex]

29. Huh? Bernie is not taking away anyone's property rights.

[Zolorp]

37. Socialism is delivering the means of production into the hands of the people.

The Communist system Sanders is praising in the video accomplishes that by seizing all property and letting the state hold it for the people.

[DanTex]

39. What Bernie means by Democratic Socialism is clear, and has been for many years.

And it has nothing to do with getting rid of private property. Also, if you actually watched the video, he's not praising the communist system, he's praising some cultural program in the one city he visited. LOL.

[Zolorp]

49. And apparently is some new found revelation for Sanders.

In 80, he was an elector for the SWP, a Trotskyist Communist Party according to their own literature.

In 84, he endorsed the presidential candidate for the SWP, again, lavishing praise on a Communist.

And here he is in 88 praising the Soviet Union.

That right there is nearly a decade of documented Communist affiliation.

And his flirtations with the SWP go back to at least 77.

He cannot run away from his past affiliations and praise for Communists and Communism.

[DanTex]

67. No, he's been for the same policies like single payer, etc. for many years.

The right will accuse him of communism, of course, but really all they've got is some misleadingly edited videos where he talks about a children's cultural program. It's kind of funny actually that people think this is a "big thing".

[Zolorp]

72. They'll accuse him of it and present all of this evidence

They accuse everybody of it, but they HAVE NO EVIDENCE for anybody else.

There is a MOUNTAIN (well, a two foot thick Opposition Research Book) of evidence for Sanders' past affiliations with Communism.

[DanTex]

75. This evidence is a joke, he's talking about a kids cultural program.

But, yeah, the GOP will take any little thing out of context to try to make people look like communist sympathizers. This isn't a new thing, it's been going on for more than a half century.

[Zolorp]

76. He. Praised. COMMUNIST. Russia.

That's all anybody will see.

This is the Dean Scream of the Sanders campaign.

[DanTex]

77. LOL. He praised a children's cultural program in Russia.

People who hate Bernie already will see the word communist in all caps. But everyone else will understand that even communist countries can have good cultural programs. You know, like they can also have good ballet companies and hockey teams.

[Zolorp]

82. Try as you might, you will never spin away his Communist affiliations.

This discussion is over.

[DanTex]

84. You'll never be able to spin this into anything more than a cultural program.

Guilt by distant association doesn't work with Bernie, people know what he stands for.

[LanternWaste]

204. And yet you try so hard to get it to work for all other candidates.

"Guilt by distant association doesn't work with Bernie..."

And yet you try so hard to get it to work for all other candidates. We get it... it's the hold-others-to-a-higher-standard-than-we-hold-ourselves-to routine again. If it works, it works.

[redstateblues]

87. What he means by that word has shifted since the Socialist Worker's Party days

Bernie’s self avowed moniker is a millstone around his neck

[calguy]

45. LOLOL....By the time the GOP gets done with Bernie

Much of America will think he's coming after not only their property rights, but he's also coming after the minds of our CHILDREN! And not only that, he'll require you to burn your bible!!I

Now of non of this is true, but they will make a very presentable case. Bernie Sanders is political poison.

[DanTex]

52. Also, by the time the GOP gets done with Biden/Pete/Warren/etc.

It's not like the GOP is going to take it easy on any of our candidates.

[redstateblues]

88. Bernie is the only Socialist. They tried it with Obama but it didn't stick because

Obama is not a Socialist. Neither are the rest of the candidates

[Zolorp]

58. There MUST be an FBI file on Sanders

You just know it will somehow be magically "leaked" by Barr's FBI/DOJ.

[JudyM]

132. There "must be" one on Bloomberg too.

[Zolorp]

133. Yeah, but it's not going to show over a decade of affiliation with Communists.

[BlueIdaho]

18. Who said anything about Joe?

Your mind reading act needs work.

[still_one]

57. Are some folks that naive to believe that if Sanders is the nominee things like this won't be

brought up by the republicans in the general election?

It has been the elephant in the room for quite sometime, and it is better it be brought up now than later, and he should have a response to it.

[highplainsdem]

22. How is this bullshit?

[MarcA]

107. Agreed. That's the real important takeaway from this. n/t

[Happy Hoosier]

169. Umm... he actually said this....

... and this will be played over and over in the GE if he gets the nom. And we will get slaughtered.

[stonecutter357]

4. K&R

[blm]

6. I have a co-worker who thinks Russian interference never happened

and that it is a made-up hoax by Clinton. She believes nothing in the Mueller Report about Russia.

She is not a Trump supporter.

She is a firm Sanders supporter.

I have seen even longtime friends who are Sanders supporters mock the idea that Russia was involved with Trump’s election.

I know most Sanders supporters here believe Russia interfered, and wonder if they can shed some insight into why there is a faction that believes the hoax explanation used by Trump?

[robbedvoter]

25. People like Greenwald, Intercept, Jcobin and other Sander media outlets

have been pumping this Trumpian POV. Some of them, on 🦊. Mueller thought differently

Link to tweet

[Cha]

220. Exactly.. I was just thinking that.. thank you

for pointing out who's been spreading that Dangerous misinformation.. and why would they be doing that?

[lapucelle]

47. BS has a national press secretary who appears to believe that too!

[Cha]

221. So what is really "politically advantageous" to whom, bri..?

give it up.

Mahalo, lapucelle:candle

[mr_lebowski]

202. The ostensibly popular, Bernie-loving comedian Jimmy Dore pumps this bullshit, too (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. I was in grad school in the mid eighties.

I had a Russian studies professor who was far from a right winger. He told me about this Polish emigre who cried upon entering an American supermarket because it was so bountiful compared to the offerings in her native Poland. He also told me of Russian emigres who became disenchanted with their American sponsors and reported them to the government as that was the way to get them into trouble in the old country.

[Zolorp]

8. That is a direct slap in the face of every Cold War era veteran.

Seriously, this man cannot win the presidency with his baggage.

[evertonfc]

14. It's why I'm supporting mike

[Zolorp]

31. What I don't get are the attempts to slough it off as "Red-baiting McCarthyism"

Here is video of this guy straight up praising the Communist system!

[stonecutter357]

9. K&R

[evertonfc]

13. Bernie will lose big time

These videos and quotes are amoung hundreds that the GOP have and will unleash with 500 million in media the minute Bernie is nominated. This, in the heartland, southeast and South Florida is far, far more damaging electorally than any comment or position the other candidates hold or have made. Trump will paint Bernie and our party as socialists and it will stick with us down ballot and in future elections.

[calguy]

69. It might take a generation to recover,

If we recover at all. It's really that bad.

[highplainsdem]

106. Not sure it would take a generation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it took a few elections to

recover.

[catbyte]

16. Oh, lordy. I went to the Soviet Union in 1976 when I was in college. Yeah, the subways were

gorgeous in Moscow, the Kirov Ballet in the Mariinsky Theater, Leningrad, was spectacular, and the Young Pioneer camp in Kiev was impressive. The things that stuck with me all these years were the lines of people waiting to buy bread and toilet paper that winded around the street for blocks compared to the very well-stocked stores that average Soviet citizens were prohibited from entering because they only took "hard currency." Or the fact that we couldn't invite our Soviet friends we met in Moscow to our hotel room because the KGB agents skulking around in the lobby could recognize them by the shoes they wore and could've been arrested. We outsmarted them by smuggling our shoes to them so they could give them the slip. But we were careful because we didn't know if our rooms were bugged. Yeah, It was an awesome place. He must've missed all that, though.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. They censored rock music.

See what I posted in Post 7. In the interest of full exposure my uncle visited the USSR in the seventies and had a mild heart attack while he was there. He said he was treated well and for free.

[catbyte]

36. He was lucky. One of the people in our group fell down some stairs in Leningrad & had a compound

fracture of her leg. We had to bring her bed linens & towels we copped from our hotel and other basic personal care items. It was shocking. The doctors and nurses seemed very competent but hospital conditions were appalling.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. I assumed they treated my uncle well so he would share his story when he came home.

Their treatment of Jews was not good. They had to carry id cards that identified them as a distinct nationality. I have to say this again. My Russian studies professor was far from a right winger. We used Jerry Hough's textbook on the Soviet Union. Hough was a soft liner who argued there was pluralism within the Soviet system. My professor hated Vladmir Pozner who was a media fixture in the eighties who said in his idiomatic English everything was hunky dory for Jews . He said it was all lies.

[catbyte]

156. Pozner was one of the guys we met with on our trip. He sure was slick. Then I saw him popping up

all over TV later on. I was a political science major (what a shocker) so that was the emphasis on our trip. I went to college 15 miles west of Grand Rapids, MI and at the time Jerry Ford was still president. Our group managed to piggyback with a group of rich people who wanted to tour the USSR and see some rare Etruscan Gold exhibit that was nearly impossible to view. Since GR was Ford's home town, the other folks on the tour were friends of Ford so we got deluxe treatment while we were with them, mainly for meals and for our accommodations. None of us saw the gold, but we were fortunate to see both the Bolshoi and Kirov ballet troupes perform. I missed the Moscow Circus because I've hated circuses since I was little. I have a thing against clowns and animal abuse. Anyway, the night most others went to the circus, a couple of friends and I went out to dinner at a restaurant on the grounds of the stadium being built for the 1980 Olympics with 3 cool people we met in Moscow. The dinner lasted 6 freaking hours. Slowest service I've ever had in my life. By the time we left, the entrance we used to get in was locked so we spent the next half hour trying to find a way out. We ended finding a little door that emptied out onto the parking lot of a police station. The Russians were freaking out, but we told them that if there was any trouble to let us talk (not that it would've done any good but we were naive arrogant Americans.) We got back without incident. It's funny the things that linger in your mind aren't the grand sights. It's the little things. And I spent the Bicentennial in Moscow. Just like those traitors did last year on the 4th of July.

[catbyte]

55. No kidding about the music. And blue jeans. I befriended a young woman in Moscow. When I was

preparing to leave she brought me a gift. I gave her a pair of blue jeans that meant nothing to me but she had admired them. She burst into tears and told me that she never had anything so wonderful. She also asked me if I would be insulted if down the line she had to sell them to feed her family because they could live off of them for months. I told her of course not. I felt so bad because here this thing I didn't give a thought to owning but it meant the world to her. It's pretty profound when you're 20 years old.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. My buddy visited the USSR in the late eighties.

He was in his twenties at the time. He told me this guy wanted to buy his belt. I guess he wanted anything from the west.

[catbyte]

159. Yup, it was the ultimate. We had folks coming up to us every day asking if they could buy this or

that off of us, mainly in Moscow. It wasn't so prevalent in Leningrad or Kiev.

[greatauntoftriplets]

150. Excellent post.

[dware]

217. I was stationed at the US Embassy in Moscow in 1975,

and what you say is so true, bread lines, people afraid to speak out because of the KGB, etc.

Any time I left the Embassy, I had at least 2 KGB agents tailing me.
It was not a fun place to be.

It matters not if Bernie was or wasn't praising the Soviet system, the Trump campaign will run clip after clip of his involvement in the communist/socialist movement, especially where he's praising Castro and other Central/S. American dictators, and also where he said the Iranian hostages deserved to be taken because they were all CIA spies.

Bernie would be a disaster to the Party and the country if he's our nominee, because that would mean another 4 years of the Mango Menace, the probable loss of the House and no chance at retaking the Senate.

[MineralMan]

21. Yet another video that will be excerpted again and again

by the GOP in the general election campaign. Uff da!

How many more videos like this are there, I wonder?

[still_one]

63. There is a wealth of material for the GOP, and it is way past due time for him to address it

It will be a disaster if this is ignored and not addressed until the GE, if he gets the nomination

[MineralMan]

70. Address it how?

That's the problem, really. In addressing it, it gets disclosed. I believe that Sanders is hoping, for some inexplicable reason, that the Republicans won't use any of the huge pile of crap they have available. They will, of course, if he is the nominee.

In fact, the Trump crew hopes Sanders will be the nominee. They're probably already working on the ads they'll use on the day after the convention if Sanders emerges as the nominee.

They'll start with the "I AM a socialist" clip and move on to others from there. There's Sanders, saying what he said, right on everyone's TV set. That's why they're not using that stuff right now. They WANT Sanders to be the nominee.

I don't.

[still_one]

135. Easy, say it wasn't him, but his identical twin separated at birth

[Autumn]

24. He's not all wrong. The country has a rich history, strong traditions and influential arts.

Especially when it comes to literature, philosophy, classical music, ballet, architecture, painting, cinema and animation. I watched a couple of minutes and that's what I heard him talking about then had to answer the phone. Did he praise their form of government and Mikhail Gorbachev?

Leadership and their corrupt political system suck. But I doubt it's a good idea for visitors to say that.

[RandySF]

91. If we're spending the general election explaining this

we're losing.

[Autumn]

95. Just about any Dem knows history. Trump humpers and pukes don't matter. nt

Last edited Sun Feb 16, 2020, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)

[tinrobot]

140. Except... there's a bunch in the middle of those groups who DO matter

[ehrnst]

126. He praised the Soviet government specifically, and not Russian literature or arts..

Nice try, tho.

[KPN]

26. "Are you fucking kidding me?" Why is this even posted here?

Doesn't it violate a couple of rules at least?

[highplainsdem]

30. Unless there's a rule that no one can post video of what a candidate has said in the past, it

doesn't break any rules.

If there IS such a rule, a lot of posts here will have to be removed, posts about a lot of candidates besides Sanders.

[KPN]

190. Lol. "Unless there's a rule" about posting videos.

My gawd — the creativity is astounding. Fortunately, the past three years have conditioned me.

[highplainsdem]

32. And btw, the woman who posted the video is a Democrat who's run for office in PA, and the comment is

from a very well known and highly regarded progressive journalist.

[KPN]

191. Mmmhmmmm.

[NurseJackie]

46. Which ones did you have in mind?

[KPN]

189. Frankly, a few of them. Look em up.

[NurseJackie]

197. Everything looks fine to me.

[KPN]

200. I'm sure.

[NurseJackie]

201. So obviously there's no problem.

Not everything that upsets you personally is worthy of baseless accusations.

[Happy Hoosier]

170. Like what?

No posting embarrassing but true videos?

[KPN]

184. Oooh! Like True Crime?

[Mike 03]

42. Something to consider.

It doesn't surprise me that this footage exists. But the now famous Newsweek article by Kurt Eichenwald says this:

Then there's the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills,

https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

So he was on unemployment until his mid thirties (I don't even know how that's possible, since I thought you had to be employed in the first place to draw unemployment insurance, and because unemployment insurance wasn't unlimited in the 90s when I briefly needed it). But the Republicans will point out that not only was he criticizing our system and praising Communism, he was criticizing a system that kept him from being homeless.

(I supported Sanders during the 2016 primaries, but now realize I didn't know much about him.)

[still_one]

61. He better have adequate answers to this and other things, or if he becomes the nominee we will be in

trouble.


Just giving a stump speech as an answer to everything isn't good enough

His interview in the NY Daily News just showed how unprepared he was

https://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/transcript-bernie-sanders-meets-news-editorial-board-article-1.2588306

[highplainsdem]

68. Some more background on Sanders here, in a Politico article:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

He shared custody of his son in an informal arrangement with Mott, according to people who knew them. “She was around a lot,” Nancy Barnett, a friend who lived nearby, told me. Barnett called Mott “a pretty quiet, private person.” Sanders rented a small brick duplex at 295 1/2 Maple Street that was filled with not much furniture and not much food in the fridge but stacks of checked-out library books and scribbled-on legal pads. His son, who called his father “Bernard,” had an upstairs bedroom.

“Pretty sparse,” Gene Bergman, an old friend, said about the apartment.

-snip-

“The electricity was turned off a lot,” Barnett said. “I remember him running an extension cord down to the basement. He couldn’t pay his bills.”

He worked some as a carpenter, although “he was a shitty carpenter,” Bloch told me. “His carpentry,” Morrisseau said, “was not going to support him, and didn’t.”

[Mike 03]

74. Thank you!

[NurseJackie]

43. DISQUALIFIED! He should withdraw now.

[highplainsdem]

78. He was 46. And no, he wasn't still on unemployment. He was mayor of Burlington.

[Mike 03]

89. Thank you. I figured it out and deleted it.

Thanks again.

[Cha]

196. Thank you for the Clarification!

[Scurrilous]

65. '... little food on store shelves'

[squirecam]

180. Oh boy

Trump will love this. And run it over and over and over.

[betsuni]

187. That's a good one.

[Nanjeanne]

66. OMG - he praised He praised public transportation and community cultural events!!!!!!

And if we are talking judgment - Jonathan Alter supported Bush's Iraq policy . . . so I don't think he's got a moral box to stand on.

[Nanjeanne]

155. As a Jew I'm disgusted by what you just posted. To compare a concentration camp with a city in

Russia during the 1980s is over the top and frankly disgraceful. I don't alert posts no matter how ridiculous they are as people are entitled to write whatever crap they want - but you might want to consider taking that down.

My two cents.

[greatauntoftriplets]

162. I deleted my post above, even though it was not "crap".

After visiting East Berlin, I also went to China in the 1980s. At the time, they still required that Westerners travel with a group. I wasn't happy at the thought of being herded around, but it was the only way.

On the outskirts of Shanghai, they took us to a farming commune. Part of it was a visit to a family who lived there. The one-room home was very clean and nicely furnished and the family seemed quite happy. But I came away with the feeling that the family were props to create a positive image of the commune system. Others in my group had the same thoughts. The whole thing seemed staged, right down to the unseen pianist playing "Fur Elise" over and over as we stood outside waiting for the bus to pick us up.

[Nanjeanne]

165. Thank you. And I'm sure your experience in China was moving and interesting.

Next time, watch the full video - not this edited one. It’s available. You will hear Sanders talk Soviet dissidents and the undemocratic nature of the Soviet Union. The full video is 52 minutes long!

Remember he was there because Burlington had a sister program with a town in Russia ( that program still exists in Burlington today) for cultural exchange.

[Happy Hoosier]

172. To me, it's kind of like...

Saying Hitler made the trains tuns on time. You simply cannot say something like that and not acknowledge the incredible repression and economic failure of the Soviet system. Otherwise it sure come off as praise...

[Nanjeanne]

174. Not really at all. Try listening to the whole video. Not this. It's on YouTube. It's 50+ min.

[Happy Hoosier]

177. I will, but....

The whole video is not what will be played in ads by Trump.

This is a very bad look.

[Nanjeanne]

182. Well Trump,is a big fan of Russia so it will look pretty stupid if he plays this.

And Obama wasn’t destroyed by Rev Wright. Although many thought he would be.

[Happy Hoosier]

183. This game sn't the same as Wright...

... and MAGAts aren’t known for their consistency.

[Nanjeanne]

185. Bernie isn't going to get Magats to vote for him. And it's not a gampme to me.

[Happy Hoosier]

186. I won't change your mind...

.... but remember this, if you will. I see this as a looming disaster. If it is, then please remember this moment. If I am wrong, I will acknowledge it.

[Nanjeanne]

188. Okie dokie.

[OilemFirchen]

79. This is especially egregious...

considering Russia's treatment of their Jewish and Muslim populations at the time.

I find it absolutely disgusting.

[Aaron Pereira]

81. Lindi Lee is making a false claim about the contents of this video.

Sad smear attempt.

[jmg257]

83. Sheesh - well they did have clean transportation and nice cultural systems..other stuff not so...

'10-15 years behind in their free state health care system, major housing crisis - quality/numbers not adequate'.

[Fiendish Thingy]

90. Why doesn't Joe put this clip in an attack ad?

If The current party front runner is a dangerous-commie-sure-fire-loser, then why doesn’t Joe save us all from the radical Senator Sanders?

If this is a battle for the Soul Of America, then why won’t Biden take off the gloves?

[RandySF]

92. K&R

[OKNancy]

93. Cultural events and youth programs...

As a ballet teacher for 40 years, I can tell you that their ballet recruitment programs were run more like the military. Worse actually, more like reform schools. Kids picked out of their homes and sent away. Sure they had some great dancers. Of course the best ones left for the US. Baryshnikov, Nureyev, Natalya Makarova, Alexander Godunov and others who defected to western countries.

[tishaLA]

94. Just look at the bright side

At least this would pay better than the "Yankee will die" chants.

[totodeinhere]

96. Bloomberg has much more baggage than this. n/t

[slumcamper]

98. The Grim Reaper of the primary season is hard at work!

When the field has been fully reaped, what o' what shall be left?

Whoever, whatever, count me in for a vote AGAINST baby Donald.

[tinrobot]

120. OK. He's not my top choice, either.

We have better candidates than either of them.

[uponit7771]

142. +1

[redstateblues]

158. Whataboutism at it's finest

[blue-wave]

97. Wow!

Just wait until Trump gets hold of this!!

[highplainsdem]

100. You can be certain they've had this for years. They'll use it if Sanders becomes the nominee.

[blue-wave]

101. Yes, Indeed.

[Scurrilous]

210. Yep.

[videohead5]

99. This will make the 1988 Willie Horton ads

Look like child's play. The GOP and Trump will run these videos non-stop in ads. Bernie will be totally on the defensive. He will lose so bad. They will paint him as the second coming of Stalin. If they did not have all of these video he might have had a chance but this is way too much baggage.

[Sloumeau]

103. highplainsdem, thanks for posting this.

Making Senator Bernie Sanders the nominee would mean seeing stuff like this nonstop. What a nightmare that would be.

[pangaia]

109. Look. If one take exactly what is stated in the video excerpt,

and I do NOT know what else was discussed, the Sanders pretty much hit the nail on the head. in spite of their obvious naivete.... I have been to Russia oh 8,9,10 times ( I know, so have many people).. have many Russian friends, mostly in the arts, etc.....first visit was in 1985, in January when it was 25 below zero. I spent most of my time in Leningrad, and a slightly shorter time in Moscow and elsewhere. And yes, at that time, not much selection for buying food, at least not like the gluttony found here, restaurant food was pretty dismal, cars sucked, the seat belt on my flight from Helsinki to Leningrad did not work, there were 'KGB' guys in my hotel in Moscow--. Yes, really... I even smuggled some music out at the airport after a well-planned to the second clandestined meeting.. OH boy THAT is a story...


But, with all the issues past and present, the cultural life in Russia and in the former Soviet Union has been and is to this day second to none ! It is pretty much a part of people's lives, at whatever great or small level that is possible.

The then Leningrad Philharmonic, today the St. Petersburg Phil is one of the premier symphony orchestras in the world, as is the Mariinski Orchestra, Russian National Orchestra in Moscow, Moscow Philharmonic, Russian State Symphony...
The Mariinski Theater, formerly the Bolshoi, has a history of over 200 years !!!
And yes, the subway stations are extraordinary. :&gt )

So that headline is totally misleading in regards to the 2 minute post...

On the other hand there was of course a lot of sick shit going down... not unlike here. But Russian culture life to this day puts America to shame..

[Hulk]

112. 1987, '88 and '89 are light years away from Russia of today....

I enjoyed reading many posts, especially the one referring to a visit in 1979. Apples and oranges. Wonder what the rest of Senator Sander's comments were regarding the Soviet Union in the late 80's? We don't get that info.

Yes....China has nice bullet trains...or at least the ones that stay on the tracks. Does that mean the rest of China is ideal? Can you acknowledge some good things about a nation without having to own the entire nation's good and bad points?

This is garbage. Nothing more than distorted propaganda, and I'm NOT a huge Bernie supporter. I admire the man. I would definitely vote for him if he is our candidate, but these video clips serve no purpose other than to undermine his candidacy.

It bothers me to no end when we go back 30 years to pull up some edited bull shit about someone. How about we go back to last week? How about we look at their actions from the past year or two? How about we quit with all this garbage manipulating and digging.

Places I visited in the late 60's are NOTHING like that today. The same is true for the Soviet empire. It is gone. Putin is in charge, and has been for how many years now? Even Russia is totally different from a decade ago.

Don't fall for this shit.

[HarlanPepper]

115. Yeah that'll be easily explained to a low info, doesn't do nuance electorate in the fall.

[ehrnst]

121. His own words on video are "nothing more than distorted propaganda?"

It bothers me to no end when we go back 30 years to pull up some edited bull shit about someone. How about we go back to last week? How about we look at their actions from the past year or two? How about we quit with all this garbage manipulating and digging.

Places I visited in the late 60's are NOTHING like that today. The same is true for the Soviet empire. It is gone. Putin is in charge, and has been for how many years now? Even Russia is totally different from a decade ago.

How long ago was it that Bernie marched with MLK? Got arrested for protesting?

A whole lot longer than 30 years ago, but it's considered relevant to Sanders' cred as a civil rights activist, and he talks about it often.

But you think talking about things that he said, in the 80's, in public, as a politician, are somehow "too long ago" to be relevant, and "bothers you to no end?"

Tell it to Bernie...

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/04/25/sayu-bhojwani-intv-bernie-sanders-booed-after-name-dropping-martin-luther-king-jr-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

[Blue_true]

175. "Too long ago" for Bernie is not the same as for Liz, Joe, Amy.

Only Bernie can change with time, the others can't, and that includes Bloomberg to, the stuff he did as a young man 40+ years ago matters.

Bernie supporters aggressively reshape all the landscape so that only Bernie passes muster.

[yaesu]

116. why are false repuke talking points being posted on DU

shame that is has come to this.

[ehrnst]

122. Video of Bernie talking is "false repuke talking points?"

[TheRickles]

129. Agree 100%. n/t

[HarlanPepper]

141. Is that Bernie in the video?

[uponit7771]

143. Are you saying the video is a deepfake? tia

[Blue_true]

176. The words came from Bernie Sanders. nt

[dware]

218. If that's what you believe,

then alert on it and see what happens.

[yaesu]

124. enough with the Democrats are communists republican talking points, you are damaging the party

and helping trump

[ehrnst]

127. Video of Bernie speaking is 'damaging the party and helping Trump?"

[Quixote1818]

125. This will NOT hurt Sanders because Trump praises them all the freaking time.

Why on Earth is this getting so many recs?

[OilemFirchen]

153. He does not praise Communist Russia.

Next excuse, please.

[Quixote1818]

167. No he praises a crap load of dictators which is far worse than praising some trains

Give me a break

[KPN]

128. Yikes! Sanders actually thought the public transit systems and cultural programs

he saw while visiting Russia in the 1980s were very high quality and “beautiful”! Clutch my pearls!!!!

This is absolutely disqualifying!!!!

The right will smear him no end for speaking anything well of our hated enemy Russia!!!!

[ehrnst]

138. That's some baggage that the GOP will definitely deploy in an effort

to portray him as a socialist who would work towards a Soviet style government.

Of course they're not doing so right now, because he is their choice for the Democratic nominee.

Actually, those who are planning Trump's campaign are probably rather unhappy that this is being brought up and discussed at this point.

He is certainly VERY happy to talk about things he said and did much, much earlier than the 1980's as proof of his fitness to be POTUS.

So there's that.

[Cha]

213. Thank you!

[brooklynite]

134. Maybe he thought of them as a Democratic Communists?

I understand that it’s easy to redefine word.

[HarlanPepper]

137. Careful OP

This was silenced in another thread. Some folks want to whitewash his past by silencing people here.

[burrowowl]

139. I prefer a democratic socialist to neoliberals (I.e. laissez-faire capitalist, robber barons).

[Cha]

168. "neoliberals"? Who are you talking about?

[redstateblues]

179. It's a stupid straw man ploy. Desperation

[Cha]

195. Yeah

[burrowowl]

194. Bloomberg

and here's a def:

Neoliberalism or neo-liberalism[1] is the 20th-century resurgence of 19th-century ideas associated with laissez-faire economic liberalism and free market capitalism,[2] [3] which constituted a paradigm shift away from the post-war Keynesian consensus that had lasted from 1945 to 1980.[4][5] Neoliberalism is generally associated with policies of economic liberalization, including privatization, deregulation, globalization, free trade, austerity,[6] and reductions in government spending in order to increase the role of the private sector in the economy and society.[14] However, the defining features of neoliberalism in both thought and practice have been the subject of substantial scholarly debate.[15][16]

[RandySF]

144. kicked

[wallyworld2]

147. There is a link on the posters page to remarks she has hidden

Here are a few of the Hidden remarks

Hidden replies
Replies hidden by @lindyli
Hidden replies
Charlie J. Johnson
@Charliemagne
·
58m
Replying to
@FrankLuntz
and
@lindyli
Frank,
Lindy Li, candidate for U.S. Congress PA-01, Philly DSA Questionnaire
1)The CBO estimates that the GOP tax reform bill’s elimination of the ACA’s individual mandate will result in 13 million fewer people…
medium.com
Bhaskar Sunkara
@sunraysunray
·
1h
Replying to
@lindyli
I’m guessing you hoped people would just read your misleading caption. Right before Bernie praised how accessible culture was to Soviet workers, he discussed how much American friendliness, technology, etc. were admired by Russians

Zero damning here, this was pro-peace diplomacy
Steve Cox
@RealSteveCox
·
2h
Replying to
@lindyli
Here’s the actual, unedited press conference.

This video Ms. Li posted is a lie.

https://youtube.com/embed/3KCoR6UYs1k
Teva Ilan
@Tevallan
·
2h
Replying to
@SpittingBack

@stephlynn1982
and 2 others
Exactly! If you watch Bernie's remarks in full rather than viewing it out of context you'll see that he says the Soviet Union has had a dismal history as a country since their communist revolution and he expresses hopes that it will become a more democratic society in the future
☭ McMittens🏴
@quitfixngGAMES
·
3h
Replying to
@lindyli
Wow this is amazing video!!

I was leaning towards mayor Pete but now I’m definitely voting for Sanders; cultural education and public transit & utilities is so important. Thanks for this
Janice B. Pieterse
@jbpieterse
·
3h
Replying to
@lindyli
and
@benjaminwittes
The beginning of this video where he talks about communities' aspirations for democracy has been cut
Frank Luntz
@FrankLuntz
·
3h
Replying to
@lindyli
Can you give a timestamp for where Bernie mentions “preferring the Soviet Union to the American way of life?”
Dean Bergeron
@DeanBergeron
·
4h
Replying to
@lindyli
This Bernie video is so edited! Just watch the chops in it! Please stop spreading the BS

[Still In Wisconsin]

161. Relax, I am sure Trump would never stoop so low as to bring up something Burnie said

over 30 years ago. And even if they did, everyone would just agree with Burnie because they feel he has good ideas and everyone loves free stuff.

[betsuni]

166. Here's Mikhail Baryshnikov in 1985 movie "White Nights" not lavishing praise on Communist Russia.

He defected to the West so he could do things like this choreography by Twyla Tharp:

http//

[lees1975]

171. No credible source or context for this so stop posting this crap

A tweet from someone who heard something who heard something is not a source.

[essme]

178. Jane was (edited term) quite the looker.

I can say from first hand experiences that what we heard in the US propaganda wise was not 100% what happened in the USSR and places like Poland. It wasn't perfect but they did focus hard on summer camps, child care, and cultural/art activities. Maybe to a fault but people I knew in the 90's had fun as kids in the 70's and 80's.

All we need is a smart phone now....

[napi21]

181. I understand the editing accusation and all the rest, but I have to ask you, WHAT DO YOU THINK

DT is going to do with a video like this? PLEASE understand me, I'm not accusing Bernie of anything wrong. I'm just saying, if you thought one of our own edited this video, just imagine what the opposition could doo with it! How they would make Bernie look in a creative TV ad. I don't know much about campaigning, but I have heard in campaigns, & even legal trials, if you know somethings sounds wrong or could cause you trouble, GET IT OUT IN YOUR OWN WAY IMMEDIATELY. That way your opponent looses the shock factor and the ability to slant it their own way. I hope somebody gets that message to Bernie.

[empedocles]

203. Somewhere a BS supporter will admit something significant about BS. Maybe?

[Boulevardier]

206. Red-baiting is so last century...

[Cha]

222. This is BS' history.. we're still in the Vetting Season.

[Cha]

211. the vetting process..