Joe Biden: Is he really the "safe" choice?

[Fiendish Thingy]

https://www.salon.com/2019/04/01/joe-bidens-handsy-behavior-creates-a-problem-for-democrats-is-he-really-the-safe-choice/

Note: The author was a die hard Hillary supporter in 2016, and published many pieces critical of Bernie.

From the article:

The entire controversy over Biden's personal behavior is exposing a fault line in the Democratic coalition about how to beat Donald Trump in 2020. Some want to nominate a guy like Biden, who is perceived as potentially capable of peeling off some of Trump's 2016 voters -- and, not coincidentally, perceived as unthreatening to men who resent the rise of feminism. Others, including myself, want the nominee to be a woman, and to pull in new voters with a bold feminist vision.

<snip>

Biden's defenders are so quick to deny that this is a "#MeToo" situation that they perhaps fail to understand that Biden's feminist critics have never said it was. The larger point is that there's a whole range of sexist behaviors that fall short of sexual harassment but that are nonetheless demeaning, demoralizing and -- most of all -- profoundly inappropriate for someone who wants to lead a progressive political coalition into the future.


This isn't a debate about barring your mildly creepy but otherwise beloved uncle from the family reunion because you know he'll be a minor annoyance to the female guests. This is about whether or not someone who clearly doesn't perceive women as full equals should be at the head of a party whose voters and supporters are majority female. No one is saying Joe Biden is the devil, or that he should be barred from public life. They are suggesting that maybe he isn't the best choice as a presidential nominee, especially when so many exceptional and qualified women are in the running.

<snip>
Instead of setting boundaries, perhaps it's time to start talking about setting baselines: And the baseline for male behavior towards women in a professional setting should be to treat them as equals. Which, in pragmatic terms, means that if a guy feels the urge to hug someone tightly, sniff their hair or give them a smooch, he should ask himself first if he'd do it to a 250-pound man. If not, he shouldn't do it to a woman either


Is Biden really the *best* the Democratic Party has to offer? Nobody better has a shot at beating Trump?

[Cha]

1. "Creepy" is a rw talking point..

I don't care who the author supported.. I don't like her premises.

The writers, operatives, chatting pundits are not going to drive Joe Biden away.

This just pisses me off and I support him even more.

[Fiendish Thingy]

2. Jon Stewart and Samantha Bee covered this back in 2015

Are they RW shills as well?

[Cha]

3. Were you this eager to

post about Senator Al Franken's accusers?

I don't care if Jon Stewart and Sam Bee said it.. it's still a rw talking point.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. Franken wasn't running for president. Nt

[Cha]

9. He was in the Senate.. were you among

those who wanted him to resign?

[Demit]

18. Yes, by then his behavior was a well-known pattern.

And you don't have to be a RWer to recognize it as creepy. I don't know as I'd say it disqualifies him from becoming president—I think there are policy issues that will do that—but watching what he does with his hands, to women and girls of all ages, how he plays with their hair, is definitely creepy behavior.

[sfwriter]

27. I find ratings Malory has fled this topic.

His behavior towards women is one of several reasons I’ve never considered him.

[Merlot]

12. I find Bidens behavior borderline creepy and definatly disrespectful

It's not a "rw talking point." It's good it's being discussed now instead of during the primaries.

Biden will rise or fail on his own.

[Cha]

17. Oh, it's a rw talking point about

Joe Biden.

I'm not linking any stories.

[OilemFirchen]

4. "Biden's feminist critics have never said it was".

Bullshit.

BTW, being a Clinton supporter and Sanders critic doesn't qualify this author as dispassionate about Biden. In fact, the author reveals her agenda in the first paragraph:

Others, including myself, want the nominee to be a woman, and to pull in new voters with a bold feminist vision.

[LongtimeAZDem]

6. And they're willing to tear down a good man to do it

[OilemFirchen]

13. Ahyup.

There's also an insinuation in this editorial that all of Biden's "defenders" are Biden's "supporters". That's fallacious. Many who are "defending" Biden are ardent supporters of (most of) the female candidates in the race. One wonders if Ms. Marcotte is ignorant of that reality or merely discomfited by it.

[Cha]

10. Oh wow.. I hadn't read that. Thanks, Oilem..

There's a few of those around..

Amy Lappos..

“If Biden truly supports women and gender equality he would step aside and support one of the many talented and qualified women running,” she added. “The same goes for the other men who have thrown their hat in the ring. Women are 52 percent of the population. We are not a minority, we are the majority. It is time we are represented as such. After 45 male presidents it is time we elect a woman.”

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=47074

[BlueFlorida]

7. The most telling part of your OP is

Note: The author was a die hard Hillary supporter in 2016, and published many pieces critical of Bernie.

It reveals an attempt to give cover to the author and in turn the candidate who is being blamed for the smear tactics.

I think all ya'lls should just move on from the Biden story. It was a dud. It didn't do any damage to Biden. It strengthened him in some circles. Ya'll need to find another way to promote your candidate.

[vsrazdem]

8. Yes, being blamed, with no proof. But that was to be expected here.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. I only mentioned the author's support because of the attacks on Flores

For being a Bernie supporter.

At this time, I don't have a candidate to promote; I'm searching for the best person the Democrats have to offer, who has a chance at beating Trump. I don't think we'll know who that is until probably the fall, once the debates have started, maybe not until after the first few primaries, the field is so crowded.

But as far as being the "best" the Democratic Party has to offer, I hate to say it ain't so, but it ain't Joe.

[BlueFlorida]

14. Like I said, it revealed the motive behind the OP. nt

[Cha]

16. More telling at the link about the author..

Others, including myself, want the nominee to be a woman, and to pull in new voters with a bold feminist vision.

[FloridaBlues]

15. It's bad enough that Republicans use the creepy why are Some Dems using it?

[genxlib]

19. In the fourth paragraph

The author offers a "baseline" test. Would a male treat another male this way.

It seems to me that the answer in this case is "yes". There are tons of pictures of Biden with arms around men in physical embraces. I am not convinced that she has made her case by her own definition.

I am not actually defending Biden because I have concerns of my own. But I am largely sitting on the sideline and letting the primary process play out before I commit to a favorite. I vote in a late primary so my choices get limited arbitrarily anyway.

[Voltaire2]

20. Biden has a record of disastrous presidential campaigns.

So far this one is on track too.

[LexVegas]

21. No. nt

[treestar]

22. There's no safe choice

The right will come up with someone no matter who it is. Let's not kid ourselves.

[Gothmog]

23. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available

[rusty fender]

29. Ok. Primary over.

We can all forget what the actual Democratic voters want—on to the general election

[Gothmog]

31. Biden is one of the Democrats who trump fears

trump is worried about three possible Democratic nominees https://politicalwire.com/2019/03/24/the-democrats-trump-fears-most/

“President Trump has publicly boasted that he could beat any of his 2020 Democratic challengers. But privately, several members of the Trump campaign see a few who could pose a threat to his re-election, and are in the early stages of building out their strategy for attack,” Axios reports.

“The three candidates that seem to concern the Trump campaign most are Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Beto O’Rourke. That’s in no particular order, and you’ll get a different answer depending on who you talk to.”

[rusty fender]

32. Who cares what that fuckhead thinks?

Trumpass fears sharks, but I’m still not voting for Jaws!

You should examine what you are saying: candidate A fears clowns, so that means we need to run Bozo against him

We should, and will, run the winner of the Democratic primary against Trump.

[Gothmog]

33. Because trump knows that Biden can beat him

I want to win. Electability is my main criterion. If we nominate a weak unelectable candidate like sanders, trump will be re-elected

[rusty fender]

34. We had the strongest candidate run against Trumpass last time

Guess what? We lost.

I will vote for the Democratic nominee, period! Will you?

Our candidate will beat Trumpass if we get the vote out

[Gothmog]

35. I also will support the nominee

I am looking at electability as my main criterion.

BTW, my middle child hit me up to donate to Senator Warren. Her best friend from kindergarten is maxed out for Warren. My youngest child ended up donating to Warren before the deadline on Sunday night.

[comradebillyboy]

24. I'm not a Biden fan but I discount anything I see on Salon. They exist only

to trash Democratic candidates. Pretty soon they'll be publishing Walter Bragman and HA Goodman hit pieces on all candidates but one.

[flotsam]

25. Another Biden smear? #FOWDC

Fuck off-We don't care!

[guillaumeb]

26. Recommended.

All of the talk about Biden's "intentions" ignores the fact that his intentions have nothing to do with the perceptions of the women involved in these interactions.

[Atticus]

28. "Others, including myself, want the nominee to be a woman---" That's where I quit reading.

I have one woman in my "top three" for our presidential nominee, but if she gets my primary vote it will be because I believe she is our best bet to WIN the White House---NOT because she doesn't have a penis.

[Gothmog]

30. Biden is one of the Democrats who trump fears

trump is worried about three possible Democratic nominees https://politicalwire.com/2019/03/24/the-democrats-trump-fears-most/

“President Trump has publicly boasted that he could beat any of his 2020 Democratic challengers. But privately, several members of the Trump campaign see a few who could pose a threat to his re-election, and are in the early stages of building out their strategy for attack,” Axios reports.

“The three candidates that seem to concern the Trump campaign most are Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and Beto O’Rourke. That’s in no particular order, and you’ll get a different answer depending on who you talk to.”

[Gothmog]

36. This is a great statement by Joe Biden

Link to tweet

[Indykatie]

37. Who If Not Biden is the Safest or Best Choice?

Disclosure: I'm a Biden supporter.
There are tougher questions facing Dems about 2020 that I think some may not be comfortable asking. One I have is whether a country that would/could not elect Hillary (yes she received more votes but's she's not in the WH) is willing to elect any of the arguably less qualified women running in 2020? Warren +Harris + Klobuchar + Gillibrand combined are polling 20% or less in recent polls at this point. Yes it's early but those numbers don't point to the same level of energy and passion we saw in electing a woman POTUS in 2016. Do others share this concern?

I'd also like to point out there are pictures of Biden also hugging and touching men 250 pounds and smaller posted on the internet. Apparently the writer of the Salon article doesn't know that.

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. How do you define "safe" and "best"?

It seems most folks are defining “safe” as a sure thing to beat Trump - nobody can claim that at the present moment (name recognition polls are meaningless).

as for “best” choice, I interpret that to mean which candidate would be the best leader, making the necessary changes to recover from Trump, meet the challenges of the near future, and governing with the progressive values I’m sure we all share. Biden can’t make that claim either, compared to many other candidates (which is the vigorous debate I expect we’ll be having in the coming months).

And Biden isn’t entitled to the Nomination just because he’s an elder statesman who might be (unfairly) “Frankened”...

[Apple Fritter]

39. I think for me as safe choice is Warren. She is satisfieng but she lacks the "stuff" n/t

Everyone has different opinions on a "safe" candidate. Someone with less the controversy but still with recognition and ideas. Warren meets in that intersection for me.