Biden just called a female student a "lying dog-faced pony soldier" at a NH town hall.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2020, 04:05 PM - Edit history (2)

Link to tweet

Edited to remove an unsubstantiated claim about where this bizarre phrase comes from.

[Pisces]

1. This headline is a misinterpretation of what happened

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. It's not a headline. It's a description of what he did.

[George II]

11. Not a "description" at all. Why didn't you include his ENTIRE remarks in response to her, and....

....comment on her reaction to it? She clearly got a kick out of it, it wasn't a confrontation and he wasn't calling her a liar.

Aren't there more important things going on in this country than stuff like this?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Joe Biden: You're a lying, dog-faced pony soldier.

Biden supporter: He wasn't calling her a liar!

[George II]

32. Okay, whatever. At least he didn't tell her to shut up or yell at the parents of a crying infant...

Sheesh, this is getting out of hand. A few words plucked out of a long campaign event and THAT is all that matters or is important.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

37. Those are also objectionable behaviors.

A few words here, a few words there, and after awhile patterns become apparent.

[George II]

41. Obviously not objectionable to the people he's addressing.

[Kingofalldems]

88. Okay--Biden is the guy Trump fears most.

Now I see.

[NJCher]

151. those women winced at his remark

anyone who thinks otherwise probably thinks that women enjoyed Weinstein's attention.

[cate94]

159. He's quoting a John Wayne movie.

He’s joking. And the vast majority of the people in the room got the joke.

[krissey]

166. "You gotta be honest" He followed up his joke telling her to be honest.

So I say, we gotta be honest here.

I am with the young woman.

[Blues Heron]

177. He's used it before - more info here

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/joe-biden-calls-someone-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-for-the-second-time

[krissey]

60. Or tell her to vote for Sanders or Trump.

[trueblue2007]

145. Right on Joe.... Don't let them LIE about you !!!!

[lapucelle]

121. The edited video clip is from something called Grabien News.

It was posted by "founder and editor" Tom Elliot under his own name at both Grabien and on twitter. His "pre-edited" video clips are all for sale. He's a conservative operative.

******************************************************************************************



https://news.grabien.com/about.php

******************************************************************************************

Here's the newspaper he founded while at Bucknell.

[George II]

123. Hmmm, very interesting, thanks!! So this truncated video is from a RW source. Good to know.

[lapucelle]

128. Not only is the clip from a RW source, it was deliberately taken out of context

and then conveniently packaged for sale to serve a RW agenda.

[virgogal]

161. It happens to be true.

[lapucelle]

164. The OP still links to a RW source. N/T

[NJCher]

153. it's all over the internet and all kinds of sources have it

anyone can go find other versions.

Just google "pony soldier."

[lapucelle]

163. So the OP did't have to link to a RW source? Wow. N/T

[pnwmom]

136. Except he didn't "snap." He thought he was being funny. I think it was dumb

because the joke just dated him, but he didn't say it in a snapping or angry way.

[MH1]

16. I'd really like to see the full clip in context.

which means, the part right after the clip at the link cuts off. The context up to that point seems clear enough.

I'm generally supportive of Biden - but, wtf? Context may show this to be benign, but with his experience he should know better than to even utter crap like that - WAY too easy to take out of context.

I don't think for one second that he meant it in the way implied in the OP, and as will be implied by others - but I don't really see how he didn't call the woman a liar. He asked if she'd been to a caucus, she said yes, he said "no you haven't, be honest". If he gave her a chance to reply, no really I have! and then took her at her word from there, it could be just joking around. But from what I see he didn't?

Either way, he needs to wake up to the age of "everything is on video - and video can be cut".

Edit to be even more clear: It's obvious to me that Biden was intending to be playful / joking with her. But I think this will be used in the way the OP does. I like Joe as a person, he's infinitely better than the scum in the WH, and better than several of the other primary candidates. But I wish he could figure out how to joke without giving potentially harmful video clips.

[George II]

39. I don't think we'll ever see that. Notice that the woman and the crowd were laughing before....

...he began his answer. We don't even know if he explained the origin of that quote (he didn't make it up himself!!!) in the course of his response.

These events aren't choreographed nation-wide network appearances, they're lighthearted appearances by candidates. I've seen "worse" at campaign events and no one is offended by any of it, knowing the atmosphere inside the venue.

[MH1]

48. Yeah, I hear you, and it is unfortunate.

But Trump supporters will place moles at events like this in the GE.

Remember the "47%" video that hurt Romney's presidential run? I don't think that was taken out of context in any significant way, but it could have been - the technology exists.

They will do that to Biden. SO, I suppose, the campaign should be taping all of these things and releasing videos with full context when someone starts crap like this.

[Duppers]

172. Thank you!

[fallout87]

124. How so?

Its a direct quote.

[whathehell]

133. I have to agree -- He was obviously joking. n/t.

[mr_lebowski]

3. Uhhhhhhhm ... ooooookaaaayyyy there Joe ...

Sweet Mother Mary

I'm beginning to seriously wonder whether Joe is actually in this to win it.

And ... some ... even more disturbing thoughts.

[Autumn]

4. What? He calls a woman a dog face?

Stick a fork in him, he's done

[Pisces]

7. Watch the video.

[George II]

13. That would be too easy and blow up the "narrative". So now a candidate can't joke with his audience.

[Autumn]

26. I did. he called her a liar, that was clear on the video.

[George II]

61. The full video wasn't posted, just what was "needed".

[Autumn]

76. Then George you go right on ahead and post the whole video. I will still maintain

that for a democrat to ask a nervous young woman at their event if she's been to a caucus a "lying dog face pony soldier" is a very stupid thing to do.

[George II]

81. Why should I, Autumn*? I didn't post the original misleading snippet.

To be honest, all the candidates have been in Iowa for at least 48 hours, maybe longer. I don't seen the purpose of lifting a minute here, a minute there of their appearances, more often than not putting the candidates in negative lights.

I wonder why their positions on the issues don't get more attention.

(*I notice you like to put people's names in your responses, Autumn, interesting)

[Autumn]

94. George you're the one telling me to watch it. If you feel that strongly about it post it. I'm not

going to look for it. Yeah, sometimes I do address people by their names. I don't see the purpose of people posting whatever they think may have happened with no proof but you know it happens George. In this case, like with others there is video.

[George II]

101. Autumn, I didn't tell you to watch it. Having pointed that out, I'm sensing a "one and done" coming.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

189. Glad you survived that lol

[George II]

197. Funny how that brought the discussion to a screeching halt!

[Laura PourMeADrink]

200. It's weird. I would never disparage another person's

candidate and argue with that candidate's supporter. Not speak to the virtues of ones own choice..just attack. It's like the test "what would an honest man do" that trump fails every time. "What would a normal Democrat do?" Not this.

[Jirel]

83. This.

It was shockingly bad judgment. It doesn’t matter that is was meant as a joke. It’s not funny when your audience doesn’t know the line or the movie, and it winds up being a weird insult. Yes, it was kidding around, but how it comes off TO YOUR AUDIENCE is what matters in the end.

[Jedi Guy]

140. Weirdly enough, the audience in the hall laughed. Huh. Guess it must've been a joke. N/T

[fallout87]

157. Iwatched the full video

Maybe you can explain what most of us can't see?

[Pisces]

207. You see what you want to see

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. Joe will not be the nominee, let alone the next president nt

[rockfordfile]

54. Are you trolling?

Calling American voters out of touch?

[George II]

63. Considering the "delete" you might have been onto something.

[George II]

6. Obviously he was joking and the woman knew that and took it as a joke! She was very nervous....

....and he was trying to calm her nerves (did you see him take his jacket off and everyone, INCLUDING her, laugh?) She had a wide grin on her face when he said that.

Why do we keep getting these snippets of videos that are suppose to be "exposing" something that isn't really there. Sadly the keep being posted against one candidate in particular.

Come on, let's talk about issues, not non-existent "scandals".

[zackymilly]

12. Awwwww, that's just Joe again. n/t

[WhiskeyGrinder]

17. What's funny or calming about calling someone a lying dog-faced pony soldier? I don't get it.

She had a wide grin on her face when he said that.

Women are socialized to be pleasant in the moment, to not rock the boat or cause embarrassment to others. It's one reason people find it hard to believe women when they say they were uncomfortable or felt threatened in public situations.

Why do we keep getting these snippets of videos that are suppose to be "exposing" something that isn't really there.

It's not a scandal or an exposure. He said it. It's right there.

Sadly the keep being posted against one candidate in particular.

Well, each candidate does have their own quirks.

[George II]

25. So now you're doing a psych workup on her?

Women are socialized to be pleasant in the moment, to not rock the boat or cause embarrassment to others. It's one reason people find it hard to believe women when they say they were uncomfortable or felt threatened in public situations.

That's a misogynistic stereotype. To quote the great Elijah Cummings, "we're better than that!"

It's not a scandal or an exposure. He said it. It's right there.

So he showed up, took a question, answered it with a quip from an old movie and left? No, it was a substantive event. Why not post what happened in the course of his FULL response to her? Would it not have concurred with the conclusion drawn already?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. "Women are socialized to be pleasant" is not a stereotype; it's science. Many people learned more

about that reality during the Kavanaugh hearings.

Why not post what happened in the course of his FULL response to her?

How would the full answer erase the insult he's already said?

[George II]

47. Yeah, now you're comparing a giggling woman to the Kavanaugh hearing? And if we saw the full...

...response chances are we might have found out that it wasn't an insult.

David Letterman used to do a bit on his show where he pieced together short clips of someone to make him/her look foolish or bad (as a JOKE, mind you). It's very effective at giving the wrong impression.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. "chances are we might have found out that it wasn't an insult."

So was it, or wasn't it?

If he didn't come around and address the use of the racist phrase by the end of his answer, does that mean it was an insult?

[George II]

57. Then why are you so reluctant to provide the entire response? And now it's a "racist" phrase?

Unbelievable!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

87. Here's a longer version of the answer.

Link to tweet

[Laura PourMeADrink]

190. You're not female?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

196. I am. Why?

[bluewater]

19. Yeah, no woman does nervous laughter when powerful men are mocking them.

Sure thing.

[George II]

27. Unbelievable.

[bluewater]

46. Biden's comment was truly unbelievable.

And laughing about Biden calling a young female student "A lying dog faced pony soldier" is simply not acceptable.

Shame.

[LakeArenal]

66. By the same folks.

Commented upon by the same commenters.

[denem]

8. What's this 'dog faced' stuff?

You don't say that to a woman, whatever the context.

[Baclava]

105. Exactly, no matter the "context", unelectable

[magicarpet]

9. Biden is so,...

Last edited Sun Feb 9, 2020, 07:13 PM - Edit history (1)

su·per·ca·li·fra·gil·is·tic·ex·pi·a·li·do·cious.



Looking for tomorrow,...

....keep finding yesterday.

[zackymilly]

10. He first called repug congressman Kevin Cramer that name.

While campaigning for U.S. Sen. Heidi Heitkamp in North Dakota on Thursday, Biden slammed her opponent, Congressman Kevin Cramer. Likening Cramer to a “lying dog face pony soldier” from a John Wayne movie, Biden said, “These guys are amazing. They just stand up, flat out, stand up and say things that are absolutely mind-boggling.”

[bluewater]

14. Joe just said WHAT?!?

"No you haven’t. You’re a lying dog-faced pony soldier."

He called a woman that?

Good lord.

[fallout87]

171. I was behind Joe until I found out

he puts his foot in his mouth on a nearly daily basis.

[Demsrule86]

15. It was a joke...but MM was not joking when he used a Homophobic slur against Mayor Pete.

[Mad cow]

24. What does MM have to do with this thread?

John Wilkes Booth sucks too, but it doesn't excuse this exchange. This John Wayne reference is too old for me. If he said it to me, I'd probably tell him he's full of malarkey.

[zackymilly]

28. Diversion. n/t

[Demsrule86]

31. The Sanders crew is beyond...terrible which is why he gets my vote only in a general...

But in this post the facts are twisted into a lie really...a joke is portrayed as something else. But Moore was stone cold serious using a LGBTQ slur...and was representing Sanders while doing so. I have never seen a Democrat do this...much less a surrogate for someone. I haven't heard Sander disavow this or Moore apologize...but maybe it happened.

[Mad cow]

38. Still not relevant to this thread.

I like how people can ascribe a nefarious purpose to the woman's question and tie it all back to the awful Bernie Sanders while excusing that answer as a joke. I thought jokes are supposed to be funny?

[Demsrule86]

50. I fine it relevant...as a joke must be misconstrued to attack Biden...

[Mad cow]

56. As a candidate

He should probably make sure he isn't saying things that can be so easily misconstrued. It isn't funny nor appropriate. She should have said "okay, Boomer" and dropped the darn mic.

[BlueWI]

175. Let the pretzel logic go.

The unfunny joke was a clear mistake by Biden, and it's not a good look in a primary race in a key early state to jokingly call a woman a dog-faced whatever in a Q&A.

Don't defend the indefensible. We're a better party than that.

[HarlanPepper]

35. That was okay because it was in service of Bernie.

[Demsrule86]

55. Of course... he is THE CANDIDATE OF THE AGES. (and has my vote in a General)

[Autumn]

42. What about MM is pure whataboutism. Funny how angry some get and toss that accusation

around and turn around and post about MM in a thread about what the one candidate they defend has done .

Perfect whataboutism. I salute you.

[Demsrule86]

51. But you gave me an entire huge link for a whataboutism post on the MM

thread.

[Autumn]

68. That's kind of odd since I have MM trashed by keyword. You will have to point out that thread.

The only thing I have posted to you today was in response to my post highlighting bad behavior by other supporters of candidates on Twitter. Particularly a banned troll who pretended to support a candidate then on twitter was looking for people to falsely accuse Bernie of inappropriate behavior. I mentioned whataboutism, well actually the term I used about those twitter posts was

doesn'tcountbecauseit'sIhatebernieism

Unless it was a while back, I don't see threads on MM.

[Demsrule86]

98. I guess I could send you the link...it had 16 stuff on it so it really can't be discussed.

[Autumn]

102. Then you're wrong, it wasn't in a MM thread. It was a pic of screen capped tweets from Twitter.

Highlighting the behavior of Twitter supporters of the other candidates. I thought it was hilarious of Harvey Weinstein to call Bernie sexist in 2016. What did you think of the banned troll asking for people to lie and falsely accuse Bernie of inappropriate behavior just to get rid of him? I think that is a nasty thing to do. Don't you?

[Demsrule86]

130. So sorry...a different Whataboutism post...and I am sending you the link...about how Sanders

supporters were a bit unruly (to say the least) at a New Hampshire dinner...to laugh at Biden's stutter really? And of course the booing of other candidates. I am sending you the info...



https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=491832

[whathehell]

135. Who is "MM"?

[Jedi Guy]

148. Guessing they're referring to Michael Moore. N/T

[whathehell]

160. I would guess that too,

but I can't believe he would actually say that.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

18. Jesus Christ . I thought this would be The Onion or Borowitz.

He actually called a woman a dog face.

Unfuckingbelievable.

[myohmy2]

69. I totally agree...

...unbelievable...

[squirecam]

21. I watched the video

And I think it’s between the “nothing to see here” and “worst thing ever”.

Yes she seemed nervous. Yes he tried to calm her. Yes if she is a student in NH she has likely never voted in a caucus. Yes the context of her question seemed more negative then a typical “undecided” voter.

But using dog face isn’t a good metaphor. At all.

[krissey]

64. A lot of people have been asking exactly that question. It was bold, and good for her for being so

bold, facing a VP, man of importance, on national tv. She was totally respectful in the asking. It was a legit question.

[squirecam]

73. Then why......lie.....

She is a student. NH doesn’t have a caucus, and she may be too young to have attended the last one anyway.

Yes, she was nervous. But you could also tell she was against Biden. Why he did poorly in the Iowa caucus....

I think it may come out later that she supports Bernie or Warren.

Which isn’t a problem, except when your question is biased and you then cover up that bias. She hasn’t been to a caucus, the one in Iowa was fraught with problems, etc.

The language Biden used was clearly wrong. But she shouldn’t have lied.

[krissey]

78. I am not going to call her a liar. I do not know shit about her life experiences or how old she is.

[squirecam]

86. I don't either.

But when the context of your question 2 days before the election is not a policy question, but why did you suck in Iowa, knowing that Iowa was a shit show, it does evidence bias.

[krissey]

90. It is a perfectly legitimate question many of us are asking and now you define what is acceptable to

ask or not, after calling the woman a liar. No.

[squirecam]

91. He did it the wrong way. Clearly.

But he is allowed to point out bias.

[krissey]

93. Thank you. That is all.

[bahrbearian]

106. You don't know if she Lied.

Instead of insulting her he could have asked her were she has Caucused. Not very Smart.

[BlueWI]

174. Biden didn't ask if she had been to the Iowa Caucus.

He asked if she had been to a caucus. There are many kinds of caucuses. It's a common term in the contexts of student organizations and affinity groups.

Why would you assume that she's deceptively trying to say she's been to the Iowa Caucus?

There's no defending Biden's unfunny and ill timed joke. Why try?

[Blues Heron]

181. how on earth would you know if she's been to a caucus?

[Blues Heron]

180. She didn't say she voted in a caucus

[B Stieg]

23. He needs a rhetoric coach.

I'm 10 years younger than Joe, but I grew up hearing and seeing the same sorts of majoritarian language as he occasionally slips into.
IMHO, while he had a respite as his recognizable face and name kept him ahead in the polls, he should have used the time to "modernize" ("postmodernize"?) his approach and, even more importantly, his thinking.

[booley]

29. Biden has done this a lot

Maybe this time it was somehow innocent and misrepresented.

I am not sure how you call, someone, a lying dog face pony soldier in a good way but ok. I guess it's in the rest of the video that the Biden defenders here cant' seem to find but assure us exist.

But then what about the immigration activist Biden told to vote for Trump?

What about the Iowa guy asking Biden about pipelines? The one Biden accused of being a secet Bernie supporter and grabbed his coat?

What about "WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!!!"?

Biden does this sort of thing a lot. So how is he going to handle trump?

[squirecam]

43. Why do Bernie supporters boo other Democrats

They do that a lot as well.

Biden will handle Trump fine. If he gets there.

[zackymilly]

30. A female student. I wonder how many times she's going to be called that on campus now. n/t

[JudyM]

125. That's so true. The dog-faced part is just gross to say, regardless of the historical basis.

[MarcA]

34. It's time to stop with the excuses for his behavior. n/t

[bluewater]

36. Wasn't that comment also racist mocking Native Americans?

"pony soldiers" is what Native Americans called the US Army Calvary during the genocidal "Indian wars" in the 1870's, back in Custer's time.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

40. I've edited this post.

It originally said:

It's a line from a John Wayne movie. Biden has used the phrase before to describe Republicans. The line is delivered in the movie by someone who is in redface. Why Biden thinks it's a useful phrase to have handy is beyond me.

But I can't find the exact line in any one movie; I now think he's combining a couple of go-to phrases. And the claim that it's delivered by someone in redface is unsubstantiated. My apologies for the confusion. I stand by my final sentence.

[bluewater]

52. "Why Biden thinks it's a useful phrase to have handy is beyond me."

+1000

That redface information clinches it.

Thanks.

[stopdiggin]

110. do you read the posts you respond to?

delivered by someone in redface is unsubstantiated. My apologies for the confusion.

unsubstantiated .. but that's the "clincher." Okay then.

[bluewater]

114. That post was editted. duh. But "lying dog faced pony soldier" is still racist.

So Joe is pedaling racists lines from old John Wayne movies said by an actor that may or may not have been Native American. OK.

But, I bet SOMEONE will try to say Joe repeating a stereotypically racist bit of dialog from an old John Wayne movie isn't being racist in 2020.

I'll wait right here for that to happen. lol

[stopdiggin]

138. you DO understand?

that "dog faced pony soldier" is a slur aimed at the WHITE guys (pony soldier = the US cavalry) don't you?

And now it is "a racist bit of dialogue" because it "might" have been uttered by a NA actor?

I'll admit .. you've really got me confused ..
Or is this argument just for the sake of argument?
- -

[bluewater]

152. You DO understand it is a sterotypical racist portrayal of Native Americans?

lol

Seems not.

The stereotypically racists line of dialog "lying dog faced pony soldier" wasn't a big enough tip off?

And CONTINUING to parrot that racists portrayal is supposed to be OK for a Democratic candidate for President in 2020?

Um, no.

That's disqualifying.

[stopdiggin]

185. Ah. so ANY dialogue from

a John Wayne western .. delivered by ANY actor be they white, red, black, female or Martian .. is racist.

I think I'm getting a clearer picture ...
Thanks for the help!
-- -- --

[bluewater]

191. C-

[HeartlandProgressive]

194. You always were an easy grader

C- is too generous. Hardly any effort went into that response and the logic was transparently flawed.

[bluewater]

195. B+

Shows promise

[Jedi Guy]

154. I feel like the person you're responding to should read your screen name.

The mental gymnastics to turn this into a "racist" quote have left me dizzy. Kudos to you for following the twists and turns.

[BeyondGeography]

62. It's that famous Biden discipline at work again

Or lack thereof.

[krissey]

65. Joe being Joe. That didn't work day one, and certainly not at this point.

[jalan48]

44. I thought the remark was tongue in cheek. nt

[wnylib]

141. Yes, it was tongue in cheek. It was

a joking way of pointing out that he did not believe her claim of having been at a caucus.

It was perceived by the people who were present as a joke. That is clear from their laughter.

He could have handled it differently, by calling her bluff to name the caucus she was at. If she insisted that she had been to one (maybe as a child with an adult?) he could have gone on to say, "Then you may know that they are not very representative of the nation, or even of the state."

The only harm I see in his comment is that he gave fuel to his competition to misrepresent his intent to dispute her claim in a joking manner.

How will he stand up against Trump, the guy who assaults women, supports racist neo Nazis? I csn't see that Trump or his followers have a leg to stand on.

[JDC]

45. He's joking, but jeezus H.

I am starting to feel like he is about done tbh. I get gaffes and all, and let stuff like this go mostly, but F'n A what was that?

[Tom Rinaldo]

71. Yeah, I don't think he was being serious or intentionally "mean" either. But that was simply "off"

A swing and a miss at humor on dicey grounds with risky consequences. Four out of five people on the receiving end of a comment like that may laugh along with it and feel fine, but for another person the memory of "being called a liar" by a former Vice President could negatively linger. Having said that it is difficult for anyone to be in the public glare 15 hours a day and odd comments sometimes happen.

[ismnotwasm]

53. First Biden didn't "snap"

Second, it was a stupid retort to a nervous young women, but he went on to answer her question in a congenial manner.

The quote is one he’s used before, it’s from a John Wayne movie and Biden needs to stop using John Wayne quotes to people who have no context for it. Or even care to have context.

[squirecam]

58. Agreed

Nt

[krissey]

67. He didn't snap. Not a fan of John Wayne and didn't know it was a quote.

I was trying to decide if just a joke, or he meant it. First off, just a wow.

[Mersky]

70. +1

[krissey]

59. Wow

[stonecutter357]

72. I'll take joe over BS anyday !

[krissey]

80. Me, too. Joe is #4. Bloomberg #5. Only if the other four do not pull it out.

[BlueWI]

178. Well, you may not get that option of taking Joe

if he doesn't put that pea shooter away and stop aiming for his foot.

[Voltaire2]

184. You are going to have to substitute for Joe.

He's not going to get much further. His backers are going to flip over to Bloomberg.

[HDSam]

74. It leads me

to believe he thinks this is just the most awesome quote ever and he really wants to find a way to use it, even though it can easily be construed any number of ways and is not at all relevant to the question.

He’s behind in the polls and he needs a cool sound bite that’s newsworthy but this surely wasn’t it.

[Fiendish Thingy]

75. Despite the antics of some Bernie supporters, Biden's string of abusive comments disqualify him

This example is just the latest in a string of Biden’s rude, abusive comments to audience members, most undeserved.

It’s one thing for a candidate’s supporters to behave inappropriately, but when the candidate crosses the line, repeatedly, it’s disqualifying.

[MarcA]

95. Hopefully more will come to accept this view. n/t

[Corgigal]

111. Even if she was a mole,

he could have walked away from her and answered the question away. It’s a regular question, and it’s more about what the other people in the audience think. They may just see a young lady trying to make up her mind for the process. If they think that, his answer may have taken away a vote from someone else. It’s not time to get defensive.

[squirecam]

201. What about the campaign staff?

Nt

[Jirel]

77. Let's clean this shitshow up.

For those who can’t see the clip through Twitter, here it is.

Watch and see for yourself before comment.

My own takeaway was this is almost, but not quite, a game ender for Joe Biden.

1. He was trying to be funny. He wasn’t. It was inappropriate in part because it’s such an old movie line that the person he said it to (and much of the audience) has probably never seen the movie, and probably would have no interest in it. So a poor joke becomes insulting, and definitely fodder for right wing media. Which brings us to...

2. What a shocking bit of bad judgment. That’s what puts this into disqualification territory. Insults, even meant as a joke, are bad juju in this setting. Using lines/references from ancient movies that nobody in a generation has probably watched to do it - super bad choice.

It shows that he may be a great guy to have beers with, and has tons of political experience, but he is fundamentally out of sync with a good chunk of the electorate, and not thinking about how to communicate or how his words might hurt a supporter. That’s a Donald Trump kind of behavior, that we do not need more of. I will still vote for him if nominated, but once again he has dropped a notch in any chance that I might support him in any way.

[Mad cow]

79. It also lends itself to an artful comeback

A simple "okay, Boomer" from that woman would have left a mark.

[krissey]

82. Or, ok old man. I guess we have opened the door to possibilities. I am glad he didn't

tell her to vote for Sanders.

[DesertRat]

116. Except, having been born in 1942 he isn't a Boomer. nt

[Mad cow]

119. Fair point...

But neither is she a lying dog-faced pony soldier...and only one of the two is a response from this millenium.

[rzemanfl]

162. When my kids were little I used to enjoy washing their tiny little socks.

Then I would watch John Wayne movies on TV.

[whistler162]

97. You should be banned for.....

posting the actual video. ;}

Funny not so much but not egregiously so.

[melman]

84. He said this same thing at another event in January

The one where he said "no one understood Obamacare"

[WhiskeyGrinder]

89. Just saw that. It sounded a little more like "lying dog-faced pony show." I understand relying

on phrases to give yourself time to think in a public setting, but these phrases are bizarre.

[melman]

100. They are

especially when you say them to people that are never going to get the reference. I am a lot older than these two and I had no idea it was from a movie. I doubt most people would but especially not people that young.

It reminds me of the the "gay waiter" story from a while back. Why he would consider these things go-to lines and stories is anyone's guess but it's something he tends to do..even when asked not to by staff apparently.

[booley]

85. Biden has done this a lot

Remember the Immigration activist Biden told to vote for trump?
Remember the Iowa guy asking about pipelines that Biden accused of being a Sanders plant and grabbed his coat?
Remember "WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY!!!"???

IF Biden cant' handle people respectfully asking him questions or disagreeing with him, how is he going to deal with Trump?

[lunasun]

92. Can someone explain ... Did she say yes she had or did he just say no she had not after she shrugged

nodded or something . I never her see her reply but if he is saying she is a liar what is going on ?

I have no idea if so, why he called her liar and dog face Is she a foot soldier for Bernie in his opinion ?
She said she was a local student doesn’t seem like a campaign troll and was polite but firm .
I don’t get the accusation fit the question if that’s what he means but others say it has to do with a John Wayne movie ?
🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶🐶

[Kingofalldems]

96. Not really a good try there.

[BusyBeingBest]

99. Biden has some weird moments while campaigning.

Unsettling. He's under a great deal of strain and it shows. He's trying to make a joke here, though, I don't believe he meant to hurt her feelings.

[Renew Deal]

103. Has anyone verified if this is real?

[DesertRat]

112. Another longer video

Link to tweet

[Renew Deal]

117. Thanks. This is verified. WaPo picked it up

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-jokingly-calls-voter-who-asked-about-iowa-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier/2020/02/09/9e8da478-4b75-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

[Fresh_Start]

104. Well that does it, Biden makes idiotic jokes which aren't appreciated

off with his head

Agree its a completely unforced stupid thing to say...

[Quixote1818]

107. He was kidding around. Let's get real.

I have been tough on Joe but this is him just being goofy.

[Green Line]

109. Yes he was, it doesn't deserve the drama

[eilen]

176. He told a Dad joke that was from 2 generations ago.

Maybe my Dad would have gotten it (being told it from his Dad). I don't think anyone got the reference.

[DesertRat]

108. "Lying dog-faced pony soldier"

What on earth is that?

Link to tweet

[Renew Deal]

115. Something related to a John Wayne movie

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-jokingly-calls-voter-who-asked-about-iowa-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier/2020/02/09/9e8da478-4b75-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

[George II]

113. BIG swing and a miss! See:

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/482241-biden-calls-woman-at-campaign-event-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier

Former Vice President Joe Biden joked that a woman at a New Hampshire campaign event is a "lying dog-faced pony soldier" in response to a question about his performance in the Iowa caucuses.

The woman, who said she is an economics major, asked the Democratic presidential candidate how he explains his standing after Iowa, where the former vice president emerged in fourth place.

"Good question. Number one Iowa is a Democratic caucus. Ever been to a caucus?" Biden asked the woman.

She reportedly responded that she had.

No you haven't, you're a lying, dog-faced pony solider. You gotta be honest," Biden responded to laughter, using a joke his campaign said he has made before.

As the clip of the interaction began making the rounds, Biden's campaign rushed to point out the line was a joke he had made multiple times and was met with laughter.

Link to tweet

[melman]

120. Oh!

His campaign says it's okay. That totally settles it then.

[George II]

122. No, not "his campaign", but most who were there.

Good to see you, sir!

[melman]

129. @RemiMYamamoto traveling nat'l press sec traveling nat'l press sec 🚉✈️ @JoeBiden .

How is that not his campaign?



Also, please save the mock pleasantries. They are not wanted or appreciated. Thanks!

[George II]

143. Did you watch the video? The room was FULL of people, RemyMYamamoto is one person. Next?

[Renew Deal]

126. The woman was "shaken" by the comment according to WaPo

"What happened next left her a little shaken, Moore said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/biden-jokingly-calls-voter-who-asked-about-iowa-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier/2020/02/09/9e8da478-4b75-11ea-9b5c-eac5b16dafaa_story.html

[WhiskeyGrinder]

134. ThEn WhY dId ShE LaUgH????????????

[krissey]

139. That's a pretty normal response when put in a confrontational position, in a group of supporters, on

national tv, and being so young and inexperienced, you think?

I have a young woman I work with and when men inappropriately hit on her, making her uncomfortable, she does a laugh. I have been working with her for about a year to get her past that, own her space and stand up for herself. Girls are conditioned from the get go with a certain behavior. I will trust her saying she was uncomfortable. And not call her a liar again.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

144. Oh absolutely. I was being sarcastic.

My heart sank for her when I saw the clip for the first time.

[Aaron Pereira]

118. Biden tries this with voters in South Carolina his campaign is going to end quickly.

He seems to have a mean streak when it comes to ordinary voters with questions.

[Newest Reality]

131. Whew!

Talk about much ado!

I hope we will channel that spirit of strong conversation about an event into the vital struggle for our democracy ahead. If so then, that's going to be helpful.

[book_worm]

132. Not funny and an unforced error

We can expect Biden's showing in NH to further deteriorate. Hopefully that will help Amy K or Pete.

[Lady_Chat]

137. If this is coming from a Conservative source, it could be a " 'deepfakes'. There is one of Obama

calling Trump a dip shit in a public video, and you know that would never happen. More at this link:

"A viral video that appeared to show Obama calling Trump a 'dips---' shows a disturbing new trend called 'deepfakes'"

https://www.businessinsider.com/obama-deepfake-video-insulting-trump-2018-4


Think this should be checked out thoroughly before sharing.

[IronLionZion]

142. Which John Wayne movie?

I don't get the reference. Supposedly he's said this lots of times.

[Blues Heron]

182. Here's more at this Vanity Fair link

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/02/joe-biden-calls-someone-a-lying-dog-faced-pony-soldier-for-the-second-time

[Beartracks]

146. Wow, so many replies indicate people didn't watch the video. Context is always important.

My first thought at the OP was: WTF, Joe? So I watched the video clip.

It's a short clip, but it's clear that the interaction between Joe and the crowd is jovial, so the "pretend" insult fits in with Joe's repartee. In context it is clear -- clear -- that the words were not an insult, and that they were weren't received as an insult.

But the headline is conveniently damning-sounding for those who want it to be damning-sounding.

Seriously, people, we shouldn't be going off half-cocked based on headlines.

=============

[TwilightZone]

156. Watching the video would ruin the opportunity for outrage.

It's easier to use it to fuel the outrage machine if one doesn't bother with context.

[zackymilly]

147. Just think if Bernie had said this. n/t

[melman]

150. The outrage would never end

[still_one]

155. Except Sanders and his surrogates effectively did call Warren a liar, and didn't mean it as a joke

and barely a day went by and it was brushed aside

[NotHardly]

149. How the hell does he think it's amusing calling a woman or anyone a "lying dog-faced pony soldier"?!

He'll be 79 yrs old by the time November rolls around and as much as I respect some of my capable elders, he's tired, a foul-mouthed bigot/misogynist and we already have one of those.

[Hekate]

158. Reliable source for video? Truncated? Full context? Out of context? This begs more questions...

...than it answers.

[lutherj]

165. This could be the equivalent of Howard Dean's scream. Everyone will take it out

of context but it could end his campaign.

[virgogal]

169. Even taken IN context it was a dumb thing to say.

[lutherj]

205. Absolutely. Biden has a history of these kind of gaffes.

[mgcgulfcoast]

167. Biden showing why he was never a serious contender.

Needs to drop out.

[Atticus]

202. "Never a serious contender?" Say good night, Gracie! nt

[BlueStater]

168. WTF?

I doubt many college students have seen John Wayne movies.

Might want to update your references, Biden. Comments like this make you look old as hell and just confuse people.

[BlueWI]

170. Bush league comment by Biden.

He needs to raise his standards for how to interact with young voters, to be sure.

There are more kinds of caucuses than just the events during the presidential campaign. Student government, whatever - unbelievable that some folks in this thread are assuming the young woman is lying.

There's no defending these unforced errors. Biden and the campaign and DU all need to expect and demand better. The stakes are too high for applause lines from 1970.

[VMA131Marine]

173. Has Biden said he likes soldiers who weren't captured yet ?

Just checking .....

[cherryinpa]

179. I know what you mean

But I definitely don't think Budens comment was with malice.

Silly and probably should have been avoided? Yes, but wrong to compare with Trump.

Trumps comments were with malice and intended to insult, thats a whole different standard than Biden.

[still_one]

188. It wasn't. Come on, does calling someone a ""Lying dog-faced pony soldier" sound serious?

While I understand that the woman may have been too young to appreciate the humor, and Biden should have probably realized that,

he was effectively making a parody of himself by saying it

[Lunabell]

183. Jerk

[still_one]

186. "Lying dog-faced pony soldier", sure sounds like a serious phrase to me.

The Onion a few days ago had their usual sarcastic wit with this headline:

"‘You’re A Piece Of Shit And I Hope Everyone Like You Dies,’ Says Biden To Democratic Voter In Stirring Call For Party Unity"

We have lost our sense of humor, and while I can understand that the woman may have been too young to understand it was a joke, and Biden should have probably realized that, in general we have lost our sense of humor or sarcasm, and that is quite sad. No doubt because of what we have been through the last several years

[WhiskeyGrinder]

198. At what age does someone understand that someone with more power than you calling you a liar is

a joke?

[totodeinhere]

187. The audience laughed. I suspect that Joe was trying to be humorous and his joke

just didn't come out right. After all, Joe is only human. It's been a long and tiring campaign and shit is going to happen.

[FloridaBlues]

192. This is the 5th post of the same subject. We are in the silly crazy season now

Take a breather people.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

199. Yeah, but mine was FIRST.

[FloridaBlues]

206. They all copied you.

[Tiggeroshii]

193. ...

https://politics.theonion.com/you-re-a-piece-of-shit-and-i-hope-everyone-like-you-di-1841363666

[Aussie105]

203. Is this another thread about not voting for

a particular Dem candidate and the reason is an out of context part of a longer dialogue?

Oh, ok then.

Got to wonder the motivation behind staring this thread.

But expect more of the same.

eg

<candidate> : That's a nice black Labrador you have there!

Commentator: Goodness! <candidate> is being racist! Can't possibly vote for him!

Yes, made that up. But you get the idea.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

204. "Got to wonder the motivation behind staring this thread."

I saw that Biden had said something shitty and thought people should know about it, the end.

Whoever my candidate is, I don't want any surprises when it's them against Trump.

[Anaxamander]

208. Yeah this is fucked up

I can't believe how some Biden supporters are spinning this as no big deal. WTF

[Doremus]

209. Can't we find something more substantial to criticize him for? This one is ridiculous. nt