Bernie Sanders' real obstacle is not Trump. It's the Democratic establishment

[peoli]

Even in our pitifully broken semi-democracy, rich people shouldn’t be in charge. The math is against them. There are, by definition, comparatively few rich people, and many middle- and lower-class people. In a two-party system where one party represents the interests of the rich and the other party is meant to represent the interests of everyone else, logic says that the rich people party should lose most of the time, based on sheer numbers. The political power of plutocrats should be arbitraged out of existence as parties seek a larger base.

Instead, though, Republicans control the White House and the courts, most state legislatures and half of Congress, business lobbying is a billion-dollar industry, and all the teachers are still waiting for the day when the air force has to hold a bake sale to buy a bomber. Why?

Yes, our electoral system is in substantial ways anti-democratic, and the influence of money in politics is pernicious, and Republicans suppress the vote in earnest. But those things have been true forever. They are a given. The job of capitalizing on the enormous demographic disadvantage that the upper class faces in the class war falls to the Democratic party. The Democratic party, however, has never had any interest in really capitalizing on it.

Now, Bernie Sanders is threatening to make the class war reality by winning the Democratic presidential nomination. His biggest obstacle is not the Republican candidate – a rich, evil cartoon man who is a perfect foil for Bernie’s analysis of what plagues us – but the Democratic establishment. In their eyes, he is an existential threat to their traditional approach of determining their stance on moral issues by finding a point halfway between “What’s right” and “What the Koch brothers are advocating via attack ads.”


https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/31/bernie-sanders-election-trump-democratic-establishment

[scheming daemons]

1. His main obstacle is his agenda is the same as Corbyn's

..and is unpopular everywhere but the deepest blue enclaves.

[DanTex]

5. A right-wing campaign to paint him as anti-semitic? Or waffling on Brexit?

Somehow I doubt those are going to come up with Bernie.

[stopdiggin]

12. ouch! that left some marks! (nt)

[OnDoutside]

19. Actually, wasn't there a Democratic Friends of Israel ad

attacking Bernie in the last few days ? Think it was mentioned on Pod Save America.

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

46. Liberals were shocked by the anti-Semitism of Jeremy Corbyn and his inner circle.

Are you trying to defend him here?

Worst defeat since 1935 against an unpopular opponent.

Let's not follow suit.

[dbolski]

53. Please don't speak for other voters

I have family in the reddest parts of swing states that are voting for Bernie.

[ahoysrcsm]

69. That tells more about Senator Sanders, than it does your family.

Senator Sanders is running an outsiders campaign, and failing spectacularly at it.

[NJCher]

2. it's true

Bernie is the only candidate who has people "from within" attacking him. Still, he prevails.

[Thekaspervote]

7. oh really?? Then let me introduce you to David Sirota and Nina Turner

[demosincebirth]

15. He's somewhat of carpetbagger

[NJCher]

39. why would you use that word?

A carpetbagger is someone from the north who went to the South after the Civil War to take advantage of Reconstruction.

What's the Democratic Party (Reconstruction, in your analogy) done for Bernie? They don't have any money, they're almost always broke, yet Bernie has an endless supply of money from small donors. You should be happy Bernie hasn't started his own party because then there might be little left to the Democratic party.

[demosincebirth]

61. It has a broader definition, now, than what you're trying to imply.

Never was a Democrat until he saw an opening to run for president as a dem. Why didn’t he run as an independent like he is?

[NJCher]

62. I think he should have

however, then we would be listening to howls and screams about how he destroyed the Democratic party.

[treestar]

24. He hasn't prevailed at anything

He lost the 2016 primary. He will lose this one too. The majority of Democratic voters don't want him as the nominee. Why is that so difficult to understand?

[NJCher]

43. Here's why it's so difficult to understand

First of all, in regard to your first statement, "he lost the 2016 primary," there is a big difference of opinion on that. "History is written by those who hang heroes."

In regard to your second statement, don't quit your day job for that of prognosticator.

You are referring to a national poll which says 26% of Democrats want Biden, vs. 19% for Bernie. However, I have been telling everyone here for a long time that this is merely name recognition in the early stages of the campaign. I say that as a former national marketer who knows what happens when choice is presented to the consumer in a nationally known brand (in this case politician). What I said is that when voters get closer to their choice, they will change their opinion if there are advantages to that change. Minds do not change easily. There has to be a clear advantage to the new choice, and this is exactly what is happening: Voters see that Sanders offers more than Biden as a candidate.

Understand that Biden only had a lead in the beginning because he was nationally known, moreso than Bernie. Understand that Biden's lead wasn't substantial at that time. He was Tide and Bernie was Arm & Hammer. We are seeing that his support was a mile wide and an inch deep (sorry about the cliche, but it is appropriate).

Bernie Sanders grabs lead in California presidential primary

Why is he within margin of error to Biden in Texas? Bernie Sanders surges in Texas three weeks before early voting, poll shows.

Biden's supposed strength was voters of color. Reported in the NY Times today: Hmmm...

Bernie Sanders’s Surge Owes a Lot to Voters of Color

I could go on and on. The stories of Bernie Sanders pulling ahead of Biden are replete. However, should you have any doubt, go check it out yourself on Google.

So to answer your question, what's so difficult to understand is why anyone would prefer a candidate who says he might choose a republican as a running mate. Why anyone would choose a candidate who has made his record clear on banks vs. the people. I could go on in the comparison, but I don't think I need to. Anyone who knows the issues knows who the best candidate is.

[treestar]

45. Still more of the voters want Biden

There's no sense talking to anyone who can't recognize that Bernie lost the 2016 primary. Bernie lost to Hillary in that primary.

Joe has the support of 53% of the base - African American voters. That's just a fact.

Name recognition - absurd. Bernie has been nationally known since the 2016 election campaign. Joe's lead has kept up and if it were nothing but name recognition (rather insulting to those voters) then Bernie or someone else would be way ahead by now.

Bernie is not pulling ahead of Biden in any polling average. He never pulled ahead of Hillary, in spite of DU claims he was all along.

The claims of rigging are absurd and every entitled. The party has its long term history and suddenly it should change the rules to the way a candidate who is not in the party except to run for POTUS wants them. And as if the rules are paramount over the votes.

[NJCher]

52. links please

otherwise your post will be considered to be made up of your belief system, which as of now appears to consist of wishful thinking.

Back up your claims with research if you wish to be taken seriously.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

29. Yes, Bernie prevails due to what I call the Baseless Bernie Bashing Backlash...

It's because of all the ridiculous reasons for which Bernie's being attacked, that is PRECISELY why the working class in this country absolutely LOVE Bernie and we have HIS back the way he's had OURS for decades!! President Sanders will get the last laugh... all the way to the White House!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[CentralMass]

57. Nicely said.

[question everything]

3. This is rich!

He is not a Democrat but is upset at the party?

Go join the party and then you can try change it from within. Will he support the nominee? Will he tell his supporters to do do?

[Thekaspervote]

6. Sanders has already publicly stated he may not support the eventual dem nominee

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/06/bernie-sanders-2016-rigged-wont-pledge-support-winner.html

[question everything]

9. Then why is he even a Democratic candidate?

[Hav]

26. Because his chances becoming the President

running for the Socialists are even slimmer. Plus, he'd get less public recognition which he needs to sell his books.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Bernie's been changin the Democratic Party from within for yrs w/his aggressive progressive agenda

A progressive agenda that's been adopted by his fellow Democrats over decades. And Bernie and his supporters most certainly will support the Democratic nominee, given that the nominee will be no other than Bernie himself... so, I don't see a problem there!!


Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[highplainsdem]

4. More pro-Sanders garbage attacking the Democratic Party from a very

leftwing writer.

[Quixote1818]

20. Not attacking the Democratic Party. Attacking a handful of powerbrokers who have stepped up the

attacks on Sanders now that he is poised to win the first two states. As a Warren supporter it was pretty obvious that out of the blue were a ton of new very vicious attacks.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

32. DING DING DING!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[highplainsdem]

40. No, that article attacks most Democratic lawmakers and the Democrats who elected them. The

majority of the party.

It's an attack on the majority by a member of the minority who believes only his minority is "sane" and "moral."

Incredibly self-righteous, and stupid.

Including stupidity like this:

an entire basketball team’s worth of Democrats arose to run on platforms that were explicit rejections of his wild socialist beliefs like “humans should have healthcare and education”

That's a flat-out lie smearing every Democratic candidate.

But to some Sanders true believers, only Sanders ever cared about social welfare and social justice.

The author of that article is an idiot, blind to reality.

[emmaverybo]

51. +1000

[treestar]

60. Like who?

People can say what they want, no matter how powerful they are. Why shouldn't Bernie get criticism? You've had your field day attacking Hillary or Biden or whoever as "establishment" and "corporatist" and Bernie doesn't get a turn?

[msongs]

8. sometimes its never too early to start blaming everyone but yourself nt

[highplainsdem]

10. The nitwit who wrote that piece for the Guardian also says the next three generations of a

president's family should have to work at Family Dollar.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/11/hunter-biden-democrats-joe-biden-ukraine-trump

The next three generations of a president’s family should have to work the checkout line at Family Dollar. What better way to stay in touch with the pulse of America? What better way to demonstrate how much they value hard work, and the gargantuan struggle to join the middle class? This simple rule would prevent political dynasties, which are always and everywhere antithetical to a well functioning democracy. We don’t need more Bushes in the White House, nor more Kennedys in Congress, nor more of the few good media jobs taken up by people who attended Sidwell Friends school while escorted by armed guards. An absurd share of life’s rewards are not a birthright for the spawn of public servants. Give the rest of the world a chance, you greedy little cloistered aristocrats.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

11. What a pantload.

[betsuni]

13. LOL

Upper class
Class war
Morals
Third Way
Wall Street throwing money at Biden
Backers of the Iraq War
Existential threat
Democrats despise Bernie
Clinton wing of the Democratic Party
Democrats don't care if poor people die
40 years of triangulation and appeasement
Establishment
Inspired
Regular Democratic issues, healthcare and education, depicted as radical "wild socialist" things only Sanders fights for

I don't like fiction.

[stopdiggin]

14. a colorful screed taken from a Brit newspaper

file this one under, "Everyone is entitled to an opinion"

[awesomerwb1]

16. Hilarious

Oh wait. It's not the Onion???

[yaesu]

17. Citizens United gave us the corporatist controlled government we have today, Bernie is their worst

nightmare & they better get ready to lose a lot of sleep or take up ASMR.

[Hav]

28. Why would he be their worst enemy?

If by some miracle he'd win, then just like during his 30 year career as a politician, he'd get nothing done. A lame duck right from the start.

[tirebiter]

18. Sanders has no concept of being working class

He's never had a real job.

[octoberlib]

21. Bernie Sanders isn't a Democrat and has zero

say in how this party should be run.

[Squinch]

22. BS's real obstacle is his followers and his failure to stop them from being ridiculous.

[treestar]

23. It's that he can't win over a majority of primary voters

Why is he so entitled to win that the D party has to make its rules in a way that advantages him? Especially when he is really an Independent. The utter gall and entitledness is appalling.

[Amimnoch]

25. That same pesky establishment that he needs to rely on if he does win at that.

I'm curious how these surrogates think he's going to have the support he'll need after all these attacks to win the GE.

Simple fact: For all the cries of "The Democratic Party can't win without Bernies supporters", the Democratic Party has won many without said supporters... But can Bernie still win without the Democratic Party base that he has continuously insulted for years now? That his campaign leadership turned their backs on in 2016? That many of his surrogates have disparaged and insulted for years now?

Yeah, it's possible that a Democratic Party candidate will have extra difficulty winning without Bernies devoted.. But I'll submit there is NO path for Bernie to win the GE without those same people that he, his campaign, and his surrogates just love to insult.

So yeah, go on, keep on insulting those of us that he'll need if he does secure the nomination.

[beachbumbob]

27. I think the real obstcle for sanders is actually sanders

he has spent a lifetime berating democrats and NOT being a democrat

[apcalc]

33. Agree

[empedocles]

30. BS is the dream candidate of putin/traitortrump - he feels he needs all the

help he can get.

'Understandably'.

[Vogon_Glory]

34. It's nice to think that any Democrat will have a cake-walk to the White House

next November. Unfortunately, I don’t think that enough
moderates and browned-off Ex-Trump supporters are confident enough in Bernie Sanders to give him enough electoral votes to win the White House.

Trumpies have the conceit they can win it alone. Their conceit is unwarranted: they need Democrats to shoot themselves in the foot to win.

[NYMinute]

35. It is written by Sirota's buddy Hamilton Nolan

who also writes for Splinter. Splinter is like intercept, jacobin or commondreams.



Sirota is pulling out all stops to create disinformation.

If Sanders win the nomination with dirty tricks and divisiveness, he will lose the GE because many Democrats will not vote for him. We on DU are different -- there are Democrats out there who don't have to follow DU rules.

The only way Bernie can salvage his legacy is to stop the dirty tricks and support the nominee 200% to beat Trump.

[lapucelle]

38. He's a very bitter ass.

Link to tweet

[UniteFightBack]

42. If anything it's turning people off...like me. nt

[madville]

36. Without a first vote majority

Bernie has zero path to the nomination. Most super delegates will never vote for him.

[Botany]

37. Bernie Sanders' real obstacle is ... he is not a Democrat

n/t

[NYMinute]

47. +++++++

[UniteFightBack]

41. ITS DEM VOTERS THAT ARE IN HIS WAY WE DON'T WANT HIS ASS!! GOT IT.. And next we'll show it. nt

[JudyM]

44. Good article, tells it like it is, which many can't see.

[NYMinute]

48. The article is oblivious to the fact

that the "establishment" doesn't vote -- ordinary people do. They absolutely don't want Bernie.

[JudyM]

49. Making the rules and doling out the $ unfortunately has an enormous impact on voting.

And as to your second point, check the polling. Plenty want him.

[NYMinute]

64. Half are undecided

Of those who are decided, 75% don't want Bernie. They want a Democrat.

[JudyM]

65. Show the data, please.

[NYMinute]

66. It is present in every poll's raw data.

I won't do the work for you. It is for all to see.

[JudyM]

67. I don't see it at all. But that's fine, just thought you might have something I haven't seen.

[question everything]

50. No, it is Sanders supporters - Sack says it best

?auto=compress&crop=faces&dpr=2&w=992&fit=clip&h=406

[emmaverybo]

54. Guess that's why Bernie doesn't take the fight to Trump, but targets Dems instead. Good luck

Last edited Sat Feb 1, 2020, 05:04 PM - Edit history (1)

with trying to cloak one’s own failings as a candidate in class war conspiracies that one insists one’s own party (when one needs it) perpetuates. Good luck encouraging surrogates to smear and mislead about widely respected, extremely popular, and highly accomplished “establishment Dems.”

Voters ask what makes you more qualified to lead this nation, in fact, the world, than your rivals.

Bernie and supporters aren’t engaging that question. I’d be winning if I didn’t threaten the rich and powerful and my rivals are in on the conspiracy does nothing to allay our qualms about Bernie’s tactics, lack of political accomplishment, lack of AA support, past conduct, or ability to
build wider consensus and implement any of his ambitious policies or, in fact, any policy.

Stop whining and show us some leadership and real vision for the entire nation, Bernie, not just your own pet policies. Stop alienating Dems and go after Trump and the Republicans.

[still_one]

55. This Op Ed speaks clearly why Sanders is NOT the best candidate. He has been attacking

what he views as "establishment" Democrats for some time now, and his hiring of Briahna Joy Gray, David Sirota, and Nina Turner only emphasize what a divisive candidate he is, and why he isn't the best nominee for the Democrats

[BannonsLiver]

56. I give this 5 barfs

[Uncle Joe]

58. I believe the author nailed it.

Thanks for the thread peoli.

[treestar]

59. So what is the Democratic Establishment supposed to do?

To satisfy Bernie?

Logic does not say the rich people party will always lose. We know people vote on wedge issues and the idea they will be rich one day.

The system favors the conservatives, with the EC and the Senate and not expanding the House. Quit blaming Democrats for that.

There is no mention of how the Establishment of the Democratic party thwarts Bernie. They don't have to let him run in the primary! Yet they do.

[whistler162]

63. Nope

Bernie Sanders real obstacle is Bernie Sanders!

[jcmaine72]

68. Excellent article. Thanks for posting it.

[MineralMan]

70. I think you mean the Democratic Majority.