If "Bernie can't win" why is it mainly GOPers and GOP-funded groups writing about that?

[DanTex]

There's lots of articles being written and posted about how "Bernie can't win." And, for the most part, they come from either GOPers like David Frum, or GOP-funded groups like Third Way. Yes, there are some non-GOP-aligned people who agree with Frum, as there are people who think only Bernie can win. Without the GOPers thumping against Bernie, there are views and articles voiced in both directions, as there should be. It's an important election, we need to win, and there are good arguments in favor of the electability of both leading candidates.

But the big hammering of the Bernie-cant-win line is coming from GOPers and people funded by GOPers. Even news articles about the "Dem panic" over Bernie, if you look at the sources they interview, lots of the people "panicking" are actually from GOP-funded groups.

Look, I'm sure David Frum is being honest when he thinks Bernie can't win. He was also being honest when he thought the Iraq War was an awesome idea. But you have to admit, there's a bit of a conflict of interest when people who would fight every progressive thing that Bernie stands for with their last dying breath are trying to tell us Dems who we should think is electable.

[SamKnause]

1. The clowns on Morning Joe don't have that problem.

They are terrified he can win and they went after him hard this morning.

[DanTex]

2. Yup. When conservatives complain "Bernie can't win" their real fear is "Bernie can win".

[SamKnause]

5. I will never understand the voters in this country.

I want to live in the country that Bernie and Elizabeth envision.

I want to live in a country that puts its people first.

P.S. Someone on MSNBC, I'm listening not watching, just took a vicious jab at Bernie.

He was a male.

He said nobody is going to vote for someone who wants Sharia Law.

The media in this country is despicable.

[Demsrule86]

7. Then more must support your candidates...because you know what I want to win.

I want to send Trump to the curb. Warren is my second choice...and with the right VP (to gain the Mid West) she might win. But Biden has a better chance. This election isn't about making our progressive dreams come true...although you are wrong about Biden...he is and always was a liberal/progressive. This election is about getting the orange would be dictator out of the white house.

Some seem to have forgotten this with dreams of M4A and free college. Neither of which will ever happen no matter who wins. I see Sanders supporter posting old shit about Social Security but (oh noes) during those years, Sander was also forced to say shit he wished he never did...it is called getting elected...the true danger for now is Trump. He has said he will come after social security and he will.

All Democrats will protect social security. I will say I do worry a bit about Buttigieg(a liattle) and Bloomberg(a lot)-both I feel could make deals with the Pugs...so we put up best candidate who I think is Biden for the mid west (and south) - polls show I am right...and we send that son of a bitch packing. Also Biden likely has coattails and we might regain the senate...I fear for the House with a Sanders run...and Warren needs to picks someone like Tim Ryan as VP...hell she should pick Tim Ryan. Send him to the moderate / red states...but I still think Biden will win the nomination and the General...thus ending our four year national nightmare.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

27. PRECISELY RIGHT!!

Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join The Revolution!!

[ehrnst]

40. But they aren't - Conservatives are pushing Bernie hard as the best possible Dem nominee...

Republican strategist Karl Rove says Bernie Sanders could beat Donald Trump in 2020

Republicans pray for Bernie as Democratic nominee

Republicans Hope Bernie Sanders is 2020 Nominee

Top Republicans think it’ll be easier to win in 2020 if ‘out-of-the-closet socialist’ Bernie Sanders is the Democratic nominee

Trump: I don't believe Bernie said a woman can't win the presidency

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

3. Third Way is a pro-liberal and pro-liberalism advocacy organization

that is very firmly within the Democratic coalition.

[brooklynite]

9. You'll never convince them...

[DanTex]

22. You'll never convince me that it's honest to take money from Koch Industries

to publish a report advocating a position that would financially benefit Koch Industries. Especially without disclosing the source of the funding.

Yes, that's the sort of thing that "we" will not be convinced of. I mean, will anyone?

[brooklynite]

23. Might want to take that up with their Congressional supporters...

Hon. James E. Clyburn, Assistant House Majority Leader
Hon. Josh Gottheimer
Hon. Jim Jim Himes
Hon. Derek Kilmer
Hon. Lucy McBath
Hon. Gregory Meeks
Hon. Stephanie Murphy
Hon. Donald Norcross
Hon. Scott Peters
etc...

[DanTex]

24. Or we could elect someone like Bernie, to show them and others that we don't need Koch Bros

money in order to win.

[brooklynite]

25. Of course, you have to solve the "winning" part...

[DanTex]

26. Well, Bernie's got the best odds of any Dem right now. But we'll see.

IMO the fact that Koch-funded groups are attacking him is playing to his benefit.

[ehrnst]

34. Because you say so?

[DanTex]

35. Prediction markets.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287459837

[ehrnst]

36. Yes, we all know that gambling odds are always reliable...

Is that your definition of "data?"

[ehrnst]

33. "Honest..". you mean like this?

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2020/jan/09/bernie-sanders/did-biden-laud-paul-ryan-proposal-cut-social-secur/

False statements involving Bernie Sanders
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/false/

Mostly False statements involving Bernie Sanders
https://www.politifact.com/personalities/bernie-sanders/statements/byruling/barely-true/

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — As a congressman in the 1990s, Bernie Sanders expressed an openness to making “adjustments” to the tax and benefit structure of Social Security. He also praised an overhaul of the social safety net program signed into law by President Ronald Reagan that reduced benefits and increased taxes on working families.

Sanders’ presidential campaign and allies have highlighted similar remarks by Joe Biden to attack the former vice president and make the explosive charge that Biden was an outspoken proponent of slashing the program.

https://apnews.com/31c432f20acba807a569c7004abaf473

Sanders camp admits anti-Warren script was deployed in multiple early states

Sanders initially attributed the talking points to rogue staffers, and supporters launched an online campaign to convince people the document was fake.

And how does one know who one is taking money from if there is a dark money superpac involved?

[DanTex]

12. Third Way is founded and run by Dems, and also it gets funding from GOP donors and corporations.

Those can both be true at the same time. That's not a smear or caricature, it's a fact, and can be verified easily. The links between Third Way and GOP donors have been widely reported on, this isn't some conspiracy theory.

https://www.salon.com/2019/08/14/koch-brothers-funded-centrist-democratic-group-third-way-according-to-new-book/
https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/gop-donors-and-k-street-fuel-third-ways-advice-democratic-party/

I've never said the staffers and management at Third Way aren't Democrats. I'm not familiar with every single person who works there, but the founders are most definitely Dems. That doesn't mean it's wrong of me to point out where the organization's funding comes from.

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

13. LOL. Slimeball reporting from the home of stealth-Trumpist HA HA Goodman

Last edited Fri Jan 31, 2020, 09:49 PM - Edit history (1)

quoting the unreliable far-leftist Intercept? Spare us.

Even that reporting says: "The group[Third Wave] did not report any funding from Koch Industries or their affiliates."

Even if some Republican individual or Republican oriented group did give to an advocacy
group--be it Third Wave or the Sunrise Movement--that DOES NOT make it a GOP funded organization, as you falsely claimed in your OP.


The Republican Party DOES NOT fund Third Way. Third Way is dedicated to helping Democrats win elections and is securely a part of the Democratic coalition.

[DanTex]

15. The reporting about the Koch brothers comes from the book "Kochland" by Christopher Leonard.

I think it's fair to say that Leonard's book exposing of the Koch Brothers influence on politics represents a viewpoint "commonly held by Democrats". The Intercept published excerpts from that book. So your feelings about left-leaning media outlets like Salon and the Intercept aren't relevant. The other story is from the Nation.

No, the Republican Party doesn't fund Third Way. But Republican donors like the Koch Brothers and the big Romney donors cited in the Nation article do, as do a number of different corporations. Whether the Koch brothers are donating to Third Way in order to help Democrats win elections is not something anyone can know without reading the minds of the Koch brothers. I guess everyone can make up their own mind about that.

[OneMoreCupOfCoffee]

17. The reporting said the Koch Bros did not give funding.

So saying they did is gaslighting a group that's part of the Democratic coalition.

[DanTex]

20. That's exactly what the reporting said.

The Koch brothers funded a report about NAFTA by Third Way, in which Third Way advocated for a position that would protect the profits of Koch Industries. This was reported in the book Kochland, by Christopher Leonard, and picked up by various journals like Salon. You can even look directly at that passage in the book online at Google Books:

Any trade disputes ignited by renegotiating NAFTA could dramatically hurt Koch's profitability. Koch's lobbyists knew that they wouldn't get much of a hearing from Democratic politicians. Very few liberals saw an upside in carrying water for Koch. That's why Koch used Third Way to make its point: liberals listened to Third Way.

The Koch lobbying office directed money to support a Third Way report that was published in November of 2007, entitled "Why Lou Dobbs Is Winning." Dobbs was a cable television personality who carved out a niche railing against free trade deals that he said harmed the middle class. The Third Way report cast Dobbs as part of a dangerous "neo-populist" movement that threatened to harm America's future by making the country turn inward. The report did not cite the support from Koch Industries, nor does it appear that Third Way acknowledged Koch's support anywhere in its publicity materials. The report's acknowledgments did give thanks to Rob Hall, a lobbyist for Koch's Invista division, thanking him for "his support in helping us conceive of and design Third Way's trade project," without disclosing Koch or Invista's funding. Third Way was not obligated to disclose its support from Koch Industries in its tax filings, and did not. Koch successfully pushed its view on trade while barely leaving a fingerprint.

What you are referring to is the fact that the Third Way report itself failed to disclose the Koch funding. That's why it took investigative reporting to unwind where the money was actually coming from. The only trace of evidence of Koch funding on the actual Third Way report was a "thank you" to a Koch lobbyist.

Some people might describe taking Koch money to produce a report advocating a position that would financially benefit Koch Industries, and not disclosing that funding, as dishonest. People can make their own minds about that. But that's what happened.

[ehrnst]

38. Failed to disclose it's funding? Well that's shady! Why would anyone trust an org that does that?

What does that say about those who are affiliated with such an org?

According to Our Revolution’s tax returns showing contribution amounts but not contributor names, data compiled and first reported by the Associated Press, from 2016 to 2018 Our Revolution raised almost $1 million dollars from contributors who gave in excess of the applicable $5,000 contribution limit, including multiple contributions of between $100,000 and $300,000. Our Revolution has not disclosed any of its contributors to the FEC, as required by federal campaign finance law.

https://www.commoncause.org/press-release/common-cause-files-complaint-against-pro-bernie-sanders-group-our-revolution-for-violating-soft-money-ban/

[ehrnst]

39. From someone that trusts the Intercept....

[George II]

41. Or:

[LanternWaste]

4. You'll provide the actual numbers, yes?

The objective numbers that support your premise that it's primarily the RW and GOP doing most of the stories yous your reference should be easy to find.




Or (and I'm betting this is a wee bit more likely) are you simply making stuff up again thinking it will help Sanders win the primary...?

[Demsrule86]

6. Never Trumpers...Frum hates Trump for example...they want Trump out and know that Sanders

will not win the states we need which is why Trump praises Sanders and says Democrats are being unfair...I want Trump gone so I am thankful Sanders is not going to win the primary...numbers aren't there. It is about math thank God. That being said if I am wrong, he has my vote.

[DanTex]

10. They hate both Trump and Sanders. As is obvious by their writing.

I'm sure Frum really does think Sanders can't win. He also thought Trump couldn't win. And that the Iraq War was a great idea.

Still, there's a bit of conflict of interest there, when a person who hates everything Sanders stands for is telling people Sanders can't win. Frum doesn't just want to stop Trump from being president, he also wants to stop Sanders from being president.

[LanternWaste]

11. And another allegation lacking any evidence to support it. "As is obvious by your writing"

(post hoc ero propter hoc is fallacy, not evidence...)

[LexVegas]

8. Why do you pretend to be undecided?

[ehrnst]

37. Like anyone believes that...

What does it say about one's own judgement when one assumes everyone around them is that clueless?

[MineralMan]

14. Well, see, lots of people think that Sanders can't win against Trump.

I'm one of them. I think the campaign that will be put up against him will ensure that he loses between 40-45 states to Trump, thus ensuring Trump's reelection, assuming that Donald Trump is actually the GOP nominee, which I don't assume necessarily.

You'll find no GOP funding going into my bank accounts. Just my Social Security and what money I earn by writing content for small business websites.

I'm also not any sort of Republican, as my 50+ year history of working and volunteering in Democratic elections demonstrates.

I don't think Sanders can win, because his past history and poor performance in one-on-one debates make him ill-suited for a serious negative campaign, which the Trump campaign team and others can easily put together without even trying very hard.

You are maligning the Third Way, which consistently works to help Democrats get elected. That's its goal, and it's the same goal Democratic Underground also has. It's my goal, too. In 2020, my goal is even narrower. I want so badly for Donald Trump to be defeated, assuming he is around to run, that my sole goal is to nominate someone who can beat him.

Sanders cannot. Sanders will lose in a landslide if he becomes the Democratic nominee. Turnout will drop drastically, and Trump will prevail.

And, yes, that's my opinion.

[scheming daemons]

16. The opposite is happening. The GOPers are pumping Bernie up.

[Gothmog]

18. The claim in the OP is false

trump and the GOP are not the parties attacking sanders. sanders is such a weak candidate that trump would love to run against sanders

Many real Democrats have strong reservations about sanders. sanders has no major legislative accomplishments and his entire platform has no chance of being adopted without a magical voter revolution which will never occur in the real world

There are a large number of real Democrats who questioning the wisdom of nominating an unelectable and weak candidate like sanders

[R B Garr]

19. You should quit ignoring the Blue Wave of 2018.

That’s the best reference that illustrates what voters actually went for, and it wasn’t Bernie. Those voters preferred more mainstream Democrats.

No need for phony distractions about GOP writers, which is just a fabricated narrative anyway. The reality is that voters spoke with votes in 2018. They didn’t pick Bernie’s revolution.

[ehrnst]

21. The attempt to create an aura of inevitability...

[RandySF]

28. I'm saying he can't win and nobody paid me.

[ehrnst]

32. WAITWHAT? You didn't get your check either???

I'm going to complain DIRECTLY to George Soros and Hillary!!

[joelzz]

29. what about

dump saying he is afraid of Bernie? https://trofire.com/2020/01/27/trump-admits-hes-scared-of-bernie-sanders-in-leaked-footage/

from 2016
But anyway, there was another very important thing that we learned that is pertinent to the primaries and caucuses that are gonna start next week. And that is Donald Trump’s own admission in that tape that he is terrified of Bernie Sanders. That’s a big admission. In the tape, Donald Trump admits to the people in that room that he was terrified that Hillary Clinton was going to choose Bernie Sanders as a, as his running mate, as her running mate, excuse me. And that Bernie was the only person he was hoping she did not pick.

[ehrnst]

30. He was scared of a 2016 Clinton/Sanders ticket because Russia couldn't

target Sanders supporters to make them oppose HRC....

How The Russian Social Media Effort Boosted Bernie

But the GOP was and is chomping at the bit for a Sanders nomination.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/14/us/politics/trump-sanders-bloomberg-2020.html

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/05/07/bernie-sanders-republican-senate-1307296

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/439489-karl-rove-sanders-could-win-presidency-in-2020

Thanks for the opportunity to set you and everyone else reading this straight!

[ehrnst]

31. No links to those "lots of articles?" No surprise...

Is "lots" bigger than "a chunk?"

[Blue_Tires]

42. National Review really seems to love him

I wonder why...