Caucuses.

[sheshe2]

Putting this here because it is about both past and present. It is about our 2020 candidates.

Perhaps I just don't understand. I have always lived in a state that had primaries. Every voter that choses to do so goes to the polls and votes. My state, it takes a minute before work or after work to use my voice to vote. For some it is minutes before picking your child up at school or cooking dinner for your family.

I just don't get the 'caucuses'. A few people from different precincts that have a ton of time on their hands go for hours to scream rant and rage as to whom they wish to have win. Loudest voice wins. I don't understand how this is a fair voting process or the will of the people. More than half the state has no voice. It is only the voice of a few. WTF?

Please someone explain to me how this is not voter suppression.

[Cha]

1. Many people do recognize it as "voter suppression"..

that's why some states are changing them.

Washington and Colorado no longer have Caucuses.

Colorado dumps presidential caucuses for primaries

https://thehill.com/homenews/311945-colorado-dumps-presidential-caucuses-for-primaries

[question everything]

21. Also Minnesota

[Cha]

2. Caucuses are outdated and irrational. Replace them with ...

Sep 2, 2019 - Alaska, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Maine, Minnesota, Nebraska, Utah and Washington state have switched from caucus systems to primaries for ...

WaPo.. https://www.washingtonpost.com/

[BlueMTexpat]

3. I simply cannot explain otherwise.

It IS voter suppression.

[guillaumeb]

4. Recommended, and an excellent observation.

It makes no sense at all.

[lambchopp59]

5. Well, they are

genus of flowering plants in the iris family comprising 90 species of perennials growing from corms. Many are cultivated for their flowers appearing in autumn, winter, or spring. The spice saffron is obtained from the stigmas of Crocus sativus, an autumn-blooming species.

Oh, caucus? Nnnevermind.
Can't make sense of those at all.

[NYMinute]

17. Plants from Crocus species have beautiful flowers

Plants from Caucus are loud, angry, frothing at the mouth, entitled, self-important humans.

[Wellstone ruled]

6. I have done Primaries as well as

Precinct Caucasus's. This will be twentieth time around. Did three primaries,there again,that State required the Party to pay for the primary were as the Rethugs were covered by the State Budget set aside. Other wise it has been Caucasus . First off,if you want good government both federal and state, you have to get involved. And I do not recall any screaming or yelling at any Precinct Caucasus I have every attended. Yes a couple times the County Conventions got a bit rowdy,which is expected due to the delegate makeup as well as who the Candidates vying for office.

After all it is only one Saturday during February and the usual time commitment is about three hours. So if you want the Government one wants,get involved. Like I mentioned,this is my 15 th go around for a Presidential Candidate. I would rather stand up and be counted than not having a voice.

[judeling]

10. Yes

Are the primaries a government or party process? That is the first question that needs to be answered.
Then should the party pick the nominee or the general public?
Should active supporters of the party choose or should passive members?
What process should be used to get active members involved in the party decision making.

I became precinct vice-chair at my very first caucus the first time I could vote for president. Because of that until work took me away I was involved in helping to influence party for years my voice counted all the time. If it was a primary I doubt I would have ever become as involved.

Without caucuses I also doubt that we would have had Obama and that Bernie would have the influence he has today.

[Demsrule86]

12. It is voter suppression...not everyone has three hours on a Saturday.

People work, have young kids, take care of family members...accuses are undemocratic and any states that insist on keeping them should go last in 24...as Nevada in 16 clearly showed...caucuses do not measure voters in the states wishes accurately.

[George II]

7. Thankfully, in part because of shenanigans in the past, a number of states have abandoned caucuses..

...this year in favor of primaries. They recognized the undemocratic nature of caucuses.

[sheshe2]

9. The Goddessess answered my prayers.

They must be Democrats.

[Demsrule86]

13. Of course they are ...Republican Goddesses...I don't think so!

[sheshe2]

15. Bwahahahahahahahahahahaha

[PatrickforO]

8. Your post makes me think about the 2016 caucus in NV where many of

the union members who wanted Bernie couldn't participate because they couldn't get off work to do so. The only way we can ensure real democracy is get rid of caucuses, and have a voting system whereby ballots are mailed and people can fill them out and drop them off at a secure polling place to be counted on the night of the election.

In my state, I will get such a ballot for the primary and have days to fill it out. Then, when I want, I can drop it off to a locked ballot drop-off box.

[judeling]

11. What about 2008 where Hillary won

and Obama got the most delegates.

[Demsrule86]

14. Nevada has early voting this time to help with that. At least it is something. I think they should

be done away with.

[NYMinute]

16. Back in the day, when politics was more civilized, it worked

Now, it is sheer bullying by "revolutionaries" holding pitchforks and torches and wearing blinders. They dominate the civilized crowd and the civilized crowd starts to stay away, creating a vicious cycle.

This was experienced over and over so many states did away with their caucuses Good for them.

[sheshe2]

19. Nailed it.

100%.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

18. I have participated in caucuses in two different states

and really liked it. I am very cognizant of the issue about a lot of people not having the time available to do them. But the sense of involvement in a caucus is incredibly strong, much more than in a primary.

Perhaps states that have caucuses can find a way to include more people, hold multiple caucuses, or also do a primary.

Oh, and I've never experienced the screaming, ranting, and rage you seem to think is how they work.

[sheshe2]

20. You never heard it so it never happened.

Okay.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

22. I'm simply saying I haven't experienced that.

I'm sorry if you have.

[sheshe2]

25. My state does primaries. Fair and balanced participation.

You walk in and vote.

Sorry you missed what people have said about the caucus shit show.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

29. Perhaps I should be sorry I've missed a caucus shit show.

Because my experience with them has been good.

And as for the problem with having to spend several hours participating, it's not as though there aren't incredibly long lines at voting places, although admittedly that's less likely to happen in a primary, since far fewer voters participate in a primary than in a general election.

Then, I have the good fortune to live in a state that does excellent early voting, and you can go into any polling place in the county and vote. No need to figure out exactly which location you need to be in.

[question everything]

23. Yes, you liked it

I did too, whe I was involved. But think of hospital workers, or police and fire department workers. Think of a single mother with a sick child at home. Think of someone who has to be out of town. How can we, the party of inclusion support such disenfranchisement?

[sheshe2]

27. Yes.

How can a few voices speak for all. I find this not just ridiculous, I find it a government for the few, not all the people.

Let all the people vote.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

31. I get the problem. Especially as most of my jobs have been shift work.

Which is why every time someone suggests Election Day should be a National Holiday I object strongly. Have lots of early voting. Lots of early voting locations. Do it the way they do it here in NM (or it least in Santa Fe County) where you can walk into any polling place in the county and vote. Your ballot is printed up on the spot, so not bullshit about running out of ballots. Nor do you have to figure out where in the world you have to go to vote.

Because all of the cases you and others have cited that can keep people from participating in a caucus will probably keep them from regular voting if there is only one day to vote.

Better yet, let's go to all mail in voting. Even for primaries.

[question everything]

44. Wanted to add that Iowa in February could be under a snow storm

Interesting that while elections usually take place on a Tuesday, the Iowa caucuses take place on a Monday which, in 2016, did come ahead of a major storm. And I posted here before that ABC’s David Muir told Iowa voters to “caucus early.”

[question everything]

24. Not only that. Two of the early states have caucuses.

This very undemocratic system will determine the nominee.

[highplainsdem]

26. Agree with you about caucuses, sheshe. Very bad way to choose a nominee.

[sheshe2]

30. I am in a smaller town now.

Last town, a little bigger... Huge banners to vote. Vote Vote Vote.

I voted at the library. Down the stairs and into the room. It was a cool place to be among all the books, the history. I signed in. I voted and signed out. No hassle or harassment.

Those that say a caucus is cool and never a discouraging word and the skies are not cloudy all day, they be fibbing. We have had posters here show video and describe what actually happens. It is not pretty and it is not a Democratic process.

Thank you, highplainsdem.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. I do want to repeat that not all caucuses

are like those videos. Really, they aren't.

And it's not as though there has never been voter intimidation at polling places. But voter intimidation is not universal.

[sheshe2]

41. Welp.

I agree not all are like the vids we have seen. However it is an Un-Democratic process to caucus. Let me just throw out a scenario. 250K live in a state. 50K caucus. 50K make the decision for 200K that never had a voice. Not Democratic.

[questionseverything]

28. way harder to rig the count in a caucus

[sheshe2]

33. Really.

First not even half the state has a vote. Then the yelling and screaming of a few select a candidate. Go Vols!!!!!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. I am going to continue to point out that not all caucuses involve yelling and screaming.

You are apparently having a very difficult time accepting this.

[sheshe2]

42. Then don't. nt

[questionseverything]

36. well we would never of had president obama w/o caucuses

that is how he won the nomination

[Zolorp]

32. Primaries measure Breadth of support. Caucuses measure Depth of support.

If I had my way every state would hold both, with 2/3 of delegates being assigned via primaries and 1/3 being assigned via caucuses.

To compete in the GE, we need to have both breadth and depth of support.

[sheshe2]

37. I am going to disagree with you here.

The primary is the Democratic way to vote. One voice. One vote. Every citizen is allowed that vote.

Caucus is the few are given the voice over the people. Their voice, few voices make a vote for a whole state. Not fair balanced or Democratic.

[Zolorp]

38. The Democratic way to vote is for General Elections involving every member of the electorate.

Party politics are completely different and requires naming a candidate who can win a general election. Feel good crap need not apply. If you aren't willing to set aside several hours to support your candidate in a caucus, said candidate does not have deep support, only wide support, and will likely lose a competitive general election.

[question everything]

39. Welcome to DU Zolorp!

Interesting concept.

I still have to wonder how much disenfranchisement might still be there with your proposal.

[Zolorp]

40. Breadth of support is more important than depth, hence 2/3 of delegates.

Depth is still important, thus 1/3 of delegates.

Depth of support measures just how far are supporters willing to go to offer support to a candidate. Can they juggle work schedules, family obligations, the issues life itself puts in our way in order for us to support our candidate.

Measuring depth of support for a candidate gives us a good indication of how effective GOTV efforts will be because it requires that depth of support.

Perhaps a split of 80-20 or 85-15 would be better, but both measures are critical to the General Election.

[judeling]

43. I agree with you 100%

This has always been my preferred choice although I had it 1/3 caucus 1/3 closed primary and 1/3 open primary nationally at the end.
For the caucus allow a preregistered proxy.