Trump's Racist Demagoguery Only Works, Says Sanders, Because Too Many Americans Feel Establishment

[Uncle Joe]

Has 'Failed Them'

(snip)

"What about [divisiveness] is that Trump is a symptom of a widespread problem?" asked Staples. "I mean, how do you address that? The problem exists whether Trump is president or not is what I'm saying."

"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, have failed them. Maybe the New York Times has failed them, too."

Link to tweet

(snip)

Sanders's full comments on offering voters an alternative to Trump and the political establishment were left out of the Times's video:

Now, I think, you raised the question, let me take it a step further. You haven't asked me, I suppose it's somewhere on your list, why I think I'm the strongest candidate to beat Trump... And that is that there is a hard-core support for Trump, which I'm not going to be able to get through. You're right. It is racist. It is sexist. I run into that. It's hard to believe the attitude toward women in some parts of the country. You really would have a hard time to believe it. We're back into the 18th century in some these places. It is homophobic. It is anti-immigrant. Do I think I'm going to win those people over? Nah, no way. But do I think we can get a sliver? I can't tell you how much, 3%, 5%, 8%, of people who voted for Trump because he said, "I am a different type of Republican. I'm not going to cut Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security. I'm going to have trade policies that work for workers. We're not going to be shutting down plants in America."

(snip)


https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/01/17/trumps-racist-demagoguery-only-works-says-sanders-because-too-many-americans-feel

[ehrnst]

1. Did he ask anyone who got coverage under the ACA if the Democratic establishment "has failed them."

How about LGBTQ people and access to restrooms - did the Democratic establishment "fail them" too?

Maybe if one is not a woman, protections that the Democratic "establishment" preserved for their reproductive rights wouldn't really be on their radar.

I have heard someone dismiss the Black Congressional Caucus, the Human Rights Campaign and Planned Parenthood as "the political Establishment" and they sure aren't Republican.

Are they truly to blame for Trump's demogaguery?

But taking that "establishment" earned money and marketing doesn't "fail" a candidate planning to run in an "establishment" Primary, apparently.

.

[Uncle Joe]

12. I suppose it's easy to forget the approximately 87 million Americans

that are uninsured or under-insured, just write them off because incremental progress was made.

Go ahead and write off approximately 30,000 American deaths every year and hundreds of thousands of annual medical related bankruptcies because progress was made.

Write off the fact that African American women are over three times as likely to die in childbirth than white women because progress was made with the ACA.

While you're at it write off any logical reason that a for profit "health" insurance industry with no purpose other than to make blood money and find reasons to deny coverage should even exist.

Why on earth should such a vampire industry with not only no redeeming value but literally costing our nation in blood and treasure be institutionalized by We the People's government?

[ehrnst]

15. So, I'll take that as a no, and you attack multiple straw men for the win.

You have no response to my points, and they clearly got under your skin.

Bold text even!



You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that there was a choice between the ACA and MFA.

There was a choice between the ACA and nothing.

But I guess the lives all those people with pre-existing conditions that got care, and begged the GOP not to repeal it, or they would die aren't really as important as purity.

Ted Kennedy learned that hard way what happens when you make perfect the enemy of the good. Bernie apparently had no interest in learning from Kennedy's experience with "single payer or bust" back in 1971, when Bernie was still in rural Vermont.

Here's some history on Single Payer for you, not that it will make any difference, but I'll put it in bolded text:

We might actually have something much closer to what Canada has now, if Ted Kennedy and the Democrats hadn't walked away from making a deal (because Democrats wanted single payer or nothing) with Nixon in the 70's, who was proposing something to the left of the ACA.

Ted Kennedy has said that not making a deal then was one of the biggest regrets of his political career.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/when-kennedy-nearly-achie_n_269935

[Uncle Joe]

26. You consider the tens of millions of Americans left behind as "straw men"

furthermore people covered by the ACA are still getting screwed that's my bolded point which you couldn't bring yourself to address.

There is a choice for Medicare for All now, the only question is will the American People be satisfied with crumbs when they could have the whole pie?

On the other hand you did post a Monty Python video, so you have that going for you.

[ehrnst]

27. No, your evasions of the topic in florid terms are the straw men.

As you certainly should have learned by now, I don't defend those scarecrows that others set up and attack. I don't take the bait. SMH...

When one is without an actual argument for the lives of those who were saved by the ACA, of which the alternative to was 'nothing' not MFA, one casts about for an accusation that takes the attention away from one's faults in one's arguments.

Do go on. There aren't any facts that will defend your misapprehension that there was a Bernie approved alternative for those saved by the ACA, and that anyone who points that out is someone is somehow celebrating or dismissing the deaths of others.

There I put it in bold, so it's more factual, yes?



I hope that if you got the point of the sketch, you learn something and aren't too offended. But your rather sanguine response indicates otherwise.

[Uncle Joe]

36. You still can't name a logical, economic or moral reason

for the very existence of the for profit "health" insurance industry, that's your evasion.

The life boats on the Titanic were great, saved many lives and no doubt the people were thankful but I believe the overwhelming majority would've preferred the ship not sink.

[ehrnst]

45. Like I said, I don't defend strawmen that others set up and attack.

That seems to be difficult for you to get.

[Uncle Joe]

51. You have no defense. n/t

[ehrnst]

52. "I know you are but what am I?"

Really?

That's where you've landed? The desperation....

Sad.

[Uncle Joe]

56. You're someone that can't defend the indefensible but in your defense,

you don't care...so there's that.

I agree with you ehrnst, it is sad.

[ehrnst]

60. And a futher repeat of the "I know you are, but what am I?" defense.

You know what they say about doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results don't you?

[Uncle Joe]

78. Yes, your fondness for the status quo make that abundantly clear.

[ehrnst]

89. You said "Status quo!" Anything but THAT!!!

Some people just refuse to learn, don't they?

[ArcticFox]

65. There was zero attempt to get MFA (or even a public option)

I clearly recall people calling for each of those things while establishment politicians told us it wasn't politically possible.

It was only ACA or nothing because of the refusal to advocate for these alternatives that would help many many more people.

[ehrnst]

68. You're bringing facts into this....

No fair!!!!

[Demsrule86]

124. It is called reality...we didn't have the votes in the house even and the Senate was worse...I love

how some blame our side for getting the only health care ever gotten by any Democrat (exception being CHIP)...and had the courts not ruled against us, we would have expanded medicaid in all states which would have pretty much covered everyone. Now my fear with MFA is the vote are still not there...public option yes if we get the Senate...but if we refuse to beef up and fix the ACA which Trump jhas attacked repeatedly...we will lose it and then people will have nothing ...now I know some believe that the suffering of the masses will bring about a revolution, but I am not of that opinion..it brings only suffering and death for Americans. Those who champion M4A while disparaging the ACA are playing the GOP's game...they are in court to destroy it...and this gives SCOTUS almost permission to do so.

[brooklynite]

32. Would it have been better for those 87 M if ACA had not passed...

...because there wasn't support for MfA?

I suspect that if we'd achieved a public option, we'd be hearing that it "wasn't enough" as well.

[ehrnst]

55. I know, right? In what universe does that make sense?

[ArcticFox]

70. Sorry?

Are you trying to say ACA was enough? That a public option would be enough?

So we should just write off millions and millions of our fellow Americans so long as we have recently made some little bit of progress?

[ehrnst]

72. No, the point is that the idea that there was some choice between

MFA and ACA isn't actually factual.

It was a choice between the ACA and nothing. Obama had given up on even trying for the ACA, but Pelosi convinced him that she could get it through, and she did.

The idea that MFA was pushed aside for the ACA is fiction.

Is that clearer?

[brooklynite]

73. No body is saying it's "enough"...

No Presidential candidate is saying “it’s enough”.

What they’re saying is that incremental improvements FROM ACA is a policy we can build political support for, as opposed to risking LOSING based on an “MfA or Bust” strategy.

[ehrnst]

123. +1000.

[Demsrule86]

125. +1000 This is why I don't support Sanders at all in the primaries...

[George II]

47. So we should just scrap the ACA and implement a system that no one knows anything about...

...how it will be implemented, how it will be administrated, how it will be funded, or if it even will work? And in the process, we should throw millions of Americans off their current insurance plans that they fought decades to get?

Has anyone ever, EVER, objectively truly quantified the for profit health insurance industry PROFIT? I have, and was immediately excoriated every time I've posted it.

I prefer to deal in reality, not political speculation.

[ehrnst]

74. I prefer results that save people's lives to self-satisfied destruction of the possible

in the name of purity.

The display of naked privilege in that is breathtaking.

[ArcticFox]

62. Right on, bother!

[OilemFirchen]

102. And the Unintentionally Funny award goes to ArcticFox!

Right on, bother!

[sheshe2]

53. +1000

[ismnotwasm]

2. No. It's works because too many Americans are racist.

[ehrnst]

4. And some say that even talking about that is "identity politics."

[ismnotwasm]

8. I know

And I’m done with that argument. Just done.

I am happy to see diverse communities rising up and fighting against racism, especially since the very foundations of our country were based on racism. Populist denial of racism as a powerful force that can be overcome by the right paycheck just disturbs me no end.

[ehrnst]

9. But if Bernie has deemed it so.....

[ismnotwasm]

13. Then that's too bad

That’s not how white supremacy works. That’s never been how it works

I’m actually doing a lot reading about this topic from non-white people. Reading articles, books, some social media. Some aren’t Democrats, although they will vote against Trump. Being Anti-racist is more than an economic philosophy or good intentions

That particular genii is not going back in its bottle and the time for pretending is long past.

I must admit, There are people who do use the economic argument very compellingly, but they tend to be hard core socialists. Bernie Sanders is not a hard core anything.

[ehrnst]

18. He's more 30's trotskyite Socialist than the 60's left Socialists.

Then again, he was pretty isolated from most of the hard, dangerious work of civil rights action and Vietnam war protests once he left college and headed to rural Vermont. He was traveling in Europe with his fiancee during the height of the war protests.

Perhaps he got it from books. It's so much easier when it's all theoretical.

[ismnotwasm]

21. That is actually my impression to be honest

Theoretical as opposed to actual. And when he did seek the “actual” he tended to find poor examples. You know, the Soviet Union and Cuba.

To be fair to Bernie Sanders, it’s what a lot of well meaning but ultimately futile “seekers” do. Build up an ideal, then try to find an example somewhere.

[ehrnst]

29. It's one thing to have beliefs, but quite another to assume that the rest of the world

works that way simply because one wants it to, and thinks it does.

[guillaumeb]

30. As you noted,

racism is foundational to the creation of the US, and to much of the wealth that was created.

Sanders is correct, in my view, in that many Americans are not doing well, were not doing well, and have no real hope of doing well. That reflects on the unrestrained form of capitalism embraced by the US governing class.

[ismnotwasm]

33. Yes

In some ways, many Americans are victims of supply and demand, environment, along with technology and the emergence of a strong global economy. Look at coal and logging.


We are living in the midst historical change, too fast to keep up.

Still, do I want Americans to “do well” at the expense of others? No. So we try to come up with complex trade agreement that multi-nations will actually agree too. This is what President Obama tried to do, and was roundly criticized for it, right here on DU among other places. I am no nationalist.

That’s by the wayside because Republicans DO believe in minimally or no regulation, supply-side Economics. They actually believe this somehow benefits all Americans. It’s the biggest scam ever.

I can think of few economic situations worse than unrestrained capitalism. That’s not what Democrats want. That’s not what they’ve wanted.

[Eliot Rosewater]

79. He is right about economic conditions but so was I when I said it 40 years ago and what matters

now is not to pin it on Democrats when repubs have worked against all progress.

Especially now.

It angers me greatly when he throws dems in with repubs like this and ultimately I believe his goal is very different from mine, I want ANY person with a D including him in the WH...That is what I want, I fear others do not want that.

[guillaumeb]

84. Exactly.

As we both have said, and repeated, and re-iterated, BOTH PARTIES ARE NOT THE SAME.

[HerbChestnut]

11. There are many examples throughout history showing that...

...economic inequality is the root cause of racism, often egged on by those in power to keep those at the bottom fighting amongst themselves. It's been happening in America since the 1600s.

[ismnotwasm]

14. The root cause of racism is white supremacy

[HerbChestnut]

17. Right, which is often a symptom of economic inequality.

Historically, whites (white men, specifically) have held the economic and political power wherever they went in the world. After Europe saw a massive technological boom in the late 1400s and early 1500s, that put them in a position to dominate the globe militarily and economically. Most racial tensions involving white supremacy can be traced back to that time period.

[ismnotwasm]

23. Honey, You are trying to describe colonialism

I get that. It’s complex, as who was doing what and which king was doing who. Had a professor who thought modern day racism could be traced to the defeat of the Spanish Armada.

Understand, however White males, in particular felt is was their god-given, biblically approved right to dominate. White supremacy isn’t a “symptom” it is the primary problem.

[Uncle Joe]

38. Because they were taught as such,

who were the teachers?

[ismnotwasm]

66. The Illuminati?

[Uncle Joe]

69. Who had the power in those days

and benefited the most from racial division?

[ehrnst]

77. Elderly, white, straight millionaire/billionaire men.

They are the primary beneficiaries of an inequitable, capitalistic "flawed system that produces millionaires."

For instance, those that profit from selling their wares, and share part of their take with on Amazon a notorious abuser of their employees for the benefit of the 1%.

Did I answer right?

[Uncle Joe]

80. Well dang, for once we agree ehrnst!

On edit caveat, this post was made before you edited yours'.

Now lets see if we take that one step farther, who are the majority owners of today's corporate media conglomerates?

[ehrnst]

82. White men in the top 1%!!!

And who are the most threatened by the free press when it refuses to submit to their will?

The very same!!!

Bernie Sanders thinks media is unfair, so he created his own


“Enemy of the People”: how Trump makes the media into the opposition


Are Bernie Sanders' attacks on the media fair – or Trumpian?

Both complain about Jeff Bezos bitterly (when WAPO gets under their skin), but continue to make $$$$ off of Amazon...

The universal language, I understand...

[Uncle Joe]

88. That's logical and when a status quo institution becomes dysfunctional

both good and evil forces will try go around or over it.

The only question becomes which way the majority in the middle that still don't realize the dysfunction will break to?

Will they follow a racist, misogynist, xenophobe pathological liar bent on division as in Trump?

Or a leader proposing universal policies that lift all the people as one family regardless of race, gender, religion, sexual orientation etc. etc. as in Bernie?

However at some point a choice must be made because the "middle" under dysfunctional systems; bent on waywardly steering the nation for narrow self-serving purposes becomes increasingly untenable until nations reach an absolute breaking point or implode.

Time is of the essence particularly as now a days with climate change, the world is literally at stake.

[ehrnst]

93. Goodness, a school of red herring just swam through...

along with vicious attacks on several innocent strawmen who did nothing wrong!



Fish aren't biting, Hon. Does this work for you IRL?

[ismnotwasm]

90. Which days which countries what circumstances

You implying a conspiracy over centuries rather than accepting a WRONG cultural standard evolved You do read history, I can’t imagine you don’t.

Once the idea of racial supremacy is there, it transcends income. From political leaders to military forces to the poorest people. White supremacy was an unquestioned standard for a very long time.

[ehrnst]

94. Stop it already with the facts....

and the stranglehold on the actual point!

[Uncle Joe]

97. When in human history have the mega-wealthy and most powerful

never wanted to be mega-wealthy and powerful?

Their primary interests almost always predominate government policies at the expense of the masses and it doesn't even take conspiracy (although that can also happen) so much as just long term narrow self-interest

Divide and conquer is biblical in age and yes I agree with you that once racial supremacy takes hold it becomes a self-fulfilling social dynamic however I believe the best counter to divide and conquer tactics are universal policies.

It's not going to be an overnight panacea by any stretch but I believe in the long haul universal policies treating everyone as equal will bring the people together and curtail the potential rise of future demagogues as in Trump.

[ismnotwasm]

107. You understand the basic premise of monarchies of course

Or the notion of noble blood? Or even the power of spiritual leaders. It took Henry the 8th to take the Catholic Church down

Or, what our driving philosophies contained

What they wanted they took.

This is the human legacy and for all Plato’s “Republic” he believed men were superior than women for instance. That slavery was justified.

This notion of superiority” goes back millennia, it’s not a modern western concept.

I am not arguing against economic change as much as I firmly believe this notion of superiority, in our case white supremacy, is a powerful driver no matter what the economic system.

My city. Seattle. I love my city for all its flaws. My city has 11,000 homeless. You go out there and its almost post apocalyptic. Our safety nets are failing all over. We are out of time. We are too late for far too many.

And for every lost soul who is white, there are even more who are of a different race. disproportionately so.

It’s like the silent epidemic of missing and murdered indigenous women. I’ll see a TV clip about a missing blonde, when we are in the middle of a Native women horror.


Love Bernie Sanders all you want, I have no problem with that. I have a problem with denying or minimizing racism.

[betsuni]

109. +1

[Uncle Joe]

114. No one is born racist,

societies condition them that way and no one is denying or minimizing racism.

Furthermore, societies are dominated by the most powerful and wealthy and make no mistake about it, the majority of them are most concerned about their own narrow personal interests

"Promoting the General Welfare" of the nation is just a nice slogan that goes well with American Flag pins on lapels.

[ehrnst]

46. +10000.

[abqtommy]

35. Let's apportion blame for racism amongst ALL the "races"/ethnic groups. Sure, there's lots of

whites who are racists and there's lots of black folk and brown folk* who are racist too. Racism is
EVERYBODY'S problem and we all have to solve it together.

*note: I've left out "the yellow folk" since a person smarter than I am said that if a person appears to
have yellow skin it's likely that they have jaundice.

[Afromania]

85. No

When we have ALL the levers of power and systemically disenfranchise white people. Then you can come back and say that. Any animosity we have towards just about everybody else is deserved. White folks got the black people are subhuman train rolling and the whole world took it up. We catch flak from people's that have very little to no interaction with black folks other than what they have been taught So thanks but no thanks on that right wing talking point.

[abqtommy]

112. Reality is a "right-wing talking point"? Here in the U.S. we have a particular racist dynamic but

it doesn't hold true in other places around the world. I stand by my previous comment.

[ismnotwasm]

91. Racism is about power.

[ehrnst]

19. Actually, no. Racism is at the root of inequality in the country. See also: Slavery.

[totodeinhere]

3. Yes, and it also works because a lot of voters are racists themselves and would actually

be more likely to support Trump since he too is a racist.

[beastie boy]

5. Seriously? Is this what Beernie thinks? He must be more ignorant on racism in America than I ever

imagined.

Can anyone seriously contend that racist demagoguery, wherever it comes from, will lose its effect as soon as establishment, whatever that means, stops failing Americans?

Was there ever a period in America's history that can remotely corroborate this crazy theory?

[ehrnst]

10. It's best to let him go on. When someone shows you who they are, be thankful.

[Demsrule86]

6. OK this just enrages me and makes me like Sanders...less.

He has my vote in a general.

[ehrnst]

7. +1000.

[Demsrule86]

25. Thank you.

[highplainsdem]

16. BS.

[Me.]

20. Here He Goes Again

why does it escape him that he is the establishment and he has a fat paycheck, good healthcare, 3 million to run his office, a fat pension in waiting and so on and so forth to prove it? And if he thinks the establishment is so bad, he's responsible for it being so too.

[ehrnst]

31. .....

Capitalism has been very, very good to Senator Sanders and his family, and he has not turned his nose up at the rather generous rewards of such that are of chartered jets, multiple homes, trips to the Rome, and selling products on Amazon.

I understand that he has long been anti-charitable giving, out of principle, no matter what the current economic situation is, right now, for so many of the victims of a flawed "system that produces millionaires" he says he is the only hope of, the money just does accumulate.

Terrible problem to have. Especially when someone points it out in public, where politicians do their work, and one gets rather testy.

[SaschaHM]

22. Progressives always wonder why they have issues reaching people of color.

It's this sh*t right here and the way some of y'all lap it up like milk from a saucer because this man happen to say it. If the left wants to co-opt Sander's racial blind spots when it comes to racism in America, fine, enjoy losing presidential primary after primary.

At this rate, he either just doesn't get it, doesn't care, or doesn't want to get it.

[Autumn]

24. He reaches this POC just fine. You don't speak for us all.

[ehrnst]

28. Bernie has those issues, and Bernie doesn't speak for a large group of people.

Louder and more emotional does not equate to more numerous.

I hope that some some people remember that come time to count actual votes.

[Autumn]

34. Bernie speaks for this POC, what you say about Bernie is irrelevant to me. End of conversation.

[ehrnst]

37. Well, Bernie does not speak for me, so what you say about Bernie is irrelevant to me

And many, many others.....and I have reciepts:

https://rewire.news/article/2019/04/30/heres-how-bernie-sanders-missed-the-mark-at-she-the-people-forum/

https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/19/politics/bernie-sanders-black-voters-2020/index.html

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/03/09/bernie-sanders-race-black-voters-2020-225611

But the thing is, I never claimed that Bernie didn't speak for you, so that protest is irrelevant. So there's that.

NOW the conversation can end.

[Uncle Joe]

40. With a flurry of endorsements, Bernie Sanders shores up Nevada support

The Clark County Black Caucus said Thursday that it would throw its support behind Bernie Sanders, the latest in a flurry of Nevada endorsements this week as he seeks to shore up support in a key early contest.

"When you look at his platform and his consistency, over the years he has a long history fighting for civil rights and economic justice," Yvette Williams, chair of the Clark County Black Caucus, tells CBS News.

"We've interviewed him as well, and he has concrete plans in place that will address many of the inequities, inequalities, and injustices of black America," Williams added.

(snip)

The Clark County Black Caucus' endorsement comes as other Nevada groups have rallied to Sanders. On Tuesday, the immigrant rights group Make the Road Action made public its plans to leverage their organizing heft in Nevada for the Sanders campaign. Meanwhile, the Clark County Education Association, Nevada's largest teachers union, announced Monday that it too would back the Vermont senator.

(snip)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/with-a-flurry-of-endorsements-bernie-sanders-shores-up-nevada-support/

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287427502

[ehrnst]

48. You came to Autumn's defense - how chivalrous!

But when someone sends out WOC to try to do damage control on their missteps concerning women and POC, you know it isn't going well with either.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Uncle Joe]

50. So you have no rebuttal to the article that I just posted, just a petty attempt at demeaning,

well at least in your defense, you're consistent...so there's that.

[ehrnst]

54. I rebutted it. You choose to evade that.

I anticipate another strawman being attacked.

Very manly.

[Uncle Joe]

58. Just another petty slight.

[ehrnst]

59. Whatever validates your discomfort.

It seems that using the ignore feature would be beneficial to your sense of well being.

[Uncle Joe]

61. My comfort level is high and

I have never put anyone here at D.U. no matter the differences on ignore.

[ehrnst]

63. Your over the top responses indicate otherwise.

I can understand why you're embarassed to admit it.

Just concerned for your emotional well-being.

You're welcome.



hyperperbolically-cheery response in 3...2...1...

[Uncle Joe]

76. Everything is relative, and I suppose the high road

may seem "over the top" to anyone wanting to stay on the status quo low path regardless of the end destination.

Thanks for your concern.

[ehrnst]

87. That's one way to dismiss facts that don't confirm one's bias....

claiming that it's all 'relative' while accusing the other person of taking "the low road" when they make a point that lands hard against one's own cherished tropes.

Do take care of yourself. High blood pressure is a scourge of men.

[Autumn]

108. No defense of me. I posted nothing about Nevada. Looks like he responded to you and you have

nothing to respond with. So it's on to Cenk Uygur in Texas that has nothing to do with Nevada and whatever else you have there.

[OilemFirchen]

110. "One of my friend's best friends is ME!"

[George II]

44. You can only vote once.

[ehrnst]

49. But what if you REAAALLLLYYYYYY want someone to win?

And you have a REAAALLLLLYYY big twitter following?

Why doesn't that count?????????

[brooklynite]

57. You are, in the data biz, known as a "statistically insignificant sample"

Show us how Bernie is SUCCESSFULLY reaching to the broad reach of African American Democrats, who actually bother to vote.

[Autumn]

64. He SUCCESSFULLY reaches out to young POC and the younger voters.

[brooklynite]

67. ...who don't bother to vote with any reliability.

Take a look at the distribution of African American voters between Biden and Sanders. (Tap on their pictures)

https://projects.economist.com/democratic-primaries-2020/candidate/bernie-sanders/

[Autumn]

75. Then they need to be persuaded to get out and vote. nt.

[ehrnst]

92. Well, I guess that's not been something that certain politicians who

people claim to be "reaching out to them" haven't managed to excite them enough to do.

[ehrnst]

71. But will they turn out and vote?

Because if one can't even get them to the polls, "reaching out" doesn't really have much value in terms of actual results.

What does reaching out even mean, if those being reached out to don't act?

[Eliot Rosewater]

81. One good thing EVERYONE here will GLADLY say VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO

Actually, now is a good time for EVERY Person on this thread to say that!

[ehrnst]

86. I'm talking about those who are not here on DU.

Those "young people and POC" that are supposedly being "activated" to participate in the civil responsibility of voting.

We know that DU participants - for the most part - are fully aware of the value of voting as progressive action.

Unlike some who didn't vote until they first ran for office, when it benefitted them personally to do so.

[Eliot Rosewater]

100. Sure, but I wanna see everyone on this thread say

VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO

[ehrnst]

103. Well, there are some people who aren't online right now...

But here you go:


VOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHO

[Eliot Rosewater]

104. There ya go..

I did this a few times in the past and some folks were annoyed with it...weird.

[ehrnst]

105. Well, they might think it implies that you believe that they would not unless they

complied with your insistence that they reply immediately with those words.

Just a thought.

[Demsrule86]

126. There is about an 8% difference between Biden's support from young voters and Sander's...

He is not doing well enough to win the nomination with 20% overall...notice few articles and posts tell us what the the actual numbers of young Black voters Sanders has on his side...there is a reason-Biden is close. It was posted here recently.

[George II]

39. I know hundreds of people from all economic backgrounds and means, not a single one....

...feels the "establishment" has failed them. In fact, I'd bet most of them don't even think that there IS and "establishment".

[ehrnst]

42. The "burn it all down" crew is usually the privileged white straight cis male

who is far more likely to survive in a wasteland where the 'establishment' of community supported protections from the social darwinism has been eliminated.

Women, POC, LGBTQs, the disabled, children and the elderly pay the biggest price in the reality of actual war and the destruction of institutions.

But KICK ASS, DUDE!!!

[W_HAMILTON]

41. Oh good lord.

[Uncle Joe]

43. I like "My Sweet Lord" better.

[Afromania]

83. Fuck that

Another fucking grab ass apoloscuse for people that hate my ass. You know how ylthose mother fuckers got left behind? By electing the shittiest bastards they could and cold kicking reality in the face 8n favor of dumb shit and lies, but go ahead and keep patting them on the hand.

[Eko]

95. Here I fixed it.

"How did Trump become president?" Sanders said. "I think it speaks to something that I talk about a lot and that is the fact that...tens and tens of millions of Americans are too fucking lazy to participate in their own governing, Republican and Democrat, they would rather sit there and post stupid shit on social media. They dont know history, science, even basic facts on how their government is made up. They would rather watch and talk about the frenzy of the day, they feed on that. And when all you do is eat shit that's all that comes out of you. "

[Uncle Joe]

98. People don't become disenchanted with their governments in a vacuum and

this dates long before the Internet came along.

[Eko]

99. You say disenchanted

I say lazy. And yes they absolutely can become lazy for no other reason than they can do it. As for the internet, before that was TV, also we have to define what "this" is in your statement before we can really have a discussion.

[Uncle Joe]

101. "This"

was disenchantment which leads to apathy.

[Eko]

106. Huh.

Disenchantment : a feeling of disappointment about someone or something you previously respected or admired; disillusionment.

Now you have to show that is the main reason for tens and tens of millions of Americans feel that the political establishment, Republican and Democrat, voting for Trump.

Ill give you a start, that's not true.

https://www.people-press.org/2018/08/09/an-examination-of-the-2016-electorate-based-on-validated-voters/

Also,
Trump voters’ median income exceeded the overall statewide median in all 23 states, sometimes narrowly (as in New Hampshire or Missouri) but sometimes substantially. In Florida, for instance, the median household income for Trump voters was about $70,000, compared with $48,000 for the state as a whole. The differences are usually larger in states with substantial non-white populations, as black and Hispanic voters are overwhelmingly Democratic and tend to have lower incomes. In South Carolina, for example, the median Trump supporter had a household income of $72,000, while the median for Clinton supporters was $39,000.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-mythology-of-trumps-working-class-support/

and then,
Most of the Republican front-runner's votes are from the top end of the income scale

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/04/20/where-donald-trumps-support-really-comes-from

[Uncle Joe]

113. Your link omits 100 million Americans that didn't vote,

that's approximately one out of every two Americans eligible to vote.

About 100 million people couldn’t be bothered to vote this year

Roughly 43 percent of eligible voters didn't bother filling out a ballot this year, according to turnout estimates from the U.S. Elections Project. To look at it another way, the people who could have voted but chose not to vastly outnumbered those who cast a vote for Clinton, Trump or a third-party candidate.

(snip)

Subtract all those people and you've got about 232 million people potentially eligible to cast a vote this fall. But only about 132 million of them did, give or take the one or two million votes that have yet to be officially certified. That means that 100 million people who have the legal right to vote simply decided it wasn't worth the hassle this year.

(snip)

Some of these non-voters may have been discouraged by long lines or policies designed to suppress participation among certain demographic groups, like minority voters. But the research, like a 2014 study from the Government Accountability Office, suggests these policies can at most affect turnout rates by a percentage point or two.

(snip)

It's clear, in other words, that tens of millions of Americans who could vote nevertheless decide not to. If you believe that high participation rates are a sign of a healthy democracy, this is a huge problem. As the Pew Research Center noted earlier this year, our voter turnout is among the lowest in the developed world.

(snip)

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/12/about-100-million-people-couldnt-be-bothered-to-vote-this-year/

[betsuni]

96. Trump made the election about race. White nationalism increased under eight years of

the Obama administration. The right-wing media bubble brainwashed them into believing everything got worse. They thought unemployment went up, taxes went up, regulations for small businesses went up, deficit went up, crime got worse, white people were the actually disadvantaged ones, etc. There's no way these people were worse off in 2016 than during the worst of the Great Recession and bursting of the housing bubble. (Shitty economy caused by Republican trickle down nonsense and untaxing wealthy, deregulating industry, privatization -- ensuring the government makes life worse for people so they can run against the government and blame Democrats for failing Americans.) When Trump became president the economy suddenly was fine, booming even.

His voters imagined economic hardship. They don't want Republican policies but can't vote any other way, and here comes Trump with his populist message who says he hates the Republican establishment too! Here was someone who dispenses with mere dogwhistles and just says racist things out loud! The Republican Party is now the white nationalist party. The establishment has lost control of the monster.

Democrats have nothing to do with it. Republicans politicized evangelicals (automatic base every election!). They lie and cheat. Politics as total war. Not enough just to win, the enjoyment comes in making the enemy suffer. Once you reside in the right-wing bubble, you'll have no idea what Democratic policies are -- of course you'll "feel" that they've "failed" you. You'll believe whatever they tell you on Fox News.

Trump's racist demagoguery only works because both sides? No.

[lunasun]

111. OK Bernie

[David__77]

115. Element of truth, I think.

Certainly alienation helped to consolidate social bases of fascism and racism historically. Does fundamental transformation in governmental and economic relations automatically transform ideas? No. Cultural transformation is also needed.

[Uncle Joe]

116. History has proven you correct David

I do believe that fundamental transformation in governmental and economic relations while certainly not automatic or instantaneous can foster an overall greater social environment conducive to racial healing.

[Gothmog]

120. History is not on the side of a very weak candidate like sanders

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

117. Bernie Sanders' real problem isn't Elizabeth Warren. It's Donald Trump

In the real world, trump would destroy a weak candidate like sanders. It would be really sad to see trump destroy sanders and I agree that sanders chance of being the nominee or being elected is nil

Link to tweet

Nonetheless, Sanders faces serious obstacles to obtaining the Democratic presidential nomination. The gentle treatment he received in 2016 from the media and the Hillary Clinton campaign (which ran few negative television or media ads against him) means that many Democratic voters haven’t yet learned about the distinctly non-progressive positions he has taken on certain issues throughout his senatorial career.....

The chances of Sanders actually becoming president, however, are also close to nil. I say this because in 2016 I got a glimpse of the Republican party’s opposition research book on Sanders, which was so massive it had to be transported on a cart. The Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald, who got to see some of its contents, declared that “it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn [Sanders] apart.”

According to Eichenwald, the book includes damning material such as the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to Texas where it would be dumped in a poor Hispanic community, that he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and that he appeared at a 1985 rally in Nicaragua at which Sandinista supporters chanted “Here, there / the Yankee will die.” And then there’s Sanders’ fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men…

After the Trump campaign and Fox News got through weaponizing this research, the usual conservative charges against Sanders – that his domestic program would cost nearly $100tn over the next decade, that he would ban individual health insurance, send taxes into the stratosphere, and sympathize with terrorists and leftwing regimes – would seem almost benign. The Republican campaign against any Democratic presidential candidate is guaranteed to be ugly, but against Sanders it would be gruesome. The result most likely would be a Democratic wipeout on the scale of Labour’s under Jeremy Corbyn.

That’s why Sanders is the preferred Democratic nominee of Trump and his aides. It explains otherwise puzzling stories such as Trump coming to Sanders’ defense against Warren’s no-female-president claim, saying sexism is “not his deal”. And while living in Washington has made me cynical in some ways, I would not be in the least surprised if conservative dollars are swelling the coffers of Our Revolution, Sanders’ dark-money Super Pac which doesn’t have to disclose its donors.

[Uncle Joe]

118. Trump wants to face Biden not Bernie. n/t

[Gothmog]

119. In the real world, trump wants to run against a very weak candidate like sanders

trump and McCarthy really really want sanders to be the nominee. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states and many downballot candidates will lose https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/why-trump-mccarthy-seem-so-eager-side-bernie-sanders-n1116941

All of this may seem bizarre -- and to a very real extent, it is -- but it's not accidental. There's a GOP strategy unfolding, and it's based on a couple of assumptions.

First, Trump and McCarthy seem to believe Sanders' supporters can be manipulated -- a belief I suspect the Vermonter's backers will find insulting -- and intra-party divisions in Democratic politics can be stoked to ensure Trump's re-election. McCarthy's reference to superdelegates was especially notable: some Sanders supporters are under the mistaken belief that Democratic superdelegates derailed the senator's 2016 candidacy, which is not what happened.

Second, Republican attempts at mischief notwithstanding, the New York Times reports that Donald Trump's political advisers see Bernie Sanders as "their ideal" general-election opponent. To that end, the article added, members of the president's team "have been doing what they can to elevate [the independent senator's] profile and bolster his chances of winning the Iowa caucuses."

Which, naturally, helps explain why the president sided with Sanders last night, and why McCarthy seemed so focused on helping Sanders yesterday afternoon.

It's likely that many Democratic primary and caucus voters will look past these tactics, which is just as well. But as these efforts intensify, at least we'll know the motivation behind them.

Postscript: It's worth emphasizing, in case this isn't obvious, that Team Trump may see Sanders as their "ideal" 2020 foe, but Republicans may very well be wrong. Plenty of Democrats saw Donald Trump as the weakest GOP candidate four years ago, and we now know those assumptions didn't work out especially well.

[TexasTowelie]

122. So Trump withheld $400 million in aid from Vermont

to investigate Levi Sanders? Vermont needed that money for the maple syrup war with Canada.

[Gothmog]

121. trump and Putin would have a very easy time crushing a weak candidate like sanders

There is a ton of great oppo on sanders. In addition, Russia would use the fact that sanders delegates booed John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and other African Americans at the national convention to suppress African American vote. Russia has a ton of really bad behavior by sanders and his delegates available for use to suppress the vote of African Americans.

None of the Democratic candidates are using this oppo because no one really thinks that sanders has a chance of being the nominee. There are tons of video of sanders praising Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, Central American socialists and other enemies of the United States that would make great attack ads. trump has the money to run these ads on a constant loop so that sanders would be lucky not to repeat the results of the 1972 election.

In addition, Russia targeted African American voters last cycle to depress or suppress their vote.

Link to tweet

Without strong African American voter turnout, no Democrat stands a chance. sanders has made Russia's efforts easy in that all Russia has to do is play videos of sanders delegates booing John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and others. There is a ton of anger out there about this stunt by sanders delegates at the National Convention.

I am glad that we will not have to find out. I will support the nominee of the party but I really doubt that sanders will be the nominee. No Democrat has wasted their time going negative on sanders because no one thinks that sanders has a chance of being the nominee.

[Gothmog]

127. trump will destory sanders

Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

They ignored the fact that Sanders had not yet faced a real campaign against him. Clinton was in the delicate position of dealing with a large portion of voters who treated Sanders more like the Messiah than just another candidate. She was playing the long game—attacking Sanders strongly enough to win, but gently enough to avoid alienating his supporters. Given her overwhelming support from communities of color—for example, about 70 percent of African-American voters cast their ballot for her—Clinton had a firewall that would be difficult for Sanders to breach....

So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....

The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I don’t know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.