Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism

[BooScout]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-15/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-women-presidents-iowa-democratic-debate?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true


Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism


Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism
APphoto_Election 2020 Debate
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Elizabeth Warren and Sen. Bernie Sanders talk Tuesday after a Democratic presidential primary debate hosted by
As the Democratic debate in Iowa wrapped Tuesday night, Sen. Elizabeth Warren confronted the extended hand of Sen. Bernie Sanders. He was plainly after one of those no hard feelings, good game handshakes. We’re cool, right?

Warren (D-Mass.) wasn’t cool. It’s hard to have the presence of mind to refuse the near-mandatory displays of collegiality, but she did, folding her hands. Noli me tangere. Touch me not. CNN had cut the sound by this time, but in the pantomime she seemed to be lecturing Sanders.

It’s a commonplace to say that lefties shouldn’t squabble among themselves, even in a primary, when it’s obligatory. But Warren was right to confront Sanders on Tuesday, not least because it showed she’s in fighting shape for November — keen, even-tempered, quick on her feet. And she addressed sexism in the campaign with imagination and subtlety. Remember, Trump’s capacity for sexism was considered one of his strong suits as a candidate in 2016.

Watching the Tuesday night kabuki in slo-mo, you can see that Sanders (I-Vt.), who’s notoriously irritable and suffers from cardiac issues, was riled by whatever Warren said, and by her refusal to be touched. He shook a finger at her. Then again. He seemed intent on freeing her right hand to grab it.

We all know this stock male move: Come on, baby, give me a hug; we’re still friends.

(More) https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-01-15/bernie-sanders-elizabeth-warren-women-presidents-iowa-democratic-debate?_amp=true&__twitter_impression=true

[Cuthbert Allgood]

1. "Refusal to be touched"? He went to shake her hand.

Just like every other person on that stage was doing.

I fully admit that she has every right not to shake someone's hand, but to turn this into "Come on, baby, give me a hug" from Sanders is just not right. Males and females on that stage were shaking each other's hands. That's what he went to do to her.

[wysimdnwyg]

4. Agreed

This was a LONG way from the creepy "Come on, baby, give me a hug" move the article suggests. Once again, we see the media spin something that typically would be brushed over by almost everyone as a nothing-burger into THE story from the debate. In this case, an intimation of misogyny that just isn't there.


(For the record, if Bernie DID tell Warren that "a woman can't win", I am 1000% convinced it was said out of cynicism and an understanding of the backwards beliefs of many in the electorate, rather than a personal belief that women are somehow "less". I would think many here would have to admit to some level of concern not over the worth or ability of any of our female candidates - OK, maybe one or two - but the ability for the American people to collectively get their heads out of their butts and realize that women are at least as good as men when it comes to leadership.)

[Cuthbert Allgood]

16. I think there is just a perceptual disagreement on how this is being said.

I also agree that Bernie DID say something like that. I agree with you that it was likely in the context of how much it sucks that a woman would have so many issues be elected. I want to think that his statements of "I didn't say that" aren't trying to say that Warren is lying but that the media is making it sound like he is some sexist old guy that is saying women shouldn't be president.

But him wanting to shake her hand was not anywhere near the creepy dude thing. Not by a long shot.

[BannonsLiver]

6. I'm not sure you are seeing the big picture

He mansplained when and where she could air her grievance with him. That’s sexism. And it’s not limited to the right. Not by a long shot.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

18. I would never argue that it is limited to the right.

But certainly Sanders has the ability to say he doesn't want to talk about it then, right? He doesn't have to be forced to talk about something when he doesn't want to. Or does he need to talk about it right then because she does want to talk about it?

And given the way the media went after him about reports of what was said, I would tend to agree that talking about it when they were both wearing hot mics was maybe not the best time. But, I support Warren wanting to talk about it then. I also support Sanders not wanting to talk about it then.

But to say that he was being sexist because he wanted to touch her is a claim that is just out of line. He went to shake her hand like everyone else was doing with everyone else. She can refuse. Absolutely. And Sanders didn't make an issue out of her refusing to shake his hand.

[NYMinute]

37. You're still missing the big AND the small picture. nt

[Cuthbert Allgood]

39. I think I agreed with you on a lot of points.

Do you agree with the article in the OP that Sanders was engaged in this:

We all know this stock male move: Come on, baby, give me a hug; we’re still friends.

That's my main problem with the article.

[BooScout]

23. Exactly!

And for the life of me, I can't figure out why so many people want us to shut up about this. Exactly when are we supposed to discuss it? Warren didn't drive the bus into the corner, this started with a scripted narrative from the Sanders campaign that backfired badly & it wasn't a plot by CNN either. Bernie owns this mess.

[yardwork]

2. I agree with this assessment. As a middle aged woman, I've experienced this sexism.

As a woman in the professional world, we're damned if we do and damned if we don't. "Be nice" and people walk all over you. Speak up and the wrath of patriarchy is rained down on our heads. We get called, um, snakes - and a whole lot of other things.

Warren handled this well. Calm, professional, but firm. Bernie had a temper tantrum.

[Demsrule86]

9. Amen sister. I understood how Warren felt. I have been there.

[yardwork]

11. Oh me too.

[Demsrule86]

33. We still have work to do with equal rights...on a bright note...Virginia passed the ER amendment

yesterday.

[Me.]

43. Exactly

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 03:35 PM - Edit history (1)

On a different thread I said this is a tactic many women will recognize

[spooky3]

49. agree nt

[Bummfuzzle]

50. As one Sanders supporter stated, Warren acted like a mom or teacher scolding.

There was nothing of that, yet that was the descriptor used. Mom or teacher. That reminds me of what Sanders thinks of teachers, btw. So predictable.

Whereas the evidence of the video shows Warren being professional. She handled it in that manner from the start. When asked by media about the script, a simple, disappointed in Sanders trashing her. He said it, with no more in the statement when asked about the comment. Asking supporters to deescalate. Then in the debate staying away from calling Sanders a liar.

Warren only stood up for herself after the debate because it was important she call him out. And even that she did her accusation gently by stating "I believe" you called me a liar leaving room for her own misinterpretation.

But Sanders was his true to form, not able to work with other, going into the defensive the huffing off the stage.

[LeftTurn3623]

3. This is just great

the progressive wing of the party is shooting itself in the foot. The winner is Joe Biden. He has to be loving this and I do not blame him

[BooScout]

12. Soooo...

Should we just be quiet and take it? Maybe we just need to learn to smile more?

[Demsrule86]

32. +1000

[LeftTurn3623]

36. Take what?

Who says I believe her anymore than I believe Bernie? You weren't there & I wasn't there.

Bernie wanted her to run in 2016 & when she didn't he did. Doesn't seem like someone who does not think a women can win would do.

And its not like Warren doesn't play politics. After accusing Pete of private wine cellar fund raising when she herself has private fund raising money she is using.

All I know is he denied it on stage and she did not refute it on stage

[NYMinute]

38. Ohhh the old "he said she said" defense

Guess who uses that defense. Think!

[Wabbajack_]

51. So you

Preclude the possibility that Sanders is telling the truth?

[NYMinute]

58. Absolutely

History is a great guide to future behavior.

[Eliot Rosewater]

60. WHAT? Did BERNIE actually say he ONLY ran then because she didnt?

[TexasTowelie]

52. Did you see The Simpsons a couple weeks ago?

Lisa had to get braces and they put in the top braces at first. The result was that she had a permanent smile and she became the most popular student at the school. She became so emboldened that she ran for class president with a lofty platform.

A week or so later, she returned to the orthodontist and had the lower braces put in. The result was that she had a permanent scowl. When it came time for the debate, she tele-conferenced her appearance and the video was tampered with so that she had a permanent smile. Unfortunately, the video feed got screwed up and the students realized that the video was altered. She ended up losing the election to the idiot student she was running against.

Your earlier comment triggered that memory.

[The Valley Below]

27. I think Joe Biden will show us all that the "progressive wing of the party"

consists of liberals like himself who will make real progress happen as president.

[aikoaiko]

5. Wow. Talk about spin.

He offered his hand to shake -- she didn't reciprocate.

Now there is audio and we know what was said.

[lark]

7. I didn't see anything creepy in what Bernie did, but saw her standing up for herself.

I was proud of her. She is standing up for I told the truth and am not going to back down like a "good little woman".

[Pachamama]

8. +1000000

Same here....I gained a lot of respect for how she handled herself. She has class.

Sanders confirmed what I have believed about him for a long time.

[Demsrule86]

10. Exactly. warren is now my second choice.

[Pachamama]

13. Same here...Just switched to Joe Biden as my candidate of preference since Kamala Harris dropped out

I had been a Harris supporter from the beginning. I want a woman on the ticket and felt she was the best. I had hoped even for a Harris/Biden ticket or a Biden/Harris ticket - still am.

But for my second choice as a candidate, especially from who is left, I like Elizabeth Warren, always have. After this, she is my second choice after Biden/Harris and even for Biden to choose as a VP, although I still think Biden needs a Black Woman as his running mate. No matter what, Elizabeth Warren is a great Senator and advocate in the Senate and maybe in the future a nominee to take the place of RBS when President Biden makes a nomination to the Senate.

[Demsrule86]

31. Welcome aboard...I think Harris has a good shot at the VP slot...despite a dust up or two,

they like each other and Harris is trustworthy.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

19. I can agree with that statement.

I can also agree that Sanders stood up for himself in not wanting to talk about it in "public." They both did fine, in my assessment. I don't know how all this comes out in the wash, but that exchange wasn't horrible.

[aikoaiko]

25. I mostly agree.

I think its always a bad idea to say anything sensitive when you have potentially hot mic on.

[NYMinute]

40. It was not what he said but how he said it and his body language

said it all.

Kudos to Senator Warren - she was presidential.

[melman]

14. This is pathetic

One of the most ridiculous op-eds I have ever seen. I can't believe the LA Times would even run this.

[NYMinute]

41. I have seen far more ridiculous op-eds from the Sanders devotees

Some leave me in tears from laughing hysterically at the audacious conclusions in them which defy logic.

[TexasTowelie]

53. That's interesting.

Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 06:35 PM - Edit history (1)

After the previous debate, I recall several Sanders supporters pump up the Frank Luntz focus group for the LA Times which indicated that Bernie won the debate when nearly every other media outlet said otherwise.

[melman]

54. Not sure what your point is here

But I can tell you this much. There's no way in hell you ever saw me citing Frank Luntz.


If you have proof to the contrary please feel free to post it.

[TexasTowelie]

59. I did not say that you cited Frank Luntz.

The point that I was making was when an opinion piece favorable to Bernie appeared in the LA Times, there was a rush by some Bernie supporters to jump on the bandwagon. Now that an opinion piece by the LA Times came out that was critical of Bernie the opinion is dismissed.

It reminds of the quote about fashion on Project Runway:

[melman]

61. This makes no sense whatsoever

Luntz did a focus group for the LA Times and some other people liked the results..


...so that means I can't think this op-ed is crap?

[TexasTowelie]

62. I don't believe I can say anything else to make the point more clear.

You are of course welcome to have your opinion of the op-ed. Have a nice day.

[bluedye33139]

17. I don't like seeing them fight, but she is no pushover.

[Gothmog]

20. I believe Warren's version of the facts

[MineralMan]

21. Yes, exactly. And Sanders' essential misogyny was exposed.

Boom!

[Hoyt]

22. It's a sad display by two people vying to lead this country. Christ, how would they handle

global issues?

[BannonsLiver]

24. Bothsiderisms don't apply in this case.

Try to look beyond unconditional support for Sanders.

[aikoaiko]

26. And try to look beyond misplaced Bernie hatred.

[duforsure]

28. I believe Senator Warren over Bernie

And thought her response to him showed she wasn't taking any crap off him after he lied. Good for her.

[George II]

29. We've seen similar incidents like that over the last several years. This one happened....

..on national television, and people want to forget it? Good to see Warren address it immediately.

And even after he said they'll talk about it later and she said "alright", he STILL had to get his snarly dig in and stomp away (after being equally rude to poor Tom Steyer)

Forgotten, however, is that ill-conceived script that first was written by a few rogues, then it came out that it was used in more than one state, then they admitted it was from the campaign but "poorly worded".

Folks, the fish rots from the head.

[BooScout]

34. I felt bad for Steyer...

He looked like a puppy that had just been kicked.

[bobbieinok]

30. You should read entire linked article. Very good!!

[mcar]

35. But somehow she's to blame

[BooScout]

44. And we should shut up talking about it...

...that's the overwhelming message I'm getting. We shouldn't be discussing it. Let's just pretend it never happened.

I get that Trump is the bogeyman...but I'll be damned if some man says he doesn't think a woman can't win in 2020 and then call the woman a liar about him ever saying it to begin with....and she then gets blamed for standing up for herself.

It's always the woman's fault, and we should sit down and stfu to keep the narrative nice and tidy.

[mcar]

45. You got that right!

I get that Trump is the bogeyman...but I'll be damned if some man says he doesn't think a woman can't win in 2020 and then call the woman a liar about him ever saying it to begin with....and she then gets blamed for standing up for herself.

[TwilightZone]

63. Some seem a lot more upset that she responded than they are...

with the possibility that Sanders said it and then basically called her a liar.

[NurseJackie]

42. It was disgusting.

We all know this stock male move: Come on, baby, give me a hug; we’re still friends.

It was disgusting.

Elizabeth Warren brushed off Bernie Sanders and taught a master class in handling sexism

And the finger-wagging was just rude as fuck. She doesn't need to put up with shit like that!

[oasis]

47. E.W. stood her ground. She gained a ton of respect from me, and

I'm sure, many other true Democrats.

[redstatebluegirl]

48. I like how she handled him.

[Cha]

55. Wow.. Now we know what Elizabeth said..

Watching the Tuesday night kabuki in slo-mo, you can see that Sanders (I-Vt.), who’s notoriously irritable and suffers from cardiac issues, was riled by whatever Warren said, and by her refusal to be touched. He shook a finger at her. Then again. He seemed intent on freeing her right hand to grab it.

Mahalo for this, Boo

[Bummfuzzle]

56. Pod Save America is stating they do not think any of Warren people leaked it.

I really enjoy this Podcast. 4 guys from Obama administration. I listen to them often. I am listening to the pod after election. Their conversation is that no way Warren would have leaked this. She would not have wanted this conversation. They are saying it was probably already out there, known and reporters finally got like four sources that confirmed.

Interesting view point. You all might want to check this podcast out.